The question and the answer were first published in this past week’s edition of the Ami Magazine. To become a reader, visit amimagazine.org/subscribe
Rejecting “Not Suited” Students
A board member was conflicted about rejecting students who are "not suited" for the school, so he wrote to Rabbi Shais Taub... Full Story
A board member was conflicted about rejecting students who are "not suited" for the school, so he wrote to Rabbi Shais Taub... Full Story
Thank you for your thoughtful input. I think there is a broader paradigm than what you mention. Again, that would be due to advancement in the aggregate understanding and potential of a new paradigm. Perhaps you (and others) would be willing to investigate current trends in education. One suggestion is UDL (Universal Design of Learning). There are videos, writings, specialists, etc. available. I know Chabad has invited nonJewish presenters in the past, i. e. Richard Lavoie, for other issues. I believe in his case the presentation was about behavioral concerns. I am not proposing that an “outside” consultant be recruited,… Read more »
if you care about your kavanos, then think twice just before you say hareini mekabel ali mitvos aseh, she ve ahavta le rayacha k’mocha. ikar. get meaningful and get real
You have to look at how these schools get started. It usually isn’t started by an individual who wants to peddle a teaching strategy to a group of people or an individual who is interested in starting a school for a particular type of student. These schools usually start with a group of parents who have a need for a particular type of school or an educator who has several parents who have come to him for help and now he realizes what the need is. My cousin helped start Otsar, after she gave birth to a child who suffered… Read more »
I really like how you framed this whole dilemma. However it isn’t clear to me what your answer of what to do is.
Our Mesivta’s are very strong or weak with not a suitable middle ground. An average bochur with average hanhagas has no place., but maybe a yeshiva will try. A below average bochur with average hanhagas isn’t even given a chance and sent to yeshivas with below average hanhagas- and this is tragic
Of course you can open a yeshiva to take in whomever you choose! There is, however, another way of organizing a school. It takes skill and knowledge to organize it, but it has worked. It appears your yeshiva would exclude students who do not learn best from the way you teach. There is more to teaching than using one way. Just because you may not be aware of an array of teaching strategies doesn’t mean they do not exist. I know they do, because I have successfully implemented a variety of strategies, and students who did not learn in one… Read more »
Exactly
How can u expect every single bochur go to same kind of yeshiva,it never was,
Not in any previous yeshivas of our rebbeim, just ain’t gonna work
And yet years earlier those who couldn’t afford or comprehend worked the land
If I want to open a school for a certain level or style of Bochurim, why do I now all of sudden have to cater to every Jewish Bochur?
It is an art dealing with one style and in most cases NOT POSSIBLE to deal with more, it just doesn’t work!
Of course after reading your article im a big chochom
If you have to “agonize ” or feel “bad”
That should be your red flag not to do this
(Thats if you actually have red blood in your veins)
As a rov i answer many shalos i would never give a psak if i had to agonize after i gave it
REB YID WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE REBONO SHEL OLAMS BEN YACHID
What you are saying works in small communities but not in big cities. Small town day schools usually take in everybody, regardless of what type of clothing the mother wears. Big cities, however, have communities within the larger community. In CH, for example, shuls are often formed as graduates of OT marry and go out into the community. One of these shuls that I know of formed it’s own pre-school which might eventually expand to other grade. The school is the result of the efforts of a specific group, for that specific group and eventually they took other kids as… Read more »
Ami Magazine deserves a lot of credit for giving Rabbi Taub the platform to address such important issues on a weekly basis. And thank you COL sharing it with your readership.
Very often schools might think exactly what the above board member asked. From personal experience, diversity is a beautiful thing and helps students grow and to learn how to find the good in everyone, that just because they aren’t like you doesn’t mean you have to dig deeper, the good is still obvious and revealed in them.
What is the purpose of a yeshiva? Is the faculty prepared to fulfill that purpose? Does the purpose apply only to some? If so, what about those others? It is so easy to say, “Your child does not fit with us”. What about, “We do not know enough about the art and science of teaching and learning to vary our approach”. And then, how about you yourself become a mensch and take responsibility for expanding your knowledge regarding effective teaching. And how about looking at this very important issue seriously. The lack of knowledge in so many schools can have… Read more »
Thank g d that theres so much now days
If yeshivas are not equipped to teach a student that does not fit into their expertise, then what does the community have in place for a student outside of that? I would think it is incumbent upon the leadership of the educational overseers to take a serious look at the situation. There is so much that has been researched and changed in the interest of expanding the paradigm of what effective education really means. Not everyone learns best in a conventionally-designed learning environment. And how many teachers in yeshivas are knowledgeable about the art of teaching and learning , beyond… Read more »
If you put a child with a learning disability in a class of brilliant children, the child will feel like a failure, never passing any exams, never knowing the answers to the quizzes Put a child who is always talking about and playing with violent TV characters in a class of frum refined children, and he will have no friends. Throw them out? No! Destroy the school standards? No. Why not try a tried and proven method – one school for all the children, BUT if you are not up to par with learning, you go to the class that… Read more »
My son was rejected by one camp and it caused him to cry for three days!. He went to another camp and he had the best summer he has ever had. His friends that went to the first camp are miserable. There should be communication between schools/camps. If a child does not fit the institution, the Hanhala should work with the child to find another more suitable institution. Not every child is suitable for every institution. But there is always a place for every child. In Lakewood one year, three students did not have a place in any school due… Read more »
If a yeshiva is catered for a certain style Bochur, then they are not equipped for all other styles. The boy that needs a different style yeshiva will not gain there and the rest of the “individuals” will also loose out by that boy being there. That being said, the Yeshiva has no right taking in that boy! no matter how much the Yeshiva can use the extra tuition, they can not accept someone who they can not help or who will make the other individuals loose out. If someone needs a Chicago style Yeshiva, then Jets has no right… Read more »
WHT if the parents don’t expect anything from their son,just get put of my hair. What if the child breaks every rule he promises to keep ,with arrogance and chutsfas. Not every principal is a psychologist,or won’t open a school unless he has a degree in it,some kids just don’t belong in the regular system . The community should make sure there r institutions for them. The yeshiva is not a chabad house. Don’t worry the yeshiva are still full of boys whom has to be worked on.nowadays the hsnholos are dealing ith plenty of issues,they’re not having it easy… Read more »
Schools can’t lose sight of the real mission. Because there are so many applicants don’t just choose the cream of the crop. You can allow the average kid be rejected and dejected.
The age-old question is how to pay for chinuch and everyone wishes that they had an answer to that. People have come up with all kinds of “solutions” that won’t really work such as “taxing” every individual, even singles and the elderly, to pay for chinuch, but none of that can be enforced on a community in this day and age. Schools need money to operate and the larger the school, the larger the budget, and the unfortunate opportunity for those in command to have large salaries that have also been debated ad nauseum on sites such as this, as… Read more »
I have kah many sons and have dealt over the years with many mosdos across the us and Canada. I have never experienced the kind of caring , love and dedication that they have showed to my son. There is warmth with firmness and the hanhola are sigma chayas and they really embrace the teachings of the rebbe and a love for chassidish and halocho that the talmidim cannot help but embrace and respect! Thank you Postville!!! You should be a ner lehoir to the other chabad Mesiftas and zals.
Schools often form or morph around a hashkafa, such as schools that open for the very Chassidishe, or for the Modern or for children with special needs. There is nothing wrong with this, any more so than shidduch groups that form to serve a specific population such as older singles or people who have been previously married. Each group wants to attract those who fit the criteria. The Modern school doesn’t want people who will criticize it’s values and the Chassidishe school doesn’t want someone who will dilute it’s values because these schools are not catering to a melting pot.… Read more »
Have you tried Postville? We were very impressed by how much they really cared about our son.
Insightful. But the real answer is bittul. If the administrators learn chassidus and live chassidus they will know how to deal with every child individually and subsequently build beautiful communities/schools. Keep your eye on the soul and you will never strike out. More bittul. More ahavas yisroel. Greater the challenge. Greater the love. Do the right thing. Love unconditionally.
That’s how it feels .. schools and camps need to. Accept and accept !! Give kids a chance!!! And stop these unaffordable tuitions!!!!!! As long as parents and student sign a contract to keep school rules there should not be an issue of not accepting !! Schools and yeshivas have this Higher than thou attitude and could Destroy lives … only if a student is breaking All the rules and was given several chances than you gotta find him a school for him but don’t send him to the streets until you get him help … those kids are the… Read more »
This is quite true – these principles come up in other circumstances tpp – not just in educational organizations – that the hanhala (plural or one person) finds itself in – a tzeddaka org or one who is in tuition or in an office situation (where people have to pay up) (or accepted into a program) – it can become very officious – and there can be NO bending, “working with you” – (also applies occasionally, giving a student a little slack with tests so he will succeed allround – as opposed to saying – if we give him slack,… Read more »
Too many heilige nshomas are rejected by yeshiva systems that don’t like how someone looks or because they don’t fit the box. We used to be about ‘Outreach’ and still are but ‘inreach’ is a very pressing issue
Concerning the responsibility of the school ITSELF to find a “suitable school” for any student they do not accept or want to expel. If someone can find it, it addresses these crucial issues.
This is a very impressive piece, and it is very nice, how he takes a Michtav Keloli of the rebbe and ties it in to our current situation.
However: it cannot be overlooked, that the point here is, that it may be possible, that the school is overextending itself for one individual, at the expense of other individuals.
We have to realize that the school is not one big amorphous group, rather it is made up of many little students just like this one. so if one compromises the other, then it is a interesting situation.
BH How can we throw Yiddishe Nashamas on the Street.
Isn’t it the Community Responsibility make sure, Every Yiddshe Child has somewhere to go.
Beautiful response !
As a parent and a Shliach, I struggle to understand how an educational institution can tell a child and their parents that ” we cannot educate your child. I am still looking for a mesivta for my son . Some have no room, some think their yeshiva is not for my son etc. Go explain that to a child who spent their first 14 years of life on shlichus all alone and has been dreaming of the day he will leave home and go to a real yeshiva!!!
Perhaps a good balance would be, If the institution pushes itself, while holding the lines of its principles.
So,
1. Its principles and policies are clearly defined. (If the board can’t agree on what those are it is not a healthy institution!)
2. Principles and policies are clearly communicated to parents abd students.
3. Parents and students ackowledge understanding and submitting to those policies.
4. Those policies are cherished and upheld. They remain the standard by which the health of the organazation is defined.
So who does the school accept
First time that someone really digs into the situation.
No one can do it better than rabbi Taub.