ב"ה
Wednesday, 26 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 6, 2024

Metzizah B’Peh: Ethic Or Barbaric?

A young father to twin boys contemplates the concept of a bris in general and its controversial aspects such as metzitzah b'peh. Full Story

Fruity Cream Cake for Shavuos

Next Story »

Holiness Is More Than You Think

Subscribe
Notify of
24 Comments
oldest
newest most voted
Inline Feedbacks
View all comments
funny
April 29, 2018 1:37 am

” in order to be able to talk intelligently with those who don’t take our Rabbeim’s words at face value.”

-um, im pretty sure most frum jews dont argue against bris so not sure why we need to share our wisdom. Besides the rest of the Yidden have Rabbis too so im sure they know halachos and have correct hashkafos without us.

Well written.
April 27, 2018 5:23 pm

Tomorrow afternoon there will be a bris being done by one of the most experienced around. Your more then wrlcome to stop by & have a chat with him on this subject.
YP

To #19
April 27, 2018 5:02 pm

Yes, it’s 3 times more likely. But that still doesn’t help you make an informed decision, as what does that really mean? Using your example, let’s say the likelihood of something bad happening after you do ‘x’ is 0.001% but if you do ‘y’ then it’s 0.003%. If you just tell someone that doing ‘y’ is 3 times more likely to cause harm then if you do ‘x’, that might scare the person based on the increase in likelihood. But that is not an informed decision. If they were to know that EVEN with the additional 3 times likelihood, it’s… Read more »

intention
April 27, 2018 9:25 am

Skipping most of the article and comments, I have only one thing to say. This issue is over 20 years old, and when I was in the Macrobiotics world, this was a common thing. If you want your kids to marry Jewish or bring into the world Jewish grandchildren, NOW is the time to be aware that if you break the chain in this way, those hopes are forever gone. An uncircumcised boy cannot even be part of a minyon. You will be cut off forever from Judaism because of not accepting a primary spiritual custom. It has tremendous implications… Read more »

To #10
April 27, 2018 2:49 am

If you look at the root source material of that incident it is still not proven that it had anything to do with MBP. Furthermore, after many years the mother finally said that she was threatened if she would provide any details, because those details would undermine the publicity stunt asserting that it was because of MBP

to #17
April 27, 2018 12:53 am

I disagree. When making a real-world decision which course of action to take, the LIKELIHOOD of the result is the relevant measure. So from my original example, if action x has a 2% risk of an undesirable result, and action y has a 5% risk of an undesirable result, the person making the choice has to understand that action y is two and a half times more risky than action x. He or she may still choose action y, but the choice needs to be made with open eyes.

to #11
April 26, 2018 3:25 pm

MBP is practiced a few thousand years. was never confirmed that MBP had caused harm.

Math @ #13
April 26, 2018 3:02 pm

There are two ways to display the math and both are correct.

But to says something is “3 times more likely” is a red herring. If the original number is minuscule, then 3 times that number is still minuscule.

So the correct way to view it would be to see what is the real world increase in likelihood of one scenario over the other. That is best viewed by the difference in percentage amounts.

to #11
April 26, 2018 2:35 pm

What you are referring to is to do with the fact that the metzius is that the viability of a baby born at 8 months is different than it was back then, due to medical advancement. Just like all kinds of diseases were pretty much a death sentence before treatments were discovered.

It doesn’t mean that the halacha is wrong or changed, but its application has.

A father's true gift of Love -Chabad Doctor's opinion
April 26, 2018 2:09 pm

I don’t understand. We love our children enough to do anything for them to be healthy! Fathers do the Metzitza yourself.Why share any possibility of infection with everyone else? Mohels can be exposed. If you care about the child do what you should and perform the MBP without the Mohel! Your mature and responsible enough to be a father then act like one!

to #11
April 26, 2018 7:45 am

If a baby has hsv and had a bris it is automatically blamed on the bris without any further checking to see if it was from somewhere else.

a mathematical point
April 26, 2018 4:35 am

I wish to comment only on the mathematical point asserted. It was stated that the risk of contracting neonatal HSV from MBP is 1 in 4098 (or a likelihood of 0.0244%), versus the likelihood of contracting neonatal HSV when there is no MBP, which is 0.0072%. The author then states that doing MBP represents an increased risk of only 0.0172%. The conclusion is faulty — the risk is 3.39 times greater. The correct calculation is to divide the MBP risk by the non-MBP risk. Let’s illustrate this with a simpler example: Suppose the risk of activity x is 2%, and… Read more »

To #10
April 25, 2018 11:24 pm

The link is in the article (the bold letters of “0.0072%” is actually a hyperlink to: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5076714/

Lo Zu Haderech
April 25, 2018 11:20 pm

The Mishna, Talmud, Rambam, Tur, Shulchan Aruch, and Alter Rebbe, all rule that a fetus born at 8 months is considered muktzah, as it will surely die within 30 days of birth, and therefore CANNOT be moved on the shabbos. I have yet to hear even one person claim that we should continue to follow this halacha. The reason for this is all too obvious. In ancient times there was a belief that a fetus born at 7 months will survive, but a fetus born at 8 months will not. Today, with modern technology, it is simply not true any… Read more »

Sources?
April 25, 2018 11:02 pm

You quote the percent risk of transmission of HSV, where is this being quoted from? Why is there no mention of the infants who got meningitis (HSV) after brissim in NJ? I know it was 20 years ago or so, but it did happen?

מזל טוב
April 25, 2018 10:46 pm

well written Yasher Koach!
מזל טוב, תזכו להכניסם בבריתו של אאע”ה ולגדלם לתורה לחופה ולמעש”ט מתוך הרחבה לאויוש”ט

To #3
April 25, 2018 10:44 pm

With all due respect, (it’s a public anonymous forum after all), how are we different than Muslims? Really?? Because we follow a Torah that is true. וכל נתיבותיה שלום. If that’s “fundamentalist” then so be it. Doesn’t change truth. Want to be politically correct? Fine. But our actions must be in line with what is right; not what is acceptable. The Muslims aren’t wrong simply because they kill people. They’re wrong because G-d told us explicitly not to. Morality is objective because it has an objective source; as oppose to a individual “truth teller”.

To #3
April 25, 2018 10:18 pm

It’s different because our nation stood at Mount Sinai, a couple of million strong, and heard G-d give us the Torah, one of whose commandments is to circumcise our males. The Muslims did not receive such a national command; to the extent that they have any such obligation, it’s because some of them are descendants of Abraham. So no, our Divinely revealed Torah needs no “reform,” and if it resembles practices of other religions, that’s not our problem.

@sruli
April 25, 2018 10:03 pm

I (and i’m sure many others ) have really enjoyed your contributions over the years. You have a real knack for explaining sticky topics in an informed , well-explained , and well written form . Amazingly you also manaage to convey it in an unassuming way. (To me personally at least ) it doesn’t seem like your coming across like an authority telling me what to do, rather like a good friend who wants to explore the subject with me. Like your father , when you explain Torah it sounds stimulating and thoughtful, not dogmatic and outdated. Col articles are… Read more »

Torah is called Toras Chaim for a reason!
April 25, 2018 9:23 pm

You know what? Maybe Shabbos is also outdated, and yet we keep it anyway for the very fact that the Torah tells us too! The same is with any other Mitzvah, Torah is not a history book, it is a living and eternal guide for our lives, even today. Great article!

WOW!!
April 25, 2018 9:08 pm

thanks for clarifying

It's GM!!
April 25, 2018 8:37 pm

Why is this any different than what the muslims do!! I’m sorry some old barbaric customs and ways need reform. Think the word ‘FUNDAMENTALIST’

magnificent
April 25, 2018 8:34 pm

well written, very very well thought out…a tremendous kidush Hashem.. Yelichu mchayol el chayol. May you merit to bring your sons (may they live and be well) to Bris milah, in a good and speedy time. Mazel and Bracha.

Wow
April 25, 2018 8:10 pm

I can’t thank you enough for this article. Not because I had any doubts but because it makes me so proud to be a chosid which the rebbe infused a love for all mitzvos without compromise. And this article proves that we should not sway even an iota from tradition

X