By Rivkah
I sit here with a ball in the pit of my stomach because of two things that happened this past week.
The first occurred at a simcha when my friend showed me a beautiful picture of her new grandson. “Oh, I didn’t know your daughter got married. When was the wedding?” Her quick whispered reply as she hastily hid the picture as if she had snuck in contraband was, “She didn’t, she was married by the justice of the people. The father isn’t Jewish…”
The second was when I got another summer camp rejection. Gone are the days when my only problem with getting kids accepted was coming up with the absolute fortune the camp wanted.
Gone were the days when everyone praised my child’s beautiful tznius and chassidishkeit. As soon as that child’s sister started to rebel; my family was tainted. I can scream to the world that she is a good girl, but her dress and choice of music says different.
Now, even baal tshuvah camps won’t accept her. Their mission is to bring kids to Yiddishkeit and you can’t mix kids going up with kids going down, they say. Then why do we do kiruv in the first place? Why don’t our incredibly intelligent husbands line the benches of a Kollel – because the Rebbe says that “the house is on fire.”
In many of the finest houses of Crown Heights, there is one child who is rebelling. The house is on fire folks. If the boys marry out, their kids are lost to the Jewish community forever. And everyone knows the statistics of babies – like my friend’s grandson actually becoming a Baal tshuvah. The numbers are not high people.
So what do we do?
If we would organize kiruv type programs for kids who are rebelling maybe we could save the next generation. The Rebbe always supported overnight camps and their ability to effect change for the better. We need to make sure that there is a camp spot for every single Jewish child who wants one – especially children who were born frum.
We have to stop saying this is someone else’s problem. The house is burning, people. Do you sit back? Or do you grab a hose and help?
I definitely agree that there are some problems in camps. There are some camps that are outstanding in their care and responsibility toward the children and there also need to be more options. No Jewish child especially (I say especially because unfortunately some people only think about people who were born not frum and forgot about their own) of our own who goes to a Jewish school should end up with nothing to do in the summer when they are capable individuals. I would be happy if new programs start up from truly caring, and dedicated individuals and I would… Read more »
When I attended Bais Rivkah Elementary in the 1970’s on Church Avenue there were at least 6 Non-Frum girls who were part of our Class. I don’t remember any parent raising a ruckus about having Non-Frum girls part of our class.
We all blended in beautifully and got along great. It was actually the beginning of us being involved in inspiring the girls about a Frum way of life. I look at my classmates today who all have Yiddishe Chassidishe Homes and we were not affected by the Non-Frum girls being part of our class.
If your daughter is entering 6, 7 or 8th grade, try http://www.camp chaya.com It is a new camp in the Laurel Highlands. The director is Chana Friedman from Pittsburgh and they will have a registered nurse on staff and present at camp all day and night.
The ratio has to be right. I went to a sem in Israel where 8/12 girls were struggling with their yiddishkeit and yes the girls struggling negatively affected the rest of the girls. There needs to be programs for these girls and boys who are struggling instead of ousting them.
a place where many kids came from not frum families. now there are enough frum kids to fill up camps easily. but there is likely still place for camps with both, especially if the children in question are from frum families… as far as those children dragging the others down, im sure there’s a way to encourage the opposite direction, them being raised up…
and about to cry its just plain sad that majority of these comments don’t have sensitivity to others
Not like new square plus saying chitas.
My daughter was rejected because she has to take a medicine for her heart every day.
Camp CGI Parksville is a great camp. But they will definitely reject this child. She’s a girl and last I checked, CGI is a boys camp🚻
Agree with you, but 5k per kid? Which school do you go to? Here in Sydney it’s 20k per kid!
Your comment is not accurate and quite frankly, sounds fear-based. Some have in fact started new, smaller (and much higher quality) institutions with waiting lists to get in. I’m sure more are preparing to do the same.
I’ve worked in CGI Montreal for a few years and i personally know many children that get accepted regardless if their parents have money or not Before jumping to conclusions and saying that it’s all about the money consider that it may be that your son did not act in accordance with the camp rules and maybe even yidishkeit or he may have been rejected for some other reason. I have no idea who you are or who you’re son is just saying that the camp could only hold a certain amount of children so at the end of the… Read more »
You can blame the schools and the camps – or you can take responsibility.
If your children can’t deal with off the derech children, ask yourself, how strong is their emunah in hashem?
MY KID WAS REJECTED from PArksville last year and I had to send him to another camp !!! Thats after him going there 3 summers before and me paying full boat! PROBLEM: The so-csalled “people” who run these camps are individual profit centers cloaking as a “not-for-profit,” 501 (c)3’s organizations raising money off rich., rich, rich ( like Steven Ross) in Manhattan and the MET Council then having the gall— THE GALL to charge a summer camp fee! Lubavitch is a Kehilla–and the other Chassidim; Satmar, Belz, bobov, Vienne, etc. are true kehillas because their teachers from Yeshiva work in… Read more »
Why calling it Kiruv and not Shlichos?!
The worst part of all of this is that the campwants to be an extension of school ,giving awards etc to those who excel in their studies , let camp be fun for everyone stop the testing etc give all the children the opportunity to shine and be recognized
thank you #51. whether one agrees with everything the writer says is irrelevant. The attitudes expressed are painful,some inexcusable. By the way, Parksville is for boys and the writer seems to be talking about a girl. A thought… although there is much to be gained from going to camp if possible, maybe it really is time to shorten the summer vacation, and create some alternatives to sleep away camp,which is so prohibitive for so many families. i am a teacher, the time off is nice, but maybe we should copy the European model of,say, six weeks off in the summer.… Read more »
How on earth can we all as Yidden, whether FFB, BT, or whichever “LABEL” we fall under, expect MOSHIACH to come in our generation, when such disgraceful & judgmental comments by fellow Yidden are made to a mother crying out for “help”???
This behavior is sooo “not nice” & “insensitive”!!!
I’m truly sooo “disappointed” at your attitudes & comments.
Where’s all your “community achdus” & “Love Your Fellow Jew”???
GUT SHABBOS
Dear op i totally understand what you are saying. Somthing just doesnt add up. We bring up our children to go out into the world our money goes to help fund all these organizations but then there isnt room for our children in camps or if we cant afford tuition its our problem and then at the end of the day there are kids who went through the system with their parents giving it their all and rl are intermarrying. Its heartbreaking i can go on and on… i wish i knew a solution
How on earth can we all as Yidden, whether FFB, BT, or whichever “LABEL” we fall under, expect MOSHIACH to come in our generation, when such disgraceful & judgmental comments by fellow Yidden are made to a mother crying out for “help”???
This behavior is sooo “not nice” & “insensitive”!!!
I’m truly sooo “disappointed” at your attitudes & comments.
Where’s all your “community achdus” & “Love Your Fellow Jew”???
GUT SHABBOS
there’s a lot of questions that need to be answered, I’m sorry for all your pain. If Hashem gives me the ability I hope I will do everything in my power and Beyoned to add to a better society.
A recent trend has been that people are complaining about the way that seminaries, camps, yeshivos and schools are running. These are privately owned by people who can charge what they want, offer what they want, and accept who they want, because they are high in demand. The solution is more camps, sems, and schools, yet no one has the funds or the gall to open them, and even the few that are opening to due some incredible people aren’t always surviving because – be honest – no one wants to be a guinea pig. It’s just the same as… Read more »
..everyone please stop this ‘gehze’ business. This is not 1955! You never heard of yichus atzmi? Re camps: We are Chabad for goodness sake and we are rejecting kids because we don’t like their dress or music??? Shame on us!! Sure they cannot dress that way or listen to that music WHILE IN CAMP..you can enforce that or send them home…but let them IN…with caveats that if they are caught in improper activity they WILL be sent home!! Give every girl a chance and assign mentors to help them. Every comment acknowledged that there is ONE IN EVERY FAMILY going… Read more »
I went to these camps. They Probably did you a favor by rejecting your kid. firstly, they have no business having 16 year old kids taking care of kids. It should not be legal. I went to camp and was mistreated by my counselor. My whole summer was nothing but anxiety. I was constantly afraid of getting punished for who knows what. This was a well known Chabad camp. Horrible place.
Not a single point here needed to be made with acrimony. Think before you type that your sister or brother is on the other end of the article reading all the comments and going through a tough one and make your point gently. Me, meh, I’m not even in the parsha, I can barely afford my 5K per kid per school, and except for two times where I received a gift of one month of camp for 2 of my children, overnight camp is man dochor shmei. It’s attending and working in the local daycamps for my family. It isn’t… Read more »
The summer in camp is pointless, besides being a HUGE waste of money, is actually quite destructive. You are not taught independance. You are taught group think. You do not cook for yourself or care for yourself. You are on a all-expenses disney land like experience, courtesy your parents. From my experience, the girls come back less relatable, more selfish, more self-centered, in gashmius and in ruchnius. Even the ruchnius there is ridiculous, cause its not at all practical. They simply become self-absorbed. Not to mention, that they are shipped all over the country for their “grand trips” and G-d… Read more »
my child was the only one of their friends that wasn’t accepted to the camp they went to for several years before. This child was very hurt but moved on, swallowed it and learned to deal with disappointment. The child was not even angry at the directors and was forgiving and applied and was accepted to the camp the following year. Being bitter and blaming the world won’t get you anywhere. Yes, we do need more camps and schools because they are all filled to capacity and Chabad is constantly growing and there’s always a stress of getting accepted to… Read more »
And frustration. Have you tried other camps? Even if non lubavitch? And yes almost every family I know has at least one child off the derech . Though there is hope…. And i know people say in the past it wasn’t such an issue but then again In the past generations not many children survived to begin with.
I too have son who is testing the waters. He is now 28yrs, and whilst i don’t know any camp that can bring him back. I am hoping a yiddishe girl can.
Keep davening, Hashem will open the door.
As someone who is friends with a camp director- it’s not about which family – there is no room. Only a certain amount of space.
Now this is why parksville is the rebbes camp when rabbi futerfas acepts he takes it as it the rebbes camp and who am I to reject someone!!
Rabbi futerfas you are truly a inspiration to us
Go parksville go!!
many moons ago my son was going for a camp in Italy, he was rejected, why i asked? no answer, did you talk to his teacher? No did you talk to his principle? No did you speak to his friends? No. at least give me a reason no anser (you got to understand I did not have issues with any of my kids and that particular kid B”H was/is an incredible kid, people stopped me K”H on the street to tell my my kid did this for them or that for them) sure i was angry but I found another… Read more »
Virtually every family has “modern” or non-frum children/grandchildren.
The rest is a confusing rant.
http://www.tzeireihashluchim.com
I was born in crown heights and lived there till 1967. Those days were mostly holocaust survivors and the new generation of children. When I go to eat out in crown heights I see the streets with many young people and quite a few younger girls dressing not too tznius. I understand this problem is all over including flatbush, five towns etc. we must inspire our youth. The internet social media is killing them. You need mentors. Each teen needs a mentor. We must wake up. The house is not on fire. The world is on fire.
Im a staff member in a camp and kids are coming here since they are rejected from parksville. So before you start making statements make sure they are still true nowadays.
Today was not a good day in Israel , let’s keep all of This dirty laundry more private , many people feel resented etc. This doesn’t help to unite , but is to divide Call a Rav , Mashpia to speak on your behalf , I find strange someone discriminating against any Jew , I feel sympathetic and don’t try to deny feelings but is this the vehicle to promote change or change is something more personal , we are on a refinement period with Sefiros and let’s keep in mind why we are not listening music now etc. Let’s… Read more »
We have nobody In Lubavitch who specializes in OTD kids?
I’m literally in shock.
The most heimish, close-knit and fun camp !!
I know he’s not Lubavitch, but Zecharya Wallerstein is known to be amazing at helping kids off the derech!
Stupid argument, PARKSVILLE FOR LIFE
I don’t find people looking to send their kids to schools/camps that are good for the child but rather ones that ate considered lubavitch top class. Which the kids come back worse in judaism. But since you want to fit in it’s ok. Send them to true top class the ones you believe are following the rebbes way.
your daughter has a sister who isn’t frum. so, unfortunately, do many other kids today. look around you.objectively. the frum siblings aren’t getting rejected because they have a non-frum sibling. one of your other statements is more likely responsible for the rejection: she is listening to music and wearing clothing that isn’t acceptable to the hanhalah of camp you applied to. it’s sad that even the frum kid has this weakness, but the camp does have the right to keep other campers from being exposed to this on a daily basis and in social settings. if she were accepted and… Read more »
My son has been having trouble in other big camps and I was told about a really amazing camp in California called Gan Yisroel West and he he been going back ever since, a camp that will accept you children no matter what family you come from
camps are limited in space. they can only accept a certain amount of kids. so how can everyone be accepted? i dont think money, name, gezeh have to do with camp. Are you the same person who in every conversation brings up your chip on the shoulder that you are not ffb or gezeh or have a decent income? get over it and you will be a lot happier
Allot of teenagers go off the derech because of angry feelings and pressure is the most absurd comment Kids go off the derech because of trauma your facts are completely incorrect
BT here. I left Neve Yerushalayim for this exact reason. Mostly FFBs in my particular group and they were cynical, asking very annoying questions. I felt I was way ahead of them and they were holding back my growth. You are so right and I’m glad you said that.
https://jewishuncamp.org
Let one of the crown heights philanthropist bank roll a camp for these kinds of kids you will have many well qualified candidates to run it
Money ! Money Money !
when i was growing up i never heard of such a concept as rejecting kids when my father grew up the attitude amongst chassidim was every child that we get into a chabad moised was a neshama to chase after right now i work with children in seventh and eighth grade and i’ve heard of way too many children who got rejected from camps the solution would be to build new bunk houses to accomodate more children (sponsorship depending) you dont write the age of your daughter however i can imagine that shes over 13 if shes rebelling. it makes… Read more »
Is everyone starting to write on Collive every problem that exists that everyone is well aware of? Nobody is helping anything.
1/there isn’t a camp for struggling children and needs to be one 2/each child and family should be judged on their own merits 3/i know the family and both children are gezhe so that argument does not work 4/I was in Machon alte myself and I learned a lot from the struggles of the ffb girls who would probably not be frum today if Rabbi Rosenfeld wasn’t the tzaddik that he is 5/I agree that camp acceptance is hard but alot of money is spent on kiruv camps but helping our own is part of the words of the Rebbe… Read more »
Cannot be more we’ll said. Would you want your child in camp with a child who had a contagious disease, say tuberculosis? How much more so a spiritual malady… not me.
my son went last year..this year surprisingly not accepted??? welcome to lubavitch…its all about the money and what??
We also have to be into consideration the child’s feelings. If a off the derech teenager doesnt get accepted to a camp because of their rebel, they could think ”If this is what happens when i wear an above the knee skirt, i dont want to be frum. ”
Alot of teenagers go off the derech because of angry feelings and pressure.
This problem is solvable and we should solve it immediately by embracing off the derech teenagers and show them that they’re wanted even if they chose to go another way.
You say her dress and choice of music is also not appropriate. I don’t care how good of a girl she is, if she doesn’t follow the rules I wouldn’t want her to be in camp with my daughter! When I send my child to camp I don’t want them to have to deal with others who are struggling. We all want our children to be exposed to good examples. I also feel if it’s her clothing and choose of music that’s a problem she’s probably struggling in other ways as well. I do think there should be a camp… Read more »
I am friends with a very fine lady who runs an overnight camp and what she has to go through….
Those who are unhappy with the camp system, I understand, but you have to also think about the directors. It’s a lot harder for them to deal with the whole accepting and rejecting situation.
Thank You
to #6: the Rebbe is very much here and with us!! our job is to actually learn the Horaos and live up to them! To the rest of the article: this is ridiculous. after reading the entire article, i have not understood one complaint of yours. at least if youre writing an article, please think clearly about how you want to express it before just writing whatever comes to mind and sending it out to COL. And in response: just grow up. why does every single complaint a person has have to be posted on COL and become a whole… Read more »
This child was rejected NOT because of any issues in this child herself, but because of HER SISTER having issues!
What kind of mishugas is THIS????? I thought Lubavitch was ABOVE this kind of thing!
This is not only SAD and IGNORANT, but it is also SCARY!!!!!! Who appointed these camp directors as judge, jury, and “executioner” of an innocent SIBLING????
I am appalled, and I am crying for this poor, rejected child who HERSELF did nothing to deserve this!
The reality is, if your child does not fit in to the camp due to her behavior and choices, my child shouldn’t be exposed / subjected to her. May not be popular to say, but it’s the truth. I commend the camp for standing up and doing what’s right.
Probably not even the 100th that this happens to. What’s collives new obsession with pointing out the obvious? Everyones kids get rejected by camps and yeshivas. Only the gezher, rich and connected get in these days. This is not Lubavitch. This is not the Rebbes approach.
we are all jews- why not accept everyone? there should be zero discrimination against the people off the Derech. Every jew has a pintele yid inside of them so why do the directors care if they are not showing it at that very second??
We should make a camp where everyone is accepted- chassidish and non. That will surely be amazing!!
what does the beginning have to do with the rest of this?
i don’t understand the point of this article…. do you think that camps can have 100s of girls sleeping on floors, not having enough food, no space for everyone? it simply doesn’t make sense… don’t take it personally- that’s just the way life goes.
We need more high schools for girls as well
We need more camps. Instead of complaining lets as a community address the issue. There are talented business men and grant writers etc. The problem is solvable.
why to cry ? we will do something in the city …. yes its not so fancy shmency … but if i dont have money for tuition why to even apply to the luxury summer vacation for my kids ? stop crying and do the best for your kids if u have funds go to the family vacation
CGI Parksville never rejects anybody
Last I checked Camps are private enterprises and as such, they reserve the right to choose who to reject/admit.
It’s very good that you are voicing your situation as it notifies potential camp creators to create camps that will accept chasidiseh children such as yours.
God bless you and all your loved ones.
L’chaim.
I hate to agree with the camp but they were right. When I was in seminary a Machon Alte, we were 12 girls, and 8 of them were girls from frum families that were struggling with their yiddishkeit. To say they had an effect on the remaining girls that were BT’s is an understatement. When you have girls from frum families setting the wrong example it just doesn’t mix with girls trying to learn to be Frum. I do agree however that we need more in reach. All these articles in the last few days are proof that Chabad needs… Read more »
Yes! The house is on fire! There is someone who is working soooooo hard to help put out the fire.
His name is Avi Fishoff.
17189026666
If you have a child who is no longer frum, call him up. He has helped many lubavitcher families, and has endorsements from so many rabonim: lubavitch, bobov, satmar, belz, gerrer, litvack, young israel, etc.
Not sure what your problem is but camp is definitely not the problem here. Start with the judgemental attitude that is pervasive in the neighborhood & then you can go off at the schools that push being chassidism over common decency. But Camps are not at fault for rebelious kids
Too many issues. Stick to the camp issue and let everyone else live their lives they see fit.
Not to sound pessimistic or anything but how is anyone supposed to help. I’m 27 and a male with no funds to speak of.
I’m happy to hear ideas if you have any.
Stop taking things personally when your kids don’t get accepted. There are so many more kids now and less camps so what are camps supposed to do? Accept everyone and have kids sleeping on floors??
I know it’s hard. I too was rejected. I’m just trying to make sense of it all