Jun 20, 2010
Shadchanim, Do Your Job

Shidduchim SOS: After marrying off her children and arranging 9 shidduchim herself, Mrs. Riva Denburg of Miami Beach writes to COLlive what she thinks of Shadchanim and the Shidduchim process.

By Riva Denburg

I always said that I would write my "Tell All" on shidduchim after our last child gets married and that I would even sign my name. Well, here goes.

I have been involved in shidduchim for 8 years (since my older sister started with her children). For many mothers out there that is not such a long time considering, but every mother will say how different each child’s shidduch process feels and how with each consecutive child it seems to get harder and harder.

Today, the system of that time-honored approach, a shadchan as the intermediary whether it be a friend, an uncle or a neighbor happens less and less. It is of course the best way, since presumably this person will know the boy and/or the girl and will set up a date for the couple that they firmly believe has a chance to become a shidduch. But a lot of things happened to this ideal and in time some well meaning people became "official" shadchanim in Lubavitch. The thing is we really aren't in Clymovitch, Nevel, Schedrin or Anatevka anymore either.

Our community has become too big and too diverse to continue in this casual unprofessional way only. As a business woman I can see that no one can run a business with too much product and not enough sales.

Yes, my friends, if Shidduchim were a business it would be bankrupt.

Unfortunately too many shadchanim treat it like a business but without the heart a new business owner injects into his work to make it succeed. I understand that the shadchanim have busy lives of their own, their own children to marry off, their friends and families to deal with the constant phone calls, the pleas, the frustrations and stress. But...

But, if they took upon themselves the "official" title of shadchan for our community, they have to accept the responsibility. I know the system needs changing and I have many ideas for a proper shidduch system to be put in place, but a person who accepts the holy work of a shidduch has to be aware that they hold not only the life of a young girl and boy in their hands but also the entire families of the girl and boy.

How often have we as mothers lamented that the younger kids in our families are constantly bombarded with shidduchim talk? The stress permeates the home and family no matter how the mother tries to handle it discreetly among the younger children. Also, these young teenagers grow up quickly and sometimes they develop a cynical attitude and instead of embracing the excitement when it is their turn, they are hardened and weary from it all.

When a person accepts the mantle of being the shadchan for a shidduch between a girl and boy they should feel that they have the yoke of the world upon their shoulders. They should treat it as the most important mitzvah they can ever accomplish. In fact I believe it is the most important mitzvah! It is the mitzvah Powerball. It is chesed, it is Hakoros Hatov, It is Ahavas Yisroel, It is new generations of families, and I can go on and on.

Everybody gives a little laugh when they say the statement that a shidduch is like splitting the Red Sea - how difficult and miraculous it is when a shidduch comes to fruition.

I like to think of it in a slightly different context: How miraculous it is, that YOU were given a chance to make such a miracle happen! How unbelievable is it for you to have been given a chance to be the shliach for establishing a new family, new holiness for our world? Treat it as such! The effort, even if it doesn't work, is also huge. One takes time from their daily lives, they worry, it takes precedence, and it takes away sleep, personal time. Etc.

I have made 9 shidduchim in between my times as a mother with children to marry off too. I know how hard it is to be involved in it. I know how many times I cried to my husband that I can't do this; it's too much, and it's too hard. But, when I hear of a new baby being born to my BH happy couples, I thank the Aybishter for making me a shliach to such a wondrous mitzvah.

The main issue is the same across the world I find, whenever I speak to friends and acquaintances, the shluchim families, the business working families, everyone across the board: The shadchanim DO NOT call back.

Why do they give their phone numbers? And now, they can text! They don't have to get into lengthy conversations. They don't have to wait for the time zones to line up! Just email or text, or yes, call back “Hi, I received your call. I will try to get back to you in the next day, I am thinking of your child.”

How many of us have not received a call back and let the waiting build to frustration? How many of us have given up and lost self esteem from the pain? It's just a phone call! Are the shadchanim listening? It’s your job! How can you not call someone back, especially when you know a father or a mother is waiting anxiously for that phone call?

To you it’s another name on an exhausting long list of requests, to the mother or father at the other end of the line it’s their child, their life.

I understand the dilemma, truly. There are only several hours in a day and you have to compartmentalize. Especially those of you who have other full time paying jobs. But if you are known as an official shadchan, BE ONE! Show respect to the process. If you arrange a date for a couple, make sure you tell the boy and his parent to call EARLY the next day to give a “review”.

If they live far away, tell the mother to speak to her son after the date so he can call back the shadchan himself if it will take too long until the mother or father can get back to you. Remember there is another family waiting to hear. The boy always gives the first response. If it is an unequivocal no, call right away too and tell the boy or girl. If one of the parents does not call back quickly enough, you, the shadchan call the other side. Show respect. That is really what shidduchim are all about? Respect for the family.

I am not going to get into the issues of the pretense or the "incomplete" information that is given by the shadchan to the families, but that is not their fault. No real estate broker will tell you how many holes the roof has, but he will say the building looks great. It’s your job as a parent to look into the boy/girl, to get information that will give you that feeling, yes, this can work, or no, "It does't talk to me."

If the shadchan “knows” something and doesn’t tell you, that’s another story. I always asked when doing my due diligence, is there something that I should be asking and did not? If I heard too long a pause.. it means to check further. Sometimes parents do make too many phone calls and that can be negative because we all know that every question, or thought you express to the friend of a boy or girl will get right back to them immediately.

But that is an article for another time, the dating process itself. This is about our system and how it can be fixed.

I have a proposition for the Vaad of Lubavitch whoever they may be. I know that Rabbi Moshe Kotlarsky takes care of the shluchim and their families. But who is the person busy with the kehila? Why can’t we set up an organization for shidduchim? An official organization with a board and vetted shadchanim. Perhaps voted for by the entire Chabad community. Salaries would be given to the shadchanim for their services so they don’t feel unappreciated by the kehila.

Shadchanim wouldn’t feel more motivated to work on shidduchim for people that will pay them rather than people who cannot pay for all the effort a shadchan thinks they have put in for a mazel tov shidduch.

Every girl after seminary or a year of shlichus whenever she feels ready should come for an official interview, with the shadchanim. The shadchan should interview her with a parent and then alone. A Bochur should get interviewed the same way after smicha. At that time he pretty much knows if he is going on shlichus or business/school. He might not as of yet discussed it with his parents but the shadchan has to be clear on what the boy/ girl is looking for in a spouse.

Then, the shadchan can actually make suggestions based on some personal knowledge instead of hearsay and a “resume” that reads like a hallmark card. I think it can work.

I know that many young people do go for interviews but often it is treated as a furtive, slightly embarrassing show. The shadchan is in middle of making dinner, or running into 770 for Maariv and glances at the bochur. That is not what I mean. A comprehensive application and a common sense matter of fact approach.

We all of us agree, our community is in crisis with this issue. We have so many things to contend with but one of the main issues is the constant influx of girls and boys coming from out of town to live in Crown Heights for shidduchim. Many come without family, or contacts. The friends they made in seminary are also busy with their own families and shidduchim.

This can be a bonus to parents out of town and I am sure that a registration fee would be a righteous expense since the shadchanim would meet the girls and boys.

The shadchanim would have to have weekly meetings to discuss progress, to divide the shidduchim according to their individual strengths and the group should be equally divided among women and men. Of course an attorney would be needed to provide confidentiality agreements for the office.

We have to take it out into the open. An official organization, an office, a matter of fact approach, optimism for the community and for sure a more unifying approach to this parsha.

I meant no disrespect to the shadchanim I know. In fact our last shidduch happened only because I trusted the shadchan (so thank you Raizy).

If we all agree to stop being passive, to stop complaining and to work on this as a community, we will not see lovely older girls walking and commitment-phobe young men passing them on Kingston Ave not seeing that their zivug is walking right across the street.

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Opinions and Comments
1
To Riva Denburg
a simpler solution to the entire crisis would be, for parants to stop looking for new families for themselves and rather look for prospective mate for their children.
the amount of times i hear a mother say that that FAMILY is not for us, its ridiculous. The whole getting married has become more about acquiring a new family and not about finding a mate. So, so long as the priorities of parents is who the other FAMILY is, rather then who the person is, the amount of busy Shadchonim will never matter.
(6/20/2010 11:58:06 PM)
2
GREAT IDEA
HOWEVER these shadchanim are called shadchanim not because they officially appointed themselves. |They are doing as much as they can on their own time and once they have a chazoko of succeeding in making shidduchim they are called a shadchan.They are self employed and can put in how much time they want.
Yes, there definitely has to be a system as you describe but we cannot blame a shadchan for not doing their job because it is not their job, ||they are not working under anyone , they are trying their luck.
Remember they don't get paid when a shidduch doesn't work out.
(6/21/2010 12:28:22 AM)
3
WOW! WOW! WOW!
can't wait for all the comments on this one!!!
good luck!
(6/21/2010 12:29:20 AM)
4
Thank you
I like the idea of a base fee for everyone-it's like a modern day version of the white dresses that were shared on tu b'av. The effort put into marrying each individual should truly be equal.
What you are "proposing" sounds promising in theory, but it really is a tremendous undertaking and needs a strong group to spearhead it. Personally, when I consider what responsibility generating a marriage entails, I find it very daunting and afraid to have any part of it. Good luck selecting those people and then I'll support the cause.
(6/21/2010 12:47:05 AM)
5
Right on Riva!
Riva, I am on the other side of the coin right now meaning I did not yet start marrying off my children but I am real close. And I am scared! The shidduchim that I have been involved in ( girls that have taught here or counselors) are exactly like you say and worse! I was mortified when one of the girls described to me how she was treated by a shadchan! It was very obvious why! She was not from any big name and financially it would of been not worth the shadchans time. I think your idea of an organization is brilliant. Halavai it should happen! I begged the girl to speak before a forum and relate her story just so the shadchanim would see the damage they do ,but I think your way is better! Good Luck and may it be up and running soon so I may take advantage of it myself!
(6/21/2010 12:49:54 AM)
6
finally!
thank you for writing this article. i think you brought the point fourth straight and clear with a feasible solution. I hope the shadchanim will hear and listen to your advice.
-a single girl
(6/21/2010 1:10:17 AM)
7
B"H satisfied...
B"H after marrying off 3 children K"AH, I could say that I had basically one very devoted, caring and helpful shaddchan. Shidduchim is his side job and he does have a growing family K"AH. When the girl and boy would be out on their date he would be so involved that he would stay up until they would come home. He felt like it were his own children. Shaddchanim do deserve alot of recognition and Shaddchanus money once the Shidduch goes through and even during the process, if they are working hard they deserve some type of payment. I see that because they put themselves up as Shaddchanim, and work hard, Hashem helps to make them the Shluchim for this Mitzvah to take place. So, yes kudos to the Shaddchanim. Keep up your holy work. (I don't know if the Shaddchan would appreciate if I would publicly announce his name It usually goes by word of mouth). If I see a sincere response to this comment maybe I will give out my email address so that I could share with you the information.
(6/21/2010 1:28:00 AM)
8
"An official organization with a board and vetted shadchanim"
I agree with your analysis of the situation, however as you mentioned, official shadchanim seem not to treat their position as one of responsibility and achrayus. Hence your suggestion to make an official board with salaries, I believe would lead to more abuse. Just as the american economy will pick up through small businesses and the private sector jobs and not through new big government programs, so to this crisis will be solved by private individuals like yourself who can initiate new ideas and tactics how to go about this dilemma. There is one such group called "The Chicago Shidduch group", and I have heard it has had success. Individuals with new ideas, not official boards.
This year in america is anti incumbent, and if you want to keep your position, you need to win the trust of people. I think the same standard should be for shadchanim. If you don't keep up to the standard of the name "shadchan".......

Much success
(6/21/2010 1:30:00 AM)
9
nice
intense but nice actually i have a daughter dating right now shes a dream, tons of offers she's smart,preety,talented, popular but picky she can afford to be picky i mean,more offers every day but this time i think it's the one she's on her 5th date with the same boy hope i soon look into halls
(6/21/2010 1:46:21 AM)
10
Very nice.
Very nice article but it doesnt deal with the real issues that effect every boy and girl... another fact not mentioned is when you have a shadchan who takes $175 for a 10 min conversation just so he can put you on his list and then never call you with any suggestions. i think he should be forced to pay the bachur back. I refuse to go to a shadchan who charges just to sit down and meet b/c i feel they dont have feeling for what they are doing. you are very right it is our lives and feelings that gets turned upside down with every shidduch that gets brought up. we are sick of it...
(6/21/2010 1:49:32 AM)
11
act fast
Whatever ideas you have, make it happen fast. Young people are dropping out of the shidduch system like flies or taking matters into their own hands. After all, for how long do you expect a capable young lady or gentleman to wait around for "someone" to show up for them.
22 year olds, 25 year olds, 29 year olds, 35 year olds... Talented and bright people. You think they'll be patient with the parents and shadchanim forever?
(6/21/2010 1:51:43 AM)
12
SHOCKED??!!
YOU MAY BE SURPRISED BUT THERE ARE ACTUALLY SELFLESS INDIVIDUALS OUT THERE THAT AREN'T 'OFFICIAL' SHADCHANIM THAT ARE ONLY THERE TO HELP PUT SOMETHING TOGETHER. AND THEY DONT CHARGE A NICKEL!!!'VE WITNESSED IT FIRSTHAND PERSONALLY. THEY GIVE UP MUCH TIME AND ENERGY WITH NO COMPENSATION.

SHIDDUCHIM NEEDS TO BE PERSONABLE, THE SHADCHAN NEEDS TO GENERALLY CARE - NOT JUST ABOUT THE $$$ THAT MAY COME AT THE END.

FIND SOMEONE THAT WILL ACTUALLY HELP YOU - DO RESEARCH, MAKE A FEW PHONE CALLS AND SOMETHING MIGHT HAPPEN. SOMEONE THAT CARES. IT MAY EVEN BE SOMEONE THAT YOU DON'T KNOW WELL. IT WORKED FOR ME BY HASHGACHA PROTIS SOMEONE BECAME IN TOUCH WITH ME AND HELPED.

(6/21/2010 1:56:26 AM)
13
Lets make it happen
you have your head on straight and you should lead this shidduch system.
(6/21/2010 2:04:16 AM)
14
shiduch for business!
Hi mrs. Denburg at first you say is should not be a business which I totaly dissagreed w u. At the end u say it should be run like a busisenn wich I am totally screaming for decades!!!!
You should have collage educated therapists with high degrees on the bored! You should have a fee system in place not just a bonch of yentes setting up our childrens life. They should have qualifications towards what type of peronalities will go well with each other, as @ose to the shadchonim we have pulling names out a hat! And I don't blame them, why shouldent they. U caled them and they enjoy gossip so heck let's make some $$ while were at it. And don't tell me u can name 1 official shadchan that is not a "yente"!
(6/21/2010 2:13:53 AM)
15
hmmm
Thank you Mrs. Denburg, and kudos to you for signing your name - that was gutsy - as you can see I don't have as much guts as you.
That is a well written article with many important points that people need to think about. The problem is we all look to the heads/ leaders/ community coordinators to undertake our suggestions, but they don't really exist. So, if you believe in this enough, YOU will have to make it happen. Because there is noone out there, that will now take your suggestion and make it happen.
So many good ideas that so many people suggest, we all have to understand that if we want something to happen, WE have to make it happen. Not look to that invisible someone else who will make it happen.
I try to tell that to myself whenever I believe in something passionately enough - make it happen!
I have learned in life, don't complain, do something.
I write this not as a critique of your article - I think it was very good, but as a practical suggestion. You seem like an organized, caring, efficient person - can you make this happen?
Thank you for hearing me out!
(6/21/2010 2:23:49 AM)
16
grab fast
after marrying off 2 girls and 3 boys im confident enough to say this when my oldest was 17 we called the shadchan yes i know it sounds strange but we acted fast she started hunting around and a month after she came back from sem she was engaged
(6/21/2010 2:25:56 AM)
17
Viability
In order to keep such an organization viable, there has to e some incentive system or turnover. Otherwise, it'll end up like some of our yeshivos...
(6/21/2010 2:45:03 AM)
18
still working it...
Thank you for your insight in this very difficult process. I agree that people should be paid for the work they do... and I am very willing to pay. But I would like to see them do their work! I have paid many shodchonim only to be ignored when I call or worse, insulted by them. The system is just so difficult to navigate these days and our children are suffering.
And to #7... I would love to meet your devoted and caring shodchon. He sounds very special and unique. You are very lucky.
(6/21/2010 2:47:10 AM)
19
Don't bash the Shadchonim
As a bochur who got married later in life I can tell you that the job of a shadchan is extremely hard. The bochur (or the girl) doesn't know what they want and the shadchan doesn't know what to do with them.

But more importantly, since when did it become the shadchan's job to call you back? Did you give them a deposit? Do you give them a thank-you or a tip for every shidduch that they invest in that does NOT work out?

They are not slaves.

And I have yet to meet a shadchan who does it for the money.
(6/21/2010 3:00:07 AM)
20
To #8
You are so right! It feels as if I wrote that... who are you? Eli?

I'm with you 100%, let shadchanim get together and form groups, meet singles with 3/4 shadchanim in one shot... sounds like a great idea.

But of course, this will take serious time dedication and coordination.

And... who cares, right?
(6/21/2010 3:07:57 AM)
21
Agree
I have long thought that there should be an official paid shadchan for each community - if not more than 1 [or 2]. It is impossible to get aznywhere with the people currently available espcially for those who live outside NY. The current system is a joke amoungst the girls and boys still waiting and waiting.
(6/21/2010 3:09:48 AM)
22
Mechutonim using their Children to Blackmail one another
Shadconim should also make sure that the Mechutonim should keep their Children (Choson & Kallo) out of the Wedding Expences, where to make the Wedding Etc. the list is long but I am sure that Riva has experienced this as well
(6/21/2010 3:27:18 AM)
23
No 9
What on earth does that have to do with this article...
(6/21/2010 3:39:23 AM)
24
Commen Sense
I agree with many of your points of how a shiduch system should work but wait.....

When you look for a school, do you ask someone to decide for you which school to go to???

When you look for a job do you have someone decide for you which jobs to apply for???

No, you are responsible for your own future and destiny. So why is it that in this most important and definitive moment of your life are you completely relient on the skills, capabilities and resorcefulness of a complete stranger???

THIS MUST CHANGE! We need to stop this nonsense and allow our young adults to make their own life decisions and future. Its our job only to facilitate it.
(6/21/2010 3:59:51 AM)
25
wow
this article is a really great one.
(6/21/2010 4:04:29 AM)
26
What about 'Second time Round'?
There are many divorcees looking to remarry with very few options. Shadchanim don't seem to take us seriously and if they do have any suggestions they are usually so ridiculous and far fetched that its often, not worth the bother.

In addition I have many single friends who are in their late 20's and early 30's who seem to be going through a rough time too.

If anyone has any concrete suggestions please email me at: greenie2010@gmail.com
(6/21/2010 4:10:13 AM)
27
Yente=shadchan??
we need a proper business in place with fees and they will hire profesional councelors to match personalities and caractor ect..unfortunatly these days the buigger yente you are, the buigger "shadchan" you are. and we are doing it to our selfs.
(6/21/2010 4:11:37 AM)
28
Spot On!
this is one article that is long overdue.The problem needs to be dealt with now.I dont know this woman personally but she has the right attitude towards how to make a successful shidduch.May hashem bless her and her family and of course all those seeking their zivug.
(6/21/2010 4:21:23 AM)
29
awsome
To number 9, just wanna say thanks for sharing with everyone how wonderful your daughter is,
(6/21/2010 4:28:26 AM)
30
to 11
As a talented and bright person.
I agree, how long are we supposed to put lives on hold for parents to search through approx 1500-3000 boy or girls (yes i did some basic number crunching inlc israel, europe and some few newer numbers - but anyone who has made better estimation let me know) with shadchanim whom you u paid to put you on a list them give u a couple of 'resumes' every couple of month. Yes riva - a better system is in order.
(6/21/2010 4:29:13 AM)
31
Rivkah
An excellent analysis of the situation.

Yesterday, I was speaking to a lady who was trying to help me find a Shidduch and at the end of the conversation she asked me for my telephone number. I was in shock. This was the first time someone playing the role as 'shadchan' was asking to be able to call me back, rather than me having to chase him/her.
And yet- this is normal behavior.

We don't even need to create organizations to address this ‘crisis’. This situation could be helped very simply. Just as we don't turn away someone who asks for Tzedaka, the same Halacha can apply here. Any person involved in arranging a Shidduch (whether it be a family member, friend, acquaintance or 'shadchan') should make it their personal responsibility to follow this through.

The halacha continues- the 'poor’ person should be treated in a dignified way. Having to 'beg' for help to find one’s partner in life is by no means a pleasant experience. Confident individuals (both male and female) all of a sudden become vulnerable. They become dependent on others’ assistance. They have to chase and beg. For me this is most frustrating.

I also understand that ultimately Hashem is in charge and I am confident that at the right time I will meet the right person.

Nonetheless, you have raised an excellent point that hits the core of the Shidduch issue.

Anyone involved in arranging a Shidduch (and this could include me too) should make it their personal responsibility to follow through with their work in a timely and respectful manner. Not because it is their job and not because they are getting paid for their work, but because they are simply fulfilling the Mitzvah of Veahavta Leraiacha Kamocha.
(6/21/2010 4:39:59 AM)
32
agree!
there is a lack of good shadchonim, even as a young chassidish girl i thought to myself if i wait for shadchonim to think of boys for me I'll kill a lot of time, i thought to myself if only i could somehow meet a good boy...even chassidish people are sick of shadchonim, we are forcing lubavitchers to meet on their own like in the modern orthodox world! I know of people getting older, shadchonim are being useless, let them meet and just get married already, no choice
(6/21/2010 6:50:08 AM)
33
to number 9
good luck but you're comment is insensitive
(6/21/2010 7:01:28 AM)
34
Shiduchim Now
Perhaps another article is needed addressing the high demands of boys and girls. Instead of going out with a human being, they expect an angle. Too much phone calling and research is done and not enough Shidusch dating...
(6/21/2010 7:06:53 AM)
35
Shadchanim,
Please read this article and learn from it!. Call Back!! you dont begin to understand how demeaning it is not to be called back.
Its basic mentchlichkeit.

And, dear shadchan, if I paid you money and for all these years you couldnt come up with a single shidduch for me - you should return the money!!
(6/21/2010 7:08:55 AM)
36
Simpler Solution
Why don't you just make it mandatory that every time a shadchan sets your child up on a date, you send them 18.00. Trust me this will take care of the shadchanim side of the shidduch crisis....... now there's the singles themselves to deal with....
(6/21/2010 7:23:50 AM)
37
both sides
There are one or two Shadchonim who take no money yet show endless patience and concern with the constant phonecalls. Rochel Bryski always make a parent feel valued.
The flip side are other shadchonim who take money for an interview held in an indescreet manner, with the shadchan's family in the apartment and aware of the meeting. How humiliating for the young girl/boy involved! We also as non shadchonim as the Rebbe's kehillah all over the world, need to care about other people's children and keep our eyes open for shidduchim for them as well as for our own.
(6/21/2010 8:15:24 AM)
38
single older girl!
I love the idea!! Now what are you doing to make it happen?? You need to be the future you want to happen!
(6/21/2010 8:41:41 AM)
39
To #7
Why don't you just ask the Shadchan if you can publicize his name?
(6/21/2010 8:43:24 AM)
40
Paying shadchanim and does it pay?
That has been done with few results. There is a problem with attitude and responsibility. If a Shadchan is working for you, each time that he/she starts the relationship there should be a clear understanding about how he/she intends to work. Perhaps it is only their intended mission to be middleman if you suggest a name to them.
The problem is that it has come down to just that. The parents have become the Shadchanim doing all the work because there is no one to work with.
Your suggestion for starting a vaad is interesting but may not get a response from the "shadchanim" in Lubavitch.

Bottom line, each shadchan should state clearly how they intend to work so that up front no one has to guess at the relationship of unfulfilled expectations.

Thank you for a beautifully written and thought out essay on this timely topic.
(6/21/2010 8:51:00 AM)
41
THE CONCEPT "shadchan"=utopia
DOES NOT EXIST PEOPLE HELPING THE SAME WAY WE HELP ANYBODY ELSE IS A NEED TO BE PAINED WHEN YOUR FRIENDS GIRL IS NOT MARRIED THE SAME WAY AS YOU PAINED FOR YOUR OWN=THIS IS CALLED IF I REMEMBER WELL AHAVT ISRAEL
(6/21/2010 8:54:00 AM)
42
THANK YOU
Riva is a good friend of mine and I can tell you 'zi meint mit an emes'. She is an excellent example of true Ahas Yisroel and we all have alot to learn from her. I really hope that there is no critisizm on this article because knowing Riva this is only written to help us all.
To #10 - obviously there is more to say about this subject, but let us be openminded to fixing the ENTIRE process, one problem at a time.
To #9 - all our children can afford to be picky. They all possess unique qualities that Hashem blessed them with. I hope your daughter gets engaged soon.... to the right person...... otherwise you will be in for a big reality check.
Thank you again Riva for begining to address the most important dilemma facing all of Klal Yisroel today.

(6/21/2010 8:57:54 AM)
43
OUTOFTOWNER
WELL SAID! AMAZING! ILL SUPPORT IT! THANK YOU FOR SAYING IT SO CLEARLY!!
(6/21/2010 9:04:46 AM)
44
friends need to help
seeing it fron another perpespective the daughter of a shadchan, I see how much calls, abuse and unappreciative comments are thrown to a shadchan when she is simply "trying to help". she doesn't owe anyone anything other than she was born with heart of gold to help. parents, if you call the shadchan often and you see she is trying hard for your child (even though hasn't had success yet, send her a gift, a check of appreciation wouldn't hurt either, don't forget this is all on her own time, free of charge. We pay hundreds for a small dr. visit, why don't we look at our shadchan and say how can I ensure she is 1. treated with respect 2. and shown appreciation not just by thanks but by some financial commensation.
I am sure it would give her a boost to continue to think and work for your child and as human nature has it "if not more after that!"
just my thought in trying to see it in another light.
(6/21/2010 9:10:44 AM)
45
rivkie
I am in the middle of finding shidduchim for my children and the experience with shadchanim has been more than disappointing. I realize it is all min haShomayim but at the same time when we make a keli and contact a shadchan, why is it we end up feeling the shadchan just does not really care? we are not a priority. No real effort is made to look for a shidduch necessarily. If something comes along, fine and well. And if not, we the parents are left hanging....
So it is not only the kids dropping out of the shidduch scene. I think many parents are fed up and want other alternatives.
I had a similar idea once: to form shidduch committees in every city. Let there be a committee with parents and shadchanim and they should be in touch with committees in other cities to organize shidduchim. I think if there are enough people on the committee, there will not be a situation where people are ignored or feel nobody cares. This must be taken care of seriously because the shidduch crisis is getting harder...and the main point is so many young people are suffering and there is no reason. So many people are getting older but never find a way to meet prospective shidduchim....the main tachlis in life is to establish a frum home and build a family bezrat Hashem. But for that we need to make some effort, some keli. If shadchanim do not respond or take it seriously enough, what other keli are we to make? I agree shadchanim are busy and we really cannot blame them fully. But then we have to come up with other alternatives so the crisis is resolved. Doing nothing will not bring positive results. I believe more tehillim groups for shidduchim would also help...
(6/21/2010 9:27:04 AM)
46
sara ester
I think shadchanim should definitely not charge before making a successful shidduch....and i like the idea of a committee for shidduchim. but that should also be without money. volunteers. I believe plenty of parents would take up the task. They can take turns. Something should be ogranized. Many families cannot afford the weddings never mind the shidduch fees....it is not a fair system.
(6/21/2010 9:29:38 AM)
47
"Shadchan" Speaking
Everybody knows the problem and everybody knows the solution.
But do they really?
How is a shadchan supposed to know well a bochur from LA and a girl from Miami? Yes our community is all over the place, ka"h.
Who is paying the shadchan for all time put into shidduchim (and it si a lot of time) and they get nothing for their time, often not even a Thank You?
Should the shadchan leave their day job?
Should the shadchan ignore their own children, like serving them dinner, helping with the homework, tucking them in?
And then the shadchan is supposed to match not only the boy and girl but also provide the type of family this and this one is looking to upgrd3e their family status. After all, there are more children to marry off and this will certainly impact those shidduchim.

How about some help from the parents of boy/girl? Some honest information, some flexibility, some continued communication.
Anyway, I the shadchan, am very frustrated too.
(6/21/2010 9:32:37 AM)
48
to # 9
nowadays it means nothing for a girl to go out 5,6,even 7 times
especially sinc u say she can afford to be pickyu're putting her on a pedestal , she'll always think there is something better out there be careful she may have tons of offers but u're attitude is too high and mighty beware!
(6/21/2010 9:35:06 AM)
49
Parents its up to u
be mentchlich and call the shadchan back when u're not interested as quickly as u call him/her back when u are interested don't leave them hanging.
(6/21/2010 9:42:32 AM)
50
photos
to no.9 - we're proud of you!!!
Someone has got to put an end to the picture business.
Mothers- since when do you decide what your sons will be attracted to ? It is also an indicator of what kind of meddling mother in law you will be.
Boys - If your decision is based on a picture, then good luck to your future wife with you being so vain and shallow.
It's one thing to find a picture of the girl beforehand, where's your shame in asking for it?
(6/21/2010 9:57:07 AM)
51
A Friend of the family
I will tell you from experience that the Shachonim are up all hours of the night working very hard to make things happen. Keep in mind they also have a job during the day.
I blame the Parents who are digging and digging and make it more difficult for a Shidduch to happen. I agree that a system needs to be put in place for those in need, Pay fee to a Bochur or Girl that suggest a Shidduch to a Shadchin that works. The funds for this are quite important and are available.
(6/21/2010 9:59:11 AM)
52
Impressive
I'm impressed.
These thoughts cross many mothers minds on a constant daily basis, but, often, we do not see a mother that will come forward and speak out.

The shadchanim try their best, we know, but, in today's day and age, the care, the thoughtfulness, has been almost all but lost.

He's a boy, she's a girl - OKAY! LET'S MAKE IT WORK!

Unfortunately, matching two people, to people who are going to become one whole person takes more effort and far more time put in.

Chas V'shalom do I mean to put down a shadchan, I am merely saying, that the shadchanim would like to make more shidduchim, they would like to be responsible for helping a girl find her mate - and there is absolutely nothing wrong with producing a "solution", to our seemingly never-ending problem, our heartache, our waiting time, and all the frustration that occurs behind closed doors.

So, Riva, I agree with you in this. We do need help.

Don't we want more simchas? More weddings? Less single girls? Is there any answer but a hearty "YES!!" ?

We must gather together, we must remind ourselves that without our zivugim we are lost, and we cannot continue a generation.
(6/21/2010 9:59:33 AM)
53
A Friend
Riva, I liked your article. Yes, there is a crisis. No, I have to clue how to make it work, but I too have many thoughts on the subject.
Let me say, that I have not finished marrying off my children, so therefore, though I would like to cannot sign my name.
I too have made more than10 shidduchim (can't remember, and my point is not to try to count). Yes, I am thrilled to see them wakling around the stree, and yes, it's a wonderful feeling to see them, happy and with family.
No, I never did it for the money! For one shidduch I got a small gift that I for sure didn't need, for another from a smiple group I got $50 (from the two sides together!)
But I am sure that I can write a book what I have gone through with 'Shaddchanim" in trying to marry off my children. I have many children that need to get miarried right now.
Funny thing is, in all my years around I have never - ever - heard a Shaddchan say, 'Wow, that was an easy shidduch. One of two calls and bingo! And can you believe that I got paid $1,000, $2,000 or even more from that!' Did you ever hear anyone say that.
But I have heard them say, "Wow, people in Crown Heights don't want to pay!"
Firstly, let me say, that I have sent my children to be interviewed by many. I have paid many for the privilege of sending my children to them - yes - never to hear from them again. Yes, there are many that use emails. Though I think they are far from personal - yes, they are better than nothing. So can you imagine not even getting an email in return!
Making a shidduch is not about money. We are not living in Fiddler on the Roof. It is a pleasure and a privilege to be involved in a shidduch. Every single Shadchan that I know has another job. Or a husband that has another job. None of them are going hungry. But they are ALL in it for the money! But let's figure it out. If you do make a shidduch, and it was easy, so you put 2 hours total into telephone calls. Four hours. Ten hours. What are they, surgeons? Let's say they carry that credit forward and do a shidduch that they would not have gotten involved with - one that might not pay at all? How about that?
Hey, your vaad idea is interesting. But you for sure don't live in Crown Heights! One Vaad - six hunred opinions, and thousands of people on the 'other' side! Can you picture all these money hungry 'shaddchanim' sitting together, sharing ideas - and hey, that's all my money going to the other people!
Much more importantly - I think - you have a good idea. You think that he would be perfect with she. Don't let it die. Call up, suggest it, have your good friend make the call if you are shy. You know the boy, you know the girl, you are for sure much more knowledgeable that the 'shadchan' and your opinion carries weight. So many good shidduchim come about in just that manner. My best experiences are in dealing with friends.
And while I am into friends - what happened to all the boy's/girl's friends? After your child has had all those friends from a young age - and then they are lucky and get married, your child stands by them, helps them, drives them, - wait - until the wedding. What happens after that? For sure, it's Shono Rishoino. So you have no time for your old friends. But after that year, and after the next year, your husband / wife has many friends that might just be good for your friend whom you left on the wayside! There is not an age requirement, any more than any 'professional' requirement to make a shidduch. Go for it! Who more should you want to help out that your old friend.
This is a painful situation for all. It's nice to go through life and just be able to take care of everything by yourself. But here I have hit a brick wall. It's almose impossible to make a shidduch for your own by yourself.
We MUST help each other!
(6/21/2010 10:08:44 AM)
54
Zaki
Just pass this along to Zaki. He will make it happen for us!!!
(6/21/2010 10:08:46 AM)
55
Already frustrated
I'm a born and raised Floridian, 20 year old girl and I'm already fed up with the system. I've gone out with guys who were on medication, who were lazy, sloppy, and didn't know what they wanted to do in life. I'v gotten interviews with shadchanim that seemed to have "lost" my number and put my email in their spam file. I've been let down too many times.
So now that you were this beautiful article, now what?
(6/21/2010 10:08:57 AM)
56
To Riva and # to 1
You are very right, if parents would not look so much in to the family ; is this a Geza family (like Riva says Klimovitch Tashkent or Nevel ) a Choshuveh Family, a Shluchim family, a rich family…..there would have been much more shiduchim….unfortunately, instead of making researched and concentrating about the Boy and girl whether they are Mentchen , especially whether they are a good match etc..etc…the parents are first and foremost looking in the family …A Friend of mine told me on at least 7 proposals “these families are not what we are looking for ”……. In that case you are creating YOUR OWN problems-- “BEYODAYIM you are pushing away your Basherter Zivug….if this “Choosing family” would be off, then Shiduchim will triple or quadruple…God luck Mutch hatzlocho..
(6/21/2010 10:15:58 AM)
57
to # 50
what does pictures have to do with #9? I do agree with some mothers being the problem . granted u must research and look into things very carefully, but some mothers think they have to interview the girl, meet her ,... let u're son have an opinion he may surprise u.
(6/21/2010 10:17:38 AM)
58
SHidduch organization
I totally agree with having an organization to speeden up the Shidduch process! There is no system whatsoever...And people pretty much have to make shidduchim for their family and friends which isnt always easy! Whoever can set up an Organizaton that works..G-d Bless you!
(6/21/2010 10:19:59 AM)
59
The problem is NOT shadchanim
The problem is that we are raising girls that do not want the kind of boys that we are raising!!!!!!
The problem is that dates are happening!!!! Shadchanim are making dates!!!! They are just not making SHiDDUCHIM!!!!
The problem is that girls and boys are dating 10-20-30 differents guys/girls. they are getting dates! They are just not getting married!
The problem is that everyone is busy looking for what they WANT not for the kind of person that would be good for them.
Good Luck Riva, I commend you for caring but it's the singles themselves that will have to solve this problem.
(6/21/2010 10:24:47 AM)
60
to #19
"I have yet to meet a shadchan who does it for the money"

Are you kidding me???

Let's start with shadchan #1 her rules for the meeting were 'bring x amt of money in cash'. we had our meeting and she set me up with a guy soon after (the whole process on that was rude, but i wont get into that now) and any time since then my mother has called for suggestions, she's told her "there are other shadchanim besides me that you can call" is that really her place to say?? we gave her money to help. that was 6 years ago
after paying that shadchan and having such a bad experience, we decided its not worth dealing wiht shadchanim who ask for money. comes 25 and im still not married, we're gettng a little desperate and decide to give it (it being deal with a shadchan who asks for money just for the interview) another try.
shadchan #2 my mother had been in contact with her and she gave some suggestions and seemed really nice. Around sukkos time, my mom gets an email from this shadchan saying that "im taking on 32 singles this year and with certin conditions. these singles will be my priority this year to get them married" my mother called right away, she told my mom the conditions were to pay x amt of money. we paypaled it over to her before the phone call even ended. guess what??? were almost at sukkos again and we havnt heard a peep from her. this is not to say my mother didnt try, she called and was told to always call back. she emailed and either didnt get a response, or got an automated email saying she was busy or with an excuse as to why she couldnt help. You couldnt come thru on ur promise, time to give back the money!
come shadchan #3 she seemed very nice on the phone and i was told to bring x amt to the interview. she spent 2 hours with me and the next week suggested a guy who was everything I told her I dont want! I did tell her what i wanted and didnt want and the things i didnt want, i told her were not deal breakers if everything else was ok and he had ONE of the things i didnt want, i was fine with that. she told me to send her "reminders" every once in a while which we do and get no response.

so #19 can you tell me now that you dont know shadchanim who do it for money??

On the flip side I have tried to set up many friends and have seen what it takes to put a shidduch together and sometimes its really difficult to deal with singles especially your friends. I managed to make one shidduch and that is a story on its own.

There are some shadchanim who care. they will return your phone calls and emails and try to suggest matches that actually suit you. I dont have to give them a shout out to thank them, a personal email goes alot further. Iyh when I get engaged I will obviously give thanks and (the proper thanks) to "my shadchan" but I would like to think that I will not forget the shadchanim who like i said returned phone calls and emails and gave suitable suggestions.

I could write a book on this topic but I will get off my soapbox. and allow you all to read and comment :)
(6/21/2010 10:36:36 AM)
61
I have an idea
I am 74 years old and when I was a girl (and I was a Beis Yaakov girl) we had appropriate MIXING of young men and women. We had Young Israel and other venues to get to know bochurim, work on community projects together, TALK. We did not rely on shadchanim who knew NOTHING about us. We relied on friends, neighbors, family and our own (get ready!...) FRIENDSHIPS with bochurim from Young Israel and simchas which were NOT separated. It is outrageous to have gender-separated weddings, for example. Good grief, this is a fine article but a little common sense, people!!
(6/21/2010 10:38:36 AM)
62
Bubbies and Families
I can remember when several people suggested a certain girl for my son. So my ayshes chayil approached a noted shadchan lady and asked her to set it up. So do you know what this shadchanteh answered? She said this shidduch would never do, because the families are so different. Suppose, she said, the two families now have to sit together at a simcha, and one bubby is sitting next to the other bubby. They would have nothing to talk about. So that is why she couldn't set up this match. It is this sort of attitude that is causing all the difficulties.

PS: My wife eventually took it into her own hands, and she herself approached that same young lady's mother. The short story is that it was very successful, and they were engaged three weeks later. And you know what? Whenever the two bubby's meet, they find they have much in common, and are able to talk to each other just fine.
(6/21/2010 10:39:06 AM)
63
# 51
u have a good idea, to have the boys and girls involved with the shadchan and if they suggest someone that they think is shayach the shadchan should pay them something. THE FRIENDS ARE THE BEST! They actually know the boy /girl well and this system should be implemented.
(6/21/2010 10:54:01 AM)
64
thats a great idea NUmber 51
parents should meet about this. The girls and boys are the best shadchanim they know their friends better than anyone else. Lets start a friends based system where if someone went out and it did'n't work for them but they think it would be good for someone else and they suggest it......... this can work # 51 count me in!
(6/21/2010 11:00:34 AM)
65
Riva Denburg
I am very pleased to see the comments I have read so far. I did not "BRAVELY" put my name on this article just as a forum for conversation. I sincerely hope we can find solutions. WE HAVE TOO. Considering the amount of young people not married, the amount of sadness, disillusionment, the sometimes not positive changes that "waiting" brings to frum girls and boys, we are in a crisis zone that is really not recognized by many parents and community members.
By the way,
I admire the smug self assurance of #9. If it really is so easy for you, keep it to yourself! Don't throw your mazel around to make your neighbor's pain worse. Better yet, call friends with the "names" you have so you can HELP others too.
ALL of us have had it easy, all of us have had it hard. But some of us learn that even when it's easy for us, when our families and friends are struggling with this, we cannot forget that OUR SIMCHA IS CONNECTED WITH THEIR SIMCHA TOO.
Thanks
(6/21/2010 11:00:41 AM)
66
some are good and some are not
As with every profession, there are some shadchanim that are good and there are some that are not.
Some are official, but still have the sensitivity and devotion towards their "job" ( as no. 7 pointed out), and then there are some that will only meet the girl/boy with the required prepayment, and they must have a resume and picture of them stored in their database, and they want some sort of payment eventhough they did not put together the eventual shidduch, and to them being a shadchan is a business to make the buck and nothing more.
(6/21/2010 11:00:53 AM)
67
Overworked Shaddchan
To # 19 . 44 and 47 you are right on target !!!
Unless you are a Shaddchan , you will never know the hearhache that comes with the job !
The dirty laundry that we have to deal with . The endless calls we have to make. The endless hours on the phone late at night . And the most difficult of all : when both parties agree to go out and then one of them decides to back out - what do you tell the other party and still have them look like a wonderful potential ???!!!
Yes , the only thing that keeps me going is the satisfaction I get when a Shidduch does go through !
L
(6/21/2010 11:04:28 AM)
68
Thank you Riva
for being open and adding to the discussion. Firstly, the previous Vaad in CH DID hire someone. When I emailed her, I never heard from her,ever. Rabbi Groner said that the REBBE said you should first pay your shadchan, while you are looking, a deposit! I did it. My shadchan worked so hard for my daughter. He constantly thought "out of the box".
(6/21/2010 11:04:47 AM)
69
Here is an idea
Why doesn't every "Non-Shadchan" couple make it their business to try and find a shidduch for at least one of their single friends.

And no I am not niave, I know people do try, but if everyone really made a hachlota to go out that extra mile, and really pulled all their resources together, perhaps 1 out of 10 will be successful, and then dozens of people will meet their barshert.

I honestly believe that this is the best way for a shidduch to come about (that is how I got married). That a friend was the shadchan, who knew both parties, and really felt that we were right for each other, she was right!
(6/21/2010 11:24:32 AM)
70
From the daughter of a shadchan
My mother does not consider herself a shadchan. She considers herself a shliach - a shliach of Hashem - and she is the first one to admit that her "ideas" are min hashamayim. Most of the shidduchim she made just came to her, seemingly out of nowhere. She is hashem's shliach and sometimes, ideas don't come. What are you going to do? Blame the shadchan?

She works selflessly and tirelessly on shidduchim every single day. When she is not on the phone, she is constantly brainstorming of ideas. Why doesn't she call you back, you ask? By the time she even thinks about calling you back, 10 more people are calling. She is always saying how much she needs a secretary to keep track of just the phone calls! She often gets calls 5 minutes before shabbos, and sometimes, even at 2:00 in the morning. If you are frustrated that the shadchan is not calling you back, call her! Remind her about your child. After all, it is YOUR child.

My mother does not charge for the shidduchim she makes. She always tells people to ask around what the going rate is. And you know what, sometimes, she makes nothing and she never complains. It has happened a few times that someone she made a shidduch couldn't afford to pay her and did so anyways. What did my mother do? She gave the money back as a gift to the couple.

Being a shadchan is not a job. No, it's a lifestyle. Most jobs are 9 to 5. When you come home, you leave your job in the workplace. Can my mother just "leave" her workplace. No. When she walks down the street or goes to a wedding she is constantly being approached by people who need her help. And she loves helping people. She is the most giving person I know. She doesn't take care of herself because she is always taking care of everyone else. So instead of complaining, maybe say "thank you." Thank your shadchan for devoting his or her life to trying to help people.

Being a shadchan is not a job. Being a shadchan is a 24-7 commitment. One, I know my mother takes very seriously.
(6/21/2010 11:28:50 AM)
71
To #19
Thank you.
(6/21/2010 11:41:03 AM)
72
BS"D
hey
i dont like these comments they are to long to read lol
(6/21/2010 11:41:04 AM)
73
Dr. Elka Pinson, Psychologist
The situation is complex and we are all challenged by it.
There is a solution!We are helping one another by participating in the Chabad Shidduch Group. Women meet together, and men are interviewed. We share the profiles that have been presented. We network and WE are ALL Shadchanim. Join us. Let's help each other!
Contact us: [ChabadShidduch@aol.com]
(6/21/2010 11:42:00 AM)
74
To # 51
At the end of the day its easy to complain but if the Rebbe taught us anything its to take action and do something about it.
your the IDEA presented in # 51 is a great and should be implemented
(6/21/2010 11:43:29 AM)
75
Los Angeles group of women
to #45

Your idea to start a shidduch committe in each city is an idea that we are forming now in California. A group of women are calling the parents of all single boys/girls on the west coast and asking them basic info.about them. They are putting together a list of all these available singles.
If other major states such as Florida, New York , Chicago Montreal.........will have a shidduch committee with their list of girls/boys we will be able to help match them.! let's give this a try.
(6/21/2010 11:46:37 AM)
76
to # 34
I think you should learn how to spell ANGEL before finding one!
(6/21/2010 12:34:09 PM)
77
So called list
These so called lists do squat! bochurim lists and the girls list are outdated by 5 years at least. ChabadMatch.com is also as I have been on there for a year now and have gotten nothing at all. So l don;t think a list will do.
(6/21/2010 12:52:21 PM)
78
A suggestion for all of us.
Out there, there is an 8 minute shidduch process. It works like this. you bring 8 bochurim and 8 girls together in a room. you give each bochur 8 minutes maximum with each girl. each bochur and each girl have 8 cards. one for each bochur/girl that they meet. right after the 8 minute meeting they jot down initial feeling. like would I want to meet him/her again or not. hand the cards in to the facilitator and he can work it out. who will meet who again.

AND NOW FOR ALL OF US.

Lets not be too righteous for our own good. In the shtetl every boy knew every girl and when a shidduch was suggested they more or less knew who he/she was just from living in the same shtetl. nothing not tzniusdik about this.

WHAT WE CAN DO is start inviting boys and girls of shidduch age to our shabbos table (or even to a weekday table). start small 2 boys and 2 girls. (one boy and one girl is a liittle too obvious). Nothing for anyone to be personally embarrassed . If something comes of it, wonderful. If not the boy/girl may suggest them for friends of theirs. All this can be done in a discreet manner within the confines of halacha and tznius.
(6/21/2010 1:04:02 PM)
79
esther in LA
dear riva,i'm sorry you and so many others have had such a difficult time with shadchanim however i don't think it's fair to to say "the shadchanim" are.....they are each indivisuals.my dear friend gives her heart and soul to the shidduchim she's involved with ,to the detriment of her home business and she doesn't ask for a fee.everyone who needs shidduch should find their bashert very, verysoon!
(6/21/2010 1:32:03 PM)
80
to # 19 and #14
Valid point, its a huge problem when the boy or girl don't know what they are looking for. I read a wonderful book called "Dating Secrets" where this women undertook upon herself not to find shidduchim, but rather to help people figure out what they are looking for, and why they are finding it hard to find their bashert. Obviously, we don't know why the right one doesn't come till it comes, but this makes a keli to help find the right one quicker.
(6/21/2010 1:55:59 PM)
81
to #78
Instead of having 2 boys and 2 girls over at our meals, maybe we should have over a few boys, then at a different meal a few girls, and the family can then work on creating Shidduchim. I lived as a single girl in CH for a few years, and believe me the problem was not that the boys and the girls did not know about each other, the problem was that they knew tooo much about each other.
(6/21/2010 1:58:33 PM)
82
Shadchanim don't have a monopoly
I honestly don't get the point of this whole shadchanim bashing. You don't like them? Don't use them. Maybe we should open a lawyer bashing site and doctor bashing site and a store owner bashing site?
Shadchanim don't have a monopoly. Take your life in your own hands and leave the shadchanim alone. And by the way... bashing them all day is a great way to get more people to enter this business.... what a great solution to the shiduch crisis. Chaim Levi
(6/21/2010 2:12:00 PM)
83
bochur
The problem is that shadchanim don't know the guy or girl personally, so they can't really get a feel for the person. hence the matches that the y do set-up don't work often. One other issue is, guys and girls setting an image in their mind before they even would go out, based on a picture and rumors. Just meet the person!
(6/21/2010 2:16:18 PM)
84
To 20
haha,

I think you're talking about me...not I didn't write that..I like the idea of that group but I can't say I know it in a way that I would recommend it.

~ Eli
(6/21/2010 2:18:14 PM)
85
FRANCE
Dont complain, because the system in france is worse!!!
Theres no Shadchanim there.....
(6/21/2010 2:19:14 PM)
86
Earlier the better
Parents should arrange their children's marriage while they are still in elementary school. It would make the process so much easier.
(6/21/2010 3:22:35 PM)
87
Oh my!
This article is generating quite the buzz!

Kudos Riva for speaking out!

As a close friend, I can honestly say- with full sincerity, that Riva only wants to aide the shidduch process, to ease a mother's heartache, to offer a dependable solution, and to iy"H allow our community the opportunity to celebrate in many more simchas.

Noone is here to "bash" the shadchanim, we inherently trust their instincts, we know they mean well. We appreciate their hand. However, we need to become extreme in our thinking, we need to dig deeper, and we need not waste another moment!

Riva, thank you for taking time our of your busy day ( I know that you always are) and for addressing this crisis upfront in a tell-all way.

Iy"H, we should all be zoche to marry off all of our children, all of our sisters' children, and all of our frends' children, in the right time, in the right place, with clarity, with full hearts, and SOON!

(6/21/2010 5:06:19 PM)
88
not my experience
I have boruch hashem married off 6 children ka'h and each with different shadchonim and I have only good things to say about each one in their professionalism and in the way they dealt with the shiddach. There ARE wonderful people out there doing wonderful things
(6/21/2010 6:00:38 PM)
89
SOME RESPONSES FOR SOME COMMENTS BY RIVA DENBU
First of all, the bubby who wrote about young Israel style practices has a point but not neccessarily for our " CHASSIDIC" community. Perhaps a variation of that? The 8 minute J date thing is also a point but people will only judge by looks and not by content. Alot of first time daters will be tongue tied and not have the confidence to create a good impression. I mentioned that I had alot of ideas for that aspect of the shidduch process too. I did not know if I should outline them till I read these comments, but now I think I will write another article about the dating process itself.

WE HAVE NOT HAD A HARD TIME WITH SHADCHANIM. I aways accepted that the shadchanim were limited in their scope, and their time. BUT I also knew that I had to make it happen. I did not let myself have "off" days when I couldn't take another phone call, or was too weary to find out info. Call your friends, BOTHER people, TRY. DO NOT blame the shadchanim! The tears a mother sheds for her daughter or son's pain does reach shamayim, but YOU must work at it. You must not give up. ALL these new groups for shidduchim are amazing and the most important aspect of them is the "openess" of it.
BY THE WAY, TO THE COMMENT OF ME NOT LIVING IN CROWN HEIGHTS, I GREW UP IN CROWN HTS AND AND YES, SO WHAT? I wrote about an independent board VOTED by Lubavitchers. Supported by Lubavitch, for Lubavitchers. I think it can work.
(6/21/2010 6:17:40 PM)
90
Funding
I would gladly put funds towards this new and crucial organization if it was launched. There are too many disillusioned older singles who are slowing dropping out the system....myself being one of them.
(6/21/2010 6:52:35 PM)
91
no.7 again
to no. 18, my email address is smilertk@gmail.com Will be happy to help...
(6/21/2010 6:53:48 PM)
92
To 70
You are soooo right. That is also there is burn out by shadchanim. It is a shlihus as well ad a real zechus to make a shiduch. Only of people would understand it
(6/21/2010 7:21:34 PM)
93
FRIENDS, NEIGHBORS, RELATIVES
this has been said before but we have to say it again. anyone can be a matchmaker! newlyweds with still single friends....neighbors.....relatives.....please give it a try and call!!!!!!
(6/21/2010 7:33:42 PM)
94
PLEASE LIST NAMES
of the un-official shadchonim.
Please take a minute to list some names on this forum of other shadchanim to call.
Who knows? You'r'e suggestion of who to call might actually be the first step into making a shidduch - a zchus that Hashem will remember!!
Thank you!
(6/21/2010 8:21:19 PM)
95
A Frustrated Parent
If every single in Lubavitch would be REQUIRED to register on ChabadMatch and every Shadchan in Lubavitch would be REQUIRED to be part of ChabadMatch, we at least wouldn't have the problem of not knowing who out there could be shaiech for our child. If we had this simple way of narrowing down who matches, and that that there's no theoretical "someone else", singles would be much less ambivalent about making a decision to marry and the whole process would be so much less painful and quicker.
(6/21/2010 8:32:09 PM)
96
ur right
im not complaining but she has a point the shidduchim are lazy i had a shidduch and the shadchannet was probably too lazy to look through alot of her back ground and i found out when i went on a few dates and went across the world to date her that her secrets i didnt know till after those few dates were terrible.....she had many skeletons in her closet and very bad ones and it hurt to find out at that time cause i liked her but she wasnt for me if she still did these things...
(6/21/2010 9:25:16 PM)
97
beautiful
THE BOYS WANT ONE THING: ACTUALLY 2 THINGS: A BEAUTIFUL GIRL, AND A THIN GIRL. All the rest is bla bla bla, family, yichus, money, brains, talent, nothing worth. Those are the excuses they give, but if a beautiful girl comes up all these excuses fall away.
(6/21/2010 9:34:14 PM)
98
too number six
where you from do u also have this problem with shidduchim it wasnt only me it was many others i know unfortunatley found out when they were married and engaged
(6/21/2010 9:36:10 PM)
99
to no 53
i m sorry to tell u but with all expenses that there are to a dates lechaim and wedding not everyone can afford to pay 1000$ plus most of you are probably want a chasideshe bohrim i would like to tell u most of chasideshe bohrim have little money so make of your mind u want frum bohrim with no cash or no berad with $, shadhan is A MITZVA its either you do it or not if u can not that just dont
(6/21/2010 9:56:13 PM)
100
to shadchan of #47
i thought that is why there are interviews!
when i started with the whole shidduch process i was told to go for an interview - i went ready to really describe myself and what i was looking for...
but the shadchan didn't even give me a chance to really describe myself - i felt like i was just being added to a list with phone numbers
(6/21/2010 10:29:18 PM)
101
Encouraging Shadchanim
A good idea to encourage Shadchanim to do their job right would be to require all engagements posted on ColLive to list who made the Shidduch in addition to the names and places of residence of the Chosson and Kallah. This would truly reveal to everyone who are the most active and successful Shadchanim and give them an incentive to do their job right.
(6/21/2010 10:58:17 PM)
102
I'll add my share
Same story with shadchan taking a fee! and did u hear? it actually went up to 250 i heard.. but i got it at the diccount of 180.. i never got any offer from this particular shadchan. What did I pay for? For him to spend hours researching a list and emailing??? How will that help me if i get no calls?
(6/21/2010 11:34:20 PM)
103
personal opinion
i actually think that shiduchim cannot be run as a business. the shadchanim who email instead of speaking to a live person... feels like a waste of time! even worse- instead of the shadchan calling back to give the respnse of the other side.. we get an email with their response to the shadchan!! heloooo why do i have to see what they said about my daughter? so yes emailing may be efficient and quick.. but not very productive! shiduchim have to be done with convincing.. verbally.. and with passion.. just being an intermediary emailer isn't going to help! thanks bringing up this important issue and may we share in each others simchas very soon
(6/21/2010 11:38:41 PM)
104
totally side point
you mention in the article that the boy always gives an answer first after the date. Is that so? Is it because he has the upper hand or the opposite?
(6/21/2010 11:40:20 PM)
105
#101 BRILLIANT IDEA!!!!!
COLLive, please take this idea to heart
(6/21/2010 11:42:10 PM)
106
what about
moms and dads who dont return the calls to the shadchan and leave the other family waiting?? parents on both sides must return a call to shadchan asap not 3 days later EVEN if all they are going to say is 'we need a bit more time'
(6/22/2010 12:37:56 AM)
107
i know
seriously its ridiculous already i married off 6 kids pretty sucsessfully but my next is soooo hard i dont know why everyone says not for me thank god no more after him i mean it's so expensive we dont have a problem with money baruch hashem but it is
(6/22/2010 1:45:30 AM)
108
Comment
One of the shadchans I went to that charged for an interview told me that your husband does not need to be your best friend. Hello??????? Is it ok to marry someone that you just "kinda" like being with??? The other shadchan my parents paid for forwarded me an email from the mother of the guy saying that they looked into me but it was not for them. That mother was very courteous but how unprofessional of the shadchan!!! Both of them did not come up with even one suggestion. Thank you Raizy E for making my shidduch!!! Thank you Mrs. Bryski for being so patient and respectful and really caring!
(6/22/2010 4:08:32 AM)
109
She didn't call back
I am a single bochur. A friend of mine asked me if I could be a reference for him in the shiduch department. I was flattered by the request and happily agreed. Even though I live overseas from where my friend is located I have gotten a few calls from shadchanim regrding him. I had what I consider to be meaningul informative conversations with each of them. Then about 3 weeks ago I received a call on my cell phone from a shadchan overseas (where my friend is located). I couldn't really take the call as I was busy, so I asked her if she could call back in a couple of hours. She said "Oh, this will only take a couple of minutes," and then established the fact that due to the time difference, it would be too late for her in a couple hours' time. I said I really couldn't talk now, could she perhaps call me at the same time tomorrow? After trying again to convince me to speak right then and there, she agreed.
Three weeks have gone by and she has not called back. But I realised earlier, wait a minute, a woman makes an overseas phone call about a shiduch, which, if it were to go well, could be the phone call that could change and shape a prospective couple for the rest of their lives, and "this will only take a couple of minutes"?? I was happy she didn't call back becuase I don't think I would want to trust her with my information if she only wants to spend a couple of minutes taking to me about my friend. He is definitely worth more than that.

I am 23 and not ready to enter this parsha yet for many reasons. I'd like to know if this sort of thing happens often (judging by the comments here it seems it does...) but it just seems that there was a lack of care on the part of the shadchan (is the feminine form shadchonis??) I'm not trying to bash anyone C"V, I just want to know how these things work.

Thanks to the author of article for her insights.
(6/22/2010 6:43:07 AM)
110
Please read.
I am 26, and will iyH become the ripe old age of 27 come December. I am single, unmarried, and slowly becoming hopeless.
I date, I meet respected boys from good families, and after the third or so date, we come to the conclusion that we are not "for" eachother.
I am thin, I am average heights, I dress well, I am sophisticated, and I try my best to always be kind, well-mannered, and optimistic.
I do not want to become hardened, I do not want to becme bitter, and I do not want to be sad. I want nothing more than to find my zivug and to start my life together with him.
I have been dating since I turned 19 years old, and I have never been too picky, and I have always given a chance to an "idea."
This article has given me more hope, more hope that our system can alter and aide other girls, as well as myself - to finding their match.
So, please. I ask you not to bash the shadchanim, not to bash the author of this article (who seems wonderful) , and not to dismiss it with a mere chuckle or a grimace of distaste. I ask you, to listen. To please read my story, and to remind ourselves that there are more 26 year olds. I have friends. I have neighbors. I have cousins.
Please read, please help, and please do not become angry or upset - I haven't.
(6/22/2010 9:55:38 AM)
111
Yasher Koach, Riva!
Riva, you are the epitome of what a good shadchan should be. I have had the honor of having you successfully work on a shidduch for one of my children. You are not a "professional" shadchanit; you do the job because you truly care.

There is surely no shadchan who is more busy than you are. You run a successful business of your own. You are always there for your children and grandchildren. You are always there for friends. You are always there for the community. Chesed and ahavas yisroel are part and parcel of your being. Yet, you can always find the time in your busy schedule to work on a shidduch. Sometimes these things do not progress as easily as we would like, but you are always there to help things along with a gentle push.

I have found that the best "shadchanim" are friends and relatives...people who truly "know" the two people they are trying to put together. Take the young woman who was asked when investigating for a friend..."Is this your child you are asking for? You are so passionate about her." That says it all! We all have to be shadchanim. We all have to be as compassionate about everybody else's children as we are about our own.

Yasher koach, Riva. May you continue to be successful in making shidduchim. And, in the zchus of that and all your other good deeds, may Hashem grant you good health, long life, parnassa and nachas from your children and grandchildren.
(6/22/2010 10:05:46 AM)
112
Let's do it NOW!!
Thank you Riva for addressing the shidduch issue exactly how it is!!! Your idea for creating a vaad for making shidduchim is a wonderful one . Other writers mentioned officicial shidduch groups in major cities . that is also a very very good plan. NOW we have to put it into action!
If we begin right away we could have our boys/girls engaged during the summer! Who are the people that will put it together?
(6/22/2010 12:02:22 PM)
113
System isn't going to change.....Very nice article written by someone with plenty of connections in chabad.....
Mazal Tov to you on your daughters marriage.
It is wonderfull that you were able to successfully make a shidduch with local shadchanim.
Many of us haven't been able to.
You are well connected in Chabad so that may have been a significant factor.
I have to agree that the system is not working for the majority. And I believe the shadchanim are trying when they want to , with whom they want to.
The question is , do you fit their criteria?
No call backs, no answers, list of names being given and ignored .....
They do choose whom they want to help .
I have to quote #45.
why is it we end up feeling the shadchan just does not really care? we are not a priority. No real effort is made to look for a shidduch necessarily. If something comes along, fine and well. And if not, we the parents are left hanging....
I am not going to let our community pressure my kids.
Its a small community and the Jewish velt is a bigger one.
If the shaddchanim want to be choosy and snobby -this is something between them and the Abishter.
Erlicher yidden can be found amongst klal yisroel.
My kids have my brocha to look for their zvigim in the klal.
Chabad at this point is too small of a tiny pool to swim in!!!
good luck to everyone
(6/22/2010 1:53:43 PM)
114
To #110
what kind of a person are you looking for???
(6/22/2010 4:25:01 PM)
115
From a shadchan
It is always a pleasure to work with nice, appreciative, and grateful people. Why would anyone want to work with people who display negative attitudes? It is understandable that there are many frustrated parents out there who didn't expect the shidduchim process to take so long; however, taking it out on the only person who can help you is counterproductive.
Wouldn't you choose to work with people who are nice rather then those who aren't?
(6/22/2010 4:31:10 PM)
116
one more point
i work in a school where we have a few girls on shlichus every year.sometimes people call me about these girls but never introduce themselves.even when i ask their name they say something like"what difference does it make".i always tell them if you want to subject me to what amounts to an interrogation about a person that i work with i can not speak to an anonymous caller;it's just doesn't seem right.i respect a person's right to privacy but please respect might right not to feel abused.
(6/22/2010 6:22:19 PM)
117
TO 115
THERE IS A REASON FOR THE NEGATIVE ATTITUDES , YOU AREN'T PAYING ATTENTION!!
(6/22/2010 7:18:59 PM)
118
#116
they aren't trying to abuse your rights. shidduchim is a confidential process. thats why people tend to like to stay anon. so don't take it personal. think about the fact, that if they tell you who they are, you may be more subjective... may tell your yenta dvusha neighbor that so and so called you about ____, and oh what a..... and then the whole crown heights has to know... bekitzur, these matters are better off remaining as discreet and confidential as possible.
(6/22/2010 7:53:06 PM)
119
#116
i AGREE WITH U PEOPLE R ALWAYS CALLING and when I ask who they r they don't want to say . MY CHILDREN ALSO GET CALLS ABOUT THEIR FRIENDS and the caller doesn't want to reeal who it is , it isn't right it gives a very bad impresion of u whoever u r I sometimes feel like saying I can't talk to u unless I know wh u r .
(6/22/2010 7:56:22 PM)
120
JUST BE A MENTSCH
as with everything else people just have ot be respectful, If u're not interested in the girl/boy don't shlep it say it right away , it only gets harder the longer u shlep it. Be honest
don't drey a kop. of course u have to do u're research and ask people that r close to u, cuz everyone else is only going to say good things. and mothers there is only so much research u can do let u're son have a say in the matter too. In the end HE has to be the one that likes the girl u r only second fiddle , some mothers can't deal with that.
(6/22/2010 8:05:10 PM)
121
daughter of a shadchan
my mother is a shadchan, and i must say that all that you are saying goes to show you dont know how much work goes into every shidduch. being a shadchan is a 24/7 job--literally! when shes not on the phone, shes meeting someone, or shes thinking, but her mind is always on this! my mother doesnt charge anything, and doesnt even get paid, sometimes not even for making a shidduch! you have to realize that shes human and bh has a big family kah, and has a life! even though she is working 24/7 she may not be able to answer the phone all the time, but she does get back to you.
reading this makes me feel that all the hard work my mother does, and all the time she gives everyone isnt appreciated, and i dont think thats fair, the same way you want all the time in the world, so does everyone else, including her family!
i think everyone should take into consideration that my mother, along with all other shadchonim, literally put their life into this, and all their work, and time should be appreciated.
(6/22/2010 8:38:54 PM)
122
to #118
if they think i would do such a thing then they surely shouldn't take their time to call me and ask such important questions.
(6/22/2010 9:13:40 PM)
123
well
I am 25 ke'h.. I'd like to think i'm normal.. yet I get few if any shiduchim offers..so alas I have actualy forgotten about shiduchim.. the only time it dawns on me is when I read col..

Oh and I know thousands upon thousands of people.. I must have fallen through the cracks
(6/22/2010 9:16:09 PM)
124
kuddo to you riva
the rebbe keeps saying that we have to do our share and hashem does his, with the rebbe bracha we married and with chana gorowitz saying everything comes from hashem, it is quite true that without a name or what ever the reason,l feel push aside,as we have a family of handicapped of well capable put together people,thank g-d all of my children are strong,proud jews,but we have handicappes, the eyes or the ears and it's tough! people don't want to touch us. you can see my son on the special needs bar mitzvah, he,moshe maness k'ah, did with his friend ruvien oberlander from the release time program,right now him and his friend are visiting prisons, he stop in home on the way to others, even if l say so myself,he;s has a beautiful soul. the rebbe gave a bracha for stem cell treatmant, but we have no money for it and the few people l did ask, did not respond. can any one help? we all hope for the imm geula,serel chana maness
(6/22/2010 9:28:19 PM)
125
To #109
well maybe she was just busy?
(6/22/2010 10:01:28 PM)
126
#104
Do you also ask why he pays for the date?
(6/23/2010 12:23:58 AM)
127
to number 9
i went out with your daughter i believe, and i really didnt think she was all that great. But boy do i know someone for her. you should totally have our shatchan set the 2 of them up.
call my mother for the info
Yossi
P.S
anyone have a good chasidash girl for me?
(6/23/2010 1:11:54 AM)
128
to #101
excellent, simple and easy to do idea!!! collive - you've already done so much in this area, with these articles - can you add this feature too??? so simple, and so smart - who was the shadchan?
(6/23/2010 1:29:38 AM)
129
hakoras hatov
The basic hakoras hatov must be shown to a shadchan. When I say basic i mean basic. When a shadchan sets up your child a few times (even once for that matter) call him or her up and say THANK YOU! yes THANK YOU! I appreciate your time (OR MANY HOURS) that you spent for my child.
Most of the time the shadchan doesn't even know you and is giving so much selfless time and devotion for you and your child just to help another yid find their bashert.

Even when setting up a time and place sometimes it could take hours on the phone....Does this shadchan owe you anything ? And think to yourself: would I ever spend so much time ,effort , devotion, and selflessness for another as this shadchan is spending on me? I would be sure to say that many a respnse would be NO! So before you put down the phone on your shadchan take the time yes YOUR time and say thank you! I really appreciate your time! If anyone's time is limited it is that of a shadchan. show a liittle hakoras hatov! And remember the shadchan doesn't owe you anything especially IF YOU DIDN"T PAY HIM/HER!
(6/23/2010 2:14:58 AM)
130
Riva Denburg writes in RESPONSE to calls from shadchanim regarding this article.
I wrote this about the system. I wrote this to express that I feel there is a lack of feeling shown to the parents by shadchanim and A SOLUTION FOR CHANGE. I did not expect such an outpouring of frustration, sadness, stress, pain . I have gotten ALOT of private emails and calls too and some were from shadchanim. One who feels I owe an apology for voicing my feelings and "making things worse?" Why? Did I say anything in my article that was not confirmed? Did I say anything that was untruthful? Obviously I did not judging from the amount of people who voiced their issues. I told the shadchanim to do their jobs with respect. I told them to hear the pain, I told them to call or text and say hello to someone who was waiting for days to get a call back from someone who promised to call back in 10 minutes. I DID write that no one should hold the shadchanim to full blame because they are parents and full time employees BUT they are the official shadchanim who are known throughout our chabad community and so, they and we together bear the burden for change. A shadchan wrote that she likes to deal with nice people. I agree, in any business that is the case. I read that some never received any compensation, not even a thank you, and that is really terrible.
I read several comments of people who wrote that their shadchanos experience was wonderful. Maybe they should write an article too, AND SIGN THEIR NAME! And mention the shadchanim who would have a chance to feel better about this.
More importantly, maybe this will be the wake up call to establish this shidduch office. Maybe the powers that be in the donation and accounting offices of Chabd Lubavitch will finally recognize that we must take care of our own.
(6/23/2010 9:07:13 AM)
131
i know of A Great Shadchan!
Mrs. Tziril Frankel from LA is an amazing shadchan!
you can call her, she will not look down at anyone. her only interest is to help people!
#127, u can give her a call, maybe shell have some good ideas :)
(6/23/2010 11:59:00 AM)
132
dear mrs.maness
my heart goes out to you.i too have a developmentally disabled son and ....it's not easy.anyways my kids are almost at the shidduch parsha but not yet so it may be easy for me to say but i truly believe that anyone not interested in my children because of their brother doesn't belong in my family.Hashem should help you find your childrens ' z ivugim sson! esther weiner
(6/23/2010 1:05:43 PM)
133
To #70
Very Well said!!
(6/23/2010 3:36:36 PM)
134
Kol Hakavod
This very complex issue does not have easy answers, but I would definitely have liked to see a come back to what a chassidishe shidduch process should be, especially when this has been totally forgotten. It was always the parents responsibility to look for the right zivug of their children, after discussing with them what is important for them. The children only got involved once a suggestion became serious, they did not have to to through all the difficult moments that most parents go through up to that point. It would be nice to see this whole concept of "dating" out of our lingo since that does not belong in a chassidishe setting. Bochurim & girls have meetings for one purpose, marriage! Meetings ideally in a private home setting. (even when one's own home is not appropriate, other homes can always be arranged for it, as it is done by so many) Limiting the meetings to a certain amount of time is most certainly a good thing. An unlimited amount of meetings is also pointless. All this eliminates so many issues that otherwise come up, like the ichud problem when they are alone in a car, keeping the meeting discreet without having to worry who they will meet in some public location, the outrageous amounts of money boys (their parents) have to spend on each meeting etc. If our children would be educated in a more chassidishe way in this area things would look very different and avoid many heartaches and agmas nefesh. The whole Shiduch process takes a totally different perspective when done in the proper way, b'derech Yisroel saba. Besoros Toivos!
(6/24/2010 12:05:56 AM)
135
To numbers 78 and 101
These are great ideas.
78: Speed dating aounds like fun. I think it is awkward to go on a blind date with a person because I usually feel presured to stay out for at least one hour and that does not include the drive to get there or the drive home. Sometimes I have felt after only thirty minutes that I want to go home. This idea will ease some of the tension because there will be a forced departure.
If someone is a "no" then it only lasts eight minutes with no hard feelings afterword because of no expectations and if somone is a "yes" then you will formally meet at another time. I would do it myself if given the opportunity.
(6/24/2010 5:07:43 PM)
136
An Open Letter to Riva Denburg
Dear Riva
Shidduch crisis as you call it cannot be blamed totaly on the shadchanim. There are so many causes. That is an issue in itself.
Shadchanim put their energy and their essence into making a zivug work ,yet we cannot totally rely on them. A shidduch is min hashomayim (as everything else is) and we are here in this world just to make a proper keli. WE AS BELIEVERS do not rely on "nedivim" as the verse in Tehillim teaches us.Once we have the emuna and trust that it is Hashem who happens to send us the right shadchan and the matching shidduch -we will surely be calmer. i don't think the phsycologist can promise anyone a proper shidduch or a happy marriage ... we are very dependant on the One above for everything!
Chabad Lubavitch is not responsible to organise any system for any cause or anyone.
We should all open our eyes and realize that shadchanim are decent and extremely devoted people who actually work 24/7 and are not in a very flourishing business.
We in Chabad should learn from the "Bais Yaakov" education and have a bit of HAKARAS HATOV and not be so demanding. And if being demanding is your nature ,please do NOT influence others to be so too.
Appreciate what others do on their spare time to help the singles of our kehilla. If you aren't happy with one shadchan - try another- we do not live in communist Russia anymore like your parents!!!!!
(6/24/2010 5:42:49 PM)
137
To 134
YASHER KOACH!!! Finally, I see a Lubavitcher who agrees that the dating system in Lubavitch has gone haywire. It's incomprehensible that we are the only Chassidishe group that dates like the Litvishe. If only singles met in a Tzniyusdike manner in a home setting, at resonable hours, for a reasonable length of time, and a reasonable number of times, how many heartbreaks could be avoided and issurim kept...
(6/24/2010 9:01:02 PM)
138
To 136
I couldn't have said it better myself! RIGHT ON tHE MONEY!!!!
(6/24/2010 9:43:37 PM)
139
To # 136
The article was not a bashing of particular shadchanim.It was about the asytem and yes no one said the shadchanim were not for the most part decent people and caring etc. Just do their jobs wioth respect!
Riva never said the shadchanim are in it for the money but maybe the pay as you go for every set up date is also a good idea. Whatever, makes it more workable!
BUT: " Chabad Lubavitch is not responsible to organize any system for any cause or anyone?"
You must be kidding! That is exactly the opposite of what The Rebbe always said. take care of another Jew! How can you disregard responsibility for your fellow Lubavitcher? Just look at Kingston Ave on any given day and tell me how ignoring the issues of our young people are working for you.
(6/25/2010 10:02:47 AM)
140
A single Bachur
I have been on the scene for a year already, I actually made a shiduch for a cousin of mine.I think there are 4 problems that contribute to the shiduch crisis in general.

Problem # 1 Parents do way to much research, no one is perfect your always going to hear 1 or 2 things about a Bachur or a girl you dont want to hear. Stop being so picky if you heard alot of good things let them go out and decide!

Problem # 2 The boys and girls themselves are to picky and they cannot commit it's a very big problem,If everything makes sense for the right reasons you went out alot of time you feel comfortable go for it.

Problem # 3 Shadchanim are a big issue in general they have to be more mentchlich and do more research.There are good ones as well I must admit!

Problem # 4 Maybe the biggest problem of all in my opinion are the references.Mothers call them up and they have nice things to say but they cant articulate well at all.Then the mothers call up other people trying to get a better feel for the guy or girl, they barely know the person but they feel bad so they give some garbage report that isn't accurate at all so the mother gets turned off.Bottom line is their isn't any justice done for the boys or girls.

IF YOU DON'T KNOW SOMEONE JUST SAY YOU DON'T HIM OR HER!!!

PARENTS STOP TAKING EVERY LITTLE THING SOMEONE SAYS LIKE IT'S WRITTEN IN STONE, JUST GET A GENERAL IDEA AND MOVE ON!

NO ONE IS PERFECT!!!!!!!!

To # 110 and # 123 I feel bad it's a shame that you fell through the cracks because of this system but don't give up hope there are alot of older boys and girls still waiting I
feel your pain.

I wish you all the luck in the world may you both find your bashert now!!!
(6/25/2010 1:14:36 PM)
141
miami mother
Kol Hakavod Riva, for taking the time to bring this important issue to everyone's attention. Most people grumble in private but don't make the effort to open up a dialogue. I do not get the feeling, from your article, that you are "bashing shadchanim"; rather it seems to me that each parent, child, shadchan, friend, must look within themselves and examine their own behavior.......have I been respectful to the shadchan....have I been respectful to the parent/boy/girl.............
There is a need for all communities to focus more on proper midos and how to treat each other bain odom lachavero. Any shadchan who does not make the minimum effort at kovod habrios should re-think their behavior. Of course the same goes for any parent or child and his or her behavior. For those shadchanim claiming they are bombarded, it would seem to me that you are obviously successful and people want to speak with you. So go out and hire a secretary, place reminders on your cel phone or computer; don't ask the parent to keep reminding you.....what disrespect! If you feel harassed maybe you are in the wrong field. If you are good at making shidduchim, please don't complain about lack of thank you's and gifts. Any business person knows that hard work is often thankless but the reward comes from the end result and the felling of having put in a good effort to achieve that result. Of course it is inherent upon every parent to pay any shadchan that has made a shidduch for a child of theirs. There should never be a question of that. It seems so many shadchanim have written in with some pretty big chips on their shoulders. Either do the mitzvah for the mitzvah's sake, or make it a business and act like a proper professional. But please. quit whining.
(6/25/2010 1:27:10 PM)
142
It's really all in Hashem's hands.
Hashem promises that if we look after His children (ie. each other, our fellow Jews) then He will look after our children.
So, if we want Hashem's help with shidduchim for our children, we must actively suggest shidduchim for our friends' children.
Let Hashem worry about your kids, and you should rather spend time thinking about who could possibly be suggested for other singles. Then Hashem will cause suggestions to come up for your own kids.
Let's hear good news!
(6/27/2010 12:06:38 AM)
143
Riva is the Best.
After reading your article, I feel that you should head all the Shadchanim, firstly by becoming an "official" Shadchanter, and devoting your time towards making many more successful Shiduchim. If you could could give out a phone number and the best time to be reached, myself and many others will surely use your services. Thank you Riva for clearing things up. Mrs. S. of CH
(6/27/2010 4:49:16 PM)
144
looking for shaddchan
I need your help. My daughter is back from Seminary (she is sweet, beautiful, and smart but then I am her mother...) and I need names of good shadchanim. Can anyone recommend a devoted shaddchan? We live in Florida but she can date up north as well. thanks in advance.
(7/5/2011 11:19:11 AM)
145
Thanks to shadchonim for being there and please daven for yourself and others
I wanted to thank all the shadchonim for the great job they do. I think all of them do whatever they can to fulfill their potential given to them by Hashem. She Shadchonim are shluchim of Hakodesh B'ruchu who really is THE SHADCHAN. Not all shadchonim are the same and not all of them are able to be very efficient or sensitive. One thing we have to understand, that things which happen to us, all things come from Hakodesh B'ruchu- through things that happen to us or people we meet throughout our lifetime. It does not help you to runf after the best shadchonim and pay them thousands if you don't daven to Hashem for siata d'shmaya. In the end what do you want, to marry off your kids or to marry them off happily?Hashem answers our prayers if they are sincere and appropriate. Maybe someone is happy with a thin girl (I am not thin, rather average) but in the end of the day you live with the soul of the person who is inside that body. To see beyond the body and to see the person beyond the body is essential. I always wanted the perfect man. Until I actually got married to someone who did not quite meet my (unrealistic) critiria. You won't be happy just with money you will be happy with the person who values you fully and respects you for who you are. You won't be happy (just) with looks if the person behind is not beautiful. You won't be happy with someone who will tell you stories and never keep his word in real life.
Please look for a mentsch, please look for a good-hearted person who loves people in general and is not judgemental. Look for someone who gives, who shares, who is positive. Who loves life and knows that everything comes from Hashem. We are all jews, we should help each other to be happy, to build lives and to be an example ourselves. I have a few unmarried friends and I try davening for them when separating challah, saying tehillim etc. I hope Hashem will send each of them a suitable husband very soon iYH.
(10/30/2011 7:44:41 AM)
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