By Sruli Schochet – Los Angeles
Recently, at a farbrengan in 770, Rabbi Yosef Braun spoke some strong words about the perils of attending college and strongly dissuaded anyone from considering such a path. An excerpt of the talk was recorded and the video went viral. This triggered a myriad of debate on COLlive.com and social media.
While some took umbrage to the strong language used by Rabbi Braun, others pondered the merits of his message. Was the Rebbe really against going to college? What about ‘nishtanu ha’itim’ – times have changed – and perhaps the Rebbe would be more lenient in light of today’s uber-competitive job market?
It is well known that for many years there were only a handful of Chabad chassidim with post-graduate or doctorate degrees. I am not referring to those that got their degrees and then later became observant. Rather, I am referring to those that grew up religious and made their way through the yeshiva system, only later to go on to get their degrees. As it happens, my father, Rabbi Dr. J. Immanuel Schochet a”h, was one such person. While many know that he attended college, few people know the background story. I would like to share that here and perhaps shed some light on the matter.
After completing high school in Lubavitch Yeshiva, my father grew a little frustrated and disillusioned with the system (sound familiar?) and wanted to get on with his life, so to speak. At the end of the school year, he planned to go to college. However, at a farbrengan for the 12 Tamuz, the Rebbe spoke strongly about not going to college.
Thereafter my father wrote to the Rebbe that he has plans to go to college and if he does go, he hopes the Rebbe won’t be upset with him (have a ‘kepaidah’ as he put it). The Rebbe responded that “Chas v’sholom for me to have a kepaidah against someone, I am just doing my obligation of trying to help when you see someone going on a path that is not good for them.”
Then on the 20th of Av, the Rebbe spoke an even more forceful sicha against going to college. Upon hearing this sicha, my father felt that with all the special attention he received from the Rebbe over the years, that it would be a public ‘slap in the face’, so to speak, if he so openly defied something the Rebbe was so passionate about.
My father decided to lay low, not talk about it during the upcoming school year and then after the following summer break, he will just quietly go off to college. He told no one about his plans, not even his parents.
Towards the end of the following year, at a Shavuos farbrengan, the Rebbe launched into a sicha about how people go on summer vacation and they think it’s a vacation from spirituality as well. However, they need to stay connected with davening with a minyan and learning their shiurim, as there is no vacation from Judaism.
At the end of the sicha, the Rebbe turned to my father with a big smile and said: “Immanuel, I know that you also have some thoughts how to ‘fix’ things after Labor Day. Forget about it and make l’chaim.”
My father was perplexed as to what the Rebbe was referring. Then the Rebbe said again with a smile: “It’s not going to happen anyway, so make l’chaim.”
At that point, the penny dropped, and my father just burst out laughing. Realizing that the gig was up, he once again did not attend college in the coming year and returned to yeshiva.
It was not until many years later, when he was engaged to my mother, that he attended Teacher’s college in order to get certified as a teacher. Later on, he decided to continue his degree, until eventually attaining his doctorate degree just a few months shy of his 39th birthday.
I think there is no question where the Rebbe stood with regard to people attending college, certainly in their single years. If someone wants to come along and change that status quo, the onus of proof is on them. While anecdotally there may be some specific instances where they Rebbe told or even encouraged someone to attend university, they were by far the exception to the norm. Those are individual directives, from which no inferences can be made, versus the very public statements the Rebbe made on the subject.
There seems to be two main points of contention that people keep raising:
1) What is this whole concern about going to college and this extra emphasis against going to any form of college before a person is married?
2) If I don’t plan on going on shlichus once I am married, what can I do now to prepare myself for the business world at large? Should I just get married and only then be left scrambling for a job?
THE SINGLE’S CHALLENGE
As to issue number one, far be it from me to hypothesize on why the Rebbe felt so strongly on the matter. But I do want to highlight a reality I have seen with my very eyes, that can certainly shed some light on the subject.
Over the last 20 years in business, I have been fortunate to have worked with religious people, both single and married. As a result, I had a front-row seat, as these various people went through their life trajectory. Sadly, the vast majority of the time, the longer the single person stayed single, the further they drifted from yiddishkeit. While the married person went on to have kids and continued steadfast in their ways, the single people struggled with their religion.
Several years ago, I got an enlightening insight as to why. My wife had a conversation with a single friend of hers, discussing her friend’s life choices and the path it had taken. Her friend went from doing chitas and Rambam every day in seminary, to wearing pants and not keeping shabbos. How could that be? What traumatic event occurred that made her alter her life course so dramatically? What her friend shared with her was both informative and heartbreaking.
During the week, everyone is caught up with work. But when there is no work, and especially on weekends, while the married person has their spouse or children to keep them grounded and occupied, the single friend is quite lonely. Furthermore, their circle of friends begins to drift towards other single people, often non-observant or not Jewish, who generally tend to be single at that age as well. With the need of wanting to fit in, over time they start to dress different, speak differently and eventually make compromise after compromise. Before they know it, they are no longer anywhere near the religious observance level they used to once proudly tout.
This is not a modern-day problem, but one that goes back since the beginning of time. The Talmud, when discussing how it is possible for the Yetzer Hara to get someone to serve idols, says: Today he tells you to do this, tomorrow he tells you to do that; and then before you know it, you are serving idols! (Shabbos 105b).
Of course one cannot make a generalization about all single people and all married people. However, there is no doubt in my mind, having seen this happen over and over again with my own eyes, that single people are more vulnerable to this. Therein lies the additional danger for an unmarried person, lacking the strong foundation of a spouse or children to anchor them, that college can potentially expose them to.
Of course, every rule has its exception, and any person, single or married, should consult with his or her mashpia before considering college. The Rebbe encouraged us to consult with our mashpia before any major life decision and this certainly falls under that category.
PREPARING FOR THE BUSINESS WORLD
As for those young people who worry that without a college degree they won’t find a good job, I have this piece of advice to share. Aside from the whole aspect of Divine Providence and putting our trust in G-d, there is a practical thing you can do that will help you on your path to success. Go on Mivtzoim. Lots of Mitzvtzoim. Nothing will prepare you for the business world more than that.
In business, everything is sales. You are trying to get someone to part with their hard earned money, to either buy something they might not want to or convincing them that your product is better that your competitors. You are trying to persuade someone that you are worth hiring and taking a chance on. You may be making a pitch to investors to get them to believe in your company, or convincing a boss about a direction the company should take. You cannot afford to be shy and you need to be tenacious.
During Mivtzoim, you approach strangers, engage them in conversation about doing things they may view as weird or unnecessary. We don’t let up until we can take that tefillin selfie to show our friends of our conquest. Aside from the incredible reward of getting people to do a mitzvah, there is nothing that readies a person for the business world in a more tangible manner. There isn’t a college course in the world that will teach you that skill! As a business owner, I can assure you that this is a much-coveted skill that I wish all my employees had.
As Chabad chassidim, we need to stay true to the words of our holy Rebbeim, in both what was clearly stated, as well as what was inferred. By doing so, we connect ourselves to a level of G-dliness that assures us of the blessings that G-d will bestow upon us. May we all merit to see them in an open and revealed manner, speedly, Amen.
Such a scenario seems inevitable. I’m sorry but welcome to the real world where, if your not in school youre in the secular world doing business. The point is that a man who works is going to interact with other woman. You have to be mature enough to be married. On another point, I do like what he says in this article. Marriage is the priority and college should go after. This is the ideal situation and I do not think anyone can disagree with what he is saying. Most people in Chabad nowadays can afford to go to college… Read more »
Mixed co-ed college is also dangerous for people who are married and do not have a grounded maturity, strong boundaries, and a stable loving marriage, marriages and people have been broken because of spouses going to college without the right intentions and grounding, and doing things that hurt the marriage and the children.
All very valid points. 1) I think there is a difference between the natural change of the times (inflation, cost of living etc.) But along with that comes the faster pace of business and the increase in average salary. Then there is a general Torah concept (which the directive of a Rebbe is) which stays true throughout time. To change that, would require some serious challenges and some real proof. As for tuition, I can only speak about the schools I have dealt with. No Chabad school I have ever dealt with, turned a child away whose parents could truly… Read more »
Too many supported by too few, and the too few growing fewer and fewer. Socialism, taking from the rich to feed to poor. It doesn’t work. This has been proven. Look at Cuba. Multiplying masses depend on the “kindness” of the system to give them free tuition, free benefits, and free perks. It seems great at first. The givers are happy to give and everyone benefits. But it isn’t sustainable when the givers run out of money. And by the next generation, poverty takes over.
All very valid points. 1) I think there is a difference between the natural change of the times (inflation, cost of living etc.) But along with that comes the faster pace of business and the increase in average salary. Then there is a general Torah concept (which the directive of a Rebbe is) which stays true throughout time. To change that, would require some serious challenges and some real proof. As for tuition, I can only speak about the schools I have dealt with. No Chabad school I have ever dealt with, turned a child away whose parents could truly… Read more »
It was a great article. Your father would be very proud!
Shea Hecht
To #62 I’m glad to bring this up. I think it’s important to highlight that over the decades the Rebbe’s organizations have recognized that mishane haitim applied to many instances. Here’s a partial list: – teaching in yiddish. Most yeshivas now recognize that this might not be the best way to go. – shluchim being sent to areas that are not self sustainable and need to fund raise outside of their own kehilas. – changing the format of the siddur that was originally designed by the frirdiker Rebbe. There are many, many, many, more examples that are too painful to… Read more »
Well said! Thank you.
“Simply put, the Rebbe’s organizations have gone against the Rebbe’s wishes and this lead to the rest of Anash going against the Rebbe’s wishes. The system self-imploded.”
BH I read your article with interest. A few points: 1. “Meshane Haitim” is a painful subject. But please remember that Anash didn’t create the times, it is the system. When the system says: A) “We can’t take your children into school without xxxxx amount of $$$. We are sorry the Rebbe said otherwise, but times have changed.” B) “We would love to hire you as you are the right wo/man for the job, but you need a degree. We know that this wouldn’t fly in the old days, but you know, the times are different.” So the onus is… Read more »
As mentioned, my father a”h started Teacher’s college (a one year course) when he was engaged, in order to get certified as a teacher and make a living. He only later went on to get a masters in religion and doctorate in philosophy, which he completed just before his 39th birthday. None of this was done with the encouragement or dissent of the Rebbe. I would only infer, that since my father was in constant contact with the Rebbe on various matters and the Rebbe surely knew that he was attending university (nor was the Rebbe ‘shy’ to tell my… Read more »
1) if you’re a girl after seminary and you go looking for a job say in Beis Rivkah Head Start, Mrs. Chaya Sara Tenembaum will ask you for a degree to teach. 2) Boys have so much energy, as a mother of four boys I’d love to see some change in the Yeshivos that part of the day is learning and part of the day they can learn to do something with their hands that they can later use as a Parnassa, (or even to learn how to do useful things around the house, that can also save tons of… Read more »
I think it was in To know and to care….. And if I remember correctly the rebbe agrees for him to go to college after he got married. Which the author doesn’t mention….. the rebbe agreeing to him going to college
Dear R Shochet – what about vocational training? Didn’t the rebbe try to establish yeshivos that would include vocational training in the curriculum?
I’m not interested in being a sales man that isn’t my strong suit it seems like all the yoongelit get married broke or live on mommy and tatty than finagle some gig lone sharking realestate brokerage I’d never plan on living that if I don’t have to ya mark zukerberg dropped out but don’t have kids if that’s ur plan it’s not fair to them ok maybe your wife will support your family just make sure to let her know before u date
Simplistic views put forward here. The key is to be well balaced spiritually and emotionally. Some learn this at home and sadly others are left alone and confused at a very young age. Schools can help but not everyone is reached in those crucial early years. Thirdly people are individuals and there are different types of learners. Mivtzoyim are a wonderful thing if one is adequately prepared. Many in this community spend hours on their phones and internet whether for business or friendship. It is not just about the college degree or the lack of it. A wholistic approach is… Read more »
Because Brooklyn became an extremely expensive place to live. Its nothing to do with college education or occupation. Its expensive point blank period. There are so many chabad communities in inexpensive suburban neighborhoods. FIVE TOWNS, POMONA is bursting! Monsey, buffalo, Pittsburg, North Miami and other neighborhoods in Florida. Look for another place. I’m an American girl, married to an Israeli, who went through the system, smicha and everything, we wanted to go on shlichus, but after kollel, we needed a parnossah, and he started what is today a successful busniss, barely knowing any English. No business classes, and forget college.… Read more »
Personally I would appreciate a response from the author on the following: 1. I live in a chabad community where the standard to maintain licensing for the Chabad School is very high. We like to call our preK which includes a kindergarten a community school but at this point 99% of the people are shomer shabbos/kashrus/tahara mishpacha, so it’s more of the Frum Jewish School. To maintain this high standard and licensing that gets the school grants from the government, lead teachers need a Masters in Early Childhood Education, Assistants bachelors or Associates. Guess how many of the teachers, educating… Read more »
Go on Shlichus!
Yes it’s important in our time with jewish college to encourage our kids to pursue college studies ! They need to face the challenges jobs of life called PARNASSA TO THEIR FAMILIES
I am pretty sure you get a BA from attending yeshiva. Both YOEC and Morristown are accredited.
Michlelet Chana is the answer for continue adult education and certificate program for vocational training.
michleletchana.org
Writing a self justifying article that grants permission for bochrim to continua to flounder because they have no way to make parnossa, does nothing for the shidduch crisis. It is also immensely dishonest and the yeitzer hora cloaked in chassidishe hergeiyshim. Attend school entirely on line, go to Jewish colleges etc. Most importantly stop lying to your son’s about what is takes to earn an honest steady living in the world we live in today. Be a chassidshe mentch and go to school, support your family bkedusha uvetahara
Whether online or not some of the required courses and reading are so unG-dly and to expose oneself to this is dangerous. Been there so I know.
Yes being married and somewhat grounded helps but it does take a commitment to learn Torah for at least as many hours as you commit to college learning.
In mixed campus classrooms-never!
Google “salaries for ( )” whatever job you can think of.
Scroll down to where it says “qualifications”…
Compare jobs that require a bachelor’s, master’s, or professional degree to something without. The differences in salary will shock you. You won’t even find jobs that don’t require at least a bachelor’s, unless you have family connections or 20 years of experience and an amazing reputation.
Unless you go into teaching or shlichus, you need at least one degree/certification/license if you want to get a job that will pay tuitions and basic living expenses.
Imagine if someone was offered to be able to do college classes in a total private scenario. All private one on one classes and no one else in your college. Only catch is, all the classes will take place in a brothel. Surely no one would think this is a good idea. The Internet is fraught with danger. Spending many hours a day on the Internet only increases that danger and is not necessarily a better option. It’s like the people that don’t walk under the awning of a movie theater (as per the directive of the Frierdikeh Rebbe) but… Read more »
Even if someone goes on to be in a serviced based career as an engineer, doctor, lawyer, architect, health care, etc. they will be faced with two scenarios: a) they will work for someone else b) they will start their own practice Both those scenarios require sales. If you work for someone else, you need to “sell yourself” to them why they should hire you. Then you need to constantly “sell yourself” as to why they should keep you or give you a pay increase etc. If you work for yourself, then you are constantly selling your services to potential… Read more »
A person can date for 2 plus years and,not find the right one. Does NOT mean there is something wrong with them. There is something wrong with our system,of dating! U know what its like to find the right guy or girl?!
By going to college you think that you need this degree to get more money and you’re not trusting that Hashem decides how much money you will get. This is a form of Avoda Zorah
So I have a question did rabbi Braun pay for my rent before I graduated from college and was making 15$ an hour!? No so. Don’t tell me nor to go to college and make 60 an hour thnaks..
My mother insisted that I go to college and told my seminary not to stop me. I lived at home and took tough science courses. When I would attend chabad house shabbos meals occassionally , it was very difficult due to the mixed nature of the events. And my father was very involved in the chabad house but at an impressionable age it is a real social pressure to be in a modern crowd where boys and girls are friendly with each other. I stayed above that but it was hard. Also, the curriculum and mindset is not always aligned… Read more »
Isn’t it also possible that a single person with an
Education and an income is a more attractive spouse. 2 incomes still isn’t enough to buy a house and raise a family in ch
Denying people an education and the means to provide for theor families is a crime.
26 is spot on!
also not everyone is cut out for “sales” remember not everybody went or was successful on mivtzoim! it is so naïve to hear older people regurgitating the same arguments from 20-50 years ago!
Success in business is all about sales? That’s the answer? Hashem gives people all types of talents, personalities etc. Not everyone is going to be a sales person, lol.
A few ppl asked what about online classes?? Let’s not pretend that the need for internet for online classes doesn’t pose it’s own problems and issues
I cant forget what the rebbe said to my friend who became a baalat tshuvah.
The rebbe told her “you have found truth, beauty, and happiness in judaism”.
This was at the womans convention when we went up individualy with letters to the rebbe and i went with her
I also became less frum in my 30s and eventually was no longer frum after being someone always at fabrengens with the rebbe It was as a result of being single and seeing no hope of marriage, and spending shabbat and yom tov alone. I also went to secular college where i met people who took me further away as i looked for friends But i came back to yiddishkeit fully as i hope you will too. I truly feel the rebbe brought me back thru dreams. I came to see the emptiness in a world without yiddishkeit as i… Read more »
If I want a degree there’s many ways to get as many as i like. If only most colage students actually don’t know an education from their own tail. Go get a degree online go to YU and don’t forfeit our birthright. So Yes we should all be zoche a real education with help from above.
It’s mainly FEAR, and that has to be addressed after a year of two of dating. PLEASE talk to an experienced coach or therapist to find out what is sabotaging your process – it’s inside YOU, not out there. Fear of failure, of abandonment, of commitment, all these are impossible to deal with on your own and they very often don’t “go away”. please turn to someone to help you move on. THIS is the main point
when we take a look at the Chanukah story as children we are told how the yidden didn’t serve avodah zara etc.
there were many yidden joining their sports and their culture.
so too, now we are in a very similar golus there is college blinding us in a very conflicting way.
May Moshaich come now!
I read this in the Reader’s digest!!
Marriage grounds you religiously, spiritually and emotionally.
When you are focused you can start a business/take a course in something practical, stud and work – there are many channels for the parnosso to come through.
Going against the Rebbe isn’t one of them!
A degree does not promise you wealth.
Yes, there are people with degrees that bh have money and they are many that I know that do not and there are many in the business world that are very well off without a degree.
The main thing that we need to remember is that money is from Hashem and not from your degree or your work (yes, you still need to make a keli)
May Hashem shower everyone with clarity, prosperity, and happiness.
He’s not saying “never get a degree” … but instead, focus on marriage first, then go to school. If you go to school before marriage, it’s easy to get caught up in non-kosher activities and besides, school takes up too much time and energy when you could be dating. Just focus like a laser beam on getting married. Don’t get distracted. Put down your phone and really focus on marriage. You might be surprised how quickly it happens for you and then you can look into kosher colleges or online programs, or regular college. That’s where a mashpia comes in.… Read more »
There is an amazing booklet out there explaining the Rebbe’s position on college as it relates to the new “Frum” options available today.
I found it very enlightening. It’s available by emailing [email protected]
If you actually want to understand and not just to vent and defend your choices – it’s a worthwhile read
Community has no helping hand infrastructure for young couples, so how u expect people to exist. It is good to give advice when people have backup parents and relatives and friends. What about those who come from overseas. Hashem will help all of us. It is not a question of degrees, nowadays schools all over here and all over do not give the same standard education as 20 years ago. Kids cannot read or count, they do not know basics, whether in Torah or counting… we need to first and foremost learn how to teach our own children in Lubavitch… Read more »
So your strongest conclusion is that we all should and need to be in sales. What if sales is not the appropriate route for them? What if they don’t enjoy Mivtzoim? You started off strong, with real-life examples and real basis from the Rebbe. Where you veered is where the only approach is just to go on Mivtzoim…What if the single can’t and doesn’t enjoy learning full-time? I’m not saying you’re wrong, I’d just like more solutions… I feel like you gave up at the end… Looking forward to a part two. Ideas… In your personal life, what did you… Read more »
Becomes problematic when our own schools won’t hire us without a degree! What do we do then? It’s so difficult a challenge!
Thank you for being so candid & sharing some raw facts without bashing. I wish you much success and happiness.
It’s much harder being frum as an older single
If you personally plan on paying for these young couples over growing expenses. Until then, dont talk. Also, there are many college courses that teach sales force and public speaking. I understand if these young people have parents that plan on supporting them and putting down a down payment for a house for them. But, when you have a couple that’s trying to make ends meet because neither of them are getting paid like a professional sallery. The problem was that they didn’t have a plan before the got married….
If you are talking about attending a mixed college and living in a dorm.
What about schools offering women only classes? Online?
BH there are many more options nowadays.
Well written but neglects the fact that in 2018, it is more than common for single Lubavitchers to get degrees- and 99% are not attending mixed classes.
Thanks for saying the truth as it is. People will do as they please, but let it be clear where the Rebbe stands in this issue. Though it is definitely a real challenge to live this way, the Rebbe made ir clear that when we make choices according to hashems will, parnassa will come from Him as well, and more imporimportantly hashem bracha will. Doesnt mean a person will be wealthy. But theres alot more to life than money! I hope I will not have to choose, but inner joy and health, finding my spouse and healthy children ranks much… Read more »
It is definitely true that many older singles move away from observance. The connection to college is tenuous. It is hard being an older single. I know. I’m 32, and I could very much be the person in the article. I was saying chitas and listening to only Jewish music in my early 20s, and now I don’t keep shabbos or kosher. It happened slowly. And most of my single friends have also become much more lenient (even those who are still frum). The reality is, a huge part of frum life is family-oriented, and when you don’t have that,… Read more »
Kol hakavod
No Education? So basically you’re saying that CHabad Chassidim should be in Kodesh or business people. Don’t let them add to fields of engineering, or dentistry, or medicine, etc… Some non-educated, doctrine followers.
There is a beautiful letter from the Rebbe to Rebbitzin Garelick from Italy when she was an unmarried girl who wanted to go to college. Everyone should read it.
Thank you Rabbi for these insights.I respected your father I enormously and can hear him tell his story and bring out the same ideas and points. Thank you so very much.
Rabbi Braum speaks with fire and brimstone agaisnt going to college however many people in crown heights are suffering financial peril and our children see this, with the hope it doesn’t happen to them. Rabbi Braun does not offer an alternative to this for our kids. When you have a kosher program that is, say, a men’s or women’s only Jewish program endorsed by Bais Yaakov or other kosher schools, you can’t deny this right to have a parnassa.
What about the non business world? Medicine? Arts?
But what about online studies where there is no issue of bad environment?
Your mivtzoyim idea is cute, until you get to the part where many employers today won’t even consider hiring someone – no matter their skills – if they don’t have a degree. I’m not saying that someone should or should not go to college, but if you’re going to try to offer a solution to a very real worry, at least make it plausible. Otherwise, the people you’re trying to convince aren’t going to take the rest of what you say seriously.
What about if an unmarried student continues to live at home while attending a local college, or boards with family members out of town?
Thank you Rabbi Shochet very well said.
First of all, its not ONLY singles, who might become more leniant in their obsevances due to being single. There are plenty of MARRIED couples who are extremely lenient too. Marriage will not save u from all issues. 2nd- all this singles out there, maybe something should be done, so it shouldnt be SO HARD to find a match. Plenty of people today rely on the government for financial aid and stuff, and have struggles with money. It should not be like that!! Maybe if people went to college and got DECENT paying jobs, then they wouldn’t have all these… Read more »
Love this!
Thank you!
As chassidim we know that the Rebbe knows best!!! Whether we understand or not, he has our best interests at heart!
Do mivtzoim all day, every day. Dude. You gotta give people options. Either fix the yeshiva or let them cut a loss and move on.
Attending a frum college where males and females have separate classes?
Doing an online course where you don’t need to go into campus?
I was raised in a frum, shomer Shabbos home (not Chassidic) but I went off to college. I lived in a Jewish dorm, had Jewish friends & got my degree, got married, raised a family. But that was many years ago. My son wanted to go to college & he did…after he got Smicha, was married & had a family. We were very clear that he couldn’t go to college on our dime as a single young man. None of our other children went to college & all are successful in their own right. If I were 18 today &… Read more »
Thank you so much for explaing this so clearly. Especially thank you for explaining why its so hard for older singles
So well said. Couldnt agree more. Even as a yeshiva bochur, make sure to have a good friend. Otherwise your left floating. Its easy to have a group of friends but a true single friend is one you need.