Dec 19, 2015
Guy Bashing Isn't the Answer

From the COLlive Inbox: "Recently there's been a growing trend to blame the guys' side in this game no one enjoys."

By a bochur

Dating can be fun. It can be exciting. It makes sense; the potential of meeting the person you will spend the rest of your life with is exhilarating. But then there's the other side to dating. It can be horrible and nasty. It can drain all your energy. It just doesn't make as much sense. We do it because it's necessary. It's about all we have, whether we like it or not.

An article was recently published on this website that lists all the "authentic" qualities that girls look for in a guy.

The author then asks, "So why are shidduchim so difficult?" The comments on this article brought us that much closer to the answer. Let me explain how.

"Guy bashing" has become all too common in the secular world. For some time the frum community seemed to have been spared from the trend. However, it's become all too clear that we're slowly - or not so slowly - catching up. "He is very much like a golem," says one comment. How mature.

Recently there's been a growing trend to blame the guys' side in this game no one enjoys. Pointing fingers at a particular group for the difficulties in the dating scene is childish. It just doesn't help anyone.

No one party is responsible for the so-called "shidduch crisis." Both guys and girls, I would imagine, wish it would just disappear. Anyone in the dating scene knows that it's not fun. It hurts. It's horrible.

But guys don't like it just as much as girls don't. Guys aren't these unemotional beings that they're made out to be. Dating takes its toll on them too. And they're definitely not out there looking for ways to hurt girls. They would do anything to make it easier for them, if they could.

I don't think guys are perfect. There's a lot that the system can help with these issues and there are areas where guys just need to grow up. But then again, no one's perfect. Girls aren't perfect either. We're just not created that way. And if you're looking for that "perfect" date, give up. You're doomed for failure.

All those girls that are looking for such "authentic" things in a guy need to take a look in the mirror. Most of the guys dating are in their early 20s and to expect them to match even half of those criteria is ludicrous. That list is daunting! How many girls match those criteria? Let's stop using double standards.

After reading the article and the inevitable slew of comments, I believe that's where the problem lies. There seems to be a deep underlying notion that the guys are the problem. Take a look at the comments. Not much surprises me, but some of those comments are shocking.

Trying to answer the "shidduch question" is ridiculous. There isn't an answer. It doesn't exist. We shouldn't be wasting our time looking for one. Instead, we should be working together to try find solutions that make it easier for all involved. Blaming the guys definitely isn't going to help.

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Opinions and Comments
Risa Shapiro
I think what Mrs Toby Lieder's goal of her article was to ask the question
If everybody wants the same good qualities in a Shidduch then why isn't everyone getting engaged?
I think, her point was that basically everyone wants the same good things. There's "something" stopping shidduchim from happening
That was her point
That what is that "something" holding everyone back if they all want the same good things?
I personally think it's the mothers that are too picky and have too many filters and requirements that are disturbing the young ones from even dating each other!
If only the mothers let go of their insecurities and allow these kids to date each other without going through so many filters like example; oh! There's a kids that fried out in the family forget them, or oh! I heard the father doesn't have parnas a, forget them. ....
Reticulum filters out up by the mothers that are blocking the kids from having dates
let go
Go see a therapist to learn how to let go of your insecurities!
Why should the kids suffer?
(12/19/2015 6:13:44 AM)
Agreed 100%
I'm a bocher, and dating completely drained me.

Even when a shidduch doesn't work, when both sides are menshlech and caring, if for technical reason's it just can't go, irrelevant if the bocher is the one to say no, it hurts the bocher also, not just the girl, as the bocher has also invested tremendous energy into it. And aderaba, if the bocher is sensitive, the fact that the other person has gotten hurt, also pains him, as he feels bad to have hurt someone in the process. (al derech - vayire yakov meod, vayetzer lo - he was afraid that he would get hurt, and he was pained that he might hurt someone else - see Rashi on Bereishis 32:8).

Any bocher who is a mensch and sensitive, feels terrible if a girl is hurt because he can't go through with it.
(12/19/2015 8:01:17 AM)
Thank you.
At the time when the article you referred to was posted, my response was exactly that which you have written.

The one thing I would have written differently is, instead of "blaming guys doesn't help" I would've emphasized "it makes things worse".

Girls, look hard into the mirror.
(12/19/2015 1:17:33 PM)
A single girl
Right there with you and agree with you
No good can come of it. I do believe that if we all were more open minded things would be smoother and less painful
(12/19/2015 6:35:39 PM)
I love these articles!
Comments, start coming in! We love you!!
(12/19/2015 6:50:51 PM)
Number 2
Is for sure a bochur! No faking there with "aderabe" and sources etc. What is a hailike bochur like you doing on the Internet? ;)
(12/19/2015 6:54:14 PM)
haha i love bochurlingo
Go watch manis friedmans shiurim, go daven and learn, if you're at that stage in ur life, figure out how to make a parnassah and keep on having the bitachon ur having. theres no CRISIS. Theres just you, your soulmate, and Hashem.
Ive been in shidduchim for two years now and seriously, after your third guy you learn to not let yourself "get hurt".
(12/19/2015 6:55:15 PM)
COL & current n future authors:

From advertising we learn that everything we see [read] can affect us. The hint of the language we use can make the difference between advertising positive wording and phrases, not the opposite. Also when the message opposes the language {as in the title above} wording and phraseology promotes, even creates concepts;
livens them, if you will.

Create good language.

Good Week.
(12/19/2015 6:58:12 PM)
Double Thank You!
Thank you Mr Anonymous for putting words to what we Bocherim feel.

When the above-mentioned article titled "What Single Women Look For" had posted, my sentiments from the article had been nothing short of disheartening, feeling myself as a bocher being judged quite unfavorably, and in fact, attacked; with the veiled yet implied intimation that the bocherim are the only ones who ought to get their priorities straight from their current misplaced state, whilst the girls have themselves and their values all figured out, and their principles in order.

Instead of all the finger-pointing, usually done by people who are partial to the situation (i.e., Shadchanim, parents, etc.), I'd highly suggest that both parties; the girls' and the boys', look inside THEMSELVES in introspection, and find inside the things which THEY value and find important, and the things which THEY ought to improve themselves in, and after the little "avoda" and with the help of Hashem and his helpers down here, one can hope for and Im Yirtzeh Hashem find, their destined soul mate.

(12/19/2015 6:59:58 PM)
I believe it is all about respect
If each side has respect for the other and displays this respect, in the way they date, in the way they communicate and the places they go, everyone will be better off.
I have heard of guys taking girls to downright dumps! I have heard of girls dating with dirty shoes, and dirty hair.
I have known of both guys and girls being so cynical and burnt out with dating that they just stop trying their best, to reveal their best.
Dating can be frustrating, nerve wracking and stressful.However, If each side puts their best self forward, giving each prospect all they can, then things stand a chance. Once someone gives up, either physically, emotionally or otherwise, the odds of making a good impression and moving forward, positively, go way down.
Each person needs to respect themselves and the person they are meeting. This means, take time to look your best. Take time to select a decent, quiet place to meet. Take time to plan the date so it goes smoothly as possible. And most of all, go out with the hope that Hashem will guide you to the right person at the right time in the right way.
Dating is stressful for both sides. The fact that both of you agree to meet, says that both of you want to find the right partner.
Wishing every 'single' the true and right 'bashert' NOW!
A Mom
(12/19/2015 7:10:08 PM)
Agreeing the mothers are. A BIG part of the problem....
Many mothers have their own agenda regArding what they're looking for on behalf of their son.... Agreed, having diversity In levels of yiddishkeit among the siblings is NOT a reflection on upbringing or the child being suggested for a Shidduch (we need look no farther than our Torah shel Emes to wonder where Yaacov w/b be had he been judged by his sibling, Esav!)
(12/19/2015 7:16:47 PM)
Not so simple
What I have found and observed(although not a scientific project)is that girls are still willing to overlook certain things if the guy has good qualities.However, regardless of how wonderful a girl is,heaven forbid her wt is a bit up or she is not quite the beauty he was expecting...but no one-not a single bochur is willing to come clean. He could have a perfectly great date but somehow his ideal image did not present to his expectation and he will find an easy solution-oh it's just not a match-no reason given.You will not have a guy brave enough to say it so I'll do it for them.Yes,girls will overlook the weight,the hair, etc etc because they can see something else in the person.Oh of course they hurt for the girl too!Suuuure.Crying all the way to the "next"one in line for inspection.So tired of all this.Anyone willing to be a little honest???
(12/19/2015 7:24:06 PM)
True story about a mother
An extremely wealthy mother, with an older (very modern) daughter, felt that no boy was worthy of her only girl. At age 27, the girl was interested in the branch manager of a bank, and the mother said, "Oh, he's not an investment banker?" and the girl dropped the idea. Finally the mother ended up in therapy for some reason. Voila -- a year later the girl was engaged: to a sweet, nice guy with a regular 9-5 job, who treats the girl with great kindness. (Previously, the girl had had a pattern of being involved with several guys who weren't kind to her.) They were married within two months of the engagement and B"H everyone is happy KAH. Knowing the mother, I happen to think that the therapist helped the woman get her priorities straight, thank G-d. Parents: if you're saying no to nearly every potential spouse for your child, maybe it's time for a reality check with a qualified professional. I wish every single marriage-ready guy and girl a fantastic shidduch ASAP.
(12/19/2015 7:45:12 PM)
Simmon Avos
Imagine if a mother heard from a Shadchan about a young man whose father is a Rebbe and a Gadol HaDor, and his brother is following in the Rebbes footstep to be the next Gadol HaDor, and there are no other siblings, and the father's father was also a Rebbe and Gadol HaDor.
If the mother would jump at it, and tell the Shadchan "Yes!", then she just got a Shidduch with Esav!
Now imagine further if the Shadchan came up with proposal for a guy, about an aidel woman with trememdous qualities, but is a gioress and was married before converting, and this guy listened to all the well meaning advice like "She's a great woman, but not for someone from a yichusdige wonderful family like you, she should find someone like she is.
Well. It's a good thing that Boaz didn't listen, or the entire Bais Dovid, including all the Rebbeim of Chabad, would not have been...
The parents and other well meaning mixer inners, should consider primarily if the "couple" would be good together, and then let them meet and find out.
(12/19/2015 7:45:47 PM)
Honesty needed
'Oh, what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to deceive'. Walter Scott.
(12/19/2015 7:53:47 PM)
mothers step back
my son was ready to get married, and I did some reasonable research on the girl, he looked at the picture, and said ok..they went out, and he liked her, and before getting engaged we met her and was shocked that she did not look like her picture and was otherwise not so attractive. we we ready to call off the engagement, but my son insisted that he saw really good things in her, and reluctantly we proceeded with the engagment and marriage. post script, they are married four years with two kids, and couldnt be happier or more in love. This taught me such a valuable lesson, that I had intervened and stuck my nose in..he might not be married now, or unhappy with his spouse. Sometimes, as parents we have to let go, and let adult children make up their mind, if not they will forever blame you for the unhappiness YOU caused.
(12/19/2015 8:24:03 PM)
Oh the bochur hurts when the girl gets hurt-please let me get the violin to play!!!!!Yes, boys are superficial and immature.Grow up and man up already.
(12/19/2015 8:54:57 PM)
Guys are more feminine these days
So I've been involved in making shiddichim got many years now, and what I see has been a serious issue in recent years is that guys are more feminine and girls more masculine. This poses a great problem since girls say "they want a man" and boys say "they want a woman" so both sides are disappointed since both genders are not what they used to be. I think girls have to start being realistic and accepting the fact that their husband is not the man their father or grandfather is: there harder to come by these days. I think it's harder for the guys to accept marrying a more masculine wife, in my opinion it's more difficult to face. I'm not saying it's the only problem today, but it's one I hear about pretty often.
(12/19/2015 8:56:44 PM)
A Meaningful life!
Stop the blaming on either side and take responsibility for your action, stop the victim mentality,
it could be challenging and no one likes when things don't allways go there way, just get used to it thats life.

Bring some meaning purpose in to your life don't wait for this person that's gona save you, do some thing meaningful enjoy your life as is and more blessing will come.

Remember marriage does not save a person it enhances who they are.(if done right)

(12/19/2015 9:23:53 PM)
Sexism is also when women lambast, stereotype and paint all men with a wide brush. It's a two way street darling
(12/19/2015 9:29:38 PM)
Girls have no toichen.
Girls are superficial.
Girls have no derher.
Girls aren't really chassidish
and the list goes on
(12/19/2015 9:37:54 PM)
Totally a guy problem
It's totally a guy problem. If the ratio of guys to girls 1 to 7 guy to girl, why is it that there are so many single 27-35 year old guys? What's their excuse? Many of them are supposedly great guys. I've met them. Many of them aren't. Anymore at least. They become lame as if someone sucked the air out of them. The only possible reason I can think of is this: g-d said about Adam 'it's not good for man to be alone' and I don't think it was meant in the physical sense. I believe it's more emotional than anything. These guys start to phase out once they get passed their prime 21-25/26.
Although no ones perfect I know most girls my age (28-30) are more than willing to just marry almost anyone as long as the basics are there. But these 'run of the mill' guys our age are totally not in the same boat. They are looking for miss perfect (wtvr picture they have in thier mind - blond hair size 2, cute, fun, capable, but not too capable girl) and just cannot 'settle'. There we go. Whose problem? Not mine. Sorry. We put ourselves out there like it's nobody's business but are met with 'sorry, not the background I'm looking for' like seriously?? How gezh do u want me to be already? Your 30 flippin years old, if there's not red flag just go out!
(12/19/2015 9:46:24 PM)
Single girl to Number 17
U are right.. Author thank you for sharing
(12/19/2015 9:50:00 PM)
Chabad has failed the boys! Period
Say it, it's the truth and everyone knows it. The chinuch the bochrim have received from the broken educational system, has failed them no end. They are totally lost regarding parnossa, way behind the eight ball when it comes to applying to school and have no hadrocha and guidance from their parents and mashpiyim. They are maamish lost and have no idea how to be men and provide for a wife and family and simply do not have the maturity and sophistication that the girls have.

Entire system needs an overhaul urgently.
(12/19/2015 9:51:11 PM)
Pathetic. It's not appropriate even as a joke.
(12/19/2015 10:00:50 PM)
single female
dating can be extremely draining, emotionly and physically. If only parents would be less picky, who cares if you've got all the money in the world, can money buy a young couple true happiness can it buy them real genuine kindness amongst one another can it buy them shalom bayis?! Saying no to an offer because family isn't blessed with parnassah is such a shame! Shame on people who prevent beautiful shidduchim from happening due to lack of money, set ur priorities straight, is it money or true nachas that you want as your end result? !
(12/19/2015 10:14:55 PM)
to #21
that is pretty insulting. think before you write.
(12/19/2015 10:22:40 PM)
i have a confession to make
i didnt like the last guy i dated.
i was told to go out a second time.
im considered physically attractive.
i know when i dress up i can sell myself well.
think i chose to dress up for this boy?
absolutely not.
good riddance.
(12/19/2015 10:24:08 PM)
I'm really glad you wrote your story for all to see how some parents can be way off with the needs of their kids. Your son liked the girl and you were trying to get him to call it off because she wasn't this perfect looking girl. Parents, ask this very simple question is the girl or bocher a good person? will they make my kid happy? If the answer is yes, give them your blessing and move on. you're not the one getting married your kids are.
(12/19/2015 10:30:29 PM)
I'm a married man who dated for 13 years. I read every comment and only your comment made me feel I need to comment.

Not one comment above came close to your horrible post. Please stop dating if your single and don't hurt any guy with your hate and harshness. Go see a therapist and learn how to be positive and ready for marriage.

I'm writing this out of caring for you and want you to one day be happy but your from from that point now.

Wishing you luck and success

(12/19/2015 10:49:08 PM)
****** Bottom Line Is ******
If we followed the Toirahdiker style,
the good ol fashioned what worked for our bubbys and zaidys style we would be alot more better off today
Like it says in the good books
What happened to good ol fashioned values?
I remember one relative that had 10 kids to marry off said
I look for just 2 things for my kids for shidduchim
kindness and yiras shomayim
And she did very well
lets go back to the basics

(12/19/2015 11:45:32 PM)
To #26
Thank you for publishing , Parents read this, well written and straight to the target! WHAT ARE YOUR PRIORITIES IN LIFE! Well said!
(12/19/2015 11:56:31 PM)
to #30
You dated for 13 yrs and found ur match.ok very good.Now what exactly did u read into #17 that is so repulsive to you?Did it perhaps strike a chord?Were you one of those serial daters?Do you honestly think a guy who dumps a girl is hurting for her?Are you that naive or gullible or just had a lot of experience doing that to others?Maybe you are the one who needed therapy to sort out your personal issues and demons.There was no hate in that message.
(12/20/2015 12:23:15 AM)
To #17 and #23
This is the author of #2. I am proud to say that I am a chassidishe bocher, and number one priority of being a chassidishe bocher is being sensitive, being a mensch, and feeling for another person. I don't have a mokor, but I remember once hearing that the Rebbe said, that the Even Habochen (determining factor) of a person's chassidishkeit is their sholom bayis. I.e. if they can be a mensch. And this starts already when a person is dating, that they take into account the feelings of the person they are dating, and are sensitive to them. Maybe we are hard to find, but believe it or not, there are bocherim who really care about others, and ahavas yisroel applies also to the person you are dating. In fact being that I hurt them, I daven for them, and mention them at the Ohel, for a yeshuah and besuros tovois.
(12/20/2015 1:17:29 AM)
To #6
I'm on the internet to defend the bocherim, and to make it clear that there are sensitive and mature bocherim out there, who look out for others and are menschlech, when a situation doesn't work.
(12/20/2015 1:22:22 AM)
Look in the mirror if you got one ♡
The only way the so called "crisis" can be fixed,is when everyone starts fixing themselves instead of others.
(12/20/2015 1:48:16 AM)
I Beg all the commenters
Please keep your Posts to no more then 5 lines, It is late, I am tired I still have to learn 3 perokim.
Thanks ever so much
(12/20/2015 2:44:58 AM)
#24 woohoo so so true
Well said! Chabad has totally failed the Bochurims education system. I say it becasue I went through it and let me tell you, it gets you know where, the amount of time you waste in Yeshiva not becasue you aren't interested or your busy having a good time doing other stuff, its becasue the system of sitting in a ZAL not knowing how to learn on your own with zero help, and zero interest in your teacher trying to help you learn is what happens in about every Yeshiva with about 35-49% of the Yeshiva bochrim, and that's including the big yeshivas out there that think they are doing a wonderful job.
Let me tell you, you're wrong for taking tuition and giving us a bad education.
We don't learn how to support a family, basics about life, basics about what these girls want from us when we start dating or how to even have a conversation with a girl becasue G-d forbid we should ever speak to a girl.
I look forward to these articles thank you.
(12/20/2015 2:55:36 AM)
Love, Respect, Unity.
B"h, Chabad is in a amazing place, and hands up for everyone that are posting about working on thy self :) what i men't about chabad was that we're learning how to figure things out are selfs [collectively and individually] so wheres the crisis?
i feel it's a lot by bocherim and girls that from a early teenage age how we're "going through the system". i as a bocher can say my side.
you come into misivta and then zal and the "in" thing is not to be "CHASIDISH" and why for the most part a lot [not all] of mashpi'em and the chsidish crew in a lot [again not all] yeshivas are somthing better known as IBER'TOYT or self righteous you can call it. so since there the one's with books held high we push it all away under the name "CHASIDISH" instead of taking the good out of the bad.
Now how will this help the shiduch crisis? if a girl or boy will go through high school/yeshiva with real life goals and accomplishments in mind and reviling his or her own natural talents and ability's when the next part comes shiduchim god willing things will go smooth, but even then things will probably go a bit harsh were talking about taking two souls and putting them together. crazy na.
and hold the books high and proud isn't that the message of ha'y tev'es. and then take you're Shtus and turn it into ShtusDkidusha yud shvat and hakel message get you're self together! shape up! and be the spouse you want to have.
A chosid is a person that wakes up and thinks about what he can change in his / her life and the world!!! #MoshiachNow
(12/20/2015 3:33:42 AM)
A tale of two sisters
I was getting older , dated all types , married the one that was kind and had the right haskofa , did the system , but dirt poor and baggage.
My sister married the guy of my dreams , handsome , wealthy family , athletic , frum , kind etc.

Fast forward 15 years , my life is hard ,hers a lot easier , we have struggled parnosa , moved around a lot ,with alot of nisyoniois ...
Her life easier , house , family business , vacations etc .
Who's happier ?
Exactly the same .
We talk every day. She has her struggles , I have mine . The sun shines here today , the next day by her . We count our blessings together , we moan about our issues together . It really doesn't depend on who you marry . It doesn't depend on how much you have .

We are not the same person at 20 that we were 10 so we won't be the same at 30 like we were at 20 so it's really stupid to marry someone based on what they look like now, what they are doing , what they want , because dynamics change .
Look for someone who is kind , yiras shomayim , wanting to grow spiritually , emothionally and has a positive outlook .
I'm a person so sometimes I'm happy and sometimes I'm not ... The good days a re great and the Bad days I have to put more effort and then they get great too.
My sister is in the phone , She helps me , I help her , we moan we laugh and put down the phone to face our challenges and when I will speak to her later she will thank me and tell me she's having a great day , as I am too!
Point being , there's more to a marriage then just the guy to make a person happy ... A little too much pressure on a husband/wife ... That they will fulfill you completely. Keep this in mind when u are dating ... And be prepared to give up afew things on your wish list and get it from someone else around you.
(12/20/2015 4:15:14 AM)
To #40
Awesome comment, thank you for the perspective. And Kol hacavod for having such a close relationship with your sis. I'm guessing it effects your shalom bay is positively as well.
(12/20/2015 8:25:52 AM)
To #40
The article was worth it just for your comment
(12/20/2015 10:25:06 AM)
Very real ! Authentic post!
You can be happy if you decide to be it
Everything is in your mindset You need a lot of learning clarity and energy to transcend and transform your environment
(12/20/2015 11:24:31 AM)
to #27
The reason this comment bothers you so much, and it would not bother you if the word girls was replaced by boys, is very simple.
We all know the basic code of society.

Men are to be accountable. Women are not.
Because Men have more emotional strength to take pain compared to women.

This is a lie, and it hurts every man.
Bochrim, men are VERY emotional.
We are just as well experts at hiding it, because we know we will be judged as unworthy if we expose our nature.

The truth is, when it comes to marriage, men are naturally much more loving than the woman.

#21 can be a normal man. Men have strong feelings of resentment towards women because we are blamed for being selfish when in the long run, the man gives while the woman takes.
(12/20/2015 11:59:02 AM)
@17 and 33 (probably the same person )
I would be glad to talk on the phone instead of people posting a few lines and not giving thier names.

I'm s real person with real life experiences and more then glad to talk on the phone. I'm not and in sure you are not the person it comes across in our short writing post.

And anyone else who would benefit from talking to someone who dated seriously and continuously for 13 years.


(12/20/2015 11:59:36 AM)
To #21
We read chasidisher derher!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(12/20/2015 12:54:21 PM)
@ 45 Missed my phone number above
(12/20/2015 1:06:27 PM)
@ 17
Text me as you did not leave a phone number

(12/20/2015 1:45:02 PM)
the ikkar
both sides have very high expectations, and you can't expect to find the perfect match that meets all your dream expectations. marriage is about building a life together, and giving to your spouse what they don't have, complimenting eachothers maalos and chesronos. you need to keep in mind it's nice to be chasidish, but it's more chasidish to be nice. at the end of the day, people just want to marry a mentch.
(12/20/2015 2:42:53 PM)
it's the education system's fault
why are our girls and bochurim not learning proper life skills? of course bochurim aren't financially stable, they have no idea how to use money because all they know how to do is learn gemara. they haven't had experience in the real world yet, they're in a sheltered yeshiva enviroment. how do you expect a boy to know what to expect in a girl if he's never seen one before and has to avoid them in the supermarket. instead of avoiding the world, we need to learn to deal with it.
(12/20/2015 2:47:14 PM)
To the author:
I think from some of these comments, it's pretty clear where the problem lies. PEOPLE: There are crazy boys, there are crazy girls. They just need to find each other in the comment section on this site. Seems to be working great so far. Call me.
(12/20/2015 3:17:46 PM)
From #40
Thank you for the lovely responses to my comment .
To number 41 , indeed it does add to my sholom bayis. I would like to add that I went into marriage using my head , ( It annoys me to hear people turning someone good down because their heart isn't in it... That comes AFTER marraige !) BH I used my head because the way my life has turned out , my ' wish list ' wouldn't have helped me anything! my husband is my best friend, my security ,we laugh through all our challenges and we DECIDED to have a good marriage . Hashem knew what I needed more then I did and I can't thank Him enough for the wonderful man I'm married to!
(12/20/2015 4:44:45 PM)
There is a fascinating and informative letter from the Rebbe which is on practical dating advice.
The rebbe says:
1) One of the most important qualities is that a person should be trustworthy- so he can be relied upon in keeping the promises of establishing a binyei adei ad.
2) Its impossible to know a person until you get married; however, it is possible to find out about his family background, his upbringing and education, and his general conduct in the daily life.
3) The Rebbe encouraged people looking for a Shidduch to be careful about giving a bit of money to charity daily, as saying daily Torah portions
This is food for thought- to give people going on dates a more positive and objective view of the dating scene of Lubavitch.
(12/20/2015 4:49:07 PM)
Sure, its easy to blame the education system, the parents, the bochurim, the girls, but it wont help anyone. Everyone just needs to grow up and get a life! Like #21. You are most probably not a self-hating girl, so assuming you're a boy, how would you know?! How could you say that? If you know every girl that well, it's you who has the problem!
(12/20/2015 4:56:13 PM)
# 34
You're amazing! I'm proud that you're part of Chabad.
Keep it up:)!
(12/20/2015 5:37:07 PM)
# 39
You go! thank you for bringing such a positive twist!
(12/20/2015 5:39:07 PM)
Hey guysss
Do u have a shidduch for me instead of wasting ur time ?
(12/20/2015 6:58:40 PM)
je suis golem!
I am married about 10 years, and from time to time i think about the months i spent dating, this was definitely the most vulnerable time of my life.

I had no idea how i was going to feed a family as i was just a Golem out of yeshiva my date was working already for 3 years, i was also immature my date was mature, i had no world experience my date seemed more worldly and balanced.


Today, i work 12-18 hours a day and make a very comfortable living b"h my wife does not need to work, Today, i have a lot business experience and i am unfortunately TOO mature, Today, i need to travel a lot for work and so i am the "worldly and balanced" one.

Do i tell my wife now that i am more responsible then her? more "mature" then her? more "balanced" then her?


Its going to be the guy thats going to do the all nighters at work to get the mortgage paid, he wont sleep nights, he will come home from work and faint.

your meeting us when were at our most vulnerable time of our life.
(12/20/2015 7:41:39 PM)
look #30
It is not that serious. Don't read into everything and take it so seriously.Everyone responds based on what they have experienced and certainly those who are rejected on both sides will have some scars and a wounded ego.However, no one is going to be tortured by letting someone go.If they have to let a person go for various reasons, they will not lose sleep because they have hurt someone.Everyone is going to get hurt in life in some way by someone.The point is to move on and not think this was the only one for me-men and women are like buses.There's always another one every hour.Don't flatter yourself.Most men and women will not spend their days pining for you.Just a fact of life.People always move on if they have a healthy outlook.
(12/20/2015 9:01:51 PM)
Real life
I agree with the author that bashing the guys doesnt help the situation. At the same time, I believe it must be stressed that education is the key, and parents must be willing to accept the fact that if their precious yingele or maidele is old enough to get married then they perforce are ready to make their own decisions with regards to said marriage. I feel Frum young adults are under way too much pressure from parents and peers about when and to whom to get married. People should be allowed to say no to a shidduch suggestion if they themselves feel as of yet unready to date. In my own community I have heard too many stories of late of marriages breaking u after a just a couple of months. Sometimes the focus of shidudch dating is dictated by parents who are just interested in showing off a fancy wedding to their friends and that becomes the focus of the young couple, rather than actually working on their relationship.

I agree with #14 about how our current shameful behaviour in regards to shidduchim offends many of our Biblical ancestors and completely misses the mark of what the Torah is trying to teach us. I have written about this several time in COL comments. I also believe that appropriate education about relationships and marriage should be provided to Bochurim well before the age of Smicha (21/22). I remember when I finished my Smicha year, we had a shiur from our Rosh Yeshiva and his Rebbetzin about dating and when I sked a particular question about the reaction of girls, they both laughed and said I didnt understand the difference between boys and girls. While I respected both of them greatly, I felt slighted that they laughed at me simply for doing the right thing and not interacting with girls throughout my adolescent life. Why does marriage have to be a taboo subject until you are old enough to begin dating? I think if Yeshivas and Seminaries educate their students about the importance of a Torah-based marriage in a kosher manner it would help solve many of the issues discussed here. Marriage can then be perceived by young men and women as something normal and wonderful, rather than elusive and foreign We also need to embrace a change in our unfortunate self-created culture of prioritising the externalities (money, stature, appearance, yichus) when dealing with shidduchim. Its so ironic that this is the status quo, given the major focus in Chassidic texts on negating the chitzonius and rather valuing the penimius.
(12/20/2015 9:37:59 PM)
To #52
Touching and reassuring! Thank you.
(12/20/2015 11:00:24 PM)
to #6
maybe he's not on the "internet" with all that the word connotes; maybe he's reading col as a way of unwinding without hanging out at 2;00 a.m. smoking cigarettes.
you, commenter #6, come across as one heck of a derogatory person. BTW, if you judge being on the site so offensive, what are YOU doing on it?
(12/21/2015 12:16:15 PM)
To #62
it was obvious that #6 was joking and it actually made me laugh to read it.
(12/21/2015 9:13:50 PM)
which school do you go to that you read chassidishe derher?
I think its not enough to read it you should also be tested on it. like once a month.. particularly. derheren the derher. :) ;)
Good job for pointing out that very crucial point.
Some girls do read chassidishe derher so it's not nice to make such dramatic statements, #46.
(12/22/2015 12:33:10 AM)
Way to go #58 and others!...Here's a yeshiva bochur, who did what he was supposed to prepare himself for marriage-sit and learn Torah- increasingly heighten his Yiras Shomayim, Learning and Middos Tovos to be moral, wise and caring husband, not to mention securing Hashem's brochos as payback in this world for his family. Suddenly, he's the wealthy and worldly traveler paying a mortgage on his home B"H. There is no way that learning Torah can adversely affect a person or his future. Comments against "the system", the Rebbeim's system, are ignorant/unwise at best and playing with fire at worst...
(12/23/2015 10:31:34 PM)
Number 65
Same here ... Doing great BH BECAUSE of the system!!
(12/24/2015 5:59:00 AM)
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