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Apr 8, 2010
Dating Is Making Me Broke
Shidduchim SOS: I know of some guys who won't fly for a date unless there are 2 or 3 girls lined up to go out with him, just in case the first girl doesn’t work out... From the COLlive Inbox:
Hi, I'm a bochur who has gone on plenty of dates and is still looking for my bashert. I am not from Crown Heights, so many times I find myself having to fly out to meet the girl (as it is the custom that the boy goes to the girl).
To put it bluntly: The whole shidduch thing has burnt a hole in my pocket!
Before you jump to conclusions, let's put this in perspective:
* Taking off time from work - costs me $.
* Flight ticket (sometimes only 3 days in advance notice) - more $.
* Car rental (and for the guys who don't drive, taxis) - more $.
* As the "gentleman," I'm the one who needs to pay for the drinks on the date (and in NY they are far from cost price) - more $.
* Then there is parking (which can get pricy if the date goes long and well). Guess what, more $.
* And if I go out on more than one date (which usually happens for both of us so we give each other another chance), we’re talking about a good $700 out of my wallet to spend on a girl that I might not even marry.
I can understand if you are one of the lucky ones to find your zivug after one or two tries. But unfortunately there are many like me who are still looking for their better half after five or six tries.
So let's make a deal: If the guy is going to fly from out-of-town to go out with a girl, the cost should be split or shared.
This suggestion is not to exchange receipts or demand a refund if the date does not work out.
But for the most part it takes two to tango and at least the airfare and/or the rental car should be divided.
It's just fair for the guy not to have to shell out at least $400 from his pocket every time a prospective shidduch comes up.
(I even know of some who won't fly in unless there are 2 or 3 girls lined up, just in case the first girl doesn't work out. Just to note: This is a bad idea in my eyes).
So be a mentsch, potential-shver-in-law and gives the bochur a few bucks as participation in our expenses so we don't spend our entire life's earnings trying to find a wife.
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Being that I'm a girl - I could on principle disagree, but that wouldn't be a very nice principle. Author has a point - and a well made one at that.
The girl should pay out of her own money, she is the one dating not her father!
Knowing what you are going thru, I hate it when boys spend a ton of money on me on dates. It makes me feel so guilty. I'm glad when they find meter parking or use coupons in a parking garage, or borrow a car instead of rent. Don't worry you dont look cheap if you do, the right girl will appreciate a money wise careful bochur.
That said the best solution is just to give in and move to CH. I know, I resisted it too for the first few years and then realized the hole burning in MY pocket was too large,(bus and plane tickets to NY) as well as fewer boys willing to date me. And I moved. I'm telling you its so much easier!!!
(Ironically the first date I got after moving to CH was an out of town boy that wanted me to come to him. I said no way! and he gave in and came to CH, and yes while I did feel bad for his expenses incurred, I don't feel I was wrong. I really strongly feel if you are seriously dating you belong in CH.)
2) you dont always have to rent a car. most people borrow a car or take a taxi it might be cheaper
3) if you take a taxi you dont need to park and if you drive there is parking all around the city and if its cold you can park at your hotel just pay for the meter.
4) most girls buy cheap drinks and some just take water which is free and since the guy is driving he can get a soda or water as well
total date taxi to the city and back with drinks under $100
Darkoi shel ish lachzor acharei hoisha.
It is a lot of money and people should try to be understanding.
I agree with your very well articulated concern and I'll explain why.
If shidduch dating were standard dating you would not be completely correct since a girl (in most cases) feels like she should be taken out and for her it show that the guy cares about her. Shidduch dating however is very different, I like to call the first date (maybe even the second one) a meeting. It is most definitely NOT a date (with the exception of cases where guy and girl know each other from elsewhere) since at the beginning of a shidduch it is two parties mutually agreeable to try something that they are not (in reality) emotionally attached to.
PS I can see that girls may not appreciate that sort of arrangement that much (since it would take away from the excitement of the date) but do you really want to fool yourself into thinking that this guy you never met really knows you $700 worth? Wouldn't most girls think that a guy who doesn't know her and want's to spend $700 just to meet her is creepy?
this is sheer genius! it makes so much sense! a bit unconventional, but aren't all the best ideas unconventional?
Its not a matter of 'well this is what the boys have been doing forever so i dont have to split all the costs with him', rather its a matter of mentchlichkeyt. comeon girls.. lets do the right thing.
may it be anyone in search of their zivug should find one b'shaah tovah, and live happily together for 180 healthy joyous years. moshiach now.
What is up with that??
is that really fair to girl number one?
dont you think he is dating her with the thought - "I cant commit now, I may miss out on something even better"
that seems pretty unfair to me...
Shidduchim in this website?
why do you think so many shidduch-age people MOVE to CH, the great weather, beautiful apartments, or high paying jobs? not likely...
that is the consequence.
The aibeshter didn't create females thinking that "ahhh so the maalos of being a woman are that they'll have the extra special mitzvah of lighting shabbos candles, making kugels and not having to pay for dates!" women are no more entitled than men in having to pay.
please get real.
its true the girls side pays for the wedding
i think this would work alot better, if people work this way..
Your spouse is going to cost you millions and you are complaining for 700 box?
Imagine that you got married last year,now think, how much money did you save now that you are still single?
But ,it looks that you are not getting maried b/c you are affraid about your future expenses
girls, and guys- you spend money on different things, shouldnt the girl be complaining that its too expensive to pay for the majority of the wedding? nevertheless, they do it. (unless an arrangement is worked out prior to it)
anyways just wanted to say, nicely written article, im lovin the sense of humor. and if you and I end up going out sometime, please dont order water.
:)
2. If a guy wanted to keep his cash rather than spend it on risky shidduchim, he would'nt go to Prime Grill.
"In exchange" boys should also make some changes ie consider going out with a girl who is say older or doesnt reach the exact physical specs as you would like and give more girls a fair chance.
Like you said "It takes two to tango" in the dating world...things have got to change, so give a little and get a little...
Other than that, I agree with whoever mentioned skype, video chat, do that a couple of times before you hop on a plane or bus.
-single gal in ch
I would like to clarify, for those who think he is cheap, that my impression is that he is not complaining that he spent once 700$ for a date, but that it is happening again and again and again. That's where the rpoblem is. And still, this bochur works, so he is lucky. I remember my brother, learning in 770, telling me how he doesn't understand why bochurim, who clearly don't work, as they are lamdanim, have to pay good money for each date, money that they don't have. While the girls works, gets a great pay to not know what to do with it, lives at home or has minor expanses, and still doesn't have any share whatsoever in the date. And please, don't mention the make-up and clothes, because you get to use it on tons of other occasions...
I think a guy has the right to ask that half his travel expanses will be paid.
However, someone suggested phone/internet dating before actually meeting the girl, and I think it's completely WRONG. There is nothing like meeting a person face to face, as unpleasant as it may sometimes unfortunately be.
I would symphasize more with you if you were not earning anything just learning.
And to conclude Yackov avinu didn't even come with any possesions, money, his own shirt on his back he got it from a dead drown man(look in the midrash) he had to work 14 years for the wife he loved Rochel(which nowadays would translate into approximatly 700 grand for 14 years work. which is about 1000 times your average shiduch expenses which you say is $700.
most times whoever has more money pays for the wedding or its split 50/50 and een if you go to the old style where the guys pays for music pictures and so on its just about 50/50 as well
can find out if there's a good chance before you incur such expenses.
I am out of town, and told my daughters that they really have no choice, it is just the way it is.
If your being out-of-town is shlichus, this is MORE IMPORTANT THAN SHLICHUS at this time in your life. If it is business, well if you are earning big bucks, money is not a problem, and you hop on a plane. It sounds like money is indeed a problem, so it is not such a great job, and you could find something in NY, even if it means sharing an apartment - all the out-of-town girls share apartments.
My daughter met someone who came to her out-of-town, but it was understood that if the date went anywhere, she would fly in to NY for a second date. (It didn't).
Best wishes.
BROCHOH VEHATZLOCHOH
I can tell you from experience, good thinking. There was an article here (still up on the sidebar) last year........... and now we're married.
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Editors Note: Please be in touch, we would love to hear from you. editor@collive.com
they seem to have a strong common ground that is very fundamental, and of course although i dont know either ofthem personally the guy wears pants and te girl a skirt
a) I'm u can find some other "perks" to being a girl then the fact that a stranger (who in shidduchim case might not want to) buys u a drink.
b) You don't HAVE to buy a new dating dress each time and if u do (cause you can) you're not going to throw it out after.
c) the cost of the amount of make up u use probably comes out to .75 cents at most
Dating is NOT marriage and also not as closely related as people think. Once you're on the second or third date they have a point but not for the first.
Instead we need to talk about moving to ch or a dating car gmach in ch.
And #33 are you for real?! Do you need new clothes for every date?! What would you be wearing if you were not dating?? And are you that bad looking that you need 700$ worth of makeup?? If so... Then with a combo of that and your attitude.... Good luck
I do like #18. Great idea!
If only . . .
My issue with most of these comments if how so many of you seem willing to compromise when it comes to halachah and minhagim - dating through computers, skype, phone calls, etc... was all not acceptable then and should not be now either. Starting off in the wrong derech only leads to other wrongs taking place...
I am a little bit of an old schooler and believe that the cost of dates should be the guys responsibility. However, I believe today, there is a bad trend taking place within the dating circles.
When a guy agrees to date a girl, he has a large investment going into it and takes his decision seriously. He does not want to just say "yes, I'll date her" unless he can see a glimmer of hope that this might be "the one". He will make sure that he has done research, possibly seen a picture of her and will want to talk to her on the phone at least once before he buys a ticket and plans a trip. Then he will want to spend the right amount of time with her before he gives up and decides that this is not going to work.
With a girl, it is quite different. There is hardly any investment and therefore the attitude going into the date is quite different also.
I am not saying that all girls do this, but there are many who will date without any research done beforehand. They are much more ready to say "yes to meeting the guy for the first time without really looking into it or without really caring. "They walk in and out of a date without having spent a dime. As a result, they don't feel like they need to put in the effort of pursuing the shidduch and can easily say "no, he's not the right one". Next week, another guy will come along to take her out and she will go through the same thing. They love to get dressed up and be taken out in a rented car, but the moment they have to put thought into it, it's an easy no.
I know that many girls don't do this and get more emotionally involved in dates, but I am only trying to bring out one point here and that is that when there is no investment put into a potential shidduch, it is more likely to be a careless date that will lead to nothing and possibly cost someone else a lot of unnecessarily spent yiddishe gelt.
67: that was funny..(the 2nd half)
why is that a right thing to say???????
it also depends on the type of girl your are. Im the type of girl to get things done on my own and think that when the boy opens the door for the girl, its soooo dorky. get a life, its real like here , your an adult and take care of yourself!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
its absurd that bochurim and de facto their parents have to fork out endlessly for speculative shidduchim. whats the difference between that and gambling on a roulette wheel.
even worse..many girls apparently are not remotely interetsed in the shidduchim their parents have lined up for them and just curious so they go along with the whoe chardade which in itself is gnaivas daas. the halcah is clear.. one is not permitted to go into a store and ask how much is this or that when you have no intention of buying.
oh jonny jonny jonny jonny why do you come to the market...you dont buy, you dont sell, all you do is smell. sounds familiar folks......
suggestion lets both sides share the costs airline tickets et al them see how fast they agree to meet.
SKYPE SHIDDUCHIM....YOU CAN EVEN TURN OFF THE SCREEN INSTANTLY IF YOUR NOT COMPATIBLE..
A few other good points have been raised, I think that all (mature) bochrim and girls pay quite enough on dates, if not with money then on an emotional level, so that is not where the problem is. I think the people setting up the date should have more invested in them. Here are people who stand to gain $1000 if it works out, but have nothing to lose if it does not! There is nothing quite as frustrating as being set up with someone who is completely not shaiach.
Therefore I propose that a shadchin should be made to dish out $100 worth of expenses for every shiddich they set up. This will be an excellent incentive for them to put some thought into their work. Isn’t that why we pay so much in shadchonus gelt?!
I also think we should institute mandatory (like dor yesharim) classes for both singles (how to date 101) [understandably they would have to be separate classes for bochrim and girls, but they should at least be taught be the same instructor] and couples (how to treat your husband/wife 101). I think Mrs. Shaffer did some things like that…
On second thoughts, maybe I should. . who knows, I may just be bombarded with suggestions . . . as I said, "if only . . "
but thanks for the advice anyway. , ,
Just constructive criticism here!! ;)
or what ever you want. then no one will know who you are.
and also, dont think lowly of yourself. who ever you are, G-D created you with your unique qualities, and as i like to say "every pot has a cover" and so does yours!
and about this whole issue... i agree with the author!
i am a girl, and i personally feel uncomfortable when i c a guy is spending so much money on me. it puts extra pressure, and you're not thinking about what is ikkar!
just come on time, be polite, and no one cares so much about the car.( some times you work harder to impress the girl, then the girl needs to be impressed)
be a bit more simple, borrow a car (just make sure its nice and clean) and park by a meter.
also, about having more than one dates awaiting u when u fly from out of town, i think only the parents should know that there is another person waiting. if they boy/girl knows, they will feel like they have to c all of them, cuz what if the other was better... this way only if the first doesnt work out then they tell the guy/girl that they have another suggestion.
and about girls buying stuff...i think its true girls spend some $ on clothes and makeup, but it doesnt go to waste, u can always wear it again.
#79 every one knows who u r... it kinda went public, and ppl figured it out... but good for u! btw, u have a gr8 voice.
bottom line is, you need to have bitachon, consult your mashpia through out the whole time. and IYH, every one will find the right one, at the right time!!
#93 i agree about the classes thing, we can all use extra tips.
HATZLACHA TO YOU ALL!
Please don't feel you have to impress us with the money you don't have. Park on the street, its less pressure for us. We don't mind circling for half an hour, we don't have any time we have to get to the destination. Also you don't have to take us to ritzy hotels where water costs $8. We don't mind starbucks or other casual non-conventional dating spots.
#58 please post your name, phone#, email, skirt size, and eye color...
I personally know the author and I'll definately pass it on!
If you want to split the dating money, why not split the cost of the wedding as well? Do you know how much more that costs? Cant even compare!
I'm offering to sponsor the event with minimum to no door fee.
I welcome ideas and suggestions at: parksloperetail@yahoo.com
No seriously, it does sound like the author and I have some common ground and I am looking for an out of towner as well, so is there anyway to contact him? Not directly of course that would be too freaky but maybe the author can contact a reputable shadchan and then post the shadchan's name so people who are interested can contact the shadchan about him? Of course the shadchan has every right to demand an interview with any potential people who contact her before releasing the boys name so as to weed out any pranksters. But I really feel this is a tachlisdik way to actually accomplish something rather than just sit around and gripe.
ATTN: AUTHOR!
Author if you are reading this please contact a shadchan you trust, post her name and get your ball rolling! However you will have to pay for your own plane ticket as I moved to CH and pay enough in rent and CH living expenses to justify you paying your way here! However you dont need to rent a car or pay parking, I would be just fine with taking the subway to meet you somewhere in Manhatten and walk around a park. Oh and I can bring my own drink.
PLEASE PLEASE get off COL and go on sawyouatsinai.com
ps. btw, author...number 3 is a DEFINITE catch, i mean come on! she said shed even bring her own drink! cant get better than that...
He had the cost of one weeks car rental, gas, the cost of each of the dates....luckily he was able to stay by a friends house...but some bochurim come to a city where they need a hotel to stay at. All in all the dates with this girl didn't work out and my friend had spent about $1,000.
Now imagine if you have to do that for another few out of town girls. The Bochur who wrote this article has a legitimate concern and I'm glad there's this forum for him to discuss it.
Also, you and others were saying that you're okay with guys not spending a lot on you and that they can save money. To me it sounds like most of the expenses will still be there like the ticket, taking off work and (most people will still need) the car (+gas & coverage etc). Also, if the guy is not a cheap guy he will not feel comfortable ruining a good night looking for parking. The only problem is that he's having his nice evening with a stranger whom he might never meet again.
My personal opinion is that in most cases no one should fly or put in that much investment into just meeting someone. That's why I strongly believe that there needs to be more opportunities for meeting in a nice, relaxing and enjoyable Social setting. I'm going to contact #109 after shabbos and leaving my email maybe we'll get something rolling.
last but not least..it's not a secret but I wouldn't say it's public either thanks for keeping it that way...
#79
ls11213@yahoo.com
good comeback
i personally dont agree with the whole plastering on make-up, but how dare one think that make-up must be so cheap. make-up could be up to $80-$100 for one small eye-shaddow. dont start me on the make-up artist...... and dont say to buy cheap ones. its as bad as applying paint to your face.
However, I love how some of you are saying that if we want to get married, we should just move to CH for a couple of years....as if some of us don't already have a lives in other countries - as if we can just pick up and leave. Just drop out of school, or leave our jobs, our commitments, e.t.c.
I've seen it happen time and time again, after a couple of 'unsuccessful' years of mild dating whilst living out of the U.S./(NY in particular). Finally people feel they have to give in and go live in a dingy basement in CH, and they find some random job that just about keeps them busy, not always happy, just busy and in the 'area'.
I am adamantly against this being the norm.
It doesn't make sense for people who are living happy, stable lives, to have to disrupt and give it all up, especially but not exclusively if they have a career.
I'm all for marriage, and I know dating doesn't always come easy, but you can't really expect everyone to just pick up and come to CH, we can make it work if we want to!
We just have to be prepared to give a little, and use opportunities, like when people are already flying in to NY for weddings or Chof Beis, or Tishrei, or vacation....
That's all for now :)
I definately agree with 33 , girls have to cook and clean and take care if the kids for life , the only time they might feel a bit pampered, u start complaining!!! Mayb don't go to kollel after marriage and start working!
I dont really intend to contact him. I'd never go out with someone based on an article and I most def would never go to a site like saw you at sinai. Please try and see the humorous side of life. Its good for you and you'd be a happier person.
gnite :)
of finance and economics. This way they can start their married lives knowing what costs lay ahead of them and not have a major rude awakening later on.
I lived outside CH. And had a good job, car, apartment etc. I would do
the flying thing...and spent thousands on dating.
Then I decided to move. NOT to save money. It was a change in
attitude. A different approach.
It really depends on what your current focus in life is. What is the
#1 priority. For most of my early adult life, my focus was on career.
Working. I did date. But it was a side thing. Every few months, I'd
fly to date. For me, flying on a weekend was very challenging. It felt
very strange...setting aside a weekend to find a wife.
Then one day, I decided that my focus should change. And my first
priority should be to find my wife. So I packed up my stuff and moved
to ch. Trust me; it wasn't fun. But I had a job to do; to get married.
I found a job. Then began dating. And a year and four months later, I
am bh happily married. And we are moving ;)
For me, dating, money, work etc...all boils down to what you make a priority.
Eye shadow $20 / 200 = .10
Eye Liner $20/ 200 = .10
Mascara $25/100 = .25
Foundation $25/50 = .50
Powder $20/ 200 = .10
Blush = $25/250 = .10
Lipstick = $20/100 = .20
Lipgloss = $15/150 = .10
Total $1.45
so maybe you can just bill the guy for the difference of .70 cents.....and call it even...then you can help the guy pay for the flight, car, gas, etc....and of course as a gentleman he'll be happy to pay for the date itself....
I am a single guy, who's still trying to find his gal. Unfortunately, she still hasn't made herself known. I do now however know how to find her. I will write an article on COLLIVE.
Btw, the article will be titled, "Getting the girl to pay for the drinks, can it be done?"
P.S. I've never done it before, but I'd love to do it to #111, I'm pretty sure that it will be a show of Shock and Awe (and than a slap on the face - she'll be wearing a glove of course)!
no one can set you up with someone you don't want to go out with
poor "checking out" is your own fault and there is no such thing as someone else's responsibility or fault
take responsibility for your own decisions
find out what you want to know and make sure you are in agreement with the answers and they are clear
don't go out with everyone just to do it - it isn't the way to do things
don't accept half answers and be sure that this is the one
just remember this person could be the next member of your family
how would you like them to feel welcomed
ps there is such a thing that is done that's called mentchlichkite - share in the expense
after the boy flies in let him use the family car and the family rents a car for the dating perhaps
most after expenses are 50/50 so after you get through the initial start so should the rest
i had a standing agreement with shadchanim - for my sons or daughters- the boys pay the initial flying and then we split it after that
this worked for all my children, bli ayin hora, and the mechutim too
good luck to you all and remember:
this is not for dating this is for getting married
change your mind set on that it may help you
I also wanted to add, that while i'm sure it's definately annoying for a guy to have to fly over to see the girl & spend all that comes with it, if things go well, the girl will generally make the next trip up... i've done it myself.
And guys should just know that the girl always appreciates every dollar spent on her! :)
don't get me wrong the giy has a point
not everyone has a dollar tree in his back yard
ur not the only one
me being a girl, i shall stick up for us womens rights!
girls (unlike boys) ask for just water-free.
girls, (unlike boys) pay a lot of money on their dresses, blouses, shirts, skirts, its not cheap being a girl!
girls, (unlike boys) are worth the money
girls, (unlike boys) would GLADLY pay their share of money if the boy would only speak up-the boys think that if they speak up 'oh no it wont be a shidduch anymore' which is true, but if ur rlly looking 4 the right 1, ull get her by being urself! dont go to a date and be oh so "perfect"!
BE URSELF!
and all those boys out there just dont REALIZE!!
and then they go home crying that they will never find the right shidduch bla bla bla bla bla...
the girl whom you are looking for will not care!
and yea im yaddaing but its true and i dont care!
and just 2 prove my point, yadda yadda yadda
Thanks for a good laugh. And I think I'll skip the slap. Not ladylike ya know.
so ya, u can't compare..;)
Make sure not to date too many times. This is not a dating game. THIS IS THE REAL THING: TO BUILD A HOME LESHAIM SHOMAYIM!!!!!
67 lolololololololol
P.S. If I haven't turned you off yet, my Shadchan is ...
P.S.S. To number 111, I'm also from out of town, but currently living in NY. When you finish dating the author, give me a call.
Yours Truly,
#139
Why do you write that "you resisted moving to CH". Like it is something bad or wrong. The Rebbe's message is clear " KAN TZIVAH HASHEM ES HABRACHA"
I have to disagree and say it's well worth the investment!
A single out of town Bachur
and the best dates r day dates, cuz u have a clearer mind, u can think more clearly.
but, i do think the boy should provide decent car, drinks... but just not to overdo, cuz it makes u not think straight.
- Flight
- Taking off work
- basic car (not everyone has one they can borrow and you just don't take a first date on the subway)
B) sometimes you can't just take a stroll (like in the winter or in the rain)
I dont know whats in your mind but it seems from the article that you find the mitzvah of finding a wife more like shopping for the perfect car or house.
kavod bnos yisroel is EXTREEMLY important, while you seem to be worrying about money the girl you spent $700 on dosnt appreciate the money. she is probebly eating herself up wondering what went on in the date and why she isn't good enough.
It's irrelevent how many girls youve dated as long as you can number each one as a sensitive jewish neshoma, "plenty" is definetly too many!!!
solution: do less dating. do more reasearch and more thinking. don't date a girl if it sounds good, date if you just need to clarify the last few points. This will save you money but more importantly it will save the kedusah, dignity and self esteem of precious bnos yisroel.
let the boy who's anyway not planning on traveling for a date finally agree to pay for half the ticket.
mr x agreed. i flew in. we met 4 times. we both knew that was the end, we really liked each other but were never gonna marry each other. the shadchan was contacted to get the money from the boy. he couldn't get a single $ out of the boys pocket. the boy just made up that i had flown in for a few other boys and not just for him, because he had heard i was still in town. it took 3 months until he paid up. yuck. he's in his forties now (he was older than he had said before we dated) and still single. he's graying at his temples. i feel like screaming @ him for being such an %^%&!!!
G'luck finding all your other halfs:)
1)Ok. You dont have to go around looking like a shlump with a 20.00 targer shirt, For gosh sakes! buy an outfit thats 36.00!!!
2) Why should you spend 90.00 on thoes just for a date! Wear your old ones. (In fact most girls have at least one pair of shoes to match every outfit).
3) Common! You cant get makeup every time you go on a date. Say you go on 8 dates, thats a lot of money!!
This is life.
Women have responsibilities as do men.
Do you see women screaming how it’s not fair they have to deal with the pain of childbirth and taking care of their children?! Do you see men wailing how they hate going to work in the morning?!
Life is not about equality. For every gender life is just different.
The way of the world is that the boy courts the girl.
Please stop trying to disturb nature's equilibrium.
I am sorry for the author that he has to waste so much money trying to find a wife.
One question for the author- if the next girl you were going out with was THE ONE would you want her to pay half your ticket??
Btw, it sounds like you need some help at home so that you can have more time to think before you write. Since you think it is normal for a guy to spend that much, my guess is that your husband is rich and can therefore afford such help.
But the idea here is to get married, not to be RIGHT.
So must guys are looking for NORMAL DOWN TO EARTH GIRLS and mother in laws.
So if the girl and her family act like mentchin and say, "hey we get it, and we would like to pay for half the ticket"
Right or wrong it shows really really well on your side and you started to be attractive even before getting in the car, or putting on all that make up.
So many people don't act like mentchin, like taking 2 days to get back with "no" after a date, or just run their mouths off about every little details that was not perfect about the date.
Judaism does apply to dating, too!
The other was referring to the "meeting" process with is part of the Shidduch system which compensates for (what you might consider the "natural" way of the world but others do not) the fact that guys and girls do not meat under day to day life experiences.
Since both parties have an equal interest in seeing if there is potential they should both have equal financial input to make that happen. Once it becomes a courtship and the guy want's to show the girl how he feels he would feel more than happy to take her out to some nice places.
whoever suggested 1 ad 2 to get married, they both are female.