Dec 28, 2011
I'm Finding My Own Shidduch

Shidduchim SOS: "I've lived in Crown Heights for seven years, and was set up once a year with another mismatched shidduch, by people who barely knew me."

By Tzippy N.

I've lived in Crown Heights for seven years, during which time I was set up with six different guys. None were potentially for me. The first had his life all mapped out and just needed a wife to complete his picture; a woman who knew both of us just vaguely suggested the shidduch.

The second had a vision of marriage that was completely opposite what I was looking for; he saw me frequent the shop where he works and his cousin who vaguely knew me pushed for the shidduch to happen.

I dated about one guy a year, since moving to Crown Heights, all suggested by well-intentioned people who barely knew me. The last straw was the sixth guy. A shidduch made between two women, the guy’s sister and a woman who knew me vaguely, and they knew each other only vaguely. Worst date ever. He didn't care about Yiddishkeit and he had a visible disability. Both were issues my mother had specifically asked his friends about, at my request. And both issues, we were told, were non-existent. I came home and burst into tears. The disability isn't what threw me. What threw me was that I'd been duped into going out with this guy. I felt tricked. As far as I was concerned, from that moment forward I was only doing phone-call first-dates or non-committal-coffee first-dates. I was fed up with being set up by people who hardly knew me.

Boruch Hashem, I have some very special, good friends. But even my close friends and friendlies haven’t had much luck at setting me up. Over the years, they dabbled in the matchmaking, but the guys were all busy at the time or their families said "no thanks" and that was it. Few suggestions were brought forward. Shadchanim almost never called me back. And my mother wasn’t having any success either.

It was time for me to take things into my own hands. I started attending events and Shabbatons for 25+ aged singles. The events were fun for the most part, but it was also disappointing to be in that category. I had tons of friends, but in this department I felt like I was going it alone.

I started keeping an eye out for good guys and then looking into them on my own. It never got very far. Two friends each suggested someone, but it didn’t go anywhere. When I would shyly ask if they had any ideas, people would tell me, "You're always on my mind, I just don't know anyone for you." I didn’t expect my friends to spend time helping me find a shidduch; understandably, they have very busy lives.

So one day I took matters into my hands even further. I met Daniel*, a divorced, frum 30-year-old Lubavitcher, at a work thing and we started chatting. Thinking that perhaps he had enjoyed our conversation as much as I had, I gave my number to a mutual acquaintance and asked him to pass it along so that Daniel could call me if he wanted to.

And he did. He called, and we talked and talked and talked...for hours, until we couldn't keep our eyes open any longer. The following day we went for coffee and then rode the elevator to our respective offices together. We took the train home together after work that day.

The next day, Daniel called and officially asked me out. I have to tell you that when I decided to give him my number, I didn't know any of the things typically listed on our "shidduch profiles." I knew that our personalities jived and that we enjoyed each other's company. I didn't have high expectations; I just didn't want the usual run-around that I was used to by using the conventional, frum methods.

I had a lot of thinking to do. After panicking and thinking everything through bit by bit for many hours, I made my decision. Daniel isn't exactly the type of "shidduch profile" anyone would have set me up with—friend, friendly, or vague acquaintance. He is divorced and barely made it through school. He smokes. On paper, our criteria don't match. And frankly, if we eventually decide to tie the knot and people hear about the engagement, there will be shock and disbelief. But that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that Hashem has been orchestrating my entire life all this time. None of the previous guys I dated were right for me because, perhaps, Daniel is right for me. My parents won't be thrilled at first, but when they meet him they will see what I see in him—a genuine person who is so close to the Aibishter, who cares deeply for the people in his life, and is an honest and confident man.

I am making a resolution right now. My resolution is that I will not let a single week go by without spending at least 20 minutes trying to find matches for my friends and the people I know. As wrapped up in my life as I may become, I will not forget what it's like to fend for myself. I will always keep my friends in mind and go out of my way to help them.

I've thought about the things that don't match up so perfectly on paper about Daniel and me. And I've decided that hashgacha pratis brought us to where we are right now. Hashem is leading the way, so there is nothing for me to be afraid of. Instead, I am committing to giving my all to our first date and every date afterward, if G-d chooses it to be so.

Here's to wishing and blessing every married Jew with shalom bayis and everything necessary to be happy and healthy in this world. And here's to wishing and blessing every single Jew with the confidence, clarity, and emunas Hashem to navigate the uncertain and emotionally tolling dating process.

Hatzlacha rabba.

*Names have been changed to protect identities

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someone who suggests that thinking out of the box is GOOD....

let's hear it everyone.........nobody is off limits when it comes to shidduchim...
(12/28/2011 8:53:35 PM)
Thank you!
Thank you for posting this.
I have been living in Crown Heights for 5 years and not been set up EVEN ONCE!
I wish I had a way to meet guys on my own like you did.
(12/28/2011 9:01:45 PM)
I know there is go ing to be a lot of bashing...
I'm just waiting for all the commenters to come out of the woodworks to bash this writer and oy gevalt how far we have strayed from the holy shidduch ways of our ancestors. And to all those bashers, I just want to remind you that this writer had tried that approach and that process for SEVEN YEARS with nothing to show for it. If you want to be holy and insist that women and men should only meet when set up by a 3rd party and only after "research" which consists of asking lists of irrelevant questions, gezunterheit, live your own life that way but not on the cheshbon of our lonely singles.
(12/28/2011 9:03:45 PM)
I feel for you...
but its not always like that, maybe try to call some of his friends.
(12/28/2011 9:04:56 PM)
gr8 story
i like open minded ppl , new ideas , new ways , every1 is happy, especially when it works , i can,t imagine any1 against it...
(12/28/2011 9:17:49 PM)
There is no solution :(
As a 25 year old single, I unfortunately am having the same difficulties getting shidduch suggestions - we all are.

While the current system no longer works at all, there is no realistic alternative. You met Daniel through a random work event, but the rest of us have no tznius way to meet girls/boys ourselves.

There are singles events, but we all know that unfortunately they have a certain "nebach" stigma attached to them.

It's all very sad. May all singles find their basherts soon!
(12/28/2011 9:27:32 PM)
Hope there's a happy ending, praying for you
(12/28/2011 9:31:36 PM)
I envy your mother....
at a certain point, the girls have to grow up and find their own guy. It doesn't have to be meeting someone in an elevator BUT maybe the girls have to CONTRIBUTE to the community, smile at people in the street, say a good word, ask about the welfare of people you care about, offer to help with community events, visit an old age home, GIRLS, SHOW UP IN YOUR OWN LIVES!!!!!!! Trust me, someone will notice and a giving person, caring kind and thoughtful doens't go unnoticed and it is oh so very attractive!!!!!!!
(12/28/2011 9:38:58 PM)
All the best
There is nothing wrong with your choice, after all, everyone must look out for their selves. I was actually a little confused by your nice hachlata to try to make shiduchim for friends, since you explained very well how difficult it is to make someone elses shidduch. I would think that you would give your friends opportunities to meet guys instead of you deciding to choose for them.

Also, the one advantage that you loose by meeting someone the natural way is that it's really hard to get to know the real person since everyone is on their best behavior during dating. The non-frum/Jewish world deals with this issue by dating for a long time so that by then they hope they've gotten the real picture. If that is not doable or practical I would recommend doing some basic background check. As much as you want to trust yourself and your new found best friend, in the words of the great Ronald Ragen "trust but verify".

(12/28/2011 10:17:32 PM)
great article
(12/28/2011 10:21:34 PM)
you don't know about the skeletons in his closet...
(12/28/2011 10:29:07 PM)
To Dangerous
True you don't know about the "skeletons in the closet" but I believe that you're no safer with a shadchan. Those days are over.

It used to be that everyone knew everyone. It's no longer the case. I would argue that you may even be safer WITHOUT a shandchan. With a shadchan you expect that they find out these things for you and you trust them. Little do you know that they don't do any of that work for you. When you make you're own shiduch you know what you don't know and, so long as you're responsible, you can go ahead and do the research that you need to do.
(12/28/2011 10:37:26 PM)
hey #11
unless you plan on setting her up... dont ruin her the happiness that she created for herself.

thanks for writing this article
(12/28/2011 10:51:12 PM)
to the author
I'm so happy that you have found someone special. I hope it works out and you guys are happy for many many years to come.

I know this was not the point of the article, but i cant help but mention that you kinda contradicted yourself. The first you wrote, you said that people who barely knew you set you up with such out of the box matches. The second part, where you met Daniel, you say that on paper you guys are not whats the difference?
I think its a matter of clicking, whether you met thru a mutual person or on your own. Hatzlacha! I also love the fact that you are actively trying to help your friends. I'm a single girl in my late twenties and know exactly what you are talking about. I myself have made 2 shidduchim, if we don't help ourselves, who will??

to #11, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but even when you do all the research in the world, some "skeletons" will never be found till the couple is married.
(12/28/2011 10:53:28 PM)
to number 11:
Everyone has skeletons!!! It's either the devil you know or the devil you dont!
(12/28/2011 11:10:37 PM)
Think again
I would never have been born today. In fact my parents would never have met...
My father is a Russian refuge who spent his childhood on the run from Nazis and communists, My mother is American, college educated,(Maxwell house hagada etc) with no shaychus to Lubavitch.
The only thing that they had in common was that they were committed to living a frum life. My father would go off to 770 and my mother would go out with her friends. with time they created a home with the tzar gidul bonim etc that bound them together.
Please... remember a beard can always grow longer, and clothing can be changed...

The only question you need to answer is. Is the Boy/Girl shiduch a mentch.
If you can find a mentch.. then the mentch will let you do what is important to you. if the mentch lets you live your level of frumkayt, and you truly love it... they will follow your lead.

Trust me ... look at the half breed geze familys like mine.
With age all people grow beards and grow up
(12/28/2011 11:42:52 PM)
good for you...
Glad to hear things are working out. You deserve every happiness.
- fellow single girl
(12/28/2011 11:53:26 PM)
in the same boat...
I totally know what you mean. I've only been in Crown Heights for 2 years but I only got set up once since I got here.
My parents wanted me to move here for the "networking" and so that I would be "seen" by the right far not much has happened, but I'm still hopeful.
I'm not about to try and meet anyone on my own though... At least not yet.
(12/29/2011 12:36:17 AM)
Agree with #16
Very well said. I think if more people were more open minded, instead of saying no right away because they're waiting for Mr. perfect we wouldn't have so many older unmarried girls today.

It's happened so many times that people say no to a shidduch and a year or two later the name comes up again and they get married. Why not give every shidduch a chance.
(12/29/2011 12:58:46 AM)
You figured it out!!!! You have to be proactive to get anywhere in life!!!! It's time that all girls follow your lead. You may as well help yoursef because nobody is helping you and the kind of help that people are offering you is not the kind of help you want.
Once again, I am so proud that you took charge of the situation and made sure that u don't end up in the "single Pile" of girls that just sit around waiting for one day when the phone will ring.....
(12/29/2011 1:02:10 AM)
An older observer.
I read this from that perspective of someone who is in the business of marrying grandchildren (or, better said, going to their weddings.)

I read the comments, and I am saddened.

For years I have devoted very serious time to helping young people (usually it's the woman) and aching to solve the shidduch situation.

To read a girl's comment here, that she has been in the neighborhood for 5 years and has not been introduced to even one prospect, is to read the story as it is. It is not the fault of 'the system'. There never was a system. It was customary for some to make money as shadchanim, but they were always 'fringe' types who knew little about people bichlal, let alone the individuals they suggest. (Just listen to the words of the 'Matchmaker' song in the Fiddler.) It is immature to blame this on a system, and is seriously counterproductive for any community to eat away at its own self esteem.

So who's fault is it? The demographers. They placed a larger number of females into the mix than males. But, of course they are only counting the numbers which are there. Every girl (and parents) should face the fact (and, in the 'lingo' - get real.)

There is always someone left standing, when the music stops. Don't wait for the music to stop. Start young (18-19 for girls) and take care of yourselves and your daughters. Those girls seeking a career, or a few years 'to myself', they will be the ones who need to worry about the music - later - to much later. (My opinion is, that 2 years in seminary is a financial and social boondoggle. Even one year should become optional. Spend the money on shidduch hunting.)

In my family tree, I had 4 greatgrandfathers who married a second time (to single girls) after a post-natal death. It was a fact of life. Check your own tree - you may be surprised. That doesn't happen anymore B"H B"H. However, our lives are affected by the numneric results. [There is one choshuveh Rov who points out, that Rabenu Gershom's cherem also plays a role. In fact there were Sephardi poskim who lambasted the monogomy concept, calling it 'chukas hagoyim' which is assur.] It is not important how the numbers became what they are. It is important to know what they are, and to act in self interest, and in the interest of friends and family. (And be aware, that meeting 'a guy' in the elvator is not something new. Well elevators are. Minhag hagoyim has been like that for ages. And we know what their divorce rate was.)

In a perfect world, every girl would have a mashpiya (one who excels in ubderstanding human behavior etc, NOT someone who is well versed in dogma, and has a pat solution/answer for any and every thing.) And every meeting with a bochur should be discussed seriously. Even if you feel it's not for you, nevertheless take it seriously. Because of who sent this prospect. Not a shadchan, not a friend, but the Ribbono Shel Olam himself. Imagine that you are telling HIM why this is not for you. Do it with a mashpiya. Get your goals in life straight (and please don't giive me the glamour of 'shlichus'. If you do it for glamour it ... well...)

A story originally heard about the Chafetz Chayim (although it soes not fit his nature): He was passing the marketplace and a widow called hijm over distraught and yelling that some hooligans had tipped over her fruit and vegetable sales-cart. People were snatching up the goods and walkingt away. She was begging him to help her. His advice was" Az aleh chappen, chap du oych. If everyone is grabbing produce, you grab as much as you can. The facts are on the ground ('lol').

Don't waste time talking bout it, thinking about it. Become 'pro-active'. Doy ou have a list of bochurim? Do you have a cousin, nephew uncle, brothr's friend, or what, and keep pumping. Aske about this name on the list (make your own if you need to) or that name.

May Hashem bless you all with a partner in building a kosher family and life. Besuros tovos.
(12/29/2011 3:13:19 AM)
Does he have simchas hachayim?
Whatever thats supposed to mean....
(12/29/2011 4:48:49 AM)
I do hope the author will marry happily, but keep in mind she is writing this article BEFORE they have even had one official date! She may find he is not for her; they may never have a 2nd date, they may date 20 times and give it up. Before everyone congratulates her and decides to leap into the fray and make their own shidduchim.... remember that even this story is not yet over.
I know some older singles who had run through 'all' the available singles, who were 'on the shelf' - both boys and girls - and yet married wonderful spouses at the ripe age of 28. Through the shiddach system.
I think that just meeting someone randomly, finding them attractive or compatible and choosing them for a life partner can be a dangerous step. As someone commented above, all the secular world dates that way, and it doesn't turn out too well!
At least give the name to your parents/mashpia to check out.
(12/29/2011 8:14:25 AM)
your own fault
if you haven't been set up once...
no one is gonna do it for you, drive the shadchanim crazy
(12/29/2011 9:16:19 AM)
ch shul davener
u go to a certain ch shul there plenty guys and girls there!!!!
lots of shiduchim happened there!!!
(12/29/2011 9:49:39 AM)
Comment Twenty one
Thank you
(12/29/2011 9:51:22 AM)
Full Circle
I belive that "shidduch profiles" should only include essential questions.
How you want to raise children.
Is going to a shiur daily important to you.

It is funny that in the begining of the article she was complaining about the matches not fitting the profile and at the end that is exactly what she needed.

I am happy that this turned out well. Bitachon and open mindedness could really help the shidduch "scene" dramatically.
(12/29/2011 10:14:28 AM)
Looking for a husband? Wife?
So you have it all set up for YOUR life. Goals, plans, everything. Now all you need is a spouse.

Very poor recipe for marriage.

You have no clue what you want in life. Maybe a wife? Or a ring or band, on your hand, from a husband?

Very poor recipe for marriage.

A partner (co-director) in some shlichus in Yehupitz? Positive, yes. Common sense? No. If you are suitable for shlichus (rapidly becoming a field that can only support mushrooms - a fungus) then your spouse will fit in. Even if only to be a dugma chaya on a functional Jewish family. (It is amazing how many baalei teshuvah were attracted, even consciously, by that. Sheds light on why they have a tendency to sit for hours at the Shabbos table. Their 1st experience of a one hour meal as a family was soooo long, that they now tend to sit for as much as 3 or even 4 hours. Consider the effect on the kids.)

There is a purpose in life. For husband and wife. Fulfilling Ratzon HaBoreh Olam. Period. The first mitzva is still the first mitzva. And a mivtza does not replace a mitzva. The Rebbe always assumed "common sense" first. Perhaps he was dan lekaf zechus on chassidim a tad too kindly.
(12/29/2011 10:17:02 AM)
To 23
You said "As someone commented above, all the secular world dates that way, and it doesn't turn out too well!"

I didn't say it doesn't turn out well I think it does for many people. it's just not always practical in the frum world.
(12/29/2011 10:17:50 AM)
I fully understand where she's coming from, I've been there myself and yes I will prob end up 'finding my own' ITS ABOUT TIME THESE SO-CALLED SHADCHANIM GO AND GET A PROPER JOB THEN MAYBE THE DIVORSE RATE WITHIN COMMUNITIES WILL BE SLASHED MY 50%
(12/29/2011 10:53:36 AM)
they're both grown ups

dont know who u are but take it from a guy a who got married eons ago (staright up shidduch, first girl yada yada): ur a grown woman now and hes a grown man with some real life experience under his belt (unfortunately)...

by the time ur married married for as long as ive been (going on a decade), it will make no difference as to how u met or if u were set up or bumped into each other at work etc

bottom line is if you like each other and respect each other enough then: GET MARRIED

much success
(12/29/2011 10:53:49 AM)
something strange
I find this article puzzling. The author surely knows the concept of ayin hara (may Hashem protect her and all klal yisrael) and why would she be publicizing the fact that she met someone and is dating before she is even engaged? is this a cry for help? I wish her all the best and definitely Hashem has many ways to bring basherts together....the fact that they met without a shadchan is one of the ways. Not all shidduchim go through shadchanim. as long as they are conducted within the boundaries of tzniut it really does not matter if they meet without a shadchan, the only question is why is the author writing this article now? But we should hear only bsorot tovot for everyone. And definitely I think we all have to be more sensitive to the singles out there and think of creative ways to bring couples together.
(12/29/2011 10:54:18 AM)
(12/29/2011 11:02:24 AM)
good! now there is a voice that said matchmaking doesnt work
(12/29/2011 11:04:55 AM)
To author
I hope you find what you are looking for, wether its Daniel or someone else. Good luck!
(12/29/2011 11:13:33 AM)
to 23
who said it doesn't turn out too well because of the WAY they MEET?

Its doesn't turn out too well because they dont have HASHEM as a PARTNER.
(12/29/2011 11:22:41 AM)
Trust in Hashem
You can date and call and check and wait and date but you will never really get to know a guy till u live in the same house as him and he vice versa. There is a certain amount of background checking that needs to be done, a lot of davening but most of all trust in Hashem that he will guide you on the right path!
(12/29/2011 11:30:00 AM)
the writer in essence agrees with the 3rd party style
While I see the merits in your approach and I do not necessarily condone it, I think you are contradicting yourself.
To summarize your issue with the typical ‘shadchan’ method, you state two problem: (1) they vaguely knew you (or both of you), (2) they lied to you.
However, with your method, those problems still exists. You go to a single event, or bump into some one ‘where ever’, you still vaguely know the person at first, and you don’t know what they are lying about, etc. it all takes time to find out. So… what did you do? You went to find out… by talking to him… dating, etc… and saw if you are compatible or not. This is exactly what your third parties tried to do as well. They said, who cares how good we know the two of you, you both will go out, and find out for yourself. (as for the ‘lying’ part of shadchonim, that’s a problem. But again, when you do it on your own, the ‘guy’ could also be lying. You do research it, talk to him, and figure it out).
So you’re method doesn’t resolve the problem. You are only saying, you would rather find out for yourself if you should date, rather being advised. But in reality, there is no difference. Just a matter of ego, you get offended and blame the shadchan, when in reality you are doing the same things.. .you are tying things out to see if your are compatible (and you both ignore the profiles… which is exactly what your third part has been doing too).
So bottom line – this way isn’t necessarily ‘better’. Either way can work.
I’m not here to say what is the ‘correct’ way, I’m only saying practically they both equally work.
(I further feel you’re making a big issue of a ‘date’. As you write, you decided to first go out for coffee and then date. Well, the coffee is also a date. You’re playing with words. I think you should stop making a big fuss and issue of a ‘non-committal-coffee first-dates”. What’s a difference what you call it? I’m clueless what this means. It’s a ‘date’ bottom line.. Go… find out… doesn’t work out… next! The 3rd party tried what you want to try on your own… next!)
(12/29/2011 11:42:16 AM)
(12/29/2011 11:46:37 AM)
not so safe
you are dating now about of pure attraction.
the reason we do research ahead of time is to make sure your heart isnt broken after. if you follow your feelings and then find out something very hurtful- you will be broken and very hard to heal, and hopefully not already too late.
it is best to have the patience, look into him a bit on your own, ask him for refrences.. i dont suggest you get into a situation that will hurt you at this point in your life;

(12/29/2011 1:01:54 PM)
to #36 from #23
Good point, and ultimately Hashem is the deciding factor (and living a frum lifestyle).
But it is true that many relationships that begin based on a casual personal encounter and an 'attraction' are statistically not as sound as the overwhelming majority of relationships in the frum world (arranged by shaddchanim, friends, neighbours etc. not necessarily a traditional shaddchan). I think the attraction of a casual meeting can sometimes blur one's clear vision, and cause you to overlook serious flaws or character issues because you have begun to develop feelings that are based on an initial, somewhat superficial, attraction.
(12/29/2011 1:02:08 PM)
The number 1 issue is that girls give up on themselves and they start thinking out of the box in the wrong direction. For example, a friend of mine is a girl that went through the Lubavitch system, from a very chassidishe background and after dating a number of people started feeling down and out.

Eventually she decided to date someone that was barely frum for two years because she felt deparate. She was afraid to say "no - I dont feel it is the right match for me". She was being fed (by herself and others) that she's getting older and if she doesn't "compromise" she may never get married...

I gave her a lot of chizuk that she needs to have emuna and she'll find someone right for her. Start being open minded about the right things, maybe give up a little on looks, maybe a little on the fact that he's not the most outgoing chevraman etc. Look at neshamos - beautiful people within and without tha may be a bit shy, maybe they weren't the big mivtzoim guys in yeshiva or the Head Counselors in camp, etc.

Eventually, she started looking "not about what people will say when they heard who she got engaged to" but what her life is going to look like in ten years sitting around shabbos afternoon, with her husband spending time with the kids, learning chumash rashi, reviewing the gemara with them, telling chassidishe stories to the kids as they go to bed......

She is happily married to a wonderful person who is a bit younger than her, and is not featured often or at all on COL, but she is happy and her children are growing up in a household that she envisioned.

That's what counts.

Take out your list of "what you are looking for" and cross out 5 things. Then restart, things will change for the better.
(12/29/2011 1:25:57 PM)
Chabad Shidduch Meeting
B"H the community has grown. Shadchonim are doing their best given the amount of singles in the community. But "everyone and anyone" can make a suggestion to a single, neighbor, guest, sibling, friend. Graduating classes of married girls can get together and brainstorm, advocate for their classmates. Have their husbands bring home names of those young men who are still single. Yeshivos, seminaries can establish a contact who will yearly publish a list of their graduates. When calling or meeting a friend begin the conversation menitoning a single and see if the other person has an idea. I've heard of a shidduch being made when two boys were learning together and one had a single brother, the other a single sister and shoen-a shidduch was made. Finally-mothers, siblings and single females be proactive and attend the Chabad Shidduch meeting this Sunday,10:30-12 Noon at 1011 East 18th(btwn I & J). For more info contact:
(12/29/2011 1:33:55 PM)
I totally understand you, I dated for twelve years till I got married!!!!!!!!!!!
when your in it, you just cant see the light at the end of the tunnel, I found it so painful when all my classmates got married, I BH have now been married almost two years and have a baby! Now I use my difficult experience to help understand my friends and be there for them, I daven everyday they too will find, its always a risk but you know what do take risks but be sensable at the same time. (I have to admit i felt like giving up at some points in my life). I wish you to find yourself in a loving, caring and happy marriage very soon).
(12/29/2011 1:39:23 PM)
Down the line?
as a married man of 15 years i need to point out a few things. Having a shidduch is great with ffb, however, Balai teshuvas are having a hard time after the marriage. I look around in the lubavitch communities and BT have harder divorces and re marriages are worse than the first time round. We need more education about marriage, love and understanding what each spouse is expected to give and take from a marriage. Counselling after marriage is important, especially when it comes to parnossah. Just have this in mind when you date. Will this spouse/date stand beside you when u lose a job? have kids? problems with parents-in-laws? Or would this spouse/date laugh and walk away? be inconsiderate? mentally disconnect? Just have an open mind when you date and enjoy each moment with your future bashert.
(12/29/2011 2:20:38 PM)
It's all in Hashem's master plan.
I lived "the basement life" for 6 years. I don't think I've even gone out with 6 guys in that time.
Then I moved out of town. In that year I got more shidduchim than the 6 yrs in NY combined!
And when the right one came up, it was discovered that the friend who played shadchan knew both of us from the same exact time - 5 years earlier!
It's all in Hashem's master plan. We were not meant to meet earlier, and although it's good to be in NY a bit so ppl can get to know you, there is no reason to just hang out there forever.
(12/29/2011 2:20:44 PM)
to #28
you got issues!!!
good luck to you
(12/29/2011 2:35:06 PM)
so now your the one that knows whos hashems partner?
(12/29/2011 2:38:20 PM)
Common experiences exponentialy increase your chance of success
I strongly believe that if you both are Ba'al Teshuvos, you will have much more in common than if he or you were frum from birth (FFB). I suspect you are - you mention 6 years in Crown Hts. I have too many Lubavitch friends who are divorced because they came from totally different levels of Yiddishkeit. I applaude you for taking matters in your own hands, because you know who are and what you want better than any a two-hour interview with a Shaddchun. Plus, I am a firm believer that women can find our @ 90% about their date by the 2d date (unless you get a moron who is acting a role). I would always ask for references, like a Rav, from CH and from the city he grew up, and some long time friends who I would want to meet. Hatzlacha Rabbah and You Rock Girl!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(12/29/2011 2:50:17 PM)
It's a mashal
to #21 about the Chofetz Chaim - it's a mashal that he gave to illustrate the idea that when you've been dreaming through the davening and wake up towards the end, at least concentrate on the end! Or, if you related lashon hara in the morning, at least salvage the rest of the day and watch what you say. So too with other aspects of avodas Hashem.

A story originally heard about the Chafetz Chayim (although it soes not fit his nature): He was passing the marketplace and a widow called hijm over distraught and yelling that some hooligans had tipped over her fruit and vegetable sales-cart. People were snatching up the goods and walkingt away. She was begging him to help her. His advice was" Az aleh chappen, chap du oych. If everyone is grabbing produce, you grab as much as you can. The facts are on the ground ('lol').

(12/29/2011 3:07:31 PM)
all my sympathy to u but ...
lets call a spade a spade a frum person should only go out thru a shiduch whether it works out or not its not the right thing and u shoulnt encourage ppl to do the same
(12/29/2011 3:11:12 PM)
shadchan blog
we need a blog for people to comment on the shadchanim, so they will be accountable!
(12/29/2011 3:53:57 PM)
i dreaded the dating process its like a library some people browse the shelves other people get a random good book recommended by the librarian or their brother or friend or an event warranted and brought about you to like this book or author.

i wish all those people well ive only been on 3 dates. and its quite random
(12/29/2011 4:43:31 PM)
Make it Profitable
We have come to expect that these shadchanim should sweat on our behalf for a $1-2,000.00. In many situatons, the time needed to properly make a shidduch takes tens of hours and lots of dedication. I think we need to up the ante to get people more activley involved in the process... Executive Recruiters have been charging 20-30% of 1st year salaries forever.. If we paid our shadchanim $5-10K per success, you might be quite shocked how "evolved" the system would become. Young people would jump into the efforts and real work would be invested in this. The careless sloppy shadchanim would get a bad reputation but the good ones would rise to the top. I know it sounds like an exhorbitant amount, and its cold, but if you examine it objectively we end up with only two major options (that I can think of IMHO): (1) Create a wesbite that includes EVERY single name of EVERY single family in our circles so we can even see that these people even exist. (2) Motivate individuals to dedicate their lives, 40-50 hours a week like their life depends on it.

Follow the money.
(12/29/2011 4:56:47 PM)
to #34
You never know which door you have to open for Hashem's bracha to come through. I thought I would only meet someone through friends and didn't want to try a shadchan. In the end, I found my bashert through a shadchan who barely knew me. As long as everything is done in a tzniusdik manner, it doesn't really matter which door the bracha comes through. Going through a shadchan can work for some people - try to be open minded, and try to open all the doors.
(12/29/2011 9:08:56 PM)
Excellent article
To #11 everyone does & Shadchanim are only doing things for select individuals & very few at that. to # 43 They are just as bad & useless as the rest.I spoke to them 2 years ago & have constantly contacted them with the same bs results something has to change & now.Many times the best shidduchim are thru friends & happenstance.Masy you be successful in your endeavors & build a Binyan Adai Ad Taikaf Umiyad Mamosh!
(12/29/2011 11:21:47 PM)
-living in crown heights does not get you married
-this may be the way for you but it is not the best way generally
-I don't think this is what the Rebbe would generally approve of, and taking into account divorce rates you need all the brachos you can get
-before marriage when meeting a guy feelings go before of intellect, you may be very attracted to him (fall in love) but may find that when your past the "honey moon" stage you can't stand him
- a shadchan is supposed to find out the personality of the person before you go out, so that once you "fall in love" later you'll be able to live with the guy
- I suggest trusting in Hashem for finding a good shadchan or do the online profile thing
- all in all were talking about Hashgacha Pratis, so do your best and Trust in Hashem!!
(12/29/2011 11:30:58 PM)
dr.shlomo levi
I'm very sorry to say ti. but i knew way how completely destroy chabad movement.once and forever !for one weak. it simple . take some BT put hidden camera and send then to shadhanios in CH.. like BT want to find a shiduch. it simple.when people see HOW, even not what, but HOWthis "chaasidishe FFB like woman " speak whit BT it will be end of movement. it no mo BT after. . this woman mostly use it position to" laredet al ha anashim" . only 2 can speak nicely, like Jew suppose to speak with fellow brother. only 2 propose to seat. . all my life i work with people, and newer allow to me speak even with completely pere adam in such manner
in modern Belorussian(that all chabad from) law it strong requirements to be matchmaker. you need appropriate high degree education and have LICENSE . i think it time to rabbinical court in CH to study from goim
(12/29/2011 11:44:00 PM)
dear # 58
wow, this might be the most historical peace ever written. you have mastered the inability to communicate threw writing. i think you have actually perfected it.Bless you.
(12/30/2011 12:21:23 AM)
invite guys and girls to your shabbos meals it would give them an opportunity to meet someone
(12/30/2011 2:41:26 AM)
Pedigree first
Shidduchim in the frum world is all about pedigree. I gave up. There is no formula, no matter how religious you are or not. The frum world may protect women on paper, the ketubah, but it reality it is women who get blamed for anything that goes wrong. The world that they thought protected them in an illusion. Matchmaking from what I observe and have experienced, is all about social currency. Listen up frummies, the women are the vehicle for the geulah. I am a highly educated woman who lived a secular life. I studied chassidus for 15 years. The only men I got set up with were mentally ill, ones with more baggage than Louis Vuitton. I am looking for a sidekick, a male companion, I no longer want to get married. That dream has ended. Why chase pipe dreams, and things set up to fail ? The women I meet are more highly functioning than most of the men they are introduced to. Most of them want a nurse or a purse. Sad but true. Don't use religious as a smoke screen. Tell it the way it is. This article is refreshing, but I think the author still holds illusions that may backfire on her and where will she go then ?
(12/30/2011 8:06:36 AM)
dr.shlomo levi

to #54 Halojmes! you simple greedy! that's all. first- some shadhaniot get you sign agreement, that first years you paid maaser to them in addition to dmey shiduh. 4 y.a. i see it/! dos it help.? no. and plz be honestly. it can help we are in CH people that pray shaharit after 4p.m daily can be responsible. it simple $10-15- 20k not help $100k
irresponsibility ,for my sorrow it main feature of chabad ffb, it noting to do. it genetics all world chabad and bt it only to feed CH FFB. at least last 17 years. SO STOP SPEAK ABOUT PROFIT. IT NOT SUCH MONEY THAT you #54 become a mentch! you only want money
p.s it not about money
(12/30/2011 9:16:26 AM)
To all those who moan and complain about the “shidduch crisis”…

I go on COLive a few times a week and I’m always met with the same article heading: Shidduch SOS. Everyone has opinions and ideas, but when they present them they are bombarded with criticism and rebuttals. And that’s all people are doing. Instead of actually trying to change themselves and the system, they are pointing out the flaws of the system (although I do realize I’m contradicting myself by complaining about the complainers  ). Some say they found their shidduch by going through the “system”, while others found their bashert through their own actions and by taking control. The point is, different approaches work for different people and arguing about it will not change a single thing. The articles are written by well meaning people who hope to provide inspiration and answers to others. The problem is that it may be the wrong answers for some people. The comments, however, are direct flames towards the person because everyone has a different idea of what will work. But, one person’s opinion does not negate the others. Afterwards, some other well meaning person will write their own view of the shidduch scene. And so, the cycle continues. But at the end of the day, what was really accomplished? People destroying each other with their comments? People taking advice that was not geared towards them and, as a result, mess up their own lives? What works for one person may not be the right approach for another. And yet, they take the answer and try to finagle it to fit their own problem, twisting it into something so completely different. The solution is that there is no solution. Every person had to speak to their mashpia, to look inside themselves, and to see what will work. And instead of writing about it, go out and do something! Masseh hu ha’ikar!
(12/30/2011 3:00:33 PM)
there are people who care!!!!!
there is a really awsm couple in crown heights who really dedicate their time and energy to finding matches for people. they are not your typiccal shadchan and they only set up people which they have met so as not to throw out a gamble, they are young and easy to speak with ad meet. i went to them with a friend and we both walked out feeling confident that we were in the right direction. i cant take things into my own hands, i simply dont know how to or where to even find a guy. if you want a fair chance call the greenbaums. zuni or naomi. (i hope they dont mind i put their names up)
(12/31/2011 7:08:52 PM)
#19 - it's not just girls looking for Mr Perfect
It's boys looking for Miss Perfect
- it takes 2
(12/31/2011 9:10:03 PM)
to #11
Even with a Shadchan you don't know all the skeletons in the closet of the prospective boy! There are divorces happening even with those that dated through a Shadchan...The Shadchan knows just as much as you can find out. Alot of times a Shidduch is made just from an idea that comes to them without knowing the boy or girl personally ,and they put boy and girl think they know the deep dark secrets of the people they match up? Even asking friends can't guarantee you will find out everything....And how much do you think gets revealed on the kishkes of a person on a chassidishe date when going out 3-7 times. Kudos to the author of this article for doing her hishtadlus when she realized that there was no one advocating for her. Hatzlocha and Blessings to all those who need Shidduchim.
(12/31/2011 10:59:33 PM)
20 minutes
After reading this my mom said. "ask her to dedicate her 20 minutes this week to thinking of a shiduch for you". and my mom was serious.
(1/1/2012 4:16:37 AM)
BT writes
I write as a BT who b"h is happily married to someone I dated for 11 days! Yes I can see merit in the shidduch system (hey it worked for me) b"H I had a wonderful lady in CH who helped me vet shidduchim etc. BUT...
I find #23 etc. rather amusing. My parents met in college, dated, married, have been married over 40 years ka"h and guess what they have a strong, solid marriage. And ironicaly both my parents' siblings are frum shomer shabbos and both ended up divorced. At any rate you can't say it doesn't work. It is not true to say everyone in the secular world only dates because of attraction etc. Very often people know each other and like the personality before dating.
In the secular world looks, weight etc. don't have to count because you meet the person and get to know their personality and midos possibly even before going out.
IN OUR CHASSIDISHE world where the shidduch system is SUPPOSED to work differently, mothers of boys are constantly asking about a girl's looks, dress size, weight etc. BEFORE they meet. Why? Because they ersht meet having done all the research and it's about whether they are attracted to each other. Isn't it so ironic that a system which is supposed to bring out the penimiyus has ended up accentuating the chitzoniyus and all the problems that go with that e.g. eating disorders weight concerns etc. Something is wrong when this is the case. People asking for photos before dating etc. etc.
Something needs to change so that the shidduch system puts less emphasis on looks and appearance. Maybe takke a few phone dates is a great idea so you feel you know the person before meeting.
(1/1/2012 5:18:12 AM)
#58 and #59 ROFL
#58 if you're a Dr we're all in trouble
#59 I assume you were being humorous otherwise your English is only marginally better than #58.
Let's go eliminate the world.
(1/1/2012 5:20:14 AM)
Ppl get divorced because they can't maintain the relationship, not because they dated too long or too short. Religuous couples get divorced for the same exact reasons that secular couples break up- discord, disrespect, financial stress, etc. The point I'd shiddixh dating is not to avoid divorce. The point is to create a tznius way for men and women to meet and marry. There's no connection bren dating and divorce except that extreme mingling between genders after marriage can loosen morals in marriage and lead to ch'v adultery. But that's exception to the rule. So why is everyone asdumingshidfuch dating equals no divorce?
(1/1/2012 12:01:37 PM)
shadchonim-do you homework
i think that the people that call themself shadchonim are not doing their work a crown heihts resident and a mother of some married children and some not i find very little help from shadchonim,some absolutly not suitable suggestions and very often just plain indifference and even rudeness.if you took upon yourself the job of being a shadchan ,which is a big mitzva by itself,on top of a paying job-do it properly-find out more about prospective boys and girls,do not judge-it is not your place to judge-answear the phone calls,be simpatetic-people 's feelings are at stake! iagata u mazata-taamin-do you job!!
(1/1/2012 12:22:45 PM)
I totally agree with 68
I always say the same thing.

"the system" that is design to focus on personality over looks etc. does PRECISELY the opposite.

The answer is to let people just meet and modest mixed venues.
(1/2/2012 1:08:03 AM)
I think it's great that you started on your own-- totally appropriate (especially for a single your age)!
However, you seem to be putting down the people who had tried to set you up saying that they weren't men for you-- but you say that on paper "Daniel" may not be for you either. Also, you seem to be unappreciative of your friends: remember, if they truly are your friends, they have your best interest at heart, and maybe a guy with Daniel's "resume" isn't the guy for you-- but it works. Maybe they are thinking, "well he smokes and he is divorced..."
Please, you see how everything is hashgacha pratis and everyone will imy"h find his or her person when Hashem's plan wills it-- in the mean time-- try not to be so negative toward the people who do try.
(1/2/2012 9:28:23 PM)
to number 30
This is a quote from what the author of comment # 30 said:
I fully understand where she's coming from, I've been there myself and yes I will prob end up 'finding my own' ITS ABOUT TIME THESE SO-CALLED SHADCHANIM GO AND GET A PROPER JOB THEN MAYBE THE DIVORSE RATE WITHIN COMMUNITIES WILL BE SLASHED MY 50%"

My reply is:
1. These people you say to "get real jobs" usually have jobs and this is their side job usually Shadchanim are Rabbonim in Yeshivos and Seminaries
2. Than inappropriate contact in the community will be up 500%,

I am not from C.H. and live near communities which I will not mention due to Lashon Harah that don't use the Shidduch system and many people don't get married because to them now every night you can be with a different girl, of course that's not everyone, and I understand that there are problems in the system many of them including lack of education to people dating and whatever else. I personally am confused and overwhelmed by all of these problems it's crazy Hashem should help us and everyone who needs a Shiduch.
(1/2/2012 11:44:34 PM)
I'm not criticizing her Chas V'Shalom
I'm not from CH so I wouldn't know how it works there but I assume it's similar to other places that use the Shadchin system,
but maybe she doesn't get called back by Shadchanim because she had/has a bad reputation or didn't go to seminary or something I really don't know, I'm not trying to judge negatively I'm just a very analytic person, it's just she's leaving out many details in this article and it's a bit strange, and the way she makes it sound a Bein Torah doesn't seem to be her first choice she doesn't mention what she's looking for (technically she could be looking for a guy that's nice goes to Shul and doesn't go out of his way)
I'm just saying we can start making inferences/ Diyukim from this article it lacks crucial information
(1/2/2012 11:54:16 PM)
tell us what happened at the end!!
please update us with results!
(1/3/2012 7:44:14 PM)
dr.shlomo levi
i read 3 article and most people say, that it only girl want shiduch and luck of bahorim???? strange most BT that i knew get from CH shadhaniyot answer. we don't have enough girls(our girlls it not for you) so how? we need open information system
(1/6/2012 12:32:52 PM)
Hatzlocha Rabboh!
I hope it works out, great ideas too!
(1/10/2012 9:37:54 PM)
Good Luck
i hope this is the right one, you dont have to meet the right one through a shidduch,
(7/21/2013 1:48:02 PM)
good for you
the thing I find least agreeable about shidduch dating is having to rely on someone else to help me accomplish what is important to my own life but not important to their life. marriage is vital to me and it isn't vital to someone else that I get married and so I'm stuck relying on someone else who is naturally going to be placing their own needs, wants, desires, selfishness first before they are able to help me. For a guy to start a conversation with a girl on his own and asking her out isn't going to be well received and will more than likely be rejected. I am happy for your success but I don't see this become a trend setter in the dating world...
(9/4/2014 9:47:43 AM)
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