May 13, 2010
A Crime to be Chassidish?

Shidduchim SOS: All too often my parents are told that the bochur does not want to go out because I am "too chassidish." Saying Chitas is a crime?

Dear Mrs. Junik,

Maybe you can help me understand this oxymoron. I am a single chassidishe girl looking to get married. However, every so often, when an interesting suggestion is brought up, the shadchan comes back with the same answer: "He doesn't want to go out with her."

"Why?" my parents ask.

"Because he thinks she's too chassidish."

So, my question to you is - is it a crime to be chassidish? Is it a crime to still be saying chitas when you're older than 25? Is it a crime to attend farbrengens every so often? Is it a crime for a Lubavitcher girl to be connected to the Rebbe and try to follow in his ways?

I still have quite a few friends not married- and most of them because they are just ‘too chassidish', and unfortunately, some are less chassidish these days because, let's just say, ‘the boys market is not looking for chassidish."

So tell me, Mrs. Junik, what is with (some) bochurim these days and how do we ‘fix' this picture before it chas v'eshalom gets worse?

Mrs. Sara Junik's response:

The difficulty you find yourself in, and many others too I am sure, is a problem of definition. The word "chassidish" has somehow lost its original meaning. This is by no means a unique case; other words in the English language have suffered a like fate. Take the word "awful" which today is mostly used to mean "exceptionally bad or displeasing" but it used to mean " deserving of awe" (14th to 19th century usage). Another example is the word "sophisticated" its meaning is now "having worldly knowledge, refinement and savoir-faire" but it used to mean "corrupted" (17th century). Although the word chassidish is not an English word it has suffered a similar fate.

The actions and Yiras Shamayim once believed necessary to be considered chassidish have now been so diluted as to be unrecognizable. Our standards have lowered themselves so greatly that they cannot be considered standards. This of course is a different discussion for another time and place.
What matters to you is that when you describe yourself you should be specific in your description of yourself. Describe what you do, don't use a general label. Don't say you are chassidish but describe what makes you chassidish. Explain that you say Chitas every day, and attend farbrengens etc. Describe what you are looking for in a bocher, that he should not touch his beard, daven with a minyan, have a mashpia … whatever it is that is important to you.

I have personally seen how a girl whose profile says she is chassidish, wears pants "on occasion" and listens to goyshe music, others don't wear stockings, for example. If that what is considered chassidish today, then of course you are "too chassidish"!

If you detail what you are looking for, you will be offered something closer to what you want. If you describe yourself in more specific terms, the offers you will get will be closer to what you are looking for.

Obviously you have been redt to bochurim that were not interested in what you can offer. Make sure you get redt to the right person by describing yourself accurately and describing what you are looking for accurately. Do this in your profile, resume, talking to friends, shadchonim etc. Tell your parents too. Often, too often, parents don't look for the right match, because they have an unrealistic or a different view of what their children are or need. There are plenty of truly chassidishe bochrim out there and it is definitely not a crime to be chassidish, but it is a crime how the word is being used.

The Rebbe says one should look for a shidduch like one looks for a lost object. One would surely not describe a lost watch by just saying that it is a woman's watch. Rather one would say it is gold colored and has a gold face with small stones in the place of the numbers, it is from such and such a company and it has a scratched back.

In the same way be more specific about your level of frumkeit and what you expect of a future spouse.

May you find your zivug speedily and may we hear good news from all those who are looking.

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Opinions and Comments
Mr Obvious
That was the most obvious and stupid answer ever to that question! Like the girl couldn't have come up with that answer by herself? I think the girl's question was more rhetorical than asking for Mrs Junik's advice. She was asking a question about the general downward spiral that " Chasidishkeit" has experienced over the past decade or so, and also about what does it mean to be called by that moniker in this day and age. I would like to know what are Mrs Junik's qualifications that give her the right to be dispensing advice to people going through the most crucial time period in their lives.
(5/13/2010 3:07:53 PM)
there is nothing wrong with you. the shadchanim are setting you up with the wrong people.
P.S i am looking for a mashpia are you available?
(5/13/2010 3:08:40 PM)
well answered!
the title does not give the same message as the article - in other words the title says that there is a major problem with people not wanting "chasidish", but the article, in the answer explains that this is NOT a problem, s/he just has to be more specific with what s/he is looking for .
(5/13/2010 3:19:02 PM)
This is a wonderful answer but it doesnt seem to answer the question that was asked.
(5/13/2010 3:21:01 PM)
nice answer there! I liked it!
(5/13/2010 3:24:21 PM)
"the bochur'
I guess I'm one of those Bochurim who wouldn't go out with a girl that is "too Chassidish" so let me explain my perspective and hopefully that will be of some help to you.

I would assume that the reason why you are not going out with guys who wanna marry a very chassidish girl is because you may be a little more relaxed. you may dress a bit modern, you dont necessarily wanna go on shlichus, some of your close friends are not very chassidsh.....

so your name gets brought up to guys on the more modern side, the boys side speaks to a couple friends and they start hearing that you are a really chassidish girl, you say chitas, you go to shiurim, you go on mivtzoyim...

now most guys have no problem with a girl that says chitas in fact most would think that it's great for their spouse and future mother of their children to be spiritually in tune - even if she's a little more Frum then he is right now - but the thing is we dont want a mashpia, if we watch movies now, we wanna be able to watch movies in our house, if we are a little lenient on chalav Yisroel we want to be able to eat that at home,,, you see it's not about the chassidish things you do, it's about us wanting to continue doing the "not chassidish" things we do, we want to be comfortable in our own home.

Your trouble (I assume) is a problem with the way you're marketed. on the one hand you give off a modern impression and on the other hand you come across as very chassidish.

crude as it may sound, shidduchim is all about how you market yourself, it's one big P.R. game Guys are either selling themselves as the learning 770 bochur who's going on Shlichus or the working guy who is frum but trims his beard or the gezha guy who has a lot of family money etc...

with girls it's the same deal, - yes every one of you are multiple dimensional complicated deep people but unfortunately you gotta pick one image, one persona that you put out there and you gotta stick with it, otherwise you send out mixed messages and it just causes confusion for everyone else and frustration for you.

I really hope this helps and I wish you only the best of luck.
(5/13/2010 3:28:33 PM)
not a good responce
(5/13/2010 3:31:51 PM)
#6 - that was great....
I really appreciate someone who can say it the way it is... Kudos
(5/13/2010 3:57:26 PM)
to 6
Its sad how the whole shidduch seen is one big game, maybe I'll find my own shidduch. It makes me sick
(5/13/2010 3:57:34 PM)
Rabbi Pinchos Woolstone
I pray that this young lady finds her Beshert very soon.
We would like to send her a wedding gift at the appropriate time
(5/13/2010 4:02:40 PM)
attention #6
u wanna b lenient with chalav yisrael? well happy looking forward to kids with "farshtopteh kep"
(5/13/2010 4:11:52 PM)
Chassidish or ?
Could it be that you are being described more as "chnyucked" instead of "Chassidish"?
(5/13/2010 4:13:42 PM)
a bochur
I am looking for a girl that says chitas.
Maybe will meet.
You never everl know.
(5/13/2010 4:16:32 PM)
To 9
Its called human nature. When you tell people you are x they are going to think x as they define x.

The term Chasidish is very loose. There is a difference between a real frum, true person with yiras shomayim and someone in the clouds. Many people associative chasidish with the latter.
(5/13/2010 4:18:24 PM)
since when?
since when did saying chitas and going to farbrengens make someone chassidish??? plenty of fry people go to farbrengens and say some chitas, and i know plenty of people who say chitas and go to farbrengens and have boyfriends...the word chassidish means NOTHING!
(5/13/2010 4:20:22 PM)
good answer
the bochurs answer makes sense
(5/13/2010 4:20:56 PM)
cholov yisroe???l!!
oi na lanu meh hayah lanu!!!
Meilah the beard, you gotta look like a stud. Meilah the movies, you have to find out how to look like a stud.
But cholov akum? From where does a yetzer hara for such a thing arise? I love you like a brother, MR. #6, but, like, what is going on?????!
May Hashem bless you with a fine shidduch and many chidlren and grandchildren with which to eat many pints of cholov yisroel Leben.
(5/13/2010 4:22:44 PM)
these shidduch blogs make my day...
I frequently get set up with GUYS who are way too "chassidish" for me. I agree with's all about wanting to be comfortable in the home you eventually set up for yourself. For example, I'm the type of gal who is quite frum (strict about kashrus, tznius etc) that also grew up watching TV and listening to all kinds of music and I plan on continuing my life that way. The fact that I keep getting set up on dates with bochurim who have never even seen a TV set is somewhat frustrating. Of course, TV is not at all important- it's just the more modern outlook that im trying to stress. I'm sure there are many others in a similar situation.

However, I don't think the term "chassidish" should ever be seen in chas v'sholom a negative light. We should all strive to be saying chitas and going to farbrengens, the simple fact is, not all of us are holding on that level. We all grew up differently, being exposed to different things, and wanting different things out of life. Perhaps we should stop saying "that guy or gal is too chassidish for me", which may chas v'sholom give chassidishkeit a negative connotation, but instead to say "that guy or gal is holding on a completely different level than i am and we're simply not compatible. "

bottom line...those of us who are searching should all merit to find our zivug in the right time. I hope to find my modern influenced, highly educated, yet frum-minded bochur sometime very soon :)
(5/13/2010 4:34:04 PM)
To #6
So it's all about marketing? What happens the product is not as advertised? This aint Costco....getting a refund won't be so easy...
(5/13/2010 4:37:40 PM)
to #6
I'm impressed...Great vocabulary and you got straight to the point.
(5/13/2010 4:51:57 PM)
to #6
its unfortunate that the "not chassidish" things you do are only considered "not chassidish" as a lubavitcher chassid eating chalav stam is just like "TREIF" the only heter that was given for it was by Rav moshe feinstien to people who would other wise not have what to eat, THEY AND ONLY THEY, did he say can eat it, but unfortunately it was totally taken out of context by the misnagdim, and those that call themselves lubavitchers as well. it is a sin to bear the Rebbe's name and shamelessly eat what he absolutely did not agree with! But of course not to judge i hope you meant by "if we are a little lenient on chalav Yisroel" its only on the hechsher on chalav Yisroel products!
(5/13/2010 5:00:33 PM)
(5/13/2010 5:01:28 PM)
(5/13/2010 5:02:08 PM)
hey, i have the opposite problem, people define me as too "chilled"
maybe i should write my own article
(5/13/2010 5:07:01 PM)
To # 1, and my own opinion :)
Sometimes it seems to me that people come on these comment threads just to vent and blare out their skepticism. Anyone with the least bit of sense can see that Mrs. Junik clearly sounds like someone who is well in tune with the trends of todays dating scene. She has clearly addressed the questioner's main issue, as well as given her practical viable down-to-earth, advice that she could put to good use to improve her current situation. After all, if the questioner didn't want her opinion, she wouldn't have asked in the first place. Regarding the authors final question: There isn't an answer to the question "what is it with some guys these days". The author is clearly venting her feelings, and Mrs. Junik with clear and succinct language has given her truly good advice. Stop being negative and trust in G-d a little. In my opinion the problem with Bochurim these days is their lack of balance between belief in self and Bitchon and trust in Hashem, but that is for a whole nother venting session :).As a 24 year old single guy on the dating scene today I can relate to the current challenges in todays Lubavitch dating scene, and I truly feel for the author of this post. May you find what is good for you in the near future. THE MOST IMPORTSNT THING is to continue placing your total and complete faith in Hashem. He is our Tatty and truly wants the best for us. He loves every single one of us to no end and wants us to be happy. We must do our part as well. If you do this I can promise you that everything will turn out good in the end. Rejoice in the good things you have in your life. Sometimes if we count our blessings we will realize that Hashem has truly blessed us already. May you soon be together with the other half of your soul!Keep Smiling.
(5/13/2010 5:09:46 PM)
too chasisidish
the problem is that many define "chasidish" means saying chitas..farbing..panim...ohel...hiskashris...but then your a snob!! horrible midos!!! feel holier than your fellow jew!! so guess what? your REALY NOT chasidish! just a CHNUK with a bunch of lip service! become a better person and maybe you will become chasidish...for REAL!
(5/13/2010 5:27:50 PM)
identity crisis
To the author:

Perhaps the problem here is that people today solely identify themselves by "chassidish' or "modern".

Are you just "chassidish"??? Is that all?

what else are you?
do you like to have a good time?
do you enjoy spending time with your family?
do you like to do community work?
what other definitions can you give yourself?

"Being Chassidish" is not enough to tell about yourself.
If that's your only claim to fame & identity then you are a person who is living in a bubble & lacks the ability to bridge normal life with chassidishkeit.

Take a good look into yourself and see who you are.
take off the glasses that only see things through a "chassidish" or "not chassidish" lens. Be open to who you really are as a person and what you have to offer to the people around you.
Because now you are just masked by a false identity as "chassidish"

First figure yourself out, then you'll have an easier time describing yourself to others....not just as chassidish!
(5/13/2010 5:29:04 PM)
oi na lanu meh hayah lanu!!!
Meilah the beard, you gotta look like a stud. Meilah the movies, you have to find out how to look like a stud.
But cholov akum? From where does a yetzer hara for such a thing arise? I love you like a brother, MR. #6, but, like, "what is going on?????!
May Hashem bless you with a fine shidduch and many chidlren and grandchildren with which to eat many pints of cholov yisroel Leben."
funniest comment i have ever seen in my life it makes me laugh
but i agree
(5/13/2010 5:34:49 PM)
the problem is the shadchan
Religious values should not even be brought up to a shadchan. If someone is bashert for another, it does not matter if they are on the same level of observance, as long as they agree on basics, like taharas hamishpacha.
(5/13/2010 5:36:15 PM)
agree with 17!!
#6 never learnt the basic difference between cholov yisroel and cholov akum!! he just knows that the snags eat it so why should he be more stringent than them?? if he brazenly writes that he is lenient in cholov yisroel and is ready to degrade it... im sure he is lenient with....
(5/13/2010 5:38:28 PM)
Avrohom Yitzchok
Lady, if someone doesnt want to marry you because you are "too chassidish" then you sure dont want to marry them. Picture bringing up your kids.
You want them to go to shul, he thinks its to chassidish.
You want them to learn chitas, he thinks its too chassidish
You want them not to learn English...
You get the point!
Move on and may the aibeshter bless you that you should marry a guy who appreciates you for you chitas learning abilities!
(5/13/2010 5:39:45 PM)
well i'm chasidish and have no interest in a chasidisher girl. whats wrong with that?
(5/13/2010 5:42:47 PM)
love this stuff
In my personal proffesional opinion, we aren't seeing the entire picture here. I don't believe that a boy will reject a girl soely on the belief that she is too chasidish. Generally, when a boy looks into a shidduch, he does extensive research into all aspects of the shiduch process i.e. looks, background, temperment, and chasidishkeit. Now, unless the girl is really hardcore chasidish, boys will not have a problem if she days chitas or goes to farbrengins. So the way I see it, the idea that a girl is too chasidish is only an excuse and is really based on a number of other factors.
Now if this girl wants advice, I would try and look for boys that are within my realm of chasidishkeit. She should clearly define what you are looking for, daven, and hope for the best...
And seriously everyone chill out... lifes not so bad :)
(5/13/2010 5:55:18 PM)
"the bochur" from #6
I'm just trying to help so if you disagree with me please do so respectfully.

P.S. It happens to be that I personally only eat chalav Yisroel, I was just trying to bring an example of things guys may do right now even though they know it may be wrong.
(5/13/2010 5:57:33 PM)
all posts
Everything is in Hashem's hands, as our Rebbe told me
the only thing that we can control (in our hands) is our learning and mitzvahs. We do our part and let Hashem worrry about His part. " direct quote from our Rebbe"
(5/13/2010 5:59:36 PM)
Go to Shain's Shul
and ask Sideny for a brocho
(5/13/2010 6:01:54 PM)
A married guy
I Can really relate to #6!

(5/13/2010 6:09:14 PM)
Be your own destiny
Bottom line is no one will make your shidduch for you you gotta do it yourself since no one knows what you're looking for as well as you do.

I think Mrs Junik gave a nice speech there but had nothing to do with the question posed but the Bochur was straight to the point.

Throughout your life you have been told and taught by your teachers that the more chassidish that you are the better shidduch you will get. It sounds like you have reached the age where you are realizing that the reality is not all that you have been promised. Hopefully, this recognition and maturity will inspire you to become who and what you truly believe is who you are. Then, given the right circumstances you will meet someone who you will share the same values.
(5/13/2010 6:11:26 PM)
It's not a crime, It's just not for you!
If an answer comes back that "you are too Chassidish" then obviously the Bochur is just not for you! No crime here, just a simple case of a mismatch! I don't understand why such a "problem" has been brought up...
(5/13/2010 6:29:56 PM)
hey im considered chasidish and i dont even do chitas or go to a farbrengens.....rather its the people i hang around that make this reflection.
(5/13/2010 6:35:49 PM)
How about the fact that the world has changed, people have changed, Lubavitch has changed....

and maybe that includes people being more complex, or maybe some people want to call it confused. Whatever.....
... Say what you want., but either way.............

God can do whatever he'd like, and make whatever shidduchim whenever. So I respectfully ask, please do.
(Fine, fine, I admit it.....I yell it too)

All we can do is our best.
And for some reason I think most people are doing that already.

(5/13/2010 6:37:07 PM)
Re Cholov Akum..
You may call this naive, but as a young bochur - i knew that Cholov Akum was "taboo" in Lubavitch, AND as a previous commenter wrote, it's metamtem ha'moach..
but I didn't know more.

In Semicha, our esteemed Rosh-Semicha gave a practical HALACHA example, that quite clearly demonstrates that for us (and anyone else who consumes only Cholov Yisroel) - it is CLEARLY listed in the severe category of "Shaar Issurim", and thus must be botel b'shishim..

(he had a case where a woman asked him, she had tea leaves to add flavor to a cake, which she later found milk ingredient in that particular tea - {and the hashgocha confirmed that it was Cholov Akum}, and it was dependent on if there was 60 against it..)

I don't wish to focus on negativity, as we're in the week of Mattan Torah, and today is "va'yichan, k'ish echod b'lev echod), but apparently - we'd be in a much different plateau were we all to be shomer this b'tachlis hahiddur..

(Truly, it is a sham how we've fallen so low - where's the niflinu? How are we better than the other modern circles which eat such!? I suffice with that..) We should end off with good, and Nu, M'darf shoyn di Geulah!
(5/13/2010 7:13:59 PM)
the real issue is lubavitch seminaries! A girl goes away from her home for the first time and these seminaries just throw chassidishkiet down their throats and the girls kind od just go with the flow and act like (chassidish) weirdos which entails not caring about the way you look and trying to prove that girl can be chassidish like bochrim. The only thing a girl needs to learn is how to run a frum household dont worry about anything else guys will take care of the rest and do yourself a favor save your parents 20 thousand dollars and dont waste your time in seminary getting brainwashed
(5/13/2010 7:26:32 PM)
Why is there a problom with saying chitas every lubav should and if you cant get mareid to somone that says it
(5/13/2010 7:37:46 PM)
the shadchan is not right
he sholud say "he is not enough chasidish for her".
shadchans dont know how to talk!!!!!!!!!
(5/13/2010 7:52:58 PM)
the REAL answer to your question
I'm married to a chassidish girl believe me I started out saying 3 prakin rambam but the she became super-chassidish so she made me start saying 6 prakim........... Stam maybe that's what guys are afraid of that ull cramp their style. Just put it out the word out that ur only middle chassidish. Good luck
(5/13/2010 8:31:01 PM)
Re:Re: Cholov Acum
learning smicha in motown
"(he had a case where a woman asked him, she had tea leaves to add flavor to a cake, which she later found milk ingredient in that particular tea - {and the hashgocha confirmed that it was Cholov Akum}, and it was dependent on if there was 60 against it..) "
very interesting it depends whether or not theres a hefsed meruba if you say chanan by lach B'lach if you'll need 60 against the whole tea or just the milk ingrediant in the tea. Anyways theres an alter rebbe that says anything used as an ingreidiant isnt butul.
side point: cooked parev in kosher dairy pot is nat bar nat and can be eaten if accidently mixed w/ meat but in a cholov stam pot its osser completly.
(5/13/2010 9:00:03 PM)
#6 and the pr stunt
I am very sorry to have to break it to you but being "on the market" is NOT a pr stunt!!!this is one of the big problems with the shidduch scene today.Stop putting on a show and just be yourself you dont "have"to open doors for people,you dont "have"to try to be extra attentive.Let the person you are come out and if its is your soulmate it is a soul connecting,not buying a product.It really angers me when i hear things like this going on.If someone is open and ready for marriage and have a positive outlook on having a healthy relationship you wouldn't have to talk about PR.
(5/13/2010 9:01:40 PM)
To#27 and #38 - Well said
Having lived out of Crown Heights for a number of years - in Jerusalem - and loving it, I can tell you that there is much more to life than what you see with your myopic vision from your perch in CH.

I loved living in CH, but there is so much more to life than your view of being "Chassidish". What are you going to give the world? What benefit will you give your spouse, your children, your community, your city, and the world around you? Who are you? Are you a chitas woman or are you a vibrant and contributing part of society....

When you figure that out, you'll do much better at finding someone who matches you...
(5/13/2010 9:15:47 PM)
to #9
(5/13/2010 9:22:15 PM)
every farbrengen the rebbe would mention to learn chitas
& get other people to learn
(5/13/2010 9:45:40 PM)
to number 43
I completely disagree with you, I am a seminary girl currently typing this from Israel and I think that this year is a year that every girl must have the privilege to experience. Many of us have never spent a year away from home and its necessary to spend this year away from home to learn how to live away from the comforts of home. It is a jelling year that helps us come into the mothers that we will iyH become. Any girl that will pass up this opportunity is doing a disservice to herself and future family,

About money, there are thousands of dollars in grants available to pay the cost. Some girls are here for less than they payed in high school.
(5/13/2010 10:05:48 PM)
To #17
cholov yisroe???l!!
oi na lanu meh hayah lanu!!!
Meilah the beard, you gotta look like a stud. Meilah the movies, you have to find out how to look like a stud.
But cholov akum? From where does a yetzer hara for such a thing arise? I love you like a brother, MR. #6, but, like, what is going on?????!
May Hashem bless you with a fine shidduch and many chidlren and grandchildren with which to eat many pints of cholov yisroel Leben.

You hit it on the nail! LOL
(5/13/2010 10:13:04 PM)
Maybe I have no right to give advice, as a married person, but I think ppl should be a little more flexible when considering a shidduch, by trying to look at someone as a whole person, taking the different aspects of a person into account, and when going out, also givng the person a chance, you don't have to be "twins", perhaps you will find you will agree on more than you thought, perhaps this takes time to develop, maybe the dating for a few weeks works for ppl who have an instant connection or are exactly what the pther's shopping list for a shidduch was. But for the rest of the ppl, well maybe you need to give it more time, as long as there is some interest there of course (I'm not saying ppl should force themselves to go out with s/o they have nothing in common with or no interest at all) People are complex, why should they not be? The main thing is they should be confident about themselves. Guys, give those complex girls a chance, give them time, get to know them, and good luck!

(5/13/2010 11:38:07 PM)
#6 is defining perhaps the essence of the problem
Yes, very articulate, and to the point... But to throw Chalav Yisroel under the bus, that's a shocker. And perhaps the reason why the "guys" today are so messed up, has more to do with upbringing, Yeshiva's they attended, things they spend their time watching etc.
(5/13/2010 11:44:27 PM)
whats with the cholov akum bashing???
Why are there so many comments about cholov akum? is trimming your beard ok? last i checked its an issur doreisa and cholov stam is a machlokes cholov akum is forsure out but in todays day and age almot all milk in america is chalov stam and thats not so bad. any way i wanted to know how many people that wrote comments against cholov stam say krias shema in the morning before the zeman, b/c that is also a doreisa! why is it that we always remeber that cholov akum is metamtem but if you trim your beared and dont eat cholov akum your still chasidish. the double satndereds are sickening
(5/14/2010 1:21:14 AM)
Getting the right boys
Short Answer:
When you get in contact with Shadchanim, tell them to only pick boys that are interested in marrying a chassidish girl. That way there wont be so many disappointment when the boy doesnt want you. Yes, there will be less boys but it will make you happier that you arent considering boys and then they say that you are too chassidish.
(5/14/2010 1:46:53 AM)
I may watch tv or a movie once in a while but even "considering" or having an iota of a thought to g-d forbid eat anything other than cholov yisroel?? NEVER EVER!
I'm hoping 99.9999999% of Lubavitchers agree with me.
(5/14/2010 1:56:20 AM)
What is interesting to you?
I think #6 hit a good point, but there is another side to the story here. What kind of boy comes up that is interesting to you? It could be that you are not interested in boys who are Chassidish based on some criteria that excludes them (they only wear white shirts, they want to go on Shlichus, they don't have a job, they want to learn in Kollel). Also, lets face it men are like parking spaces, the good ones are taken and the rest are handicapped. If you are looking for a bochur when you are 25, those who are chassidish who didn't marry younger are going to have a story, and you need to make sure you are focusing on the most important aspects in a potential shidduch. You also have to consider one other possibility: the "too chassidish" is a cover for a different reason.

I hope you find your bashert very soon.
(5/14/2010 2:38:35 AM)
Striving to be close to Hashem will only bring Brachos into your life and bring you closer to your ultimate soulmate --in the right time. I once learnt that the more you grow in Yiddishkeit it effects the Neshama of your Zivug and draws him spiritually higher to match you. It doesn't matter how many non-"chassidish" boys there are out there (i.e. who don't want a "chassidishe" girl)-- a reflection of Yeridos HaDoros-- obviously these ones are not for you--there still are still many" Chassidishe" boys who would look at your efforts in Avodas Hashem not only as positive but as basic threshold necessities for a potential spouse to have. Remember there only needs to be ONE for you-- and that ONE will come exactly at the right time when Hashem wants. The most important thing is to stregthen Bitachon and truely internalize that everything is from Hashem-- [take it from a 29 year old divorced single mother]. You should be happy and proud to be a true example of a Bas Yisroel-- standing strong against the tides of assimilation and the "group mentality" to lower ones standards-- as Avroham Avinu was one man standing against the world.
(5/14/2010 2:39:51 AM)
yes correct
My personal opinion is when a girl learns Chitas and Rambam all day and keeps on learning Sichos - I will NOT marry her! This is the domain of a Boucher - not a girl.
(5/14/2010 2:55:27 AM)
Some girls can be like bochurim...
I can understand that some boys may get a little nervous from a girl that is too chassidish, bordering on bochur. They want to marry a girl, not another bochur.
And to the seminary basher: the woman creates the atmosphere in the home, some chassidishkeit is necessary.
(5/14/2010 3:05:17 AM)
being frum is cool is a way to raise our kids. Its all in the parents, they have to understand their kids, not expect them to be just like from their times, but yet help them have good self esteem and the fathers have to LEARN (if they don't know, which alot of people don't) how to relate to their sons to help them be proud of having a girl who says Chitas and has a living and growing desire to be a proud Jew.
(5/14/2010 3:11:36 AM)
Regarding Cholov Yisroel
Forget the fact that drinking NON Cholov Yisrael, is destruction of the soul, but specifically in Crown Heights-one must go out of their way to have it...I mean think about it, to get to Starbucks is a committed walk or inconvenient car ride... MAN, that is purely a TEIYVA!!!!

PPL get it together!
(5/14/2010 3:14:47 AM)
what does chasidish really mean?
if everyone would so kindly look in hayom yom-i cant rember which one specificly- but if you look and see what every single on of the rabbeim called 'a true chossid' or 'the whole avodah of a chosid' or anything like that, from what i understand, the only thing that makes someone chassidish in its true meaning-is solely ahavas yisrael and yiras shamayim! everything else is secondary and just being mekusher to the rebbe! another point- a chossid has to be well rounded in all learning things-also from hayom yom- and if your not and you just talk, is that chassidish? or is it the stero-type of the now-a -day meaning of chassidish and when you call yourself chassidish its because u say your chitas so nicely, and sefer hamitzvos-but you dont have good midos at all?

trying to be chassidish-and not by learning sichos and mamorim!
(5/14/2010 3:16:25 AM)
to 61
(5/14/2010 3:23:58 AM)
to 28 and 58
28 funny as anything with the stud stuff !
58 I for sure agree with you all the way and i think it is b/c with cholov yisroel {especially in NY} you can have everything you want with out crossing the line
(5/14/2010 3:26:17 AM)
to #61
you are sexist
(5/14/2010 3:44:09 AM)
Girls and Boys
I can't help but wondering if one of the problems is in the first line of her letter where she describes herself as a "girl." Girls do not get married and raise families, adults do. She is a young woman, not a girl, and should describe herself as a woman and show that she is mature and ready to get married.
(5/14/2010 4:02:07 AM)
cholov akum?
#6 I am relieved to hear you keep cholov yisroel but im sorry any boy that is looking for a lubavitcher girl even a modern lubavitcher girl, I would think that is unacceptable. I hope that he would be honest with her on the dates about it.... there prob wont be another date, hes more looking for a modern orthodox girl. I mean thats a really unnessecary taiva. considering all the C"Y milchig products out there.
(5/14/2010 4:14:52 AM)
to number 68
Whilst #61 is being sexist and slightly chauvinistic, and feeding a stereotype, on the flip-side he does have a point . When a guy gets married, he wants a wife (I guess this has different connotations for different people) , and not just another chavrusa.

I'm not saying that women shouldn't be educated or learned, I'm the last person to say that. I'm just saying that people may be put off by a girl that is a little too like a bochur, and I for one could understand why.

Personally I prefer other types of learning, so I don't think my husband will have a prob with the Chitas and Rambam ;)
(5/14/2010 4:16:28 AM)
okay now your really looking to analize. Yes "girls" marry "boys" Woman just sounds old. I am married a number of years and still consider myself a girl. I guess I still want to be young. Maturity is your personality not how you label yourself. Grow up!
(5/14/2010 4:17:59 AM)
I call myself chassidish
because I: daven 3x a day, say chitas and sefer hamitzvos, write to the rebbe, and of course I wear skirts that cover my knees at all times, I don't wear tight clothes and I don't watch movies. I want my chassidishe husband to learn rambam chitas and even more than that, to wear white shirts, black yarmulkas and have a full beard. And a normal frame if he wears glasses, not the latest style! @ my age unfortunately there aren't many chassidishe bochrim left. those whom the shadchonim call chassidish don't want to date me because eventhough I'm good looking and dress very presentable, they want a girl who dresses revealing clothes, and that is something I refuse to do. Tight clothes are forbidden, eventhough 99% of the women in CH walk around showing what's supposed to be hidden. too bad, I'll yet find that one good guy that's still left without compromising on tznius, you just wait! and me too I guess ;-(
(5/14/2010 4:23:46 AM)
Well, I expected, great amount of opinions!
(5/14/2010 4:29:45 AM)
to #68
I don't think 61 and 62 are being sexist. They are saying it the way it is. Even a chassidshe bochur, wants to marry a girl who acts like a girl. not one who acts like a bochur. This girl needs to reassure propective shidduchim that even though she does a lot of chassidishe things, like chitas, Rambam etc. in essence she is still a girl.

She will smile at him (boost his fragile male ego) take care of him (give him the TLC that his mother didnt' give him enough of) she will share her insecurities with him (let him feel like he is the man in the house) laugh at his dumb jokes and quote his words of wisdom to her friends (a bit more massaging of the fragile male ego) be tzniusdik to the outside world but totally comfortable with him in private. (a man is man after all).
(5/14/2010 4:32:43 AM)
grab the opportunity
wanna a great shidduch, wanna great sholombayis
sure u do! well stop commenting start learning doing helping smiling davening giving
(5/14/2010 4:44:55 AM)
Missing the point
I think everyone is missing the point. When a boy says a girl is too chassidish (or vice versa), I think they are basically feeling threatened that they may have to have more hidurim in their lives than they were planning on......the bochur perhaps see a girl dressed very tzniusly and maybe they would like to see the girl dressed in a more modern fashion etc. So they label her "too chassidish". In reality it has nothing to do with whether she says Chitas or goes to farbrengens. It has to do with an image the person builds up in their mind of what they "think" they are looking for.
But maybe it is time to drop many of these "images" and look for what Hashem wants for you. because if you consistently want to find what YOU WANT to find, you may be in for a disappointment. You have to look at who your other half is, who would compliment you, help you reach a higher level and who would truly be your helpmate. Nevertheless, if someone really feels that another person is on a level of chassidishkeit that is beyond their reach, they have to be honest about it as that could adversely affect shalom bayis. People have to be open, honest and talk about what they want in life and what level they would like to aspire to. If the other side wants to help them reach that level and can tolerate their "differences", it is okay. If not, that is not your bashert, Keep looking. But do not blame "chassidishkeit". This is the new yezer hara of subtly look for excuses to lower one's standards, That is not the keli for finding one's bashert. One has to trust in Hashem and surely He knows who to match with is all a matter of timing. May everyone merit to find their basherts bkarov mamash and set up true chassidishe homes.
(5/14/2010 4:54:42 AM)
#6, #61, and the cholov stam/ cholov yisroel comments
#6 - I must say, you have a point and it is not a crime to mention some things people do. At least, if you are honest, you marry someone who is actually a match for you

#61 - interesting thought, sexist or not but i actually agree and i am a girl

Please don't confuse cholov stam and cholov akum. Furthermore, none of you get to judge anyone, so get over it!
(5/14/2010 4:58:44 AM)
A bit lost.........
After all of these comments, im just wondering if the person that I'm looking for is even exists? Is it possible that a boy is normal chassidish.... MEANING good middos, loves yiddishkeit and the rebbe and acts like a frum jew but is still open minded MEANING knows how to have fun in life not only thru learning, doesnt think that talking about anything other then torah is not good and doesnt want to go on shlichus. Is there no middle path??
(5/14/2010 5:21:11 AM)
to #66 (re:#61)
That's funny, cuz I COMPLETELY agree with #61 - and I'm a girl!!!! (and considered a very chassidish one at that)
Like #62 said - a girl is supposed to be a girl, not a bochur.
And #69 - dont get picky on the words... in today's lingo, girl = not married, woman = married, regardless of age. it's not discrimination or anything of the sort, its just an easier way to figure out who you're talking about.
(5/14/2010 5:21:45 AM)
to 43
the problem is not the seminary, its the girl. Any 17 - 19 yr old girl who goes off to seminry and doesnt yet know who she is, where she stands, what she wants to get out of seminary and where she wants to go in life, is the one with the issue. come on... where have you been for the past 18 yrs of your life that you're jus gonna go away and get "brainwashed'?!!! What wre you doing during highshool? sleeping? i hope by the time a girl graduates she know herself and what she wants... then seminary won't brainwash and change you into a wacko... it's just like the cherry on top - a little enhancement but doesnt change YOU!
(5/14/2010 5:38:21 AM)
to # 32
"well i'm chasidish and have no interest in a chasidisher girl. whats wrong with that?"

Thats a major part of the problem. There are many guys who are known to be "great bochurim" and are saying no to "great girls" because they dont want chassidish girls, but they give off the impression that they do.
(5/14/2010 5:43:46 AM)
OK, here's MHO
I am a girl, and i have been through the system. I went to a great HS and a great sem. No, i did not come out of sem "semmed out" because i did not think the point of a girl(-to be come a woman) is to live in atzilus. I consider my self chassidish in the sense that i daven, try to say my chitas, learn once in a while, dress tznius( and at the same time in a presentable, stylish way) and build my connection to the Rebbe. Why should a girl, who feels and knows it's right to do the above mentioned things drop it because there are bochurim who think this is "too chassidish"? No! because along with all those things, comes a fun, deep, caring, sensitive, loving personality. They can go hand in hand. It's the woman who creates the atmosphere in the home, and she has to show how you can be a balanced person.

I believe very strongly that a girl should not be a bochur. what do i mean by that, that she shouldn't run to a shiur, farby, mivtzoim... if she knows there are gashmius responsibilities that need to be taken care of in her home. However, why should a woman not have the chance to inspire herself once in a while? What do you think will keep your wife from "frying out"? every human needs to be inspired. Each person (girls and boys) finds their way of being inspired, for one its chitas, another farby...
And i believe every bochur should understand that once you get married, it is very easy to slip down, and it will be your wife who will help you stay strong! so look out for a girl who has her head screwed on properly, and not just a fluffy, shallow, spoiled girl.
Good luck to us all.
(5/14/2010 6:06:35 AM)
u guys
just need to take a chill pill........
(5/14/2010 6:10:27 AM)
I'm not a nerd
and that's what people think of you when they hear 'chassidish'.
(this is # 73 again)
I agree with #75, without the fragile part, cause I don't think all men have such low self esteem and all that, but they do want a good loking wife etc, and they WILL get that, but they won't have to discuss her size and length of her nose while dating, let them do that after they're married and he still isn't sure he has seen it all from close by!
(5/14/2010 6:17:25 AM)
a little late
I wasent going to reply till I saw the comments..

If you ask me, many are looking at thwe wrong avenues.. i'm an ffb that fried out, now i'm frum but not chasidish crazy.. I would want to marry a BT.

You need to conclude that blanket labeling does no good.. regardless of the guys out there, your looking for one guy.

I watch movies, but a girl that wears stockings is my type of lady
(5/14/2010 6:21:29 AM)
No. 86 -- you are right. People do change over time.
It's all from the heart. If the girl is sincere and cool so be it. That is Chabad.
If the girl is very chassidish and not so sincere, so be it.
That is Chabad.
We're all one big family.
Now # 86 are you still looking? Can I give you my email ?
Mother if a daughter.
(5/14/2010 6:52:32 AM)
What have we come to?
It was a crime for my daughter to be too Chassidish in 8th grade when her "friend" from the "best" family humiliated her because she wouldn't go to a sleepover when they were going to watch goyishe movies. So I totally understand what this young lady means.

I agree with Mrs. Junik: as far as I can see, the word "Chassidishe" now equals "frum." If you ARE makpid on CY, you don't watch movies or go stockingless & don't want a guy who trims... you are frum. That is perhaps the biggest shanda, the fact that people with standards are looked down upon.

Non-Chassidish means all of the above, plus the following: you won't be too particular about personal inyanim esp. in private (I'll go no further on that!); you will barely cover your hair, arms, or other body parts; you have no problem on wearing a mini skirt with footless tights; davenning? HUH??? You'll be OK with walking down Kingston holding hands with your husband on a Shabbos afternoon (I've seen that too); you won't mind if he wears the modern "mini" Kapote that looks like a Chassidishe jacket, no more, or if he doesn't wear what? And if he doesn't daven occasionally because he overslept or you were out...well, that's not so bad. After all, who will know? Only G-d.

Personally, I think these things indicate a lack of FRUMKEIT, not Chassidishkeit. And from what I see & hear, there are plenty of young couples who ARE NOT FRUM.

So, dear young lady. I wish I had a son for you (my son found a young lady just like you, B"H, someone who is with it & Frum without being fachniyot). Please be aware there ARE Frum young men out there. You definitely should re-vamp your profile. Say what you do and what you expect from your zivug & the kind of home you want for your family.

I really wish you much Hatzlacha. You sound just what normal, frum guys are looking for. Is there an email address you can create so mothers & Shadchanim can reach you?

One last thing. If I offended anyone by calling them not frum...too bad. If you don't like the tag, change your ways. But don't start crying foul when you act & dress the way you do.
(5/14/2010 6:55:20 AM)
To 56
Please learn some halachah before posting. The only issu deorita in taking off ones beard is if one does so with a razor! One could not possibly TRIM in such a manner, ergo, no dorita.
(5/14/2010 7:14:56 AM)
daye zuger
i had an idea that the list should be categorized by age, location, profession etc. so it'll be easier for parents and singles to navigate the list.
maybe that each single can write a 3 line summary of what they are looking for also.
(5/14/2010 7:25:08 AM)
Boruch N. Hoffinger
Don't read: too Chassidish,' read 'too pious, too religious.'
Probably the best type of mother there could be.
(5/14/2010 7:33:45 AM)
a bochur
me, om a reg guy, om not the frumest so a lot of wat i no is from the goyshe wrld.
wat r the proper things 2 talk abt on a date w/ a grl?
in the goyshe wrld ur asking abt her hobbies, interests etc.
wat is the proper way on a frum date?
wat questions do u ask? wat do we talk abt?
(5/14/2010 7:48:33 AM)
To #89 and #56
#89, According to the Tzemach Tzedek, any removal of the beard is an issue deoraisah, but if I remember correctly only trimming was d'rabonon (still assur, though - like drinking milk together with your salami sandwitch).

#56, the reason that people were shocked about the Cholov Yisroel is that they weren't aware of it (I was disturbed as well). Trimming is an embarrassment that the bochur wears openly on his face. What he eats is private, so those who are melamed zchus won't be choshed that people are so low.

Unfortunately, given what has been brought into my young nephew's class as snacks in Lubavitch Yeshiva already told me that this line was crossed.
(5/14/2010 8:06:25 AM)
what people really mean when they say chassidush
i think the answer to the girls question is simple as stated before, if your more chassidush then him, you are not a match. why would he want a rebbetzin at his toes, you obviosly need someone with the same chassidush values as you, if you want your marraige to work.
i do think however that there is a mislabling with chassidush and not chassidush these days. this is how it i see it, nowadays even if someone does not act chassidush in the slightest, but is not cool they are labled chassidush, and vise versa. this is obviosly rediculous so i think if the girl/boy is not in your league, just say not my speed! dont mislable herhim in to chassidush when in reality that is far from the truth
(5/14/2010 8:06:55 AM)
#88 on the button
Watching movies in not a frume thing (at all)!! not dressing with tznius is not a frume thing (ITS AGAINST SHULCHAN ARUCH. I.E. G-DS WILL AS IS EATING PORK)!! trimming your beard is AGAINST shulchan aruch (thats what the Tzemach Tzedek says, and if you don't follow his instructions why do you call yourself lubavitch?? think about it. the T"T says that shortening your beard in any way is the same as using a razor, ASUR MIN HATRORAH!!!)

So yes, if you do any of these thing, R"L, you are not frum. sorry. I didn't mean to say it so clearly but that is what it is.

Frum, by definition, means following shulchan aruch. (yes, there are rabbonim which will be makel on some stuff and some that will be machmir, but certain thing are clear like shabbos, kosher and so is tznius!!! etc.) so if you don't follow the rules, you're not part of the game. you're entitled to make your own game, and you can give it whatever name you want, besides for the name "Frum" or "Orthodox Jew" those are registered for those who follow Gd's commands.

Have a great Shabbos!

May G-d have mercy on us and bring the very much needed redemption!!!
(5/14/2010 8:08:12 AM)
i'm still single, cant say i'm looking.. I havent really dated and the mild forays into the wilderness of dating left me turned off.

If only people can be more open and direct in life.. ask someone what they want in life, what is important to them, what they will stand up for, fight for.. and if need be die for...

As Rabbi Akiva said: everything is ahavas yisrael, the rest is all perush..
(5/14/2010 8:14:58 AM)
a girl
to #86, i like your style. you sound very openminded, chilled, and down to earth but still religious, you wil make a girl very happy.
#91, i have never dated in the past, but speaking from siblings experience and worldly influences, the first 2 or three dates, your trying to get to know eachother, even though your frum, like the outside world, you are still human beings, your not going on a chavrusa hunt when your dating, so make sure your pesonalitys mesh well. once you have a foundation and feel like you know eachother, perferabely the 4th or 5th date, you can start moving on to more serious topics, like values, frumkeit...
(5/14/2010 8:28:46 AM)
To #6
You the man... that's the best way to look at it.
you gotta be a little open minded for these days.
that's just the way people are these days!!
(5/14/2010 8:45:50 AM)
To Bochur
Get your self a mentor
Somebody who has experience training Bochurim to be married Men
Asay Lecha Rav!
In the first date you talk about the trees or what ever
In the second about Yiras Shamayim, if you do not agree to some higher authority (Shulchan Aruch), how will you ever agree?
In the third date you speak about having a family and the way you agree to run your home. (Your ideas will mature after you get married and have to work, but for now, you have to have some idea.)
PS Its good to read good books on how women think
Try "Garden of Peace" by R'Arush
(5/14/2010 8:46:17 AM)
Marketing 100%!
"So it's all about marketing? What happens the product is not as advertised? This aint Costco....getting a refund won't be so easy... "
What the "shadchanim of CHABAD " are marketing - who knows!
Money+ Gesher+Shliach kid= You can write your own ticket .
Everyone else......... : expect to get anything on 2 feet!!!
or Silence.
(5/14/2010 8:53:22 AM)
Asking for advice in the wrong places
Sorry , but the lady here is talking the talk.
Most of the Mishigas that they tell you isn't gonna work.
In Chabad if you are from one of the inner circle,
Original chassidim of one of the Rebbes , shluchim or gvirim you can barter.
It doesn't matter what kind of a person you are, how hard you try , how honest or how frum you are, if they decide they don't want to have anything to do with you , or other people are malshining you YOU CAN FORGET IT.

(5/14/2010 8:59:12 AM)
to number 91
when you are a bit older (say older than 15) and actually ready to go out someone will enlighten you. For now get yourself back in mesivta.
(5/14/2010 9:22:47 AM)
# 6
(5/14/2010 9:52:36 AM)
#88 continued
In the end, any bochur or girl should ask the following questions:

How do I want my children to be raised?
What examples must I set if I want them to be a certain way?
Is this person whom I want to raise my children?
(5/14/2010 10:27:03 AM)
#86 again
Why thank you, but there's more to that than making a woman happy. Now on the top of the list, i'd like to see kind and considerate in the shiduch quality list.

Oh and to those who always talk about the system and connections, money, gezha etc.. you gotta cut it out.. its sad that parents and kids are worried about these things.. you worry about finding the bashert... whats in the bank, who her parents are, are the last things im interested in.
(5/14/2010 10:34:44 AM)
The most annoying thing in life is a good example. - Mark Twain
(Samuel Clemens)
(5/14/2010 10:53:30 AM)
Get a proper English education, and then let's talk.
(5/14/2010 11:08:54 AM)
I like reading through these comments. But I just cud take notice that some people tend to add "ER" at the end of soem words. Seems like only British people do that! (Chassidisher... Gesher...) I mean.. never heard of that version before- looks kind of really weird to me! Oh u english!
(5/14/2010 11:47:09 AM)
get a life
there's to many comments and every one sounds bored and ridiculous.
chassidish is not what u do but how you feel and act!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
say chitas and shokol during davening on the train wearing mini skirts no socks and short sleeves.
come on get a life. there's challenges and levels for everyone and for some saying chitas isn't a big deal so they do it, it doesn't make them chassidish,!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/14/2010 11:50:30 AM)
im looking for a girl that will describe herself not just put a black and white label im chassidishe...i want a chassidishe girl but at the same time chilled out
(5/14/2010 11:57:30 AM)
#110 oximoron. you mean open minded. chassidishe and chilled out .... two different things. your saying you want a frum bum! but you know what its a good thing you used that ling, i have a shidduch for you
(5/14/2010 12:37:05 PM)
to 109
chassidish is absolutely what you do. don't tell me that it's enough to say that you FEEL connected to G-d but you don't keep kosher, pray or keep shabbos.

to 110
get your definitions straight, those two terms are paradoxic!

moshiach now!
(5/15/2010 1:09:47 AM)
yup, yup, no, no, kinda
Mrs. J did address the problem. You can't call yourself chassidish because, as my 10th grade English teacher said, it's a JUDGMENTAL ADJECTIVE. It means different things to different people.

I daven, say chitas, am relatively tznuis, and make it a point to learn with a friend at least once a week. However, I am not chassidish (because what chassidishe people are TO ME, I am not). I'd describe myself as frum- except that too is a judgemental adjective.

It's like saying something is a gorgeous (sorry for the stereotype. but it's simplistic). A guy might use that word for a car, but a girl would use 'gorgeous' to describe a dress. A dress is usually not gorgeous to the guy and for some girls cannot care less about a car and would not describe it as gorgeous...

Therefore, as Mrs. J said, you need details. You want/ don't want someone who:
says chitas (say chitas...learn chitas...)
davens daily
keeps kosher (duh. but what kind of kosher...1/2 hour after milk....details)
does/doesn't read non-jewish books (what type of books versus other types of books)
goes to minyanim
has seen movies, but doesn't anymore
watches movies
doesn't watch movies
random examples...but you get the point

As for bochur agreed with Mrs. J: "out with guys who wanna marry a very chassidish girl is because you may be a little more relaxed. you may dress a bit modern, you dont necessarily wanna go on shlichus, some of your close friends are not very chassidsh..... "
basically give detials about what kind of of person your looking for...don't say chassidish...say i do or don't want someone who want shlichus...
(5/15/2010 2:53:10 AM)
Lubavitch and Newbavitch
Frankly, I think it can be summed up as follows: Some of us are Lubavitchers, strong in the Rebbe o.b.m.'s inyonim, namely halacha, and chitas, rambam, etc.

Others are Newbavitchers, i.e. those raised Lubavitch but haven't for one reason or another internalized the Rebbe's inyonim. (A more extreme example is like my neighbor from 10 years ago whose kids were mendel and zalman but as soon as she left CH she took off her head covering and the skirt that she had on over her pants.)

For some, a Chassidishe girl is threatening and they don't want their mommy; they're trying to do away with that. They've had enough of that for hte past 23/25 years. For others it would be a blessing.

Another issue at hand is that for many Lubavitchers there isn't much to do after Smicha / Seminary other than wait for a shidduch. Since a lot want to go on Shlichus, they get stuck in the waiting game. It is much better to go and develop oneself in something, and it will help them in shlichus as well.

Let's hope that each person finds their proper match.
(5/15/2010 10:38:35 AM)
to all of you!
i must say this is one of the most hilarious commend threads I've ever seen :)
keep it up you made my day
(5/15/2010 2:17:06 PM)
a girl
#110 is not an oximoron.
A girl can be chassidish (daven, no movies...) but still open-minded and modern - but not in a bad sense. Fun, can talk about things other than sichos and mamorim..... so #110 dont lose hope
(5/15/2010 3:17:57 PM)
To #43
Excuse me sir, but Seminaries are a great learning expirience for many.
Secondly, 'for the first time' is a complete generelization of seminaries, girls and families around the world or in your case probably Crown Heights.
I must tell you something, I am on shlichus and will IY"H , be going away from home for high school, my sister has already made the move.
For people like us it will not be 'for the first time' and thirdly, not all these many 'sem' girls have this problem.
My aunt who is also on shlichus but B"H never had to leave home, is now engaged to be married to an amazing boy, she also went to seminary and she is chassisdish but kind, she holds a steady job an dresses stylishly and i know of many more just like her, so, I think that you shoukd rephrase your comment because as you can very well see, generalizing is not going to get us nowhere.
were you ever at a seminary?Or are you are you just a frustrated bocher, or maybe married man?
Which ever of these senarios you may be, it does not give you the right to lash out at seminaries, girls and their backgrounds.
I must add that if I came across as harsh, I didn't mean to and on a certain level, I do agree with Mr.43 to a certain but only to a certain extent.
(5/15/2010 3:22:03 PM)
i know the perfect girl for you!
in fact, there are sooooo many girls that fit into this category...
chassidish in their behavior, and values, and at the same time, down-to-earth, love having a good time, tlaking about anything..dress nicely,
and im sure you also want some good midos ;)
Good luck! IYH you will find your girl.
(btw, out of curiosity, what do you mean by chasidish? what do you mean by chilled out?)
(5/15/2010 3:54:57 PM)
married boy
let me try to answer from a married guy prospective.
when i married my wife. I loved the fact that my wife, learned chitas, davened or anything else ruchnius. My wife was a withit modern girls as well, so was i.

i dont think learning chitas is too chassidush. maybe what the sahdchin means is that the girl is too nerdy to be blunt.!
(5/15/2010 4:01:12 PM)
to all of u
what is a real chassidish boy?
(5/15/2010 4:10:18 PM)
Chassidish Boy
IDK, it depends what "type" you're looking for.
for example, i'm looking for someone, who has yiras shamayim, cares about halacha, minyan, mikvah, learning, doesn't watch movies, dresses like a chassid, and, at the same time balanced, can have fun, go on vacation, biking, bowling, just chill with his fam,
I think that's really chassidish, cuz you know how to balance your life.
Let me know if you know such a guy.
(5/15/2010 4:55:04 PM)
the term chassidish
when i think of too chassidish i think of nerdy..... like a bit chinyuky and someone not so worldly... maybe thas what people are being turned off by...people can be chassidish and normal...
(5/15/2010 5:03:43 PM)
to # 83
you are a smart girl
(5/15/2010 6:01:46 PM)
to #17
I have no clue who you are, but I love your hashkafois and I really hope to meet you one day! M'chayil el choyil!
(5/15/2010 6:04:59 PM)
The girl has a point
Many times my son has rejected a suggestion because the girl was 'too chasidish'. Dear girl, that means the girl is too good for him. There are frum and chasidish guys out there. Just, not as many as there used to be. (#6 sounds like my son.) When one of our daughters was frummer than our sons, ( typical American bachurim) we were open to Europeans and to B.T.s for her. Some compromise might be necc., but don't compromise on Frunkeit and chasidishkeit. Good luck.
(5/15/2010 6:19:44 PM)
to 61
sounds like you're from afghanistan
(5/15/2010 7:29:22 PM)
#86 i realize that wasnt your point, but it is refreshing to hear because there arent alot of "in between" out there
(5/15/2010 7:33:38 PM)
Get Real
Perspectives on all of it changes when you have children- and you think,How do I want the father/mother of my child to be? You are noy simply marrying a girl/boy. They will, G-d Willing be building a life with you.
(5/15/2010 8:28:55 PM)
Shiddach system lost the plot!
i think the problem is we are soo caught up on is she/he chassidish enough? does he/she want to go on shlichus? why not go out, see if your personality matches (obbviously within reason of being on about the same level). If you get on well, find each other interesting, fun to be around, atrractive you will figure out these things! we are not marrying jobs, we are marrying people! We are not marrying people to be our rabbis or our congregants... we are marrying people to support us through thick and thin! I think the focus needs to leave does he wear jeans or does she say chitas and go to are they both on the growing path... ok, let them go out and see for themselves if they can get along!
(5/15/2010 9:14:09 PM)
Look into the future (hechacham einov b'roishoi)
#125, I agree with you , no compromise on frumkeit, and chassidishkeit.

Think how you want to raise your children as some wrote. If you want your boys to be learners, it will not happen unless their father is a committed learner himself. If you want your children to follow halacha without compromise, look for someone like that now, and make sure that people know this as his outstanding quality . Don't accept less.

re: #122 "chassidish and normal" aka:
Someone who "knows how to have a good time? fun?" Sounds to me like mixed (up) priorities. Not gonna be fun in real life, having to beg and negotiate for every inch of frumkeit beyond the barebones minimum in your home.

Keep your focus, may Hashem help you find your bashert very soon!

to #122, regarding the terms nerdy, chnyuky, not so worldly- you mean someone who rejects hanochos haoilom, and has chassidishe hanochos? that's what we want for our children!
(5/16/2010 1:29:03 AM)
Just trying to make this the most commented on article :)
(5/16/2010 4:14:40 AM)
too chassidish?
in a marriage u r supposed to grow, so if ur wife pushes u to learn a liitle more then GOOD! this gives mixed messages to girls...should we not be too chassidish and take on too many hachlotos because bachurim dont rlly like it?
this should NOT be that way!!
(5/16/2010 4:20:58 AM)
Just wanted to make this the most commented on article :)
Dear Writer,
A. Please clarify what you mean by chassidish. Calling someone chassidish is a pet peeve of mine. Are they a chossid? Are they striving to fulfill the Rebbe's Inyanim to the best of their ability? (MInd you- all of the iyanim including derech eretz, tznius, ahavas yisroel etc. not just chitas, farbrengans etc.) Whats with the ish? Is the color yellow or not really so you call it yellowish?
B. In my experience in the shidduch scene, there are a few reasons why a boy would not want to go out with you due to reasons of chassidishkeit:
1. He's takeh not chassidish enough for you and therefore the shidduch is not shiach and as hard as it is, we need to be grateful that we didn't have to go thru the emotional upheavel of going out with the boy, liking him, and realizing together with our mashpia that he is not going to allow you to build the binyan adi ad you are trying to create.
2. His family isn't interested in you whether it be because of your family status, or various other reason and they are trying to find a way to politely say no.
3. They are using the word chassidish in the wrong way. Perhaps they mean to say you are too farchenyucked (sorry i have no clue how to spell that), nerdy, or snobbish (better than thou syndrome).
4. Boys have an ego complex. I don't mean this in a bad way, i mean it as truth that's how G-d created us men-mashpia women-mekabel. They need to feel superior to the girl because they are the mashpia in the marriage and in order to create a healthy marriage they need the ability to fulfill this role. If they don't feel they have what to offer you then rightfully so they are not interested.
Side Point to Commentators:
#25-Thank you-for giving us single girls hope that there are more great single bachurim out there. I hope you meet the right one soon.
#29-All I can say is huh? Where do you come from? Religous issues should not be brought up? What type of home do you plan on having? I trully hope I misunderstood your meaning.
#83 You took the words out of my mouth. Defining the role of a chossid is different according to whether you are a male or female. I too would like to marry a bachur and be a chassidiste, not become a bachur. (was the good high school bcla by any chance ;)
#114-"Another issue at hand is that for many Lubavitchers there isn't much to do after Smicha / Seminary other than wait for a shidduch"
While I agree with you that for some this may be an issue, I would like to share with you something I gained from Rabbi Y Jacobson's talk to nightlife earlier this year. He spoke about how although yes this "waiting" time in a girls life can be very challenging, it is a time we can take advantage of. We can utilize this time to grow in ways we never will have time to later in our lives when we will imh be busy with our husband and children. To grow in our yirei shmayim, hiskashrus to the rebbe, learning etc. Thank you Rabbi Jacobson for teaching me to not waste my time by "waiting" but rather to utlize my time now to the fullest.
For those of you who made it this this far I'm not sure if I should say shkoach or get a life :)
(5/16/2010 4:49:53 AM)
i am 17 years old...and seeing all these issues about shidduchim is not at marriageable age but hopefully i wont have to go trough these unfortunate troubles!!

wishing u lots of Hatzlocha....and agree with #22
(5/16/2010 4:56:12 AM)
To number 83
Lets go out!
(5/16/2010 6:31:04 AM)
# 133, i cud say i made it to as far as the ish comment, and the reason for that is it really cought my eye! i heard that once too and wondered does ish mean chassidush in a polite way, or not so chassidush, like ishy, so in between??? could someone please explain the word ish? and i absolutely agreee people definitely use the word chasidush in the wrong way, just because someone is nerdy doesnt make them chassidush! stop downgrading the word and stop labling people to something that their not!!! we have really lost sight of its meaning. who are you to tell people what they are, they know best because they feel what they are and what they want to be! not you.
(5/16/2010 6:51:20 AM)
Apparently...most of you are young
Reading many of the comments, it seems obvious that you 'guys' are youngsters.

Take a look at your parents. Have you seen them change, over the years, from 'chasidish' to non-c or the opposite? Did your father start learning more? Stop watching as much TV? Does your mother say more tehillim, listen to Jewish tapes (Manis) etc?

You are looking at marriage as if it is a 3 year lease, and then time for a trade-in.

We ALL change. The way we feel in our early 20's is NOT how we will see ourselves and the world when we reach 30, 40 etc. Once all the excitement of marriage, boy-girl, fun etc. dissipates, it's time to be an adult and bring up a family. Parents of children do not have the same time (or inclination) to go to movies, malls, games, travel - like you did when you're a newlywed.

Once you grow outta that stuff, you begin to see what all those boring mashpiim and 'chasidic' friends were telling you.

Being frum and chasidish is so much more fulfilling then a movie or Hawaii vacation. (Sure you should enjoy each other and life... but that's NOT the goals and objective OF life.)

Take it from an alter kaker. The frumer one is, (even frum people like to have fun...) the more stable and fulfilling your marriage and life will be, and the better chance you'll have of bringing up normal, nachas-to-the Rebbe children.

PS, Cholov Akum is treif gamur in the Chabad section of Brooklyn.
(5/16/2010 7:32:04 AM)
86 again
#137 your so right, I was going to say the same thing.. people see marriage like they do a car.. it's all about the body and 3 year lease
(5/16/2010 9:16:49 AM)

At the end of the day, I believe the problem is the title, " I am Chasideshe."

Ok, so you say that you are chasideshe but, What happens when you have time off? What do you do when you want to just relax? What does a day of fun mean to you? It is not only enough to be "Chasideshe" I want to know who you are! I don't care if you say three prakim of Rambam or one, I want to know that when I come home after a hard day at the office, or I come home form a hard day at kollel that there is a "person" that I can communicate with, a person that understands me, a person that will raise my children with the right morals and responsibilities.

Religion is not enough to be happy in life. Yes, people that are religious tend to lead happier lives, but that is only because they have other factors in play. For example, If someone was to be given a choice between two different, prospective shiduchim, one that has a very detailed profile of her actual personality, and one that has on it the word "chasideshe". I believe that any sane person will most likely
decide to meet the one with the detailed personality because when you strip away all the "chasideshness" of that person there is an actual human to talk to, one that is much more pleasing to live with for the rest of your life. You need to have other aspects of your life that are not directly connected to judaism, of course when you practice these aspects they should be conducted in the appropriate manner, but you have to be someone, not a title!

To conclude, don't write what you are, write who you are. Of course you should write that you say chitas, but when a shiduch sees your resume that part should be a side note not a major factor.

Oh, and to address the "chalov Yisroel" Issue. Do you think that acting and responding in a highly-negative manner will inspire him to change his methods? When will you all realize that all you are doing is harming the youth by being so negative. This is not an old generation, this a new one, one that is not intimidated by such negativity. I have no doubt in my mind that the REBBE would NOT have acted like some of you did. The Rebbe was always patient and kind and like the Rebbe once said - "Things that are spoken from the heart, penetrate the heart"

If you want him to change his ways then explain to him in kind words what the issues with chalov yisroel are, otherwise don't respond at all!!

(5/16/2010 9:46:15 AM)
u can email your name to
(5/16/2010 10:01:13 AM)
86 again
I doubt the problem is chalov yisrael per see.. I am a notorious coffee lover (I just gave myself away hehe) and I either opt for soy or byom (bring your own milk.. and yep I get stares)

Yes I do stare longingly at the Starbucks bottled cappuccino' and warm memory's of days bygone flood me.. its not a big deal overall.. the problem is where the priority's lie.. I dont go often to the mikva stam..
(5/16/2010 12:41:11 PM)
wow i see shidduchim are already starting to sprout! too bad im not bal teshuvah, #86 tottally sounds my type!
(5/16/2010 3:23:01 PM)
what in the world???
"describe what makes you chassidish. Explain that you say Chitas every day, and attend farbrengens etc. Describe what you are looking for in a bocher, that he should not touch his beard, daven with a minyan, have a mashpia … whatever it is that is important to you."

why is it that these 3 things are waht makes you chasidush
not touching your beard is much more omportant that having a mashpia.
to find a mashpia is not a easy thing to do, and i think it is discusting to put that in the same catagory as not touching your beard.
you are basiccaly telling me i am not chassidush bec i hav not yet found the proper mashpia.
thank you. i really do appreciate that.
(5/16/2010 4:36:04 PM)
# 143
please don't take it personal!
this is the whole point, we are all so diff. and hold at diff levels, and for this exact reason we need to describe ourselves better! because for one the 2 may go in the same category, and for another (you) they don't. And all this just come to prove how we can each interpret chassidish in such diff ways!!!
(5/16/2010 5:29:27 PM)
From an Edmonton shlucha
Mrs Junik what a wonderful answer and may this blog continue to bear fruits Hatzlacha
(5/16/2010 7:03:41 PM)
lot of comments here
(5/17/2010 5:48:52 AM)
It's really a matter of who's on the market. Sometimes guys have the same problem the other way around.
(5/17/2010 12:05:34 PM)
oh and this is comming mostly from crown heightzers
in my respected opinion... my view on ch people is that 80% arent chassidish, chassidish starts with the way u look.
women married or unmarried wearing tight shirts mini skirts and long seductive shaitels but who say chitas are in the category of chassisdish no, ur wrong. and this is wat most of young crown heights looks like. so b/4 u say theyre rejecting u cuz u say chitas, look at how ur dressed.
b/c tznius is so crucial to our generation cuz if the parents already are xtremely modern and momsweraing minis who cares if the child wears pants. MOVIES isnt rly the problem its the way u look and act.

im in the category of a chassidish gurl who is very nto middos and tznius, kashrus, who u hang arround with but occasionnlay ill watch movies.

get my point?
(5/17/2010 3:24:39 PM)
Two points
Dear Author,

I've read every comment and have been thinking about this a lot, as a formerly "older girl" who is now B"H a wife and mother. First of all, it's wonderful that you learn, daven, go to shiurim etc. Please remember that you can do so much of this precisely because you're single. Before I was married, I davened at least shachris & mincha daily, said Chitas, went to a couple of shiurim a week, etc. And then marriage and children came. Now if I daven normally once a day, fabulous, if I say Tehillim, great. But unusual. Shiurim? Events? It had better be very, very important to me or, after a long day, I'd much rather enjoy some quiet time with my husband or just chill out by myself for a while. My tafkid is about my family now. So savor this time you have to learn, because it will have to last you until your kids are older and you can once again dive into that world. Tell shadchanim, yes you do all these things, because you have the time and freedom, but that you understand that once you're a wife and mother, that's where your priorities will be. You DO know that, right?

Secondly, regarding the bochurim rejecting someone because they are described as "chassidishe," something that occurred to me which no one, all 148 of you, mentioned: We can all name, off the tops of our heads, a few women who are dedicated daveners, say Chitas, are at every farbrengen and every shuir, and yet -- their homes are tzefloigen, there are no proper, healthful meals, their older kids are going off the derech. Oh, but they learn Chitas! If you and I can think of women like that whom we know, so can the bochurim. Maybe it's their mother (after all who called the shadchan and wanted to investigate the nice chassidishe girl who says Chitas?), or their neighbor down the hall. Maybe it's the wife of their older brother, who's now distraught over how his home is turning out, when he thought he was getting the perfect chassidishe girl? Unfortunately there are too many such situations around us, and maybe, just maybe, this bochur doesn't want that. Maybe he wants a home that radiates simcha, that has a seder to it, where the mother isn't too busy learning Rambam to notice that a diaper needs to be changed. So, a little rachmones on the bochurim, please.

Which brings me back to my first point. Yes learn, daven, and koch in it, but know that there is a time in life for everything. Communicate that you have your priorities lined up right, and you should soon be under the chuppah IY"H!
(5/17/2010 5:15:26 PM)
lrrt tem be as casidich ty culd get !
teh fakte is that once u get maride u dont hve time as befor and u go dawn a fuw levels so mor casidh u are you hve mor cahnses to be konektet to teh rebbe slit'e and to hsem' and so on botem lien it's like in a hoshe bayis you got to be as wrem as posibel wiel singel to be abel to stey cnektet '; blive me i tokink from exprince '' end ''let's be rede to greet the rebbe melch hmosiach''
(5/17/2010 6:50:14 PM)
#86 and #142
i am a bal teshuva for 2 years now...wouldnt sescribe myself as chassidish but i wear stocking and say chitas relaxed person..and #142 what is wrong with being a bal teshuva? in todays today are people afraid to marry bal teshuva's?? or dont their parents want them too?? im not offended would just like to know how it works..
(5/17/2010 11:15:50 PM)
Bal Teshuva...#86
whats bal teshuva go to with this? im just a bit confused i am a bal teshuva, not todays day and age r FFB anti getting married to Bal Teshuva's, or is it their parents that dont want them to marry Bal Teshuva???
(5/18/2010 2:12:36 AM)
#152 and 152 from #86
Both my parents are baalei teshuva, i thought I made it clear that I DO want to marry a baalat teshuva..

Wear stockings, say chitas.. and not ubber chasidish sounds great.. how do I join the droves here and get an email?
(5/20/2010 3:48:11 PM)
to #153
(5/20/2010 7:26:04 PM)
thank just wondering are you single because we both agree on these issues so maybe we can discuss this you have an email??
(5/20/2010 7:41:05 PM)
too shassidish? is that a real thing?
Finding it difficult to find a chassidish girl. Never heard of someone having a problem with too chassidish. I'd be willing to bet whoever said that was lying about their real reason for not wanting to date you but this sounded to them like a more respectable way of saying no
(9/4/2014 5:16:13 PM)
looking for a shidduch
im a 35 yr old older single bochur, never been married, all around nice guy, good learner, i work, looking for a shidduch, i am heimish-hassidishe, open to yeshivish too, if anybody know anything please email me at
(4/17/2015 4:31:42 PM)
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