Answer by Rabbi Yosef Braun, member of the Badatz of Crown Heights:
According to halachah it is crucial for a person to live in a Torah environment. Furthermore, it’s written in Pirkei Avos, “Hevei goleh l’makom Torah” (Leave your place of residence and go into exile in order to live in a Torah environment).
The Rambam brings it as a halachah that it is important for a person to live in a religious environment; “Harcheik mishachein ra” (Distance yourself from a bad neighbor) lest you learn to emulate their behavior.
He writes that if a person is unable to find a positive, religious environment they should even go live in a desert, rather than live in an area that can have a negative influence on them.
A person should rather be alone than be in bad company—so much so that Hashem did not speak with Avraham Avinu during the time that he was living together with Lot.
The only exception to this rule is if a person leaves their frum environment with a shlichus to be mekarev (bring close) other people to Yiddishkeit, as per the saying of Chazal, “Haba l’taheir, mesayin oso”, which could be interpreted to mean that when someone goes with the shlichus of purifying others, they are helped from Shamayim.
This is very similar to the concept of Hakhel: a person should not keep to himself; they should create an entire kahal (a community) wherever they may be.
For more halachos, visit halacha2go.com
Birmingham iAlabama is a wonderful community. It not at all affordable. Mountainbrook and more specifically around Overton road near Chabad is very expensive and has little rental options.
First of all I am sorry you are in your situation. I live in Brooklyn and did get some financial help from the frum community Baruch H-sh-m. But I was out of work for over 1/2 a year and in Brooklyn there are hardly any decent paying jobs for someone without a degree or highly sought after, skill. You might want to look into earning money online. There is for example a website called swagbucks, which pays very little, but you can do some tasks online through them and earn a couple of dollars here and there. It’s better then… Read more »
Come to Birmingham, Alabama. Affordable housing. Nice Neighborhoods of Mountain Brook and Cahaba Heights and Vestavia. Awesome Chabad House with Rabbis Posner, Friedman, Weinbaum. Daily Minyan. Chevrusa Study. Thriving economy. YU-based orthodox Shul. Kosher food. Move to Birmingham, Alabama. BHAM!
About 5 years ago, I could not take the THEN high rents, so I took a job in a small city out of town.. As the job is no more I have been looking for a new one for over 8 months now with no luck. All jobs here REQUIRE at least one weekend a month, ie Shabbos.. Few places are open Sundays, including most stores. Additionally there is no viable Yiddishkheit here. Kosher food is hard to obtain and costs a near fortune. Social services here are handled at goyishe locations, of course I cannot avail myself of these… Read more »
I lot of us can’t move out. Not all of us have jobs that can be transferred elsewhere.
I have said it before & will say it again I currently reside in a nice community in The Pelham Parkway section of the Bronx The rents up here are app. 10- 15% less may be more The Jewish community over j here has shrunk but still exists Houses are very reasonable 3 of them on my block sold recently in the 5- 600k range all in good shape One of the local Shluchim here has a preschool going we have sevral shuls here 2 of which operate only on Shabbos & yomtov. One of which is near me hasn’t… Read more »
What about work?? Leaving NYC also means leaving your job. That’s a huge challenge and often near impossible. That’s why we are all STUCK.
The person posing the question didn’t ask about moving to New Haven or some other community with a frum kehilla. They are asking about moving somewhere where there is no frum community. And Rabbi Braun is simply stating a halacha that Jews have always kept, that is, if they wanted to stay frum. As it has been pointed out, it is nearly impossible to be the only frum Jew for miles and still maintain frumkeit. I am sure that everyone has some relative that moved in the 1800s to some lonely rural outpost and stayed frum but most of us… Read more »
Do your research and you will find beautiful communities that are a lot less expensive. Of course you won’t have all the kosher restaurants, clothes stores etc… but nowadays most places have all the kosher food you need. Its a trade off for sure but its doable.
Crown heights would definitely qualify as a place with negative influence
Does r’ braun think that ch is the only “frum” community in the world becuase there are tens of other options for example new haven, monsey, miami, kingston, plenty of places in nj, just to name a few… all those places are way more affordable then ch!?!?
To# 7 how about the landlord has to thank him for paying his mortgage while he’s living in the crapper extra.ect.
CH need ” section 8 Jewish one ” Jewish program when rich supports all …. but who will support for a long run , ?
To move to a small town without secure parnosa is big mistake
In CH they should be a fund for rent help for people struggling
For example
1 bedroom 1000$. Above this fund pays negotiating with landlord
2 bedrooms 1300$
3 bedroom. 1600$
Above these rentals fund should negotiate bulk with landlords
I cannot afford my rent in crown heights and i am desperate to move. R u telling me that if i become a shliach i can move anywhere that i want to? There r so many places that r affordable in the non jewish areas
Can you please explain
The real estate in CH is going through the roof, and not all Frum Yidden could afford to live here, maybe the owners or the landlords should try to lower the rents to keep people from moving away
Yes cost and quality of living is crucial, having a job perhaps most crucial
I live in an affordable community but come when you have a job. And because rents are lower so are salaries.
Crown Heights is a major struggle to afford
פנים נאמרו הדברים בד״כ. ופשוט שאין כל האישים והענינים שוים. והכל לפי מה שהוא האדם. ובכ״ז פשוט ג״כ שיש לחלק בכמה אנפי: מהות המשפיע, כוונתו, אופן הקירוב להמושפע (בדרך השפעה או חיבור), מהות המושפע, ועוד. וכפי שנת׳ כ״ז בכ״מ, ומהם – בהמצויינים לקמן. ונסמנו כאן רק מ״מ וציונים אחדים לכללות הענין. והמעיין בהם ימצא ככל הדברים והאמת האלה. ואין הזמ״ג לבאר הכל בפרטיות הדרושה כפי הנצרך. ואלו הן: אבות פ״א מ״ז ובפי׳ הרר״י ומאירי שם. ועיי״ש בפי׳ נוצר חסד. שם פ״ב מ״ה (ועיי״ש בפי׳ הרר״י. תפא״י שם). שם פ״ד מי״ד. שם פ״ו מ״ט ובפי׳ מד״ש שם. וראה מש״כ מהר״ל בפי׳… Read more »
Many new Affordable! Settlements sprung up in outlying Jewish comminities….and it’s time Lubavitch does that for those not on shlichis and need affordable locations
Unfortunately sometimes there are negative influences in Frum neighbourhoods. In 2017 you can’t hide from anything.
Complaining about landlords is pure envy, hatefulness, and lack of appreciation. Whatever you’re paying your landlord could probably get more from someone else.
And there is no need for any heter to live in a non-frum area when there are so many affordable frum areas to live in. Nobody has to live in NYC. If you can’t afford it, move to a frum neighborhood somewhere cheaper. Just don’t move among those who will have a bad influence on you and your children, unless you’re going there for the purpose of influencing them, and therefore אייד דטרח לפלוט אינו בולע
The rent in crown heights is redicilious. If we can’t move to a non frum community, then can someone do something about the rent!
@ # 6
Maybe you could find “Kosher Food” in those funny sounding communities, however you wouldent be able to find a Community that would offer 2 different Hecsheirim that feature the same Simble, both Lubavitch and so on, how could you have the nerve to even suggest someone move to a neighborhood that there is no way you could find a Minyan for Shachris after Chatzos, a big Shande!!!
and one of the cheapest cities is Chatanooga where there is a Chabad house
OBVIOUS …. can not afford the HOUSE … u need to move where u CAN afford it …… THIS is happening ALL over the world . Cost of housing is crazy !!!
Move to east flatbush, price of housing is a lot cheaper than C.H. It’s a growing community
It’s interesting I lived in a small hick town with a handful of frum families, leaving me no choice but to be friendly with the non Jews because I’m a social person by nature yet my yiddishkeit was very strong and I lived a super chassidishe life. The problem with these small affordable towns are that there’s no work, I never had money and could barely pay my bills. Eventually I moved to a big Jewish metro area, with my choice of shuls, kosher, chunuch within walking distance yet my standards slowly started to diminish. I was more negatively influenced… Read more »
Chevre! Go to Overland Park, Kansas! I heard it is the next great place! Fertile ground! Great small community waiting to truly expand! You can purchase a beautiful home for under 200K – and then some true luxury at 300K-400K. Make your move today!
Many years ago my nonfrum parents offered me my childhood home as a gift as long as I live in it
Reason I chose instead to live in ch
1: mikvah!!! Try living without one – men, women, and their cutlery
2: schools – hard to have a full time job and home school
3/ friends for your kids – non Jewish grandkids anyone
4/ kosher food – kosher grape juice and meat is crazy expensive out of town
5/ shul
6/ judaica supplies
7/ Shuirim
Etc
Let’s establish a community in Goshen NY.
Yes, it’s very painful to shell out thousands of dollars every month for rent, but please don’t blame the landlords.
The vast majority of landlords are charging the MARKET VALUE, and many frum landlords are charging a few hundred below market value. I encourage you to look at the facts rather than just pick people to blame.
It would seem to me, after seeing that new housing settlements are being built in various areas and these are entirely intended for frum people, that a group of people could get together, hire a developer, and start their own kehilla somewhere else. Generations ago, frum yidden who left NY and went to small southern or western towns where there were few or no Jews, quickly assimilated into American and even Christian society. The halacha is against this, however, I would think that if a group of Jews did what was done in Postville, moving as a group, there would… Read more »
Actually, you’re right. Tell #1 it should be Rashbi Realty.
Please read the Rebbe s letters about housing in ch.
I have to say, you’re quite witty. But that’s just chutzpa. You can’t change what is says in the Rambam. But nice lines.
The author of this article would do better focusing his energy talking to landlords or collecting funds to help make this community more affordable for the average household in this community.
Besides, it would be quite easy to make the argument that this community is more detrimental to the well being both spiritually and physically of our children than the places that some of these people are relocating too.
community where there are affordable homes. as the saying goes build and they shall come. i think its a great idea to move where the rent and competition are normal
Are you for real?
I understand that you are bitter. but you are not giving anything to your landlord. he is giving you a house/home, hot and cold water, air condition and steam. paying the insurance. go do it yourself. you cant so get down on your hands and knees and thank him for letting you in. he pays tax, insurance, water steam gardner FOR YOU. but you are jealous and dont fargin . so just thank him. he went into debt to buy this house . you did not, he fixes the roof. all you do is come and complain about everything. and… Read more »
There are many communities throughout the US that have frum/lubavitch communities with the all the amenities necessary to live a frum life style. Chinuch, Kashrus, shuls, etc
Moving requires a lot of moving parts to come together and everyone has their own things they need to work out.
But there are plenty of places to move too.
Paying more than a third of my full time salary to live in an underground hole with interesting air quality and no light.
Don’t be commenting for a heter
The fact is Torah dos not allow leaving
Instead let’s all get together to demonstrat the gezelaj (robbery) by the landrords and focuse on ways to reduce housing cost as long as we allow it and pay they will keep charging
Only thing is as a heter to leave to non frum or jewish community is to all of us (or a minyan) move together and then the community is frum…
the article mentions shlichus as an exception to the rule.
whether or not you’re a shliach, you still are obligated to spread Judaism. (the only difference is that it may not be your full time job) that being said, plus the fact that there is little reason to distinguish in between full time and part time outreach, every frum person should be able to live outside the jewish community. (either that or shluchim can’t live outside the community.)
Can you please find me a heter not to have to give twice my salary to my landlord?
Cave in great location walking distance from shul. No heating or electric bills!
Rambam realty