1
Finally someone is addressing this issue! Well said. There are so many people that turn down shiduchim based on the yichus of the girl or boy, rather than their own merits. Who are you marrying - the girl/boy or grandfather? In the end, its middos that count.

(10/30/2008 2:52:48 PM)

2
As a mother in this same situation, but with a son, I can tell you that the same problem exists both ways, wih girl's parents turning down good boys as well.

(10/30/2008 3:45:28 PM)

3
Some baal teshuva families just don't "get it"

(10/30/2008 3:51:12 PM)

4
That is really not nice. Stop labeling people...

(10/30/2008 3:53:50 PM)

5
As with every complex issue you have simplified the problem. It is not the living in some faraway place that is the problem, (although for a minority of parents it is because they do not want to, or they cannot travel and wish to visit their children often). The main problem here is when parents from yichusdicke families reject an offer of a girl or boy whose parents are Baalei Teshuvah. So call a spade a spade, it is not the location that makes the difference, if both families have a good background whether it is from Russia, Poland or Australia that is not the problem.
Another point: Be happy that you are a Lubavitcher and not out there in the Velt. There yichus is 1000 times more important than by us. There if you have yichus it is so important that it may overcomes money support issues. Most people in Crown Heights waive away talk of yichus as irrelevant and down the list of priorities. Don Not Mistake issues of yichus for issues of “BT” status.
So here is the other side of the issue. Bear with me because this is lengthy:
If your grandfather was a chossid and was moser nefesh for yiddishkeit or if your grandfather lived in Vilno and was a masmid, that quality is in your family.
Chazal teach a tradition based on the pasuk, "This Torah will not depart from your mouth or the mouths of you children or the mouths of your grandchildren forever" [Yehoshua 1:8]: If three generations are committed to learning Torah, then the Torah will never leave that person's family. The Talmud [Bava Metzia 85a] summarizes this idea with the expression "The Torah returns to its host" (Torah chozeres al achsania shelah).
Someone once asked the Chofetz Chaim: there are families that bear the name of prestigious Gedolim, who today may not even know what an Aleph looks like. What then does it mean "Torah chozeres al achsania shelah"?
The Chofetz Chaim explained that the Gemara's analogy is very precise. The Torah is like a guest seeking its host's home. Sometimes a guest knocks on one's door. If no one answers the door, the guest will not come in.
"Torah chozeres al achsania shelah" means that if Torah has been in a family for three generations, the Torah will come "knocking on that family's door" in future generations. But still, the younger generation must open the door for the guest. The guest must still be invited in by each new generation.
What I am trying to bring out is that there is a predisposition in yichusdicke families for those qualities that their grandparents and parents have toiled in. Naturally that does not automatically prove that they utilize it. But that is why people would rather make a match with someone who has a proven history of having Torah and Mesirus Nefesh in the family for generations, rather than going for someone who is only partly proven with one generation only.
Having said that, it follows that yichus is only a zero or a series of zeros, if the person him/herself is not a one all you are left with is nothing. If the person is a one then you get “100” or “1000” by virtue of yichus instead of just a “1”..
It is also easier doing research about a family that has a Torah background for generations, one knows their basic core beliefs, points of view vis a vis the outside world and other issues, and the backgrounds are more similar and compatible.
It is human nature to try and start with the easier approach before looking to a more difficult endeavor. It is also human nature to use all the advantages one has for one’s benefit and as yichus is considered an advantage, it is logical for someone with yichus to look for someone else with yichus. Same as someone with financial clout will look for someone who is also at the same or higher financial level.
Why don’t we hear complaints about why the rich match with other rich families predominantly, and not look for poorer ones first?
So let us keep things in perspective. One should not feel slighted by these preferences especially if someone has total bitochon in Hashem. After all if it is Beshert it will come to pass and the shidduch will be redt at the right time.
The right zivug will have the right qualities that are necessary to complete the couples avoda. It is useless for a CPA to covet an electrician’s tools, the electrician’s tools will not help him with his job. So it is in shidduchim only the tools you need for your mission are valuable tools to look for. If you need them Hashem will provide you with the opportunity to acquire them.
The real problem in shidduchim is not yichus, but the search for looks above qualities, the lack of research into the prospective shidduch before the couple goes out, the way information is traded between friends when it should never be divulged, not enough active and aggressive involvement by some parents and other much more important issues than yichus.
May we have Siata D’Shemaya that there be many more marriages this year than last and may all those who are looking find their shidduch speedily.
Basmelch

(10/30/2008 5:07:24 PM)

6
First i want to commend you on bringing up a really tough issue. what you say is entirely true. But i feel that you veered off into 2 different rants. on the one hand you are complaining about those who look for only Yichus. Which is irrelevant to whether they are on shlichus or not.(with Mesirus Nefesh!) b/c this issue is more of a problem between BTs and FFBs.

The Shlichus issue is anouther problem all together where the girl/boy isn't chasidish/religious enough due to the open environment they live in and the things they are exposed too. we all say the Rebbe took responsibility but that doesn't change the fact that maybe the kids of shluchim are falling by the wayside.

Just my humble opinion in the case of Yichus. #3 isn't so wrong a big problem with BTs is they have trouble meshing in and they bring to the table a lot of there outside ideas and instill them into there children and im sorry but some ppl with Yichus would rather not mix with that. i dont think it entierly wrong to want what you feel is best for your child. on the other hand the second Yichus becomes your selling point your done for.

As a person stuck in mess we call shidduch dating i wish all of us the best of luck in finding our basherts...

(10/30/2008 5:24:42 PM)

7
i mean, why are people so closed minded sometimes?? is that what the torah teaches us? isn't every jew your brother and equal?

(10/31/2008 1:00:46 AM)

8
First of all the Rebbe did take the responsibility of the shlucims' children. He stated so publicly at a farbrengen many years ago. Secondly, there are many children in main cities with a big Lubavitcher kehila (CH, Montreal, LA, etc.) with so called yichus who also are not 100% in thier actions. As to marrying BT. That is a person's choice. I can understand first generation BT to a FFB may cause some problems but there are many second & third generation BT kids that are as good or better than FFB kids. Also if you go back to the grand or great grand parents to the BT their yichus is just as great or greater than the FFBs. So don't look at yichus look at peoples actions & midos you'll be much happier. Yichus does not guarantee anything.

(10/31/2008 12:04:51 PM)

9
sorry guys, I happen to know who wrote this article and we're NOT talking about a bt or a bbt but someone with frum parents grandparents and greatparents etc, who grew up in a far away place on shlichus!
signed: author's sister

(11/1/2008 2:34:30 PM)

10
The fire and passion that a Baal Tshuva has for religion is something we should all strive for. Its clear to me from reading this page that we all need to open our eyes a little wider and get a new perspective on our lives like our fellow Baal Tshuvahs. From a girl who is FFB and looking for her basheret too- I'm always more pleased to hear that he's a BT or been on the 'other side of the tracks' as apposed to being from CH b/c that means he saw what was out there and decided against it! What strength!
Unfortunately there are too many people who are sleeping through religion. They were born into it, and there they comfortablly remain...People...
WAKE UP!!!!

(11/1/2008 7:43:22 PM)

11
I have lots of relatives on shlichus and happen to know that most of their kids (you cant generalize people and say all) are really amazing chasidish kids, and it would be a total shame for them to be overlooked for the best shiduchim just because they went to a day school. the chinuch they got at home is far better than most of CH's homes. I can tell you that much.
I hope people dont make the mistake of judging in this way.

(11/1/2008 10:30:41 PM)

12
Honestly, so many people are fed up with the whole FFB mentality thinking they are better than eveyone else. There are plenty of amzaing BT families with great kids.
A shidduch should be about the boy and the girl, not what city in Russia they came from.

(11/1/2008 10:31:56 PM)

13
how about we make a party similar to the tu b'av of old and let everyone pick their own!

(11/2/2008 4:38:14 AM)

14
yaakov or eisav?

(9/2/2009 10:16:53 AM)

15
well i am from crown heights and i hear that shluchim
only want shluchim
but t.o.d. anyways

(9/3/2009 8:18:20 PM)

16
Why would you want someone for your child who all they have is what their grandfather did, maybe you should find someone who truely lives a life of mesiros nefesh as you are.

(9/4/2009 7:06:19 PM)

17
Of mommy being over protecive and controlling and ruining her son's or daughter's life.

Boys and (specially) girls, don't let your parents go at it alone, specially if you are already past your 5th shidduch, they may be giving you a raw deal.

Parents mean best, but can really play against you.

(9/7/2009 5:07:09 PM)

18
Would you marry Avrohom Avinu, his father was an Idol Worshiper and who was his mother? What about Yitzchok, who's grandfather was an Idol worshiper. What about Yaakov, who's grandfather was Lovon and Brother was Esav... Yoseph was sold into slavery by HIs brothers. Try Moshe Rabeinu, there was marital seperation between his parents. etc......Bottom Line....every family has issues...

(9/11/2009 5:26:41 AM)

19
People these days are really stuck up and are in a BIG BIG BUBBLE. Your not supposed to find yichus or any other thing exept if hes a NICE and GOOD PERSON! Money comes and goes. Yichus Doesnt help you 1 bit if the kid is crazy. Looks doesnt help either. So what telling alllll Of u is that you should try to find a good girl or boy. Doesnt matter if he knows the entire jitas but some1 whose going to be there and treat and take care of his or her partner .

(10/5/2009 10:19:44 AM)

20
As a therapist I have seen various sides to this story. I recently worked with a woman who complained that she had to settle with a shidduch for her child that was not quite what she wanted. The family wore different kinds of head covering to what she wanted and she had Yichus. Now a few years later, her child is happily married to the "shidduch with the wrong head covering" Did the covering cover her hair completely, yes 100%. Did she have other faults. At present they cant complain, but the mother still required therapy as it distressed her so much that they had to settle for a daughter-in-law who covers her hair differently to how they do.

From other clients, I have noticed an important fact. We all have Yichus from Avraham Avinu, but how do we use it. Does this generation have good middos? If there is a choice between someone with little or less or "no" yichus who has good middos and someone with lots of yichus but no middos, which choice will you go for.
As a therapist, please think of middos before Yichus, the future children deserve parents who will parent them correctly and this can come from those without Yichus but with good middos.

(10/14/2009 7:38:33 AM)

21
yes a good start but it's more than that The shadchanim help push this bs & they're only interested in doing something if it puffs up there ego. I am a divorced Man no children & shadchanim have lied to me refused to help me for many yrs already & they all come up with phony excuses all Haipach Ahavas Yisroel, Haipach the Ratzon of the Rebbe etc.It's time to wake up to reality You are the direct cause of myself & others to not fulfill or have the opportunity to be mekayem certain Mitzvos such as Pru Uravu etc.!!!!!!!!!!!!

(10/21/2009 4:02:07 PM)

22
Middos is what you live with every day and determines whether the marriage is heaven or the opposite. And yes, middos will still be if beauty, money and all other externals are gone. My children have all the Yichus mentioned in the article--all including real mesiras nefesh--plus yichus going back to the Rama. I am seeking shidduchim for some of my children and if I hear of anyone touting their Yichus I would run from such arrogance--and I'd be glad that they exposed their ego in time for me to run. When my first got married I told of our Yichus, in a by-the-way mention only on the day before the wedding.

(10/23/2009 11:50:13 AM)

23
if someone doesent want to get married to shluchim-because they are shluchim, why on earth would someone want to get near them (al achas kama vikama ask for mercy that they should reconsider, as in this article)

(10/26/2009 8:29:19 AM)

24
I have a few Russian friends and two have of them have extreme yichus names like the real deal
People in lubavitch would be running for them but can you believe it their father is not Jewish at all
Yichus is nothing, nada.

In addition, what about shluchim hogging things for themselves when two people cannot marry each other because their parents want them to be by them on shlichus and will never take anybody else to come to their town

(10/26/2009 12:52:13 PM)

25
ive enjoyed reading all these comments and have had a good laugh or two not at anyone but with you all. there are too many problems to name why we have a shidduch crisis but the moment you all have had enough of it, it will go away. decide once and for all that you will only follow the way of the rebbe and it will be good. we all know that when we follow the correct path we are successful. i see it over and over again. a good start is don't talk amongst yourselves, but on the same hand if you go out with someone not for you but you can think of a friend tell the shadchan only. check people out thoroughly, but remember that when you point a finger at someone there are three pointed back at you. have a mashpia and i don't mean a friend in the same parsha or just out of it. a mature person who you can look up to and is past your stage in life. also a person that you are proud of and can tell people that this is who your mashpia is. stop looking on the other side of the machitza...that also includes tv, miovies and the videos too. if you are always looking at hollywood, how will you ever view the shtettle again. we are all not perfect on the outside but we are all from hashem and should be viewed that way. i see it more by the boys and their mothers. they all asked if she starts off not thin how will she look down the line years from now. i always ask them the same thing - how will you look. there are no guarantees in life so don't be above hashem. i read once a bumper sticker that said,"i may be fat but you're ugly and i can diet". what that really means is that my outside may be different than the barbie doll in the movies, but my insides/midos tovos are above yours and that makes me a better person. the stories/excuses/reasons give me are amazing and so creative i am in shock and speechless sometimes. it is really amazing if anyone is a shadchan in this day and time with what is going on. i wish everyone and all only hatzlacha in this parsha and with hopes that all the girls and boys are open to what is their proper and right shidduch and that the parents let it be good too

(10/29/2009 6:06:58 PM)

26
Did you prepare your son or daughter for marriage?
Did you teach your son or daughter how to acquire Midos Tovos?
Did you raise your son or daughter with self-esteem and confidence?
Did you show your son or daughter a happy and thriving marriage Al Pi Taharas HaKodesh, so that they could emulate it when they get married?
Did you teach your son or daughter the beauty of having a family?
Did you talk to them and explain to them how to cope with life's ups and downs?
Did you show them how Ahavas Yisroel begins in the home and reaches out to others?
Or, did you teach your son or daughter that looks and money mean everything even if you or your future spouse has a personality of a snake?

(11/26/2009 1:13:58 PM)

27
All i can say is that after over 20 years of being frum through Lubavitch it is upsetting to find that it is OK to mekarev our family but not to marry our daughters no matter how amazing they are.

(5/5/2010 9:28:39 AM)

28
Unfortunately. What I dont get is why people are so anxious to get their kids hitched to people from families who look down on them. Move on.

Otherwise, youre saying you prefer such a family, and if you do, why shouldnt they?

(6/13/2010 2:37:12 PM)

29
Is there really a shidduch crisis? Or is the situation just that B"H this generation is much larger and more diverse than ever before? Would a BT really want to marry their child into a geshe family which would not want their child married from their family? There are plenty of astounding BT families with beautiful chassidishe mishpochas out there. I should know. Somehow Hashem decided to bless us with one of these heilige mishpochas for mechutanim, ka'h.

The only problem I have with the whole thing is when people feel that they are "settling" or "compromising" with a shidduch they don't feel is "first-class." PLEASE, if you feel that way stay FAR away from us!!!! :)

(8/17/2010 2:09:18 AM)

30
Every time I look at a baal tshuva I feel humbled!
To give up all that u grew up with, be different than ur famiy and friends, let go of ur whole life stile for tora and mitzvos, thats REAL MESIRAS NEFESH - they are the ones who really feel and live yidishkeit,
would u also give up EVERYTHING that ur used to?
BAalei thsuva are the ones with real yichus

(8/21/2010 6:42:21 PM)

31
I thought ppl get married bc they love each other

(9/20/2010 1:21:03 PM)

32
The author is bringing up 2 different points that in reality have nothing to do with each other. There are very little people thay won't take kids that grew up on shlichus, I think on the contrary: people on shlichus have an easier time as they can huarantee their children with a shlichus oppertunity.
But it seems from the article that the author is a baal teshuva living on shlichus, muy request: please don't mix up the facts,,.

(12/12/2010 10:13:58 AM)

33
Please stop knocking parents! The Torah world is full of people like you! Torah blogs,newspapers and magazines are full of Rabbanim,therapists and others wagging their fingers at parents and blaming them for all their children's problems. We parents are human beings too! And everyone is alarmed about the shidduch crisis! Has anyone considered that a reason for the existence of so many older singles might be because people are being turned off by the prospect of parenthood?? They hear all this parent bashing and think "If this is what is in store for me as a parent then I'm better off staying single."

(1/18/2011 9:14:14 AM)

34
I agree with a couple of ppl here: You do seem to have veered off in a couple of directions so I am not 100% sure what your point was...?

First off: I do not think it is appropriate for you to be putting down people who live in crown heights. The peoples of Crown Heights are not rejecting you. A family/ies who happen to live in Crown Heights, are/is rejecting you.

Second: Why would you be interested in someone who thinks they are better than you?

And Third: I never knew there was a problem with girls and boys who grew up on shlichus. Unless of course you are one of those "shluchim" who dress innappropriately and pretty much run a business . Then I can understand why a mother wouldn't want you as a daughter-in-law. I'm assuming this is not the case.

You'll find your bashert honey, we all do. Being upset about "yichus" and so on...is not helping a thing.
Like I said: Why would you want someone who doesn't want you?

(2/10/2011 10:22:16 PM)

35
well said!

(5/25/2011 1:45:19 AM)

36
In my generation, before it was in style to go on shlichus, my parents went on shlichus. When it came to shidduchim, because I came from outside of NY I was considered a lesser person, even though we certainly had far more nisyonos and mesiras nefesh than anyone east of the Hudson River. But no worries, "we just don't have anyone for you" was the response I got from shadchanim. As an FFB I married a BT. We are no longer married. The divide was great. G-d's plan, but hard to understand how it is so.

(5/30/2011 12:47:23 AM)

37
shluchims kids are very often the best ones -- they have mesirus nefesh and appreciate mitzvos!

(6/9/2011 9:16:51 AM)

38
I've learned that when it comes to shidduchim, whatever reason is given for 'no' is not really the reason. It just is not bashert.
As far as yichus, every one has yichus- even Rus the Moavite had yichus-even Osnas, wife of Yosef and mother of two shvotim had yichus. Mathamaticaly, the probability of any Jew to be descended from Rashi or the Maharal or Ezra or Dovid Hamelech is quite high. For a ger, it's also quite likely that he has Jewish ancestry. An older chassid that I know claims that the Rebbe gave him extra warm brochos when two of his children married the children of ba'alei tshuva.

(7/4/2011 12:22:48 AM)

39
If you think that your grandfather was holy, remember that your great ... great grandfather was Lavan HaAramy. 12% of your (and my) genes come from Lavan. So, being a little more humble will not hurt you.

(7/12/2011 6:47:38 PM)

40
That is the best explanation that I have ever heard

(10/24/2011 9:44:16 PM)

41
The real yichuss is to be a real mentch!

(1/11/2012 10:48:44 AM)

42
Just to bring some balance to the discussion:
With yesterday dow, you don' t bake today!
Moreover, talking about yichus: Today's BT are Rebbe-made: The yichus is not that bad after all.
My last point is the true yichus is in the hands of those who keep taharat hamishpacha without any compromise: Whether you label yourself FFB or BT, remember that taharat hamishpacha is the enduring yichus for our next generations.
And no survey was published on that one.
Hm...

(2/19/2012 8:01:24 PM)

43
To all those people who say that BT people do not "mesh" with
FFB people because of how they grew up etc that is very judgemental and no wonder we have the problems we do. Who are you to judge how BT bring up thier children and what ideas they instill in them from thier past. I am a BT and I have 3 children who are first generation FFB and I would just like to tell you that I in no way and nor does my husband who is also BT bring up our pasts with our children and bring in the gashmius from the other side. Our children are growing up in a completely chassidishe evnvironment B"H. Are you FFB going to say that when it is time for my children to marry that they are not good enough to marry because of us as BT parents? Then I feel really sorry for you because you are the ones that lose out. Yes BT may not have all the background but in alot of ways we are alot frummer and more dedicated to our chassidishkeit than alot of FFB's. Stop judging BT and making it all our fault regarding shidduchim because its not. I had made a suggestion to a friend of a guy who comes from a yichusdike family but unfortunatley was married before and has kids and she turned him down without even having met him. She is in her 30's so she really does not have a lot of options in terms of shidduchim but every person suggested she has turned down as not being good enough. In that case why even bother trying if girls and boys are going to be like that.
Parents and children need to see what is important and it does not matter whether there is yichus or that they are FFB or BT it matters what kind of people they are and what they have in common.

(3/14/2012 10:46:55 AM)

44
I don't want anybody who doesn't respect or value myself, my children, my family.
People who are biased who only want to date biased people, will marry biased people. Where is the blessing in that?
People who are superficial will marry people who are also superficial...where is the blessing in that?
Be grateful that they are turning you down, it could be the greatest blessing of your life!

(7/24/2012 2:19:47 PM)

45
Ever tried calling a shadchan about your beautiful, telented daughter, middos tovos, etc ,the lot, to be told, 'when she comes into town then call me'
Guess what ?she has a life and doesnt want to join about another thousand hopeful girls,hanging out in miserable basements in CrownHeights. Why is there this attitude that Crown Heights is the centre of the world ? Why wont the boys travel, or meet up half way? Surely if she were just sitting around doing nothing it would not say very much about her. people need to broaden their horrizons.

(7/25/2012 4:52:18 AM)

46
Mymay thing in a girl is whos she is and represents i dont care about her family back track yichus beauty is from with in she has to be herself no connection to her grand parents

(7/31/2012 10:44:57 PM)

47
People in Crown Heights live with Mesiras nefesh every day. A rundown housing infrastructure, no grass or parks that are safe to play in, ticket-happy cops victimizing people who have no place to park their cars, high crime rate and a lack of support from the police and other city departments, the high bloodpressure pace of life in overcrowded, rundown New York city....

(10/17/2012 12:58:55 AM)

48
B"H
Are you looking for a shidduch? Do you know someone that is? Focus on building a Jewish home with your soul mate. If you are interested, please send a current shidduch profile, a picture and a contact number to getmarriedthisyear@gmail.com

(12/12/2012 4:46:54 AM)

49
There are parents who, consciously or unconsciously, sabotage their children's shidduchim. Like my mother tried to do to us (we got married without her help, she refused to acknowledge it for a whole year), and I am afraid she will do to my sister.

Parents need to not be in control of their children's shidduchim in some cases, if not many cases. A trusted mashpia/school principal, who cares about the young person in question, should do the job instead.

(12/19/2012 10:12:53 AM)

50
If you don't like CH, move out. You are not living in CH for the parks, are you? You're living there because religious life is easy, yachasit. Every place has its problems. But the problems that you described are not nearly as serious as those of the shluchim, and it is not mesirus nefesh. Most people are not living in CH for the religious life. They live there because of NY welfare assistance, because they have a community, friends, because there are lots of schools to choose from, in laws and parents to help and go to for Shabbat, lots of shuls, a "chassidishe" community (whatever that means), easy access to mikvaot...for the social benefits and being centrally located. It's crowded? Well, that's the price, people. Communities that have all those amenities attract a lot of people. And then there aren't jobs for them all, so it increases blood pressure. And then you have to keep up with the Cohens, so you need a car. Etc.

P.S. - the cops are just doing their job. Part of that job is to make sure that the streets and sidewalks are passable, with their maximum capacity. Grow up.

(12/19/2012 10:19:28 AM)

51
i hate when ppl judge by the family. let the girlboy have a chance to show what they can be. it is not the family heshe is marrying. it's the person!!

(1/4/2013 3:02:30 PM)

52
Shadchanim think they are qualified, and more qualified than a person's family. They tend to be know it alls, and think they know better. The problem does not lie in those looking for Yichus. Shadchanim, the problem lies in you. Do you listen to the potential shidduch, or do you assume because you have more experience, that whatever they say or feel has no relevance? Do you listen to the family closely or do you try to fit a square peg in a round hole? I find most Shidduchim should stay with introductions and leave the rest to trusted experts. You may think you have the one size fits all solution for everyone, but beleive me, nothing replaces a good Moshpiach or a good dating consultant who can get to know you well.

(3/28/2013 5:19:23 PM)

53
I know yichus is important, and is better to marry somebody of ur "type" but honestly, ppl take it way too far. ur liniege dosent count if u don't live up to it

(5/12/2013 3:09:41 PM)