By COLlive reporters in Crown Heights
Controversy over the democratically elected third member of the Crown Heights Bais Din continues with two senior member of the Badatz sending contradicting messages to local Jewish residents.
While Rabbi Yaacov Schwei, who supported Rabbi Yossi Braun in the elections, notified he will be attending the “hachtara” inauguration ceremony Sunday night, his colleague Rabbi Avrohom Osdoba is against it.
At the center of the riff is the psak ruling released by Dayan Rabbi Avrohom Rosenberg who said Rabbi Braun’s election was legitimate although he produced a problematic smicha document (which its giver apparently retracted) and refuses to make a second one public.
Rabbi Osdoba has notified he does not recognize the election or the psak, saying it was invalid. He wrote to Vaad Hakohol Chairman Zaki Tamir forbidding him to go ahead with the inauguration until matters are clarified.
On Sunday, 1:15 PM Tamir reported to COLlive.com that he and “a group of yungerleit committed to seeing peace and closure in the community” came unannounced to Rabbi Osdoba’s home.
Tamir alone went in and reported back that Rabbi Osdoba will still not appear, because he is opposed to the hachtorah until there is verification of an original smicha document.
“I asked Rabbi Osdoba for permission to conduct the hachtorah and for me to appear and present the Vaad Hakohol. Considering the difficult position in which the vaad hakohol finds itself – between the psak of the zablo and letter I received last night from Rabbi Osdoba – he granted me express permission to attend the hachtorah and to conduct all of the arrangements associated therewith, in my capacity as Chairman of the Vaad Hakohol.”
Tamir also said that “Rabbi Osdoba also instructed me that I was not to sign a contract until Rosh Chodesh Adar, the deadline established by the zablo, in order to provide for an opportunity to verify the existence of an original smicha document.”
He also asked to note that “since I took office June 13th 2010, I have never taken any steps affecting the Vaad or beis din without consulting the rabbonim in advance.”
UPDATE – Sunday, 3:43 PM: Rabbi Osdoba called COLlive to clarify that “My position regarding the hachtara remains the same being that it has no halachic grounds as outlined by my Motzoei Shabbos letter.” He added that residents should not attend.
Sunday 2:30 PM: All three members of the Vaad Hakohol, Tamir, Fischel Brownstein and Yossi Hackner officially adjourned the last meeting before the hachtorah event.
“Tonight’s hachtorah has our unanimous endorsement,” they said in a statement. “We are unanimous in the decision to retain Shmuel Chanin‘s professional services to provide fiscal management for the Vaad Hakohol.
Sunday, 5:54 PM: Tamir and Brownstein told COLlive.com they are heading to JFK airport to greet Rabbi Braun and bring him to Crown Heights.
Sunday, 6:36 PM: Rabbi Braun is now at the Rebbe’s Ohel and will be heading to Crown Heights in time for hachtara event in 770 set to begin 9:00 PM.
Sunday 7:02 PM: Calls were being made throughout the day to invite Rabbonim and leaders of other Brooklyn neighborhoods to the event.
Sunday 7:56 PM: Rabbi Braun is in Crown Heights and is at the home of his parents in law, Rabbi Sholom Ber and Chana Lipsker. This is his first time in the neighborhood since winning election in September 2010.
Zaki doesnt even know who I am yet. However, I will tell you a fact that has been verified, Zaki Tamir never takes any steps affecting the Vaad or beis din without consulting the rabbonim in advance. He is a man that shows everyone respect and NEVER SAYS ANYTHING BAD ABOUT ANYONE!. Zaki is helping the Crown Heights community in so many ways that would blow peoples mind away if you only knew. MAny people do know and are appreciative. Go up to Rabbi Osdaba and ask him, go over to Rabbi Osdaba and ask him! Zaki is a man… Read more »
You’re arguing with the Zabla Beis Din
wasn’t the whole point to bring peace to kan tzivoh?? seems to be adding salt to the wound
What everyone seems to ignore is that Rav Osdoba feels rightfully responsible for a Rav on the beis din to have the proper background. He will not and should not back down. The Vaad is overstepping their bounds by public relations schtick with oh everything is fine. Well until someone can answer Rav Osdoba questions properly things are not right.
Simcha Hellinger
There was a young man who married a girl who misrepresented her background education. After the
wedding, he discovered she lied about this, and the marriage was annulled immediately. A person prone to big lies posesses a character void of integrity. It shadows over all thoughts and actions in a dark and negative way. How can such people/person lead in a holy way? Pitty thoses who are at the mercy of such shady characters.
i cant understand, anyone knows that rabbi brown knows much more then any bocher that get a smicha, then why make a big story? if he wnats rabbi O himself can test him, and everyon is 100 % sure that he will pass it. thats all. Im usualy an anty, but this time i feel that rabbi o its not using common sense, and bringuing to machlokes. chaval. an outsider
Do you think that the more times you repeat a lie – it makes it the truth?
The zablo beis din of 5 distinguished Rabbonim state clearly that he HAS semicha. They have seen it.
He is NOT obligated to show it to YOU. He showed it to the RABBONIM in charge of the election process.
Just for your information — forgetting for a second whether or not he does or does not have semicha (I don’t know) — the guy is an iluy, and absolute gaon and talmid chochom. Even the litvishe Rabbonim in Sydney call him to discuss their shailos.
Whether or not he has a certificate I don’t know, but the material he is boki in.
That said, continue to argue ….
Give R. Braun 2-3 tests a week and he will be done with smecha and dayonis in a month. Then get shimush and wala! Fast tracked rov.
I do not understand why your making a big deal about the new Rov’s semicha? Maybe he has it or maybe he doesn’t.
what is is it really worth these days? I have many friends which have semicha and they cant read Hebrew.
P.S. why didn’t I hear of anyone asking is he a learned man?
THAT WE WERE PRESENTED WITH AN INVALID CANDIDATE. MANY OF US WOULD NOT HAVE VOTED FOR HIM IF WE KNEW…
It seems that there were certain requirements which possibly were discovered not to have been fulfilled and Rabbi Osdobo decided to question them. Whether you consider it correct or not, consider this: The comments here have shown such a wild disrespect to a Rov that I have never seen in any other Jewish community. They show a lack of self respect and an unbridled contempt for dignified and mentchlich behaviour. There is a way of voicing disapproval while maintaining ones own dignity and that of the person to whom the comment is directed. The crucial point is the terrible message… Read more »
A great kid from Florida brought peace and honor to our holy shchuna. Go Landow!!!!! You instill love, respect and honor for Hashem, the Rebbe, Rabbonim and all Jews in your students. G-D bless the Korfs and their great work in Florida should continue, one kid at a time. Landow is the best. Above all you give the intangible. I’m proud to be part of your alumni. Zaki Tamir you rock. You’re a good kid. G-D bless your parents for raising such an awesome man. They must be great and special people. They must respect Daas Torah cause you do… Read more »
What a mentsch? We are so lucky to have someone like him in this community. Peace
Dear Rabbi Kantor, As we in the shchuna know that you are an outspoken member of our community (& have no issue to publicly identify yourself), you should be prepared to also face the brunt of what you sow. From the outset, you did not like this because you were not in the running for the position of Rov-which you would have loved to be nominated for. Hence, we now have a situation where everyone agreed to have Rabbi Rosenberg be the “yachreiah beinayihem”, no one voiced any opposition to this before the elections. Now wit the elections behind us… Read more »
Zaki, you are the only true mensh in that sad story. Thank you for the good example you’re showing to the whole community. You’re a real leader and a chosid who respect the BD decision whatever your personal opinion is on the matter..
Rabbi Braun, may you be a good Rov for the community. Make us proud again to be Lubavitcher as in the days of old.
As for HaRav Osdoba, there is no need to write here what I think of his coward attitude…
the churbon of sydney is just coming to CH
We can all learn from the Vaad, how to treat every Rabbi and talmid chacham with the utmost respect! Yashor Koach to the Crown Heights new Vaad on your good middos, you guys are doing a great job! We trully appreciate every effort!
He has no semicha!!! thats the first line and the bottom line Rabbi Osdaba is right not to sit with him…
i cant understand this, we finaly got a yung person someone who evreyone could look up to here in c,h from gimmel tamuz there is almost no single person the youth could look up to and now finaly we have someone so we need to put him down also. why do we have to be the lossers in the frum world , why does rabbi osdoba have to do this to us? we need the kids here to have someone to look up to and now i,y,h we will have rabbi braun and he will lead us to many gute… Read more »
Zaki. A true leader.
Enough said.
So was Obama born in the U.S. and does he have the constitutional right to be President. Why hasn’t he produced a copy of his birth certificate?!HHMM??!!
attention all people who spend their lives finding every flaw in another :wake up and smell the coffee!!!!!!
this is why there are so many kids searching in the wrong places for truth: because the ones they are told to respect spend all their time bashing anyone that might not please them ! you people are confusing, and turning off a lot of kids who need someone to look up to!
my heart goes out to Rabbi Braun. He didnt harm a soul and yet he has a whole war going on against him
How many people do you know in CHTs that “will be so happy to attend” that they “can’t wait” because “this will finally bring achdus”…yadda yadda yadda… Trying to trump up attendance? Wy bother finding the similarity of quotes there. Again, attempts to increase the crowd. I am not prepared to face the Holy BaisDin above and be wrong. To those who leave home to go I say “Tzeischem LeShalom, Uvoachem Leshalom” BUT it will NOT be BeSHOLOM. It will be a Schunah skewered on barbecue spit rotating in the heat of the fire. The majority, in my estimate, are… Read more »
THIS MUST BE A VERY BIG EVENT TONIGHT, WHICH IS A GREAT STEP TORWARD THE GEULA SHELEIMA. NO WONDER THE SATAN IS TRYING TO STOP IT WITH ALL IT’S MIGHT.
LET’S KEEP UP THE SIMCHA AND WE WILL SEE THE ULTIMATE YESHUA.
WELCOME RABBI BRAUN. WE ARE SO GRATIFIED FOR THIS MOMENT. SHEHECHIYANU!!!
Do you realize that this argument of “need to listen,” “need to attend,” etc. applies only to the people who participated in the so called elections? That excludes all women, single men… If this community really wants unity, we might want to begin by including more people in the decision-making process. After that, we can work together on neutral projects (i.e. CHESSED) Once we’ve mastered team work, we might want to aim for truth, transparency, common goals, core values. At that point, we might be ready to make a decision as big as this one. Right now, people say they’re… Read more »
Welcome to Rabbi Y Braun, we hope that you can help our community restore its kovod for Rabbonim.
going to see if there;s going to be any protest inside 770
The unanimous decision of the vaad hakohol is to follow halaacha to the fullest extent.
We are heading in the right direction.
What is Rabbi Osdoba fighting about NOW and what was he fighting about a few SHORT years ago? Now, he is fighting about the issue of who gets to see the Semicha – if it’s enough for Rabbi Rosenberg to see it or if he can get to see it himslef? But don’t forget that a few SHORT years ago it was a different song and dance which is now long forgotten. Rabbi Osodba used to claim that he can chalenge not only the authority of Rabbi Broin but he also wanted to chalenge the authority and validity of the… Read more »
Boruch Hashem we see that it is most of the people that want democracy and Emess, and that it is only a small number with other motives.
Open (more or less) forums like these helps to see this. Shkoach.
Looking forward to the Hachtoro – and to a new start with a complete Beis Din of Crown Heights as the Rebbe wishes.
Really hope R’ Osdoba will show up, but the Hachtora must proceed in any event.
Mazal Tov – this is a very special night for Crown Hieghts 🙂
myself, R” osdoba and R’ Schwei including the entire community. We all have to follow the zablo rulling. I see no place for letters orders etc from any one. I hope to see all rabomin attending tonights hachtoro.
I think we know the answer to that one. Non of us in the civilised world would ever dare to stoop so low to have such enormouse chutzpah to demand of Rabbi Osdoba that he should be forced to show his Semicha of Yoreh Yoreh and of Yodin Yodin. How do we know it;s not forged or “dated” or what not. Does anyone have the CHUTZPAH to demand that we supena Rabbi Osodb’as Semicha and to dend it to the FBI crime lag for carbon dating and fruad detection – perhaps it was all a forgery? Certainly there are no… Read more »
העובדה שנציגים בוועד עזבו בגלל הרב רוזנברג “לטובת השמאל עובדה שעשו עוד פעם בחירות לנציגים לטובת השמאל עובדה שרוזנברג היה טוב כל זמן שהוא משרת את השמאל עובדה שהכניסו רב שלא גר בקרון הייטס ומנהל כמה מוסדות כאן מהשמאל הרב שלא נבחר לטובת השמאל הנקודה מאד פשוטה זבל”א זה בשביל מצב כמו בשכונה שההלכה -תורתינו הקדושה נותנות הזדמנות למצב של פשרה\אחדות או הפסד לצד מסויים הרבנים הסכימו לפסק רוזנברג לפני זה!! והרב רוזנברג החליט שהוא ברווין יהיה הרב [על פי בחירות]נקודה מי שלא מסכים הוא לא רק לוזר, זה נגד התורה שהרי גם הרב אזדבא נתן לו כח ואי אפשר… Read more »
I will be at the Hachtora and everyone on my block is coming too. This is a rare moment in history and this is a lifetime position. I want to be there to give Kovod and thanks to all the Rabbonim, all the Netzigim all of the Vaad Hakohol and thanks to Rabbi Rosenberg who worked tirelessly to help CH get out of our non-stop Machlokes. He will help us end the last few drops of lingering machlokes too – don’t worry. Above all I feel me must come to show our appreciation and give Kovod to all the Yungelite… Read more »
Zaki, please continue with your efforts to bring peace to Crown Heights, the Rebbe’s Shchunah. We all think that you are doing a great job and you together with the the rest of the Crown Heights youngerlite can make the world a better place starting from the worlds boiler room and ultimately bring us to the final redemption with Moshiach to the promise land! Chazak Viyamatz… Semper fi!
Welcome Rabbi Braun, we are excited you are here. I hope tonight will be amazing. I have been looking forward for this evening for a long time and its finally here.
majority of ch voted for you.. we all excited.
Whats HE doing by the ohel?
How could Rabbi Braun gotten to this point if he does not have a proper Smicha certificate? and why would he NOT have a proper Smicha certificate?
amazing how all these years the meshichist used the fact to defend rabbi marlow by saying he was the rebbes rov and so on not that they dont agree with r’ osdobo it all falls apart and they go along with a rov from monsey???!!
An Eigel Hazahav for Crown Heights….
I feel like sadly we are getting what we deserve
i do not agree with what rav osdoba is doing
but i will also not attend the hachtara
and many of the people i know will do the same
what 99% is in favor..my entire block is not attending and is disgusted with this rush into unknown. no smecha no shimush = no real respect…so stop kidding around.
We have to be Melamed Zchus on Rabbi Osdoba Shelita. Put yourself in his shoes. Imagine that for years you had unilateral power and picture yourslef in a position where you were the ONE and ONLY Rav and all of CH goes by your word and by your word alone and no other Rav has any say. Then suddenly, you are no longer the sole proprietor of the Badataz. Suddenly a new stranger, Rabbi Schwei moves in and he claims 50/50 power share of the Baies Din. Needless to say if I was in Rabbi Osdoba’s shoes and suddenly someone… Read more »
It is a very hard position to be in now and I hope you have success in handling it.
Rabboysay, You continue to miss the point and the real issue as far as a Rov for the Rebbe’s hoif (courtyard) is concerned. 1. The Rebbe, in his clearest statement on today’s situation, said publicly that chassidim should take the queries (they are bringing to him) to chassidisheh Rabbonim. (He made them shluchim for his voice and opinion. Surrogates.) 2. NO-ONE CLAIMS BRAUN HAD SMICHA BEFORE HE WAS MARRIED. The Tzinner “document” was somewhere around 07 (there are currently double-digit Broindelech KAH). 3. For some 10 years Braun disobeyed the Rebbe. If he didn’t have big designs he would probably… Read more »
We hope Rabbi Osdobo shows, but if he doesn’t that is ok too. We as the community will be greeting our new ruv with great excitement. I am so anxious I cant wait. Mazel Tov and Shehechayanu that we finally reached this wonderful night.
What time is the installation ceremony?
cancel this event. its not too late to save the ship. this is not the answer, this will only cause more of what we’ve had for the past ten years. without Rabbi Osdoba on board we will NEVER have peace. Don’t force this down our throats.
Is this the newest phenonomen religious birthers?
we voted he won and if u want ill give him smicha im sure hell pass
I’m so happy that Rabbi Osdoba decided not to come.
Brouch Hashem!
Rabbi Osdoba’s refusal to come is actually a blessing in disguise.
The event in 770 tonight will be a very festive with united achdus.
BH that the small handful of sore losers will not spoil the festivities for the 99% who will attend.
No contract for him till adar – because he may or may not be rov, but wwe make him an hachtorah for ….what exactly??? This is so confusing it makes no sense at all!!
This was a big accomplishment, and a lot of nissey nissim took place to make this possible.
Can’t wait for tonight!!!
“Not withstanding his conversation with Tamir this morning, he is still calling on residents not to attend”
Is Tamir nor a resident? If residents are being told not to attend, is Tamir removing himself from being a resident?
Permission to attend does not mean that he should attend when OUR Rov is calling on residents NOT to attend!!
1. The people supporting R Bruan don’t use logical arguments. They are not dealing with the issues/problems at hand. Like their Liberals counter-part (the American left), they resort to name calling and personal attacks. They bash/insult those who dare to question and conveniently ignore what being questioned. 2. Why are the R Braun Supporters so nervous, why are they so jumpy, frustrated and angry? If everything is so clear cut and your man “won”, then wheres the self confidence, why are you writing comments in defense of something so simple and easy? As far as you should be concerned, it’s… Read more »
This is absolute falsehood . Rabbi Osdoba never gave Zaki permission . He told this to many people.
.
R” Osdoba with all respect has no say. We follow the Zablo.
Doesn’t any1 see this as very strange. The whole story fromt eh begining till now seems so odd to me. I am very worried about this Rabbi. Where are all the smart and responsible members of crown heights. They should have just voted for an ehrliche Rabbi wo so much baggage. I’m afraid ppl will regret this decison very soon
That tonight as one the entire community came out in mass to support the new and distinguished third Ruv of our dear and special community. We all danced and sang as one with full acceptance of the new ruv…. Make it happen… BE THERE…let the healing begin..
R’ Osdoba does NOT give permission and you know it
…. and give the community some sort of chance at peace, and I dont care if the guys who have been responsible for the past 25 tears of fighting will be there or not.
this whole thing is a joke… for a long time i have said that both, r’ osdoba and r’ schwei should be booted out, how can it be the two leading rabbonim of a community cant stand each other and do whatever they can to outdo each other, it is a disgrace, when will someone stand up and do something.
Tamir said that “I have never taken any steps affecting the Vaad or Beis Din without consulting the rabbanim in advance.” It seems to me “in advance” is the wrong word to use. Tamir planned the hachtarah, put up signs, made all the arrangements, and then at the 11th hour decided to consult Rabbi Osdoba as to whether or not to have the hachtarah. What a farce!
Rabbi Osdobo, please join the vast majority of your community in attending tonight’s hachtara.
You are going to show and amazing example and teach a huge lesson to us.
Why doesn’t he just come??
It depends how you look at it.
Is Rabbi Osdoba really boycotting the community Hachtorah or would it be more proper to say that the community boycotting Rabbi Osdoba because 99% will attend, in spite of his boycott.
In effect we are all boycotting his boycott because we will all be at the Hachtora.
Keep up the good work!
Rabbi O must sign a document that he does see the original smicha with a verified smicha that will be the end. He cant than say, but no shimush, or some other lame excuse he will come up with. Why does Rabbi O even need to see it. The Dayanim need to not him. He is a litigant in this matter not the judge. No one has to show it to him by halacha for him to become Ruv. What Rabbi O is saying that he will refuse to sit with him because he doesn’t know credentials, so let him… Read more »
Zaki Tamir is a liar: Rabbi Osdoba NEVER gave him permission to do the Hachtara tonight, what Rav Osdoba said was the following: If you -will not listen to me and you- will make the Hachtara tonight because they pressure you, at least do not sign the contract till Rosh chodesh Adar….Rabbi Osdoba is AGAINST the Hachtara and did NOT give permission to Zaki Tamir, this is what Zaki Tamir told as soon as he left Rabbi Osdoba’s house.
It does matter if there is a ceremony tonight. The fact is Reb.Yosef Braun did not have Semicha prior to his election. Therefore his candidacy and election is null and void. Where are the other member of the Rabbinic committee who worked with Rav Rosenberg, they are absent because they were deceived and now are very embarressed. What is going to occur when the non existant Semicha never materialises. A “decrowning” ceremony and a new election which will occur under which authority?. This is pathetic and another very sad day for the Rebbe’s Sechunah. Please do not disgrace the Holy… Read more »
A REAL MENTCH!
it was quite clear that 770 was going to be filled to capacity tonight, with 99% of the community attending regardless of his aproval or opposition.
it was clear that he was basically irrelivent and everyone was going to attend anyway.
That would have been a major slap in the face if thousand turn out in spite of his opposition.
This was a smart move for him because now he can save face, claiming it only happened because he gave his OK.
zero integrity and zero credibility. Remember that a few days ago Tamir also said that rabbi Osdoba told him he will attend. Then he says he will not attend and he is against the entire event. Now he changed his mind a 3d time and says Ok to tamir once more. It is to expected that in the next few hours he can still change his mind 4 more times, back and forth. With the fake elections for R’ Segal. R’ Zirkind and R’ Reitport, which were invalidated by Rabbi Rosenberg the same thing happened. First Rabbi Osdoba was for… Read more »
Dear Rabbi broun if i may can i introduce you to the lubavitch yeshiva system every bochur is encouraged to go to a mesivta for 3 year then a zal for 3 years then 1 year of shlichus and then 1 of the nxt 2 or 3 years is dedicated to smicha im holding at the latter stage. now i have friends that chose for whatever reason not to finish the yeshiva system and to be honest might not be the guy thats r considerd dish’t yet never the less every single one of them went to some sorta smicha… Read more »
haha! right about now i’m glad i’m not zaki 🙂
I admire someone like zaki who will follow the ruling of a beis din whether it is politically expedient or not.
He is just doing what every simple honest jew would do. (when you add too much ‘lomdus’ to the mix there is a possibility of ‘metaher sheretz…).
zaki :why dont you consult with the other 2 members of the vaad?
if you get r’ osdobo in a room alone w/ o his ppl
there is a chance of him being slightly reasonable.
looks like we are getting a little closer to achdus and peace. this is uplifting news.
the power of non-political yungerlight.
please continue using this power, urge the most senior rov of hour beis din to join the vast majority of us tonight.
we need you rabbi!
This is a beautiful move on the part of Rabbi Osdobo Shlit”o.
Please complete the picture, and honor the Hachtara ceremony with your presence. It will mean a great deal to many of us pushute yiden.
you rock
This is very positive news!
Rabbi Osdobo, please please please come tonight. let this be the beginning of the healing process for our community.
R’ Osdobo’s presence will only diminish the event.
Let Rabbi Osdoba back down without disgrace. He made a big mistake with his letter, on BD’Z stationary. Give him some time to cool down, Then he can say he reviewed the documents and they are good, but his prior suspicions were reasonable until he saw them. This way, he comes clean, accepts the will of the community, and gets to wipe the egg off of his face in private!
so what does rabbi osdoba say: should can we go? is he still recomeding we shouldnt go?
for doing all you can to end the machlokas and make crown hts a better place for us all to live in.
so why did he put out an open letter against it like three hours ago???? who is running the show here? Rabbi ozdibo has some answering to do.
are we gonna have to pay for R’ Rosenberg to attend?
let the professional fighters and balai Machlokis fight it out and let us as the community start the healing.
I voted for him under the assumption he was vetted by R’ Rosenberg & Co., in other words, it was understood that he was eligible to be Rav if he won. Only (a while) after the elections did it come out that his Smiecha is non-existent. Since his election was a ‘maikech toas’, he needs to extend the community a courtesey and display his Smiecha, expecially to the ones who voted for him. To make the hachtara at this point in time is pretty stupid, what’s Tamir’s rush. This is certainly not the proper way to go about this process.
You are kidding, right?
I think R’ Osdobo lost even more credibility with this latest announcement – if thats possible.
What a story! Hatzlocha rabba.
I’m sure in about 10 minutes, R’ Osdoba will come out against it again.