By COLlive reporter
A top rabbi in Israel has come out publicly against the usage of the easy-to-understand popular Gemara commentaries.
“I heard there are Yeshiva bochurim who learn Gemara with simple explanations,” Chief Rabbi Shlomo Amar said in an interview.
The Sephardic rabbi was referring to the commentary by renowned Torah scholar and Lubavitch Chasid Rabbi Adin Even Yisroel – Steinsaltz and the Artscroll Schottenstein Gemara.
Amar told the Kol B’Rama radio station one of the central problems of today’s society is the educational system.
“These explanations were made for Baalei Batim who never learned Gemara, for Baalei Teshuva that never learned. This is good to broaden the holy sphere,” he said.
“But for Yeshiva bochurim that ‘Torah is their occupation,’ to search for simple explanations, this shows how far we have gone.”
Rabbi Yossi Rosenblum, Director of Yeshiva Schools in Pittsburgh which includes an elementary and Mesivta, says matters are different in the U.S.
Rosenblum, who developed the popular Gemara Berura curriculum, says “any tool that can help should be used – so long there is a plan to develop skills and an objective to learn without them.”
“Most bochurim, regardless if they learned in Chasidish or Litvish Yeshivos, leave without knowing how to learn Gemara,” he told COLlive.com.
“And without appreciation, they stop learning.”
THE GEDOLAI HADOR APPROVE IT EVEN FOR BNEI TORAH.ALL THE BIG HASKOMOS ARE PRINTED IN THYE FRONT SO IF YOU WANT TO TAKE ISSUE WITH MESIVTA YOU CAN DIRECT YOUR PITIFUL COMMENTS TO RAV FEINSTEIN,SHLIT’A,RAV KAMITETSY,ETC
get ur facts straight Rosenblum devolped a curriculum for gemarah berurah but not the program itself. i beleie it says so in the article…..
the thing is that we have to make it meaningfull to the bochurim if we want them to put any effort in the gemorah. the point is hardly if they have the skills or not, they should first get the interest, the inclination to learn. and regretably, they do not get this from today’s yeshiva staffs. when a bochur is being put down regularly by verbaly abusive melamdim, they will have no interest in trying to aquire the skills for gemarah, or for anything jewish either. it is time we go back to the real basics: show the kids the… Read more »
why does he say that a bucher that walks out yeshiva cant learn gemarah???
With all due respect, “Americanishe Hnachos” is not our guide to Chnich, a system that has worked for thousands of years. If there is a problem today, it is certainly not the system, it is us that is the problem. I could go on and on, however i will just end off by saying, the Torah is eternal, and does not change, if you so that the chinuch system (which is a part of Torah) is outdated, this is Kefirah, and is what the reform and conservatives are saying.
The problem is mainly apply on American Bochurim they don’t know how to read hebrew
I agree with the opinon that artscroll should be used only as a helping tool because if you use it all the time what’s the piont of middle school and mesivtah you could just say skip to zal and get a shir on meforshim and poshit pshat learn out of an artscroll, so if this is the case thousand of dollars and hours are going to waist
if the bochurim don’t know how to learn it’s because of them and because of their shoel umeshiv that are so young… and we put the shoel umeshiv because it’s considered an “easy job”. the young rabbi should be the ramim, because with more horevanie they can also prepare a shiur and the Rabbis with experience should be the shoel umeshiv because then they will be really busy with educating the bochurim in the learning (instead of beeing busy with preparing shiurim) B”h myself, i got The right Rabbi that educated me how to learn a guemore- rashi, Thanks to… Read more »
he got it right!!!!!!!
FIRSToff, correction: Rabbi Rosenblum did not develop Gemara Berura, nor do I believe he claims to. HOWEVER, he has successfully implemented its use in his yeshiva. It is a fantastic system that trains students on how to break down and understand a piece of gemara through the use of a brilliant system. SECOND, I believe that if Gemara is being taught properly, there is no need for artscroll in a traditional yeshiva. That is a BIG if. THIRD, for baalei batim and bochurim for whom the system up until now has not worked, the Artscroll can be a g-dsend, enabling… Read more »
instead of arguing about which gemara to use, lets focus on how we can improve our chinuch system so we wont have to come on to such an argument, that i think is most importent.
The artscroll is good in moderation. However it is also used as a cop out. I am 22 and been in yeshiva for years. A lot of bochurim rely on it and never learn the skills they require. There must be a balance. Time to learn ‘inside’ to pick up vocab, etc. and time for picking up knowledge. Most hanholos either ban it outright or let the bochurim use it all the time.
i dont understand the whole fuss get a reguler gemarA AND WHEN you get stuck look in art scrol
just bc u can not learn gamarah but we can
I have been in chinuch for over 30 years and have taught mesivta, as well as elementary. I have 6 boys who have been through the system. Bemichilas kevod torasoi of Rabbi Amar, Rabbi Rosenblum is 100 % right. There is a mi-ut shebemi-ut of bochurim who pick up the ability to learn on their own. The majority never do (why not is a seperate discussion) and for the roiv—you use any tool that will give them a geshmuk in learning or they will drop out of the system. And once they’re out of the system—ha bor reik ein bo… Read more »
there is a story that the Alter Rebbe wanted to bless the Tzemach Tzedek with a brocho for learning and teh Tzemach Tzedek didn’t want it because he wanted to hurriveh. The Tzemach Tzedek later regretted and he said that with the Alter Rebbe’s brocho he could have hurrivehd on a higher level. The same could be said for the Artscroll. There is no mitzvah to hurriveh to figure out poshut pshat. From knowledge of poshut pshat there is still plenty of room to hurriveh – arukah me’eretz midah! But if you don’t even have the pshat right, you haven’t… Read more »
i think what the rabbi is saying is today generation is lazy. we want instant gradification. no swaet no hard work. for that hes right.
I am a 22 year old bochur who went through the entire system and I am sorry to say that the system failed in teaching me how to learn gemara on my own so what choise do I now have . Maybe if the system did a better job I would not need to use an artscroll.
Break your Head on Tosfos and Marsha Vechuli
Vedoyk.
My opinion is Daas Baalei Batim but maybe someone could pose the question to Harav Amar.
Most bochurim don’t know how to learn gemara when they leave Yeshiva? That is ridiculous. People don’t know how to learn because the minute they have a difficulty they look in the artscroll instead of breaking their head against the sugya. Using artscroll will prevent you developing in both girsa and iyun.
With all due respect to the chief rabbi, if COL was around in the11th century, the headline would be: “Rabbi Amar opposes new commentary on Talmud by Rashi.” “With this new commentary, many obscure words have been translated. This has ruined the whole system of having to use the Jastrow every fifth word.”
“If they had Artscroll while I was in yeshivah, maybe i would have learned something. Because, when you got stuck and didn’t understand something, you basically stopped learning and started a shmooze session. Once you start the shmooze, you can’t stop, as aveirah goreres aveirah. With Artscroll you can’t get stuck!”
It seems sometimes that you are simply ditached from what regular folks like me or my children do and think
Maybe for the big roshei yeshivos artscroll is asur – what about us and the children who look at a gemoro page like chinese?!
Rabbi Amar is right
I spoke to someone who was part of a study told me
the difference between Even Yisroels Shas and art scroll the even yisroel shas teaches you how to learn gemara the art scroll teaches you the gmara
we need these gemaras! especially the “MESIVTA” gemaras r a very big help!! 🙂