By anonymous
My friend called me. I couldn’t miss the frustration in her voice. Her parents were pressuring her to drop the person she barely began dating. Why? Ummm, they weren’t crazy about him.
I’m giving someone a lift home. My passenger’s phone rings and he almost shouts, “I’m telling you, he comes from a good family. She’s marrying him—not you!”
These two incidents within a week and my suspicions based on personal experience are confirmed. Well-meaning parents are making shidduchim and marriage more difficult for their children.
You see, it all starts with parental expectations and social pressures. Mother wants a handsome son-in-law to proudly present to the Bubbies. Father wants an Ohelei Torah type of bachur because it’s the wavelength he’s comfortable with. Mother would be so embarrassed if the mechutanim family is on the “nebach” side. Father wants a well-established family, because why settle for less?
And then, the shadchan wonders why I’m picky.
No, you mean my parents.
All I asked for was a goodhearted, mentslich, mekushar boy, and I tossed in some adjectives for personality type.
With each suggestion, my parents found something “not so shayach for our daughter.” I tried explaining that I’m totally cool with it and wouldn’t mind meeting the boy after checking out the references.
My parents’ constant response: “No, not him. We’re not chas v’shalom desperate! Hashem will send your bashert who we’ll all be happy with.”
Wait, you can’t be serious. What happened to all the nice talk about wanting ME to be happily married? And what about that no one is perfect but Hashem? Oh, and remember how you explained that it’s the boy’s middos tovos that are priority?
Parents— it is time to stop lamenting how “Uch ‘n Vey, there’s such a shidduch crisis.”
It’s time for parents to re-evalutate. Are you making it harder for your child’s bashert to reach him/her? Are you putting up meaningless barriers based on the things YOU want for your child?
Yes, we absolutely know you want the best for us. But is the best based on your perception and desires? Will the looks, family status, background, or whatever else you want in your son/daughter-in-law really count to making this the spouse YOUR CHILD will be happy living with till 120?
To all the shadchanim out there, please do us a favor and be persistent. Names are not disposable. If a parent tosses a suggestion into the garbage heap and you feel there’s real potential, please ask to see if the CHILD agrees with the decision. After all, aren’t we big enough to get married?
Oh, and maybe some community leaders out there could arrange some inspirational lectures for our parents and shadchanim. I have this big gut feeling that if parents and matchmakers are reminded about priorities and the right way to handle shidduchim, a lot more people would be heading under the Chuppah.
I know a few older singles whose pained parents regret “missed opportunities.” If only they were more flexible a few years back…
Dear Ma and Ta, I do not want that to be us.
I’m a young man and my family and I are geirim for 9 years now BH. Personally I believe I was raised well, have good midos, and was always on the orefront in yeshivah. Now reading all these comments about BT vs FFB, geez, is there no hope to marry into a good amily? We really have to stick to our “own kind”?
To 112: The pasuk says look at their brother–not their father. Look at how the kids were raised and if they’re chassidishe kids–not at whether the great-grandfather pished in nevel. 115: Every single person who is Jewish today’s ancestors were moiser nefesh for yiddishkeit. Every single Jew today went through pogroms, holocausts, expulsions vechulu. Just because you were lucky enough to know–for no zchus of your own–that your family came from Nevel or Lubavitch or wherever–why does that make you or your ancetors better then mine? I know my great-grandparents were chassidim in Russia but that’s all I know about… Read more »
to 20 :when you said this, is the same like the other jews are nothing because there are not only a baal teshuva but if is not frum THIS JEWISH ARE NOTHING???
you cant make this diference ALL JEWISH HAVE A NESHAMA AND CAN BE A GOOD FRUM PERSON with the time,so its scandalous to read this about a jewish he supposed to be so religious person or whatever you sayed that you are!!!!
you have to understand all the other jewish too ,not only your uncommunicative world
Jess
BS”D comment #29 is probably one of best and most practical comments I’ve seen 1st it’s written by someone with experience – a parent who married off all of his/her children 2nd it gives a practical balanced response to the issue at hand without losing the “bird in the hand”, the shiduch system that brought us to where we are today It is a great response since it would work equally well if the article writer, who makes a good point, is accurate about her issues or is miss-guided and immature (I’m not disagreeing with the writer, but the issues… Read more »
good for you #101 and #121, tell it like it is………finally the frustration of us “older” BTs of many years is leaking out, (or maybe gushing out); we are wonderful, wonderful and wonderful, until shiddach time comes, then we are wonderful from a distance or for the proverbial shabbos meal invitation or for our check writing abilities, After being away from CH many years and post Gimmel Tammuz, I am finding it incredulous that this segregation between geshe and BTs still exists!
to 137… that’s it… The Rebbe’s opinion on this matter is that there is absolutely no contradiction and to go ahead for it!
I read at least one letter in Eternal Joy, where the Rebbe makes it very clear that there’s no problem with it… in Volume 1. You can read it and show it to your parents…
I don’t really can not see what is wrong with a Ashekenaz family marring a Sepahrdic family, so long as they are both good, normal families. Maybe you should get somone who is open minded about these thing, your parents both respect ( for ex a rav, rabbi, or friend that they would listen to) to talk to your parents and intereven on your behalf
Dont know if this is the right place to ask this question since sooo much has been discused already
But what about a so called ashekenaz marrying a so called sepharad knoing that they both come from normal lubavitch families??!!
I am trying to convince my parents that there is nothinfg wrong but i cant…
Anyone can help me
Thanks
Your welcome number 132, anytime and have a great shabbos yourself 😉
thank you 132 i appreciate that
shabbat shalom!!
sorry, all the links that I posted before just lead to chabad.org, which is not what I wanted.
Just try this: go on to chabad. org and search the mamar “Borei Niv Sifasayim” and that should give you a start.
Good luck!!
Sure thing, there is a lot to learn here are just a few.
http://www.chabad.org/parshah/article_cdo/aid/1329/jewish/Sin-and-Sanctity.htm. as well as:
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/145512/jewish/Part-II.htm
&
http://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/137090/jewish/Tzaddik-The-Baal-Teshuvah.htm.
Hope this helps 😉 As we are in the month of Elul, it is important for us to remember that we are all Baal Teshuva’s, as we all sin(most of us) and return again!
I AM INTERESTED TO KNOW WHAT THE REBBE SAID ABOUT “BAAL TESHUVA’S”? PLEASE TELL ME OR TELL ME WHERE I CAN FIND OUT? THANKS 🙂
in the end HASHAM not you is the final word we think we have all the answers and are in charge there are alot of unhappy couples out there girls know what you can live with and what you cant guys look for a person not a dress size or hair color looks fade but the person on the insidealwaysstays the same im so sick of all this bt ffb its all garbage if a person is a mentch and GETS YOU the nits will work moms your son is human look for a HUMAN girl who will raise your… Read more »
#70 you say chassidish don’t have a shidduch problem they have worse l”O a divorce problem
What you have written is very true. I can attest to that myself.
However, that does not mean that we should sit on the couch with our feet on the ottoman and Mr/Mrs perfect (bashert) will come knocking on the door.
Parents cannot keep throwing out suggestions, since they don’t “fit” their own criteria.
It is a) their child who needs to live with their spouse until 120. and b) If their child is ready to get married, then maybe they can have some input into deciding if they would like to go out on this date too?
Parents and Shadchanim don’t have the koach to interfere with a shiddach that has been decreed 40 days before her birth. Nor can they delay it. If it is meant to happen, it will happen in the right time no matter what any other person does. Only the couple themselves can affect it in any way.
To all worried singles out there, don’t give up hope.
The same G-d who split the Yam Suf can find you a match.
Miracles do happen. I’ve been priviledged to see it myself.
Bt’s: Be proud that your parents or you yourself had the courage & humility to change, recognize the truth & to change lifestyles around. Not everyone can do it!!!! YOU THINK THAT’S NOT MISERAS NEFESH? THINK AGAIN. Read what the Rebbe taught about BT’s!!! The Rebbe’s whole mission is to reach out to Jews everywhere because of the pure love he has for you & me. Stand up tall & straight.!!!!! There is no need for anyone to feel superior or inferior because of geshe or not. The most main point is how you act now, geshe or not. Hamase… Read more »
geshe wanting to marry geshe, does NOT at all undermine the virtues of a ba’al teshuva. Why do bts feel that when they arent chosen as a geshe’s spouse, they are looked down upon?! Their sacrifice and acheivement truly is remarkable. but, is is very fair and normal for geshe to look for the same quality in their spouses family. There are lots of special traits out there, everyone is entitled to choose the traits that they value most. That does not put your acheivement down ib any way. If you are a bt and your children were raised frum,… Read more »
We all, as Lubavitchers, should gain inspiration from the ancestors of the gezhe families within Lubavitch. One way the girls of Beis Rivka have been presented with these role models, is that every year (in certain grades), each girl in the class has to pick a member of their family and report on all of the mesiras nefesh he/she showed for Yiddishkeit during their lifetime. How do you think the Beis Rivka girls feel, who are daughters/granddaughters of geirim and BTs, when this assignment is given. It is institutionalized humiliation! I think it would be far more valuable to include… Read more »
for BTs, many who sacrificed greatly to become frum and follow the Rebbe (at least are trying). I am so tired of hearing about how certain people had roots to those who sacrificed for chassidus in Russia, etc. What about the generation right here who gave alot of blood, sweat and tears for their own yiddishkeit and that of their children? These are the modern day stories of inspiration, quite over looked and under appreciated.
no we wont
and it needs to be discussed openly
and if you cant take the discussion
then go put your head back in your bucket of sand!
stop insulting the gezhe people!
This is #96 You’ve made a very good point. Obviously, it is important to investigate the family of a prospective shidduch, because, understandably, they have a profound impact and influence on a person. It is interesting though, that Rashi there (Shmos 6:23) uses the expression “livdok b’acheha” which means to investigate the brothers. That is what should be done. The details of the person’s family should be INVESTIGATED open-mindedly and objectively, and conclusions should be drawn only after gathering meaningful information. What seems to be the problem that’s being discussed here, is that parents are writing people off straight away… Read more »
Dear Bt Family, The point is not that geshe is not special, it is.The point is that each individual should be judged based on their own value, just like you did with your husband. An individual who comes from a geshe family, yet has not such great personal qualities , his/her geshe alone is not worth much since it did not affect him/her on a personal level. Only when an individual emulates, or at least tries to emulate his/her grandparents or greatgrandparents then his/her geshe is worth the pride.Likewise a person can come from a rotten or simple background, yet… Read more »
thanks
i needed to hear that
i sensed there was something there
appreciated it
but didnt quite understand why
makes sense
thanks so much for commenting
may your children be so special that they find they best beshert (omain).
looks like 112 wrote semi-french style -some of the “ch”=”sh”
anyway, loosely translated/background:
Aharon HaKohen married Elisheva, the daughter of Aminodov, and the SISTER of Nachshon (yes, the one who jumped into the yam suf….)
Rashi says on this – from here we learn that one who marries a woman should inquire about her brothers.
Im from a geshe family from both sides, dating back to chassidim of the alter rebbe. I believe there is something special that a geshe family has that others do not. My family risked there lives and died for chassidus and for other Jews. It brings out a certain strength of character in a family. It isnt an elitist view its just recognizing something distinct abt your family and looking for the same in the family you marry into. I chose to marry someone from a bt family, because of my husbands special qualities. I am aware that my children… Read more »
what is this BAAL TESHUVA VS FFB all about?
please someone explain the “unacceptedness” about a BAAL TESHUVA…he/she cannot be accepted into a geshe family because he/she is a BAAL TESHUVA and has an unfamilier last name and does not ring a bell in the ‘lubav family”? what is THAT!??!?! anybody know what the REBBE said about BAAL TESHUVA’S? some insight would be extremely appreciated…
can you translate?
there is another possuk : “Elisheva bas aminodov ACHOS NACHSHON“
and rashi saids : Mikan sheamischaten beicha ichal beacheo
the leaders, as well as all of us regular people need to start creating more unity with jews. all jews alike. I am not saying that this means geshe should marry not geshe. I am simply saying that more unity and less segregation is in dire need. The Rebbe, after all, is the one who taught us this. And He left it up to us to bring Moshiach. So lets put our personal needs aside,even for just a little and rise to the occasion. We need to hear the leaders more. this is not enough. If there are leaders out… Read more »
we need ppl like you…write more often
I come from a bt family & I wouldn’t want to marry a geshe.(unless the boy or the family was truly tolerent & respectful & normal to others) I think the bt ‘s out their are perfectly fine & good. I really don’t get what the fuss is all about. BT’s Be happy that you do not have to marry into such segregation i,t is very small thing for people to get into these “fixed truths”. I once went to a ” good & well known shadchan” who the minute I open my mouth just to discuss the ‘geshe” thing… Read more »
I think the hypocrisy in our system is why so many of our kids fry out. On the one hand parents supposedly install the teaching of our Rebbe, and on the other there is naked hypocrisy on how we treat other jews, just based on our juvenile desires, not at all what the rebbe taught. Of course they will disrespect their parents and go of the derech. grow up already.
is this Rabbi Goldman and others like him for real???….geshe is highly overated…his viewpoint is myopic, antiquated and naive; further he needs to be majorally enlightened and de-programmed……………….
Try Rabbi Kantor (snr) at [email protected].
Over many years we have talked to him and he has been a fountain of wisdom and a good listner. Ksiva VChasomah tova
You outline and describe the same feelings I have regarding this issue of shidduchim and the way is handled today within Lubavitch. Kol haKavod that you did it. I want to add that also children that comes from broken families and gerim and children of gerim are unfortunately not even given a chance neither. And unfortunately neither the lady that wrote the original “complain” about her parents deciding for her, neither other of the young boys and girls in the shidducihm scenario, will have the courage to really break with the situation, because they are children of FFBs or “old”… Read more »
Obviously looks matter, but it is shallow for the mother to demand “she be beautiful”, as if that is the most important thing. And if it is, how are we different from the secular world?
And, again, then what kind of mixed message are we imparting to our children?
To #102
Thanks for the compliment. Who am I? Oh, just a concerned citizen… 😉
Your writing is refreshingly clear and possibly the best written comment on this site yet. Who are you?
Gezhe seems to be a word reserved only for Lubavitchers. Everyone else’s chashivus is referred to as Yechus. My family are descendants of Rashi, but who cares in Lubavitch? That’s yichus, but not Gezhe. If a boy and a girl are “off the derech” but both from Gezhe families, each family will seek the other out. They still don’t want their “heilige” children marrying an “outsider” or a BT family from 40 years ago. If a BT today has anything whatsoever that may compromise him or her, forget it, in this uncompromising elitist fraternity called Gezhe Lubavitch. Also quite often… Read more »
Dear Rabbi or whomever,
What you said is true but please remember the Chasidishe Yidden who masered others and sent them to the Gulag, to save their loved one’s. Until today there are ‘Gezehe’ families which reject such families out of hand.
For someone who is able to discern between crude and not-crude language, I am quite surprised that you aren’t able to extract information from what @69 wrote. Quite clearly (well I think it is clear, correct me if I am wrong), @69 was making a point that he thinks that the main point of marriage is the joining of two unique souls, and not about which family you are marrying into, since all families have their ‘dark’ sides to them. This point does not in any way negate the importance of having family/mashpiim guide you in this important step of… Read more »
Oh wow you are inspiring
Agreed.
This is #69 I did not mean to say that family is irrelevant. Family is extremely important. But ultimately they should not be the ones DECIDING who their children marry. Suggestions, advice and approvals are fine, but the final decision lies with the boy and girl themselves. If I were to be influenced by my family– which, unfortunately is rife with intermarriage– whom to marry, I wouldn’t be in a good place at all! Rashi says on the above-mentioned posuk quoting the medrash- “Mikan she-ein masi-in es ha’isha elah midatoh.” The marriage has to go ahead with HER knowledge and… Read more »
To 71- S ome Geshe knock on the doors of those 5 families you mentioned AND on those of the doors of bts working. What planet are you from??? Last week 2 people from Geshe families came to my door asking for $5000 for the Shluchim office telling me i was in the ‘select group’ of people they were approaching,that beacuse he was such GENEROUS guy he would allow me to pay over a year or two;, They also said that in Cown Heights there are only 5 families they can go to , but where I live there are… Read more »
go for it!
dont let it slip away
a mashpia is nice but if not, try to get a mutual friend to match the both of you
What about the case alluded to by Ms. Maness — when someone who didn’t know they had yichus, discovers they truly do???
Even BTs can find out they are gezhe!
What does the shidduch world do with that kind of situation? If it’s a BT, does it get ignored? Or what?
My spouse recently found out their family tree includes someone whose commentary is found in every chumash!
Does that mean we’re gezhe now? (I bet not!)
Go to your mashpiah and discuss the matter with him or her. Follow the mashpiah’s advice.
What should a boy/girl do if they fell they know a good shidduch for themselfs?
Maybe the rebbe should have had seperate lines for ” real jews” and the the b.t./gerim.
Hasn’t a BT that stuck around in ch and raised a family and sent their children to the chabad system “proven ” he /she is just as good as the frum from birth- you know the ones that are all frying out now????
No that is not true that hiskashrus is found more in geje. I know people from bt families or bt themselves who are deeply, deeply connected to the Rebbe.
l forgot to add the family name,Heifetz, any one know of them? there from chicago,from before ww 1. if anyone knows anything please contact us scmaness@gmail thanks
And why would the author of the article want her name published?
With the kind of communication between her parents and her, doens’t seem likely this would go down to well with them…
Let alone the rest of the shidduch community (other parents)….
A word to parents. The Shulchan Aruch clearly rules that if man wants to marry a woman and his parents object, that he does not listen to them.
I feel like articles such as these would be a lot more credible if you posted them along with names.
learning in 770 is not wasting time. Sorry. I as a single gir l would prefer someone who sincerely learns in 770 then someone who is involved in other matters. The fact that some do it for the wrong reason and hence do waste time is a different story for a different time.
People who are judgmental of single are to be pitied the most. Usually it is the people who point fingers at others who have something lacking in their lives or themselves, may Hashem help them!
If your one of those ppl that thinks you know why a person is single, stop,(no matter what your “reasonings” are I have no words to describe how arrogant it is, and how poorly it reflects on you as a person. The least you can do is stop such judgmental thoughts and speech & the very best you can do is actually help instead of judging, obviously to the best of your ability, since we all have a collective responsibility.
just leave it, and have pity on such a response
Very true
Perhaps you attitude is wrong. Trust singles in the choices that they make just a little bit more, and sometimes it can take a longer, because that is how Hashem wants it, even if the person does everything write. No one should judge anyone because no one knows the reason behind why things happen the way they do.
we just found out that my mother-in-law’s grandfather was a chassid of the rebbe (chicago) all the way back to the alter rebbe and my alta grandparents were tolner chassidism,who are brothers with the square rebbe,these are two of 8 brothers of the chernopal rebbe,who just happens to be a couisin of the alter rebbe. personally,a person has to look at the individual,each person has challenges that the abitchter gives them,tests, to work on themselves,as all souls are recarnation of previous souls that were sent back down here to fix something,as that’s how the rebbe insist that we bring more… Read more »
Does your child like him/her? let them get married!!!! you’ll be happy when your child is happy. isn’t that true?
At last, you are not the one who’s marring him/her.
Another problem we see is that boys and girls refuse shidduchim all too often even when their parents push for it. And very often without a proper basis. If you dont give shidduchim a chance then obviously it can take longer, Hashem yirachem…
May I propose a radical idea?
No Pictures before the first date. When you get to know someone in person, what’s inside becomes more important. A beautiful/handsome person on the outside (but not on the inside) won’t look so beautiful/handsome anymore. But if you reject someone based on a picture, you may have missed out on meeting someone really special.
I thoroughly enjoyed that moshul.
WHAT MAY I ASK IS THE ACCOMPLISHMENT OF ARTICLES THE LIKE? I FIND IT POINTLESS. THE OUTCOME JUST INCITES FURTHER RECHILUS, LOSHON HORO. IN MY OPINION, NOTHING RATHER,BUT HARM, ON MANY LEVELS RESULTS OF NONSENSE LIKE THE ABOVE. ARTICLE, AS WELL AS COMMENTS……………………….
I AM A MOTHER OF CHILDREN OF AGE.. MY ADVICE, BE SENSIBLE AND DISCRETION IS ADVISABLE. NO QUESTION EVERY PARENTS WANTS WHAT IS BEST FOR THEIR CHILD. DIFFERENT STROKES FOR DIFFERENT FOLKS.
HAVE A NICE DAY!
To #69 and others who think that the family is not relevant and the focus should be almost exclusively on the couple – Do you think that boys and girls “dated” back in Europe and North Africa? They did not! Parents arranged their matches. And yes, “like” married “like.” There was no such thing as the water carrier’s son marrying the lumber merchant’s daughter, no matter how fine that son was. It was not even a consideration. Orphans married orphans. Poor married poor. Well-to-do married well-to-do. Unless the boy was an outstanding yeshiva bachur and the girl’s father was willing… Read more »
You wrote, “So interesting how many Geshe’s and their like, knock on the doors of the ‘working’ Bt’s for money for moisdos and peulos.” You mean like Drizin, Gurary, Spritzer, Rubashkin?
About the mother of the boy meeting the girl before the couple meets, that is standard practice in the Chassidic (Polish-Hungarian) world. Both parents meet the girl. Both parents meet the boy. This is before the boy and girl meet. You know what? That Chassidic world does not have a Shidduch crisis. Perhaps we would benefit by learning a thing or two from them about how to marry off one’s children.
As someone who as chosen to wait a bit before getting into the whole shiduch frenzy (I’m a 23-year-old bochur), I am saddened, but unfortunately not surprised to be reading stuff like this. A marriage is between a MAN and a WOMAN. NOT between the PARENTS of said man and woman. I believe parents should be consulted for advice but the final decision should NEVER rest in their hands. The Torah says about Rivka “nikra la’naarah v’nishalah es piha” (Bereishis 24:57). That’s right, SHE made the decision, not her parents. I can’t stand when the simcha is all about the… Read more »
maybe 35 is not the official emes expert in town. Many yichus families are extremely emesdik , some sadly don’t have anything else going for them but there yichus, and these are the ppl who can insist on the best , when they are far far from it.
I wouldn’t want to have such a mom- in-law no matter how good the bochur is. I feel that I am lucky beyond words that these “yichus” families don’t want anything to do with my simple, but normal and sincere bt family. thank g-d!!
I couldn’t have said it better myself!!
One point i might add though, it’s extremely frustrating when people don’t get back to you at all. They might think it’s better to egnore you then to say “no” but let me tell you, hearing no is much better than not hearing anything at all. It’s only the right thing to do…. Why keep someone waiting?
U are funny !!!!!!!!! Everyone read # 48 !!
what is so terrible about wanting to see a photo of the boy/girl before they go out? looks are not the main thing but a physical attraction is a big part of compatibility.
good luck everyone.
BAAL TESHUVA BAAL TESHUVA….(the minute u hear it, SHE/HE ISNT JEWISH!) that what u make it sound like…wow…being a chabad baal teshuva all the way, i am disgraced to have read ur comment!
PLEASE EXPLAIN: WHAT DO SHLUCHIM DO???? its thanks to them that i am a frum girl today for 3 yrs BARUCH HASHEM! ! also, do u know who the Rebbe is?
Who are we to demand that our children / ourselves will only go out with someone between the height of x and y. have the hair color range of white blonde to strawberry blonde with a dress size of -5….. we are not creating someone to go out with and marry…. if there was a single out there who is extra special in middos, haskafa etc but doesnt fit the physical criteria do you think it is right to ‘pass up’ the opportunity to meet?!?!!?
Would you let your 20 year old son or daughter who JUST tried for the first time to drive a car, drive through the rush hour streets of manhattan? Of course NOT…
Why then would you want them to decide for themselves on such a critical issue such as the person to marry for life – without any real life and marital experience???
The son and daughter should be consulted but the parents must ultimately give their approval and advice.
So interesting how many Geshe’s and their like, knock on the doors of the ‘working’ Bt’s for money for moisdos and peulos. It’s ok to take their money but not to marry off their kids to….
It is all very nice blabbing about how a person must look at the pnimius etc, which of course is true, but a marriage must involve also a physical attraction, as any Rov involved in shidduchim will tell you.
It is obviously a spoof, as nobody thinks this way today, if ever they did. Check any geje mishpacha, and you’ll find it has more skeletons than a graveyard. having said that, the article rings true, and parents (myself) need to focus on the important things, and help our children focus on the important things. Most importantly is to remeber that the guy or girl with ALL the maalos was not yet born, and when he is, he doesn’t want your daughter!
Without think for a second I can name 3 cases of families I know where this garbage is going on & let me tell you, it’s not limited to “gehza” families either. In at least 2 of the families drowning in this boat there are THREE kids who are “on line” waiting for someone who is good enough for them (translation: GOOD ENOUGH FOR THE PARENTS!!) In ONE case, we wanted their child for ours. WE were prepared to ignore the parents’ shtick because we recognized how special the child is. But the parents stopped it before first base &… Read more »
Mothers let u’re son decide if he likes her looks. There is just so much u can pick, the rest is in his hands.
A shadchan just told me about the mother of a “good,chassidish boy. The mother yelled at the shadchan saying she Demanded to see a picture of the girl first. She said,” do you see my son?”, implying he should only get the best! And what is the best? A girls looks. You mothers expect your sons to be so “CHASSIDISH”, and then you act so shallow and only care about looks. As a B.T. who grew up in a very affluent area,these people sound more shallow then a lot of NOT FRUM people I knew and know. Your priorities are… Read more »
you write:
“Hate to say it – not many geje families are really emes these days. it is the BT families who are”
Hello! Are you the official emes expert in town?????????
Is it that hard to spot a bored teens comment. Just ignore 20 and 25!
stop taking these comments seriously, dont u get it these are leitzim just trying to see how much they can flare you up
Specially written by a girl that I agree with 100%.
You are totally right, and that is why the children, and specially the daughters need to be more assertive and not let your over protective mother take care of things for you.
No matter how many “inspirational leaders” talk to your parents, your mother will never get it
IT IS THE DAUGHTERS THAT NEED TO MAKE THEM UNDERSTAND.
Right on!
I’m a single girl. My parents refused to allow me to meet a boy whose family happened to live in the same community as ours. They told me straight out that they wouldn’t be caught dead in the same picture as that family. The family was fine in my eyes. The parents were a bit interesting. But they were very kind and sincere people. Even more, the boy had an excellent reputation.
I wish they would have read this article then (5 yrs ago). I may have actually gotten married.
Your comments are shocking and sick. You are a disgrace to Chabad. To go so far as to state that marrying a BT is regarded like marrying out of the faith, you are clearly an ignorant disgusting human being.
yichus is like a carrot… the best part is in the ground
yes there are some parents that know their kids well, but what about all those that don’t?
When I have a suggestion for someone I just call them straight up, it’s much easier to deal directly with the person, less confusion and they really know best.
The lyrics to “Matchmaker, Matchmaker” are: For Papa, make him a scholar For Mama, make him rich as a king For me, I wouldn’t holler if he was as handsome as anything!
I am a half breed… One of my parents came of the boat from Russia, and the other was a traditional NY Jew. Remember a child of BT that has grown up in CH is FFB. There is a huge cultural divide with the two types of familys. stereotyping. A FFB that grows up in a BT home, has parents that WANT to be frum and chasidish, and struggle to get the hebrew right. The FFB that grow up in FFB homes live with parents that HAVE to be frum, and struggle to have any real meaning in yiddishkait both… Read more »
what’s the difference between geje and yichus?
explain please!
well done! well written, well put!
yashar koach
Its a pity you dont share the Rebbe’s Views on this.
In the 60’s when a prominent Lub Rabbi from NJ (and Shliach) married 2 of his kids to BT families the Rebbe (our Rebbe, the boss and decider on how we shoyuld act) gave him a personal Yasher Koach.
for mama,let him be handsome,for papa let him be as rich as aking,for me oh i wouldnt holler if he were as handsome….
i guess this isnt such a new problem
actually, parents do have to be involved in their children’s shidduchim. This is not to exclude the opinion of parents. If a parent strongly feels a shidduch is not right, then the child should certainly not pursue it blindly. However, if a child really like a certain shidduch and the parent wishes to break it up because the person is not what they imagined for their child, or their motivations are not really pure, then that could be problematic. Hashem should help parents and children to work harmoniously together and to find their children’s basherts easily and in a good… Read more »
its middos period.
responsible…
emesdik
hiskashrus to the Rebbe – this is something the Geje’s do have more than BT’s sometimes. This is something than runs deep in the veins of a person – and that sort of thing does get passed down.
i have to admit it.
sad but true.
in response to dear anonymous, i highly disagree!!!! it makes no difference if your parent is bt or not. you can have children of bt’s who are super chassidish and kind and sweet and you can have a crown heights family with a strong yichus and the kids are chas v’shalom (lets put it mildly) not that chassidish! that is why you cant put off a shidduch for petty things such as yechus and bt’s. you need to do research and see if the boy and the girl are compatable, not if the parents have a yechus etc. .
the parents have to want it because it reptresents them and if they dont like it it can mess up the marrige!!
To # 20- you write ” wouldn’t want to marry a bal teshuva family. You have to stick to your own kind. I mean, you wouldn’t marry out of the faith would you?” Sorry but there is no comparison between marrying out of the faith, which is a Halachic prohibition, and marring a BT, which is perfectly Halachcially permissible. So you don’t want to marry from a BT family, that is OK. Just don’t cloak it in righteousness. Be honest. Say you are a bigot, because that is what you are. Do us a favor, keep inbreeding…. would love to… Read more »
let’s face it, geje have a lot to learn from the BT’s and the BT’s have a lot to learn from the geje’s.
if the geje’s get snotty, then their yiches isn’t worth a dime. I know geje families who are judgmental status seekers. Hardly what a BT family is looking for – a BT family wants real emes. Hate to say it – not many geje families are really emes these days. it is the BT families who are. Yes, i mean what i say.
Amazing!!!
Stop thinking so highly of yourselves. what so the girl should wait for that gasha guy who is sitting on his back side doing nothing with his life, and is sitting in 770 because his parents believe that it will get him the top girl on the so called market, or just maybe the parents should settle for the boy from a bal tishuva family who has real ethics and ambitions in life, and is working, and going to school thinking about a way to support his future wife and is not sitting in 770 and wasting his time..
bts r very much our own kind
This is truly disgusting! I was SHOCKED to read your comment! I didnt know that BT and gezhe have a different faith!
nobdy respond to number 25 dont get heated up its a bored teenager like myself trying to add some spice into the conversation
BH all children married. Most with the 1st shidduch they met. But that was because we knew our children well, our children had trust in us, so when they met someone they knew it was “pre-certified”. We did not have fancy requirements; first and foremost: a good hearted kind person. You never go wrong with that. We rarely said no to a shidduch, only “not at this stage” – because who knows? With time maybe this will be the best. On the other hand we were clear not to mislead anyone. If it was a remote possibility we would say… Read more »
How can you say such a thing?????!!!
I am from a Bal Teshuuva family and I can tell you that my family is a lot more functional and normal than most geje families.
But this is very often the problem and I think it is very important that if the parents would be a bit easier on prospective shiduchim it would take care of some of the problem.
It is about time people realized this. It’s only right to look at people with a good eye. Barring you make sure they have the proper yichus.
Gezhe is the only way to go. If you want your kids to have a future and some meaning in life. The only thing that matters is that our zaydes ‘hut gepished in nevel’. There’s no two ways about it. I hope people realize that. It’s explicitly stated in Gemara, invei hagefen b’invei hagefen. Yes there is a point to give someone a chance. But their yichus is all that matters. Go Gezhe!
i agree with every single word!!!!!
This is a very important article and as a shadchan I have seen this happen all the time. I wish that parents wouldn’t be so inflexible about things that aren’t really so important in the long run.
well writen thx alot
Speak to a repectable (repected) rav or mashpia and have them speak to your parents.
I know I know, such “activist” leaders are far and few in between.
Try Rabbi Kantor (snr) at [email protected]. He has guts and is very (quietly) successful in such domestic issues. He is also someone most people (parents) can look up to.
Looks do count, and of course where the family comes from. I wouldn’t want to marry a bal teshuva family. You have to stick to your own kind. I mean, you wouldn’t marry out of the faith would you?
do you know how lucky you are to have parents who care enough about you to help you pick a suitable shidduch?? for us baal tshuva’s out there, we are alone. so relax a little, your parents might know what they are talking about!!! and be thankful that they love and care about you!!!
It is not a problem for parents to care about what is best for their children, I think parents must be involved to protect their children from otherwise emotionally clouded and sometimes immature mistakes.
It is a problem however when parents don’t know who their children are or rather don’t WANT to know and hold out for type of boy or girl that truly will be incompatible wih their child. Parents must learn to accept their child for who they are. The “product” at age 21 is not going to change much no matter how much wishful parents have.
yup this is unfortunately true!!! I have witnessed it myself
Boruch Hashem that phase in my life passed!
right on the nose
Very Very Well Said! BTW i know somebody if your interested.
that many of the underlying problems mentioned in this article are also contributing to the high drop out rate? When our children see that we are hipocrits — that our actions don’t reflect our speech — they lose faith in the “system.” When they realize what really makes us tick, they decide that they don’t want to have anything to do with it.
sad but really really true PARENTS STOP RUINING IT FOR YOUR CHILDREN listen to what they want you had your turn to choose its their turn now
BH
Finally an article on this topic worth reading. As a father of marriagable age children, I will rethink how I am approaching this subject.
Hatzlocho to you. May Hashem Open the way for you in this Choidesh Elul.
Ceseeva vachaseema Toiva!
was this article really writen by a single? Or some well meaning Shadchan? bec most single as well as older single families are really not that extreame. sorry.
I am a mother too, and believe me I check out the girls?boys my kids go out with but I always get back to the person within a few days that they called me whether Im interested or not it should’n’t take longer, its just not mentslich
WHOA!!!!!!!!
We don;t have those ‘musts’ on our lists. We don’t feel snubbed. We;re looking for life goals/midos/similar hashkafas. BTW, plenty of kids have tossed aside names that parents have researched, so It’s not only the parents. Net/net, when a shidduch is meant to be, the Aibeshter can move any obstacle, and it will be.
They check, and check for weeks and finally get back to u and say its not for my son, do the basic searching and for youre son’s sake let him have some say in the matter too
and say after extensive research we decided against it!
Some of the MOTHERS today go so far as meeting the girl 1st, before her son goes out.
Same goes to the parents who don’t want their children marrying children of BT’s. Most of my classmates were children of BT’s, that’s our norm, we’re comfortable with it.
this is so true. A shidduch just came up for someone I know and it looked really promising and then at the last minute the parents of the boy backed down without citing any reason, just saying it is not shayach….. why? give it a chance. There was so much in common. A lot of potential. Parents have to let their children go out as long as the shidduch looks good and the children are interested. Yes, maybe the parents want something “better”, but how can someone evaluate a potential match without even meeting the person, or allowing their child… Read more »
Parents need to stop taking as much charge as they are now, and let the boy/girl make the decisions Of course Parents, they no doubt will want to you help!