Editor’s note: This article was written by a 23 year-old bochur who requested to stay anonymous in order to have the freedom to say what needs to be said, and hence give a better perspective to people.
By Anonymous
Last night it was bitterly cold outside, but Rabbi Manis Friedman was heating things up with a lecture here in Crown Heights. The topic was: “Is there a shidduch crisis?” I attended in order to tell COLlive readers what a 23 year-old bochur thinks and feels about this hot and current topic. What is going through our minds? Wouldn’t you like to know?
There are many guys and girls looking to get married. It isn’t easy to try so hard for so long. It’s painful, and I am sure many lose lots of sleep over it. So what is the root of the problem? Where is the problem stemming from, and why now, in 2010, is the problem peaking?
There were several points that Rabbi Friedman mentioned which are so true, yet we all suffer from it and fail to recognize it as a problem.
“Instead of worrying who you’re going to marry, we used to worry how we are going to marry.”
Can’t we all relate to that? Don’t we all say we want someone to be a certain height or weight? Or we want the family to have a certain amount of means
The problem, Rabbi Manis was telling the crowd, is that singles are looking to marry the perfect girl, instead of looking to simply get married.
“Our focus is blurred and our fundamentals have changed. It used to be that ‘I want to get married.’ Once you had that in mind, you would find someone suitable. Now it’s more like “I’m not ready to get married, but if I find this amazing girl then I will marry her.”
He said that in the secular world it is not about marriage being holy or a necessity. “Just because you found a nice girl, that is not a reason to get married, besides for the fact that there is no such thing as the perfect girl. You get married because it is the right thing to do and because it is sacred.”
“We have to put marriage on the front burner.”
He said: “You need to get married, and in order to do that you find the right person. We have to be focused on the important things. For example: What kind of a home am I going to have; What kind of values am I going to teach my children, how will I raise them to be good? Those were the concerns.”
Now let me tell you, I am guilty of all things mentioned so far, and all of the rest of the things I am going to write. I have not been on a date yet, but I know that I think with the wrong thought process.
In my mind the most candid statement of the lecture was: “A lot of people are honest enough to say, ‘What would my friend say if I marry her?’ Instead of thinking what is best for me, people are busy thinking what others will say, which will eventually lead to comparing wives. Whether it is about who is better looking, or who’s more popular. That happens when you are marrying a girl. If you are marrying your bashert then there is nothing to compare. Would a woman then say ‘maybe I should marry her husband?’ No way. Because you know this is the right person for me, this is who was destined for me, and that is all there is to it.”
This is an idea I have never heard anyone verbalize before, but now that Rabbi Friedman said it, it is glaringly obvious. We have to focus on the right thing.
“You’ll never be ready enough for marriage.”
He said: “Partly because of society, we have changed what we are supposed to be looking for. No matter what the cause is, the fact is that our priorities have changed. But if marriage is the goal then it’s much easier to find the right person.”
Truth is, when I think about marriage it’s about “What will she look like? What will others think? Let me wait until I am ready.”
I hate to say this because I have disagreed with this idea until last night, that “if you think you are ready then you are most definitely not, and it can be reckless.”
My question is, if the fact that our focus has shifted is such a widespread issue, then how is it solved? Rabbi Friedman’s answer was that the parents have to instill the proper values in their children.
However, how do the people who are looking to get married now shift their focus back to the right way? I think these novel ideas and realizations have to be publicized and talked about.
I know guys talk about marriage, how much more so girls are talking about marriage.
Why not talk about these topics? Why can’t friends talk to each other how I want to find the one who was destined to be for me? Not about what type of job he or she will have, or what he or she will look like.
“If he’s tall then he’s tall, there is nothing you can do about it.”
It is definitely hard to think that way, and actually internalize that. Once people start talking about it and thinking more about it, it will become more of a widespread feeling.
There was an article on COLlive a couple of months ago about parents wanting to organize classes to teach singles in the Chabad community about relationships and marriage.
Why is that so pertinent and important? Because especially us guys, have zero education when it comes to this topic. We know nothing about it. How are we supposed to know anything of the sort? Now that I think about it, with the lack of knowledge in this topic, it is easier for the wrong ideas and focus to creep into our minds.
Knowledge is power. There is a major need for guys and girls to attend classes about what our focus should be comprised of, relationships, and what marriage is about. That would be a great step in the right direction towards maintaining the proper ideas and mentality for finding “The right one.” A.K.A. The destined one.
I’m far from perfect, and I will have to work on myself regarding all of this, but knowing the problem is half the solution.
I think the point is the love is APPROPRIATE in marriage – if there is no love, then there is something wrong. However, a lack of love in marriage is not a reason to disolve the marriage, but to work on it. A “loveless” marriage is salvagable. Just my thoughts.
This is from R. Friedmans facebook page / Rabbi Manis Friedman: “Love is not an important consideration in marriage; even when the love is not there, you cannot just walk off. Marriage is about becoming one with another person. That is why divorce is terrible. Just because you do not like how your leg is, does not mean you go ahead and amputate it. Being married does not make you friends. It makes you ONE. ” Being married makess you become ONE which includes LOVE and being best FRIENDS. What kind of marriage is it if there is no love… Read more »
We need to stop referring to adults as “boys” and “girls.” They are men and women. Men and women have responsibilities and obligations, boys and girls do not.
Men should be looking first for good mother for his children. After that he should care about looks, personality, etc, etc.
Another thing to keep in mind, if you find that you still think and feel the same way you did at the time of your bar or bat mitzvah, your not ready to get married.
although it is tru:)- at least some of it but i find the peer pressure aspect the most true:) i think we all ta just get going instead of mopping over these problems- bring moshiach and all will b solved (but still get married:)
I got married because it was the right thing to do…. ….and I looked for the IMPORTANT things – Midos -Yiras Shomayim…15 plus years later, I can say – that is the ONLY way to go. I did not get married because I liked his style (hated his glasses) or his looks, ( he was ok, cute – but no stud), or was cool etc – he was just a hardworking, intelligent, chassidishe bochur that was aidel and nice. And 15 plus years later, I can say – we are the best of friends, finish each others sentences, respect each… Read more »
the #1 ingredient for true success in Family is seeking out guidance & direction from those who have expertise & experience
those who resist new ideas from mentors etc live below their full potential…
eiehu chacham halomeid m’kol adom
Obviously research should go into the process and people shouldnt just get married before they know clearly its a good (compatible) match. good in terms of: Does He/She have the right values? Does He/She have good midos? Do i feel an attraction drawn to this person (note: it dosent say, infatuated, a-crush…) simply a anticipation of the heart toward the other, if the fundemental ingrediants are present, the marriege is inclined to blossom & deepen m’chayil el choyil, if Ch”v the Main ingredients are not the Deciding-Focus if your lacking Humility (yiras shomayim) to heaven if your lacking Kindness (Middos)… Read more »
I dont think the point was to offend guys in general.
Its just easier to be a good girl than to be a good guy, both because of their different natures (girls are GENERALY more drawn to spirituality, and more obedient / interested in doing the ‘right’ thing), and because of what is expected of them (the boys have to do more… learn all day etc)
NOT that i’m saying its easy to be a good girl…
First off, I didn’t come up with this.. What is written under 122
And don’t know if its my place really to teach..
So many wise people are disrespected, teachers, mechanchim, mashpiim. I’m not yet married.
Thank you though
Wow. Getting sharp here. I am a guy. There are lots of good guys out there. Why would you say such a statement? What is it based upon?
There are more better girls than better guys.
I see the girls looking down.. I feel bad for them. Is it proven that there are more girls born than boys?
I was reading all these comments and i would like to share my story. About 20 years ago when i was well into the shidduch scene, had been dating for 3 years or so, my husbands name came up for me. My first impression was no. He came from a no name family and parnassah was meager on their part. The shadchan convinced my parents that i should give it a shot, bec he was a real special boy. All i can say is that BH i listened. From the moment i wen tout with my husband i saw charachter… Read more »
i’m a 19 years old girl .. and i hear so much that people say : there is not enough guys , but there is too many girls .. and as a girl obviously i see the girls situation and i remeber last year i was in seminary in nyc and i was seeing so many sinlges girls hanging out in ch waiting to get married and on shabbos so many of them looking down to the guys section … you can guess why … then i ask myself i see so many girls that are looking to get married… Read more »
Uh you really shouldn’t have posted the details of the two girls you have “seen”
( Small tip–Get comfortable with the word “dated” and you’ll be more comfortable with the actual date.)
what if a girl you went out with recognizes herself as the one you described here? its a bit embarrassing for her.
I think your parents are just rude!! My parents got devorced!! Does that make me not fit to run a home? Be a good spouse?!? A good mother?!?! I think they need to set their priorities straight if you said you felt like she was one you could share your life with!!! I feel sorry for you
Why the disrespect to Rabbi Friedman? Have you ever met him? Have you ever heard him speak? So maybe you don’t agree with everything he says, fine. But he is a real chossid, a yirei shamayim, and talmid chachom who has made so much difference in the lives of so many people. It is incomprehensible that you could dismiss such a man in this manner. And the bochur who wrote this as well, we should be thanking him for sharing the lecture with people who couldn’t attend, not pouring ridicule on his head because we are frustrated with our own… Read more »
correct ACT NOW pick up the phone NOW and connect with your friends, classmates, neighboors, relatives or send profiles to [email protected] OR [email protected], they are thanks G-d very actifs, professionals with confidentiality…
You have made the most important statement. If you do not teach you should. Your statemsnt alone is all anyone needs to digest. Thank you!
Please see Rabbi Dalphin’s book of letters of the Rebbe where the Rebbe says clearly that divorced parents should NOT be an obstacle; i.e. it is not an even an issue to be considered.
is it my fault I’m not a skinny model???
from someone wise: We are a generation of complicated souls. Some of it is our own doing, but some of it is the destiny thrust upon us. The knotty world of modern dating is partly a reflection of the complex nature of the modern soul. The search for a soulmate will be made easier or harder depending on what type of soul you have. The master kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria taught that only new souls have an easy time finding their soulmate. When your soul comes to this world for the first time, you are fresh and unencumbered. Your vision… Read more »
We don’t need to worry the Rebbe M’HM Shlita will make the shidduch. All we need to do is to learn the Rebbes’ Sichos that’s hinting the Rebbe is Moshiach
I’m tall and theres nothing I can do about it.
She used the expression not him!
Didn’t know the word was such bad language for a Chassidishe girl anyways!
right on! I couldnt have said it better myself
“Instead of worrying who you’re going to marry, we used to worry how we are going to marry.” Look at the marriages in the older generation of our community; there’s a significantly smaller percentage of happy couples than today’s younger generation. I wouldn’t say they’re “unhappy” couples, but they aren’t the same caliber relationships as the younger ones. People no doubt will be offended that I put this statement into writing, but singles and their parents need to be aware, and RESPECT, that there is a different dating philosophy today, and the old one is no longer as applicable. “A… Read more »
THE PROBLEM NOWADAYS IS THAT THE BOYS ARE LOOKING FOR THE PERFECT “MODEL”. THEY FORGET THAT THE IMPORTANT THING IS IF SHE IS A PERSON HE CAN SEE HIMSELF SHARING THE REST OF HIS LIFE WITH. OR IF SHE WILL BE A GOOD WIFE AND MOTHER. AND THE WORST OF IT IS THE PARENTS GO ALONG WITH THIS RIDICULOUS WAY OF THINKING. SO THAT EVEN IF THE GUY DOES GET ENGAGED AND MARRIED, UNFORTUNATELY SO MANY TIMES IT ENDS IN DIVORCE WITH SOME INNOCENT LITTLE CHILDREN LEFT TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR PARENTS’ VAIN, RIDICULOUS MINDSET AND ACTIONS. WHEN… Read more »
PLZ GET YOUR FRIENDS TOGETHER, THINK FOR YOUR CLASSMATES AND THAT WILL BREAK THE SHIDUCH CRISIS… STOP TO BLAME ON PARENTS, EVEN TEACHERS, MASHPIHIM CAN DO IT “STOP MIVTZAIM AND ACT ON SHIDUCHIM TO REDUCE THAT BIG NUMBER OF OLDER AND YOUNGER SINGLES… DON’T BE SELFISH…DO IT FRIENDS, NEIGHBOORS, CLASSMATES, ETC…SO PICK UP THE PHONE AND ACT WITH SENSE NOW…MOSHIACH NOWWW1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Please get a Rov involved to speak with your parents immediately before they ruin your life.
Your parents are really screwing you life up…you went out with a girl with whom you felt that you would like to share your life with and they don’t want you to date her cause her parents got divorced? How stupid is that?? From what I hear many children from divorced homes turn out to be exceptionally good spouses since they are intent (just like everyone is) to avoid their parents mistakes…
Someone commented that he thought manis only spoke for parents. Well technically it’s true because the main issue over here aren’t the kids. Like was said earlier the kids don’t know what to look for, they don’t know good or bad like any inexperienced person. So here come the parents who obviously want everything perfect for their child and look at everything in the most possible negative way. That’s also why married girls usually don’t love their mother in laws because she’s still getting the feeling she’s not good enough. Since everybody wants to know how we feel about it… Read more »
thank you for all you’re beautiful yiddish words. but how do you say emotionally stable in yiddish?
Realx all those that are knocking this young boy who never dated and is still writing true points. Stop being bitter all those who wrote nasty coments and are wrting out of frustration. It may not be geniuos anything he wrote but calm down. For all you “older” boys and gris. AlI can say as a “typical ” Chabad bochur meant to get married at 22 (lol) (most of my class was already 23 and marreid) who ended getting married at 36 is to keep up a good spirit and daven and beleive that the day will come and this… Read more »
why is it that bochurim who feel ready to get married can do so at 18 /girls as oppose to waiting to 23
I would like to share with you my experience from back in the day when I was going through my own shiduch crisis. I was the first guy of my group of friends to start dating and the last one to get married. I dated more girls than all my friends (uncommon those days) and picked up a few tips along the way. Tips that I have gladly shared with the many friends and relatives, mostly boys but some girls too, who came to me for advise, both before and after I was married. If I have learned anything from… Read more »
I can definitely say that I enjoyed reading the comments posted in this article, although I didn’t make it to reading each and every one. Just one message…. Please spell check before- you don’t need to show the world how illiterate you are! COLlive, thanks for bringing news to our community. I suggest a new feature, “SpellCheck for Comments”. This is just in case some readers’ browsers don’t provide it yet
I was just speaking to a friend of mine. And he gave me this example. Although it is not exact, but it is similar in a sense. IF you are looking to buy a house. It is a big decision, you can be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. So make sure you get the right place, and are happy with it. However you have to be looking for a place to live, and then soon enough you will find a place where you can live. Whatever the place is like, you will be happy, and things will be worked… Read more »
Our community deperately needs Shimshon Stock A”H.
Shimshon, where are you when we need you????
Since a single person does not know what marriage is about, and is clueless to just how clueless they are to the entirely different world called marriage, s/he may think that some extraneous things are important. But those who are married know that only a few things are truly important. Essentially they relate to good and kind personality and yiras shomayim. All other things become meaningless. Even looks can become meaningless if someone is not a mentch. I know a non-frum person who was married to a women who’s profession was and is being a model, and less savory things.… Read more »
#91, Great points you make, my focus here on those issues is that many of us are diverse. Maybe, maybe I am as above posters point out.. I want my wife to be like my mother.. BUT my mother is sweet, silly, deep, approachable, warm, loving, caring, generous, stern, emphasis on the inside.. and every other character trait I deem to be important. So one goes out on a date…. attempting to get a glimpse of the person.. you want to know to really know what your dealing with. Ive seen shiduchim questionnaires that made me cringe.. is it important… Read more »
dont tell us what is right and what is not because when there is a whole bunch of girls who are not married because you bachlor guys want to party and have fun and wait till your 30 to get married to an 20 year old thats the problem it is a busha for you to say to have all the time you want and you have a opinion why dont you be considerate and stop with this chutspa
This is absolutely, the REAL experience of finding your basheret and doing the WORK of marriage. Thank you for sharing your insight.
In marriage, there’s going to be the big “D-word,” DISAGREEMENT. Unfortunately, many of us are intolerant of and offended by this TRUTH, because many of us have assimilated to the secular practice and fantasy of POLITICALLY CORRECTNESS and the idea that EVERYONE’S EQUAL. Married people disagree all the time, just like many parents have disagreements with their children. So, what, now you don’t want to be a parent, because you “don’t want to be like that” as a parent? It is HUMAN to disagree. The biggest CHALLENGE and WORK (yes, marriage is WORK) about marriage is COMMUNICATION. Plus, you and… Read more »
A DVD of Manis’s talk is going to be available soon IYH.
there are some Shadchanem that charge for names and most of them do not listen or understand what the boy or girl is talking about. To fix the problem if you want to go to a shadchen go if not dont go.
shlicus does not always have to be away how about right here and take care of our children here so they dont end up with worse problems.
Yes people got married to get married and how many people are actually happly married, or simply together bec of kids, jewish lifestyle ect
the best people to make a shidduch are FRIENDS,relatives , neighbors and FRIENDS !!!!!so my FRIEND , relative, neighbor and FRIEND please seriously try to help me find my bashert. It’s a mitzva and the shadchanus GELT is a great bonus!!!!
I dont think you should be telling anyone when to get married or when their right time is especially since you are giving yourself till 30 which is your call and your right but at the same token he is right for stating what he stated and he has the right to his own opinion to the matter and to his personal experience with the dating scence and its surrounding drama. Lets be considerate.
#90
Define skinny? if a guy isnt attracted to her physically its a issue, myself personally I am repulsed by overmakeupd women who look like ancient egypt. Cooking is last on my list.. and I do my own laundry tyvm
To be honest, I dont have a image of my future wife.. I just see her smiling, thats all that counts
#59 you’re right on!
AIn Od Milvado!
Why cant someone express their opinion without being criticized for every thing, if you disagree at least have the maturity to write it in a respectful way and if you cant dont write this is definitely not going to bring moshiach.
Good job for posting your opinion and may you find your bashert asap
ADVISE FROM CHADCHAN YES YOU SHOULD START TO DATE YOU ARE BEING SELFISH NOT TO TRY, SHE’S THERE LOOKING FOR YOU, YOU ARE JUST MAKING VERY HARD FOR HER AND YOUR HALF TOO -INSTEAT TO GO TO YOUR GARDEN, GOATS AND COWS. I THINK YR PROBLEM IS MORE DEEPER IS TO COMMIT AND BUILD A LIFE = NOT IN A FARM WITH ANIMALS = BUT WITH MATURITY SO BE SERIOUS… FROM CHADCHAN
I think I can sum up the problem with 2 facts…
1. The guys want skinny girls with good looks who can cook Shabbos just like momma does and will worship their husbands
2. The girls want TALL,good-looking guys who earn big bucks, go to movies, and learn night and day.
And you wonder why singles aren’t getting married???????
I never said those thina aren’t important–what I said wa they don’t make or break a marriage. Obviously you have to be attracted to your spouse… But that doesn’t mean that you should put looks first on the list… And of couse money is important but many families have financial issues and their marriage is still intact. So Yes, I stand by my previous statement that money and looks are not what a marriage should be based on.
Agreed! but goats… really!?
81- It was for parents.. Hopefully soon they’ll make the classes as the author described and suggested.
85- You are right. It is all about the mindset. Focus on the right thing, and things will work out..
#84,
Really.. you city folk ought to explore the big beautiful world G-d created..
and got married at 21 and was not at Manis’s talk and this ‘Kid’ knows what he’s saying. and all of you ‘Older’ guys and girls who are bashing him… what you shouldn’t marry who you want? look for who’s perfect for you? maybe on the other side of the world someone’s better? …. you haven’t looked in the mirror or heard yourself talk. YES, you get married cuz Torah says to YES, you get married to the one who shares your values, who you see yourself raising Chassidishe children with NOT to the one who ‘seems’ perfect to you… Read more »
Goats and horses, really ?”There are many complex and unique guys and girls out there”
#80,
Its #77.. I also want goats and horses 🙂
We also need to re-examine the job breakdown.. not all women are great cooks, why shouldent the husband cook too?
A marriage without love is a seasonless world where you laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears. That is a sad unfeeling world. I believe we are seeing the results of thinking we can attach to anyone including G-d without genuine, authentic love. You may live together, share a roof and children, yet It is not possible to become one without a melding of your souls; that can only be done with genuine feelings toward another. I think if we were to really do some serious soul searching we would see our… Read more »
I would have loved to go, but from the way it was advertised, it appeared that it was meant only for parents. What a shame – can it please be done again, and advertised for singles as well? That said, I want to thank the author, as well as the more intelligent commenters here – you’ve helped me understand something. My perspective on marriage is in line with what Rabbi Friedman says – bh, I am glad I had the opportunity to hear him speak before, and when I was going out recently, I was quite happy with the process,… Read more »
I like that philosophy…. gardening than shopping….
Yes be attracted to her. But make marriage the priority. Not who it will be. And yes there is a perfect match. But not a perfect girl. As Rabbi Friedman said last night: No matter how great she will be, after a week you will be sick of her. Unless you are a husband and not a man. You want to be part of someone else and work at it.
Funny how you wrote a long comment, but nowhere did you mention anything about being happily married.
I see so many people in shul who have been married for a while who barely speak to their spouses. I can’t even begin to tell you about the countless times that I have been invited over for a Shabbos meal and the bad vibes between husband and wife make me uncomfortable. I just don’t want to end up like one of them.
I must agree with many of the posters here. There are many complex and unique guys and girls out there… Look, i’m 25 year old guy.. I dont get any shiuduch offers.. why not? I dont worry it though, i just find this whole shiduch crisis to be laughable I dont want a bland date.. I want to share my personalty, express my views and opinions.. I as well as other guys I know, are looking for women with more personalty.. I feel like girls out there are way shallow.. maybe many guys are too I dont know.. So heres… Read more »
Marriage is one of the most important decisions you’ll ever make.
DO NOT take it lightly. DO consider looks, DO consider parnassa, DO consider middos. Consider EVERYTHING, and do so carefully, because marriage is a life-long commitment.
If I had done what some are suggesting here, I would have married the wrong girl, because it took me years to find my bashert…..and yes, contrary to what many are saying here, there is such thing as a perfect match, I have been married to her for almost 10 years now.
Good to see that some young people are approaching marriage sensibly.
The others can rant and attack but they’re single and for good reason.
It’s interesting to hear all these comments about “old school style.” I’m certainly young and my experience and outlook was totally as suggested by Rabbi Friedman. I think one advantage of starting dating young is that you are in an idealistic mode, fresh from seminary where these ideas are as common as the air you breathe, fresh from BR’s habayis hayehudi classes where you hear Rabbi Paltiel saying: “kinderlach, choose wisely. What kind of a grandfather do you want for your grandkids?” As much as this sounds “old school” it is the Rebbe’s approach! Living and breathing this isn’t “old… Read more »
TY!!
The Baal Shem Tov said that it says in the Torah “”I stand between you and G-d.” The problem with some people getting married is the “I” stands in the way.
You are MY HERO! sounds like it would make a great reality show we can call it “The Bochurim”
what manis friedman is saying, is not that you should just get married without thinking because that’s the desire of g-d. What he is saying is that you should get married with the reason why you are getting married being that you want to fullfill the will of g-d. In other word he is saying that you should put away your own desires and think that the main thing is that I have to make a binyan adei ad with which to serve g-d, now with whom could i fullfill that goal with best is the question. Other people are… Read more »
total hogwash.
If we had waited for the perfect spouse, my spouse & I would never have married anyone. And if we weren’t prepared to overlook each other’s imperfections we’d have been divorced within a year. We’re now grandparents B”H & very happy.
QUESTION: Is there a tape available for people to buy? If so, please post contact information. Thanks.
Interesting perspective. Never heard that one before. I guess it’s a good problem to have if you’re decisive and know what/who you’re looking for.
20 YRS AGO NO ONE HAD TO TAKE A CLASS ON HOW TO GO ON A DATE. MOST OF THE REMARKS HAVE NO CLUE. MANY YRS A GO,A NON OBSERVANT JEW ASKED ME,HOWS IT POSSIBLE YOU GUYS GO OUT FOR A WEEK AND GET ENGAGED,AND WE HAVE TO GO OUT FOR YRS AND EVEN LIVE TOGETHER AND WERE STILL NOT SURE. WELL I EXPLAINED TO HIM IN A NUTSHELL,THAT WE AS OBSERVANT(CHASSIDIC YIDDEN) KNOW HOW WE LIVE AS YIDDEN AND WHERE WE ARE GOING AS FRUM YIDDEN,SO WHEN WE GO OUT ,ITS BASICALLY TO SEE IF WE MATCH PERSONALITY WISE.… Read more »
It’s #43 here. Wasn’t trying to patronize you C”V. I don’t even know who you are. I was simply trying to make my point more obvious. No offense intended.
It appears that you recognize that SOME compromise(s) will be necessary (“I agree there is no such thing as the perfect spouse”), but you write “it means not settling on things that are meaningful to me”. Sounds like you already agree with Rabbi Friedman. If so, you’ll be fine. You probably won’t become a part of the crises.
Hatzlacha and Bsuros Tovos!
You cannot intellectualize or reason matters of the heart. You just make the SACRIFICE and have EMUNAH, which, together, with your basheret, will elevate both both of you to a level of existence that you will not attain on your own. Do yourself a favor and refer to the book, “The Committed Life,” by Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis. It’s 19 CENTS, used, on Amazon.com. Then you pay like $5 shipping.
“Reach NOT with a full mind, reach with a full HEART.” Chesed v’ Emunah, l’chaim!
actually that is correct that money and physical attraction should be of little importance. (just look in the igros and you’ll see a lot on that subject). Does the average bochur who comes out of smicha have a job? No! But the average bochur seems to be able to live a happy married life. Money is of little importance. It’s your life goals and being able to implicate those goals is what’s important. And that’s the main thing of marriage: 2 people who have similar goals and views, which they together can implicate them and help each other out with… Read more »
single girl, never dated before (because of the supposed crisis)
This is my line: don’t ask me about my dating life, we’re in a recession.
vihamayvin yuvin
Where is the wisdom from previous generations – the knowledge and the WORK that’s being done in OUR OWN HOMES to mentor/coach this generation? Where are the fathers, sitting down and talking to their boys at the appropriate age? Where are the examples being set IN THE HOME – so it doesn’t have to come to someone else doing the parenting for them, like Rabbi Friedman (G-d bless him)?
message for young people. as if a color blind person is telling other people that it is silly to expect to see colors, that it is not necessary, that it is enough to see shapes.
This is all very interesting. . . How about we look at the JEW. . . in perspective a bit before diving right into the whole marriage concept. . . JEW – is this walking contradictional hypocritical radical. . . shifting back and forth from holy vs. impure. Good Inclination Vs. “evil” inclination. We walk around, with the hold Torah as our guide. . as human beings. Having G-D, Hashem, on our minds constantly. After all we were put here on the earth, for a purpose. . . We are told, that, everything, EVERTHING happens for a reason. That, we… Read more »
i was told that the girl dose not want to go out with me bec (i new) she went out with my cuz a few weeks before yes it was not for him but im a little difrint then he is but thats the way people are learn to live some times one is not for you but give it a try
IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO CONSTANTLY HEAR HOW GUYS ARE CLUELESS AND SHALLOW AND……. I COULD GO ON AND ON HOW MUCH RIDICULE IS POINTED TOWARDS GUYS. SHMULY BOTEACH HAS BEEN QUITE AN ADVOCATE OF THIS POSITION THAT THE AMERICAN MALE IS VERY SHALLOW. DENNIS PRAGER BEING ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL TALK SHOW HOSTS OF THE COUNTRY TOOK ON SHMULY BOTEACH IN A DEBATE ON THIS ISSUE, AND FOR ONCE YOU CAN HEAR A SERIOUS APPROACH AND PERSPECTIVE ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE. I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO VIEW THIS DEBATE 5 PART VIDEO http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8660906537484001607#docid=-8676952075716773317 MAYBE ITS NOT… Read more »
you 23 year old should get married before you tell others what to do or think mabe after you get married you will relize the truth i have dated meny times i dont think these thots i just think i need to get marrid by the age 30
I agree there is no such thing as the perfect spouse, yet, at the same time Im just looking for someone who is “perfect” for me. And when I write about never compromising on ones happiness ,that is not parallel to compromising on the boy I choose, it means not settling on things that are meaningful to me . Please don’t patronize by assuming I want someone who is attractive and would settle despite the fact that he is “dumb as a doorknob”, this example seems to imply that you don’t understand half the people you are helping through the… Read more »
I only have one comment. Mannis Friedman has children… tell me how many people he turned down for his kids that werent from the right family or have the right amount of money. He is deffinitely looking at the little things as well!! Its human nature to want the best and find the most compatible person for you… So dont be hating on the guys and girls that cant find their match right away. Its a very difficult process which I hope you never have to go through!
common! stop being close-minded and sick. Something is wrong in your OTDDS mind that you cannot understand simple life. Every human being is different, chassidish or not, a chassidish boy may be not married due to his family name, while a not chassidish boy (with a prestigious family tree) would be happily married. The pint is not chassidish or not! the match is made in heaven, B4 YOU WERE BORN, so if one becomes a little chilled in his teenage years, his bashert is still the same girl and he will marry who he is supposed to. G-d is in… Read more »
I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE YOU. YOU ARE COOL,AND I’LL BET YOU HAVE GR8 KIDS. YOUR HEAD IS SKEWED ON TIGHT AND IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE> YASHAR CHOIACH!!!!!!
#40 writes about her husband, “cute – but no stud”. Where does a woman who says she married a chassidishe bochur come off using such lishonos?!
Good for you,
So well written, all the haters stop, if he would not have mentioned his age or dating history,
what would u say then?
respect his honesty, I am 26 and been dating for a while and completely relate to what he is writing, very impressive
Every single person should take Rabbi Hertzel’s Shidduchim Bihalacha class which focuses on every single point that was ever mentioned on this blog using actual sources and structured thinking. It is amazing and essential learning material for boys and girls. It teaches everything there is to say on the subject from the original sources- Torah, Gemara, hashkafa, Chassidus, Rebbe’s letters etc. Thanks to the class I now know if shidduchim are bashert or bechira chafshis and where meforshim differ in their opinions, what the torah says about prepartion for marriage, age of marriage, smicha or college before marriage, how to… Read more »
1. Is there an audio or video available of Rabbi Manis Friedman’s lecture in question 2. Raboysai – there is no need to insult the young bochur/author, even if you don’t agree with what he said and I give him a Yasher Koach for his efforts 3. There does seem to be a shiduch ‘crisis’, otherwise it would not be mentioned in the Pan Kloli at the Ohel or at gatherings of Anash 4. I agree with the pyramid theory (that bochurim have more girls to choose from) and therefore (maybe) they lose perspective 5. I think that many young… Read more »
If our community looked less upon family stature, financial stability, hierarchy and the like, our children would be far better equipped to date appropriately and choose suitable marriage partners. If we want our children to marry with the goal of building homes al taharas hakodesh, why don’t we show them that this is all we truly care about?
I rarly post on Collive but i just want to say my opinion. I think that the people who get married a bit later than the everage tend to have a more relaxed marrige with not so much self image cause they are more mature. If you get married at 20 years old im sure you found the right person but you are still not old enough to understand that you marry who you want not else wise. For an example, if you live in a very frum community and where if you get a job after marriage e people… Read more »
Marry someone who suits you and you suit him/her. Marry someone you want to be with for the rest of your life. Marry someone who shares at least some of the same interests you do aside from Torah. Marry someone down to earth. Marry someone you won’t constantly need to be compromising with, wiith neither of you happy.
I’ve helped many friends/family through the Shidduch process and I have a little secret for you – THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE PERFECT SPOUSE! How’s that for old school? If/when you get married, you WILL compromise on something. I GUARANTEE it. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner you’ll get married. So what are you willing to compromise on? How about if you found someone that was otherwise perfect but wasn’t the most attractive? Not good enough? What if he/she was attractive but dumb as a doorknob? Work better for you? Rabbi Friedman’s point is that you should… Read more »
This is amazing! a young man writes what he is taking out of a lecture and look at half these comments of put downs and name calling at him and Rabbi Friedman. Everyone is entitled to their feelings but this is rediculous. I agree with 29.
goo luck
I was reading this and found this quite interesting… I am young still, and my teacher actually brought this up in class today… there are some people who are just looking for “the perfect one”, but is the person only basing this decision on the way the person looks? There are some really nice people who have EXCELLENT Middos, but they don’t necessarily look so pretty/ handsome… In my opinion, people should look at the Neshama (like it says in Perek Lamed Beis in Tanya) and then one may truly come to love someone… There are some people who are… Read more »
….and I looked for the IMPORTANT things – Midos -Yiras Shomayim…15 plus years later, I can say – that is the ONLY way to go. I did not get married because I liked his style (hated his glasses) or his looks, ( he was ok, cute – but no stud), or was cool etc – he was just a hardworking, intelligent, chassidishe bochur that was aidel and nice. And 15 plus years later, I can say – we are the best of friends, finish each others sentences, respect each other, and are truly in love. Manis is on the money.… Read more »
This is from R. Friedmans facebook page / Rabbi Manis Friedman: Love is not an important consideration in marriage; even when the love is not there, you cannot just walk off. Marriage is about becoming one with another person. That is why divorce is terrible. Just because you do not like how your leg is, does not mean you go ahead and amputate it. Being married does not make you friends. It makes you ONE.
17 hours ago · Like · Comment
#35
i think the venom you have, is a big part of today’s situation
Sounds like Manis Friedman is on the right track but sadly, seeing many comments here, the young (or not so young) people are not. Not only do they disagree, but many are quite nasty. Maybe that’s why they’re still single.
For those who think M.F is out of touch and old-fashioned and that the modern approach of singles events and years of dating are the way to go, please don’t whine to us about a crisis. You think your way is the right way at 27 and 37? Enjoy singledom.
Great article! thanks so much!
I am not a moron but I know that the truth hurts;you think thath your so learnt and sofisticated and evenmay have a parnosa and daven and learn but yu guy missed the whoe bunch line. or u didnt miss it but der Emes Tut Vei yove made yourselves a clob in all yur little shus that spring up and you think that what makes you hollly Eir zuchnt nechtigen schnei
I agree with you entirely! The idea that I should marry simply to get married and give up the search in finding the “perfect” person for me seems ridiculously old school. I am absolutely fed up with older people imposing their inadvertent and shtetelesk ideas on me ! Young people, actually think for themselves, and , without a doubt, know that just because there is a crisis does not mean they should EVER have to compromise their happiness!
amazing — so true!
There is a core group of women in Los Angeles who are dedicated to help singles in California. They are open to speaking with different city groups or individuals about singles from other cities(Montreal,Chicago,Miami…..)
Their e-mail contact info is SNLA770@gmail .com
(Shidduch Network of Los Angeles)
# 16
you might have a point, someone has to be employed on a sallery and someone that truly cares for todays youth and not for profit making
22 is right
wonder why you are not married? have you listened to yourselves speak? you bash a young person, for no reason whatsoever, simply because he voiced an opinion you disagree with. you do it in a degrading, nasty, hurtful manner. oh, my bad, YOU are the ‘mature’ ones, and he is the ‘baby’. just a few simple rules in life would take us all a lot further: be nice. be polite. don’t hate on others that said, you all sound frustrated and hurt and i can relate to that. dating scene can be trying, painful, and discouraging. keep your spirits up… Read more »
# 22
am afraid you are wright, in the perfect chasidishe world, but your not in the perfect world, we need to understand our youth to help
your a moron
Physical attraction and parnassa don’t matter? Really?
Are you saying I should go marry a bochur whom I am not attracted to, and who will not be able to support our family because these are just small details that don’t make or break a marriage?
Thanks, but no thanks.
.
I was at the event last night and the writer is totally, 1000% on target, as was Manis Friedman. Al tistakel b’kankan — this fellow has never been on a date, but he got it. (And I’ve been married for 30 years.) And Rabbi Friedman didn’t say not to scrutinize the person and family before you date — he said to make your lists, but not to rely on them as if they were written in stone, because your bashert might be different in some ways than you expected. A girl swears she’ll never marry a redhead, and then she… Read more »
It was great, inspiring and entertaining to here Rabbi Manis speak and bring out some good points. However, one thing really bothered me about the speech, the fact that he does not have to back up his statements with facts. How can he comfortably make a statement “everyone will find their bashert”? Although, I understand that for many or most they will and it will do them better if they didn’t worry. However, how does that work for the ever growing minority? Yes, it’s nice to sound encouraging to people and to turn a blind eye but sometimes you need… Read more »
all I can say is, WOW , I am a parent in my late 40’s with children to marry off ,even more so amazing, we all need to know the way you all see things, the way you express yourself is what we as parents and shadchonim need to hear, Why don’t you get together a few guys and a group of girls to give lectures to groups of shadchonim through Rabbi Mannis and start teaching them where you’r all holding, maybe that might be a start.
Our values haskofos are of. A bochur who is involved in doing the correct thing thruout his yeshiva years and is emotionally stable, they dont have these ridiculous ideas. most bochurim that are 26,27,-29 are looking for what?? it’s a game they are like the hunter ,trap them and then disgard them . A true yeshiva Bochur vos tut vos men darf un Tracht vos men darf un horevt oif zich 95% are married they dont look ,Think dos vos Mdarf nisht . You can farbreing or even work and have shiurim , but your out for lunch you need… Read more »
smicha is a joke today everyone and anybody can get it .its all money under the table.get real people,parents make sure he is a mentch first good midos !!!!!
Thank you. was unable to attend for I don’t like in CH, and I really appreciate the thoughfulness of sharing what was spoken of.
Really? a 23 year old guy wrote this? Its great that you are 23 and have “been trying so hard for so long” (and yet never been on a date).
Hey Mr. – unless you started “working on this” when you were 17, you havent been working on it even remotely close to as long as some of us out there. keep your inexperienced and foolish comments to yourself.
I wonder if Rabbi Friedman addressed the fact that many years ago Lubavitch was much smaller. When Rabbi Manis got married in the 1960s, there were perhaps several dozen available girls to consider. Today there are literally hundreds of marriageable aged girls/boys available. It could be a full time job just finding all the names. Nevermind researching each one of them. This also causes a lot of indecision even following the proper focus the Rabbi speaks of (i.e. have I really considered ALL my options? Perhaps there’s someone else on the other side of the world that’s more suitable)… Shiduchim… Read more »
Obviously research should go into the process and people shouldnt get married before they know that its a good decision. I think what was meant by that statements was that people now are focusing too much on the details that dont make or break a marriage–such as looks, money, etc. The perfect girl (or guy for that matter) is not the basis of a marriage… Look to find the person you can build a good strong jewish and chassidish home with…not the person who could pass for a model their spare time…
shadchanim have 1 goal; to make the shiduch happen. whether OR not the two are right for each other. they lie. they dont pass on messages or feelings accurately. Intentionaly. thay dont care if both people wake up every day for the next 70 years wishing they had died in their sleep. thay lie. shame on them.
For all those people who are set on their way and are burned out. Then go happily in your way. For the rest of the people who are interested in learning and changing, good for you!
start dating a little and you well get an idea of the real world
Marriage freaks me out. I see so many couples who lose the love and don’t have holy homes that I’m just not rushing into things. I think that when I date someone I think will be a good husband, I will be ready to get married.
…..”The problem, Rabbi Manis was telling the crowd, is that singles are looking to marry the perfect girl, instead of looking to simply get married”…….
Are you serious Rabbi Manis?
You are telling Bochurim, that in making the most important decision of our lives, a lifetime commitment, we shouldn’t carefully scrutinize our decision?
What a preposterous proposition!
By coincidence I was in town interviewing many bochurim and girls for shidduch purposes when I heard Rabbi Manis Friedman would be lecturing. I decided to attend and I think he hit the nail on the head because I see it daily. His poignant point: Are you getting married? Are you seeking a husband/wife? Do you understand what it entails to be entering into a marriage relationship? are questions that are not priorities by many. It is common today for young adults to date for mulitple months more than 20 times yet they are no closer to getting married because… Read more »
No one is opposed to the age. In fact many people do date people their age. The topic at hand is what are the guys and girls focus? Is it to get married? Or is it to find a nice girl. Worry about marriage, not about who it will be. You date to discern if the boy or girl is right for you.
Im a bit confused.
You get married because it is the right thing to do and because it is sacred.”
What is that supposed to mean??
That you should just get married because its holy??
There is no doubt that marriage is sacred but it doesn’t take away from the fact that a person needs to marry someone that is right for him / her. They cannot just get married to anyone – because its important to get married…
I don’t understand what he was trying to say but it didnt come out so well…
there is a big problem out there the problem is that the parents are the ones looking for the boys and not being realistic who the girls really for the girls who say they are looking for a guy who dose not wear jeans or he learnt smicah (its all coming form the parents) its time the parents to let up and look at who there daughters are let the girls have the say if they don’t mind if the guy wears jeans or had smiach we are leaving in a new world smicah today is not what it was… Read more »
Sorry kid, write as well as you want and use the all the fancy words you can find, good luck finding any agreement and/or respect from anyone who has been in the dating scene for a while now. Dating is not easy and can be painful if not frustrating at the very least least, so you little pisher with your fancy writing as if you its so simple and you already have it all figured out from going to one inspiring lecture is not going to get much praise. Kudos to you though for working on yourself and trying to… Read more »
Assuming that we all have the right attitudes, there still is an issue: There are more girls than boys. With each passing year the population grows. The girls were born a few years later than the boys they are dating. There are therefore more of them. How bad would it be if we parents would feel just fine if the boys and girls were around the same age? They say girls mature earlier. So what? At the age we tend to get married, we are all young relative to life experience, and certainly have no marriage experience. A boy and… Read more »
It happens to be that some of this stuff is not said enough. It is unfortunate that you are burned out. But if all the people who you went out with, and yourself included, thought the right way, I think you would be in a different situation now. But hey, who knows?
you are 23, never been on a date, you sound young and fresh and eager. Half of what you wrote here is nothing new, and to the burned out- ‘been there done that’ – 27 year old, well they just cant relate.
get back to me when you have dated for 6 years straight..err well rather hopefully you wont have to.
so when is the first class?
I’m beginning to lose faith in Rabbi Manis.
I don’t see any practical advice in this.
amazing! so well written, and so true!