By Claire Grunwald for COLlive
Last year I saw a supposedly inspirational film for women about becoming a baalat teshuvah, reconnecting with religion. They showed the true story of several women individually who became frum. The story line was really good and perhaps if the presenting medium would have been the radio it would have been very inspirational indeed.
The ladies in this film were beautiful only when they were secular. After becoming religious they donned the ugliest wigs you would ever want to see and unfashionable clothes; they were very far from pretty.
Based on a true story? Not for me.
Thank God, I am FFB (frum from birth) and I am totally committed to Yiddishkeit, spirituality and all it entails. Yet, would I deliberately make myself unattractive? No way.
Some of our most honored and beloved matriarchs in the scriptures were noted for their beauty. Hashem gave woman her vanity for a reason: So she should attract a mate. And I mean attract.
The Jewish religion is wise and reasonable; even in arranged marriages the prospective couple has to meet and like each other before engagement and marriage can take place.
This fact manifests itself in several places: Take language, for instance. The word Oz, power, is male. Tiferet, beauty and balance, is female. This means that the male’s attraction to the female is power. Power either in spirituality-knowledge; materially – rich; physically – strong or muscular.
The female’s attraction is Tiferet, beauty, balance and charm. Hair is a woman’s crown. Yet it says that a married woman must be as modest about exposing her hair as she is about her most private parts.
According to Rabbi Getzel Elison’s book Woman and the Mitzvot — The Modest Way, “The sight of a woman’s hair constitutes a stimulus for attraction,” so no one but her husband should see a woman’s hair. Her hair must be covered.
The question is, must we lose our beauty when we get married or become religious?
A man is entitled to an attractive mate if he so chooses. Men have eyes and we live in a very decadent time.
I remember, before WWII, in the village that I used to spend my summers, the peasant gentile women also covered their hair with a scarf when they married. They were not a temptation for other men.
Today a beautiful wig is not immodest. Times have changed and morals have deteriorated as it was foretold that this will happen before the coming of the Moshiach.
In this secular, morally loose world we look different and nobler in our skirts and long sleeves than our revealingly dressed secular sisters.
We do not have to blend in, and we don’t. Yet, we don’t want to stick out like the Arab women. We are mainstream. Our women are doctors, teachers, lawyers, and entrepreneurs. We are educated. And we are consumers. We buy designer outfits, the finest linens, we drive nice cars, and go to charitable affairs.
All in all, most of us are Jewish women of good taste. We should not neglect the most noticeable and visible thing on our person: a good wig.
In cars or attire you know a name. On a wig the label is inside. So get educated. Shop around and buy the best for your money – even if it costs a few dollars more.
Trust me, my sisters, beauty starts inside, but right on its heels is a good wig.
Upon arriving to the U.S. from Germany in 1949, Claire worked at “Madam Marie,” an upscale wig establishment on 5th Avenue in New York. Not happy with the styling, she established Claire/Accuhair. She’s also a great-grandmother
COLlive Tznius Coverage:
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+ Many Watch Live Tznius Shiur
+ Rabbi Gancz: Now for Women
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+ Tznius Lecture: Now in Audio
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+ Is There a Tznius-Free Holiday?
+ Tznius Pitch Begins Today
+ New Tznius Restrictions at 770
In ancient times, a woman would only cover her hair upon entering the Beit Hamikdash.Similarly for the Sotah-otherwise she would not be required to cover her hair ordinarily, day to day. It is very important for people to know and realise that when a married woman covers her hair with ‘Real Hair’ the woman is covering herself with 100% Tumah. This is totally against the Torah. Nothing could be more nonsensical than for a Jewish woman to cover her hair with someone else’s hair -who was not Jewish as well!She can never fully be sure that this ‘hair’ has not… Read more »
There is No codified Halacha that a married woman must cover her hair totally and constantly whenever she steps out of her house. The Halachah has been MISinterpreted. When the Halachah refers to “Covering hair,” it does not mean “Cover your hair with hair!” and “constantly for life.” The Halachah is that: A married woman is required to cover her hair when: (1) she lights the candles to welcome in Shabbat and Yom Tov – lechavod Shabbat ve Yom Tov, and (2) when she goes to the Synagogue, because that is the place of Kedusha. The Halacha does not require… Read more »
This is very entertaining..
ur the same persistent commentator!!
u have yet to prove the Rebbe’s unrevealed reasons for DAVKA and ONLY sheituls in public!!!
You wrote: MORE THAN THE NEBACH ON THE PUBLIC HUMILIATION FOR THEM IS THE REPRISALS (R”L COURSES) PRE-TOLD IN TORAH SOURCES FOR SUCH VIOLATION!!
Leave the curses where they are. Maybe that’s why you mispelled this word! We are talking about women that are suffering already in difficult situations & relantionships. A little more compassion is called for.
When the Rebbe mentioned the Zohar on head covering, he would only quote the benefits and didn’t mention the rest. Over and over we only heard the positive, even though in the same sentence the Zohar has more to say…
I am a Chabadnik and a tichel wearer. The Rebbe never asked me to change our minhag of not wearing a shaitel as per minhug Yerushalmi but, he did convince others to wear shaitlach, which he stressed so that they will not be tempted to remove their tichlech (or show any hair) which come off easily whereas shaitlach can not be removed since your hair gets all messed up and sweaty. This proves that the Rebbe wanted shaitlach in order to keep us from transgressing the aveira of showing our hair. Yes, the Rebbe said to buy a beautiful shaitel… Read more »
I AGREE WHOLEHEARTEDLY THAT BEING TZNIUS DOESN’T MEAN YOU HAVE TO LOOK NERDY. BUT THERE’S GOTTA BE A MIDDLE OF THE ROAD. OUR LUBAVITCHER WOMEN ARE FAR FROM NERDY LOOKING. THEY MIGHT BE DRESSED LIKE NOT JEWISH LOOKING. BUT DEFINITELY NOT NERDY. YES, THE REBBE ENCOURAGED WOMEN TO WEAR NICE SHAITLACH SO THAT THEY WOULD WANT TO WEAR THEM. BUT THAT DOESN’T MEAN (IN MY HUMBLE OPINION) THAT YOU MUST BUY THE MOST EXPENSIVE SHAITEL AND SPEND THE NEXT YEAR PAYING FOR IT. AS A MATTER OF FACT I HAVE SEEN SOME REALLY WELL DRESSED WOMEN IN CROWN HEIGHTS WEARING… Read more »
why the repeat?
Perhaps you can ask this Talmid of Rav Landau’s to learn the Maamer about hair covering for you to understand it from the Chassidishe Chabad point of view.
all chabadnix know a desperate house wife when we see one!
typically NOT wearring a sheitul, and hardly a tichul on the head!
they either have seriouse rebbeliouse issues and need to do some maturring or have had NO decent attention in their marriege or from their father growing up!!
lets NOT BLAME THEM! LETS NOT JUDGE THEM UNTIL WE KNOW HOW WE WOULD HANDLE THEIR TEMPTATION IF PUT TO THE TEST!
WE ALL HAVE DIFFERENT TESTS!
JUST BEC THEIRS TAKES THE FORM OF NEEDING ATTENTION FROM MEN ON THE STREET, DOESNT MAKE OUR PRIVATE STRUGGLES ANY LESS EMBARRASSING!
to 119 please dont explain the rebbe’s reasons as he alone is the only one who can reveal them! (yet nice theory) re your argument of handing out head coverings vs Sheituls for the fry married women, 1. note they did not hand out skirts to those with pants 2. the rebbeh urged and prromoted!! he NEVER FORCED!! 3. THE REBBE’S WAY WAS PRIMERILY TO HIGHLIGHT THE BLESSINGS ETC… 4. there is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER THAT THE REBBEH WANTED TICHULS OVER SHEITULS, BUT CAVED OR BACKED OFF!!! YOUR IGNORANCE VISAVI THE REBBE’S VIEW ON THIS TOPPIC IS VERY APARENT! ALTHOUGH… Read more »
WHH Isn’t it now obvious from this little forum why we don’t have a Sanhedrin? Why the Sinas Chinam? Ladies, we can learn this inyan without resorting to callous disregard of others. I am “Litvishe” in my observance and in my heritage as my family are learned Jews originally from Lithuania. However, I have a great deal of respect for the deeds and the writings of the Rebbes of Lubavich and attend a weekly shiur on Tanya given by a talmid of Rav Landau, Av Beis Din of Bnei Brak. I dislike the tone this forum has taken and feel… Read more »
1st of all, just because there were some shmates for women who dont cover their to hair to use, when the visited the Rebbe,does not mean that the Rebbe didnt want women to wear beautiful sheitels!! Did you want them to keep a basket of wigs to plop on these womens heads while on line for dollars? And obviously you are soooooo unaware of all the teachings and writings of the Rebbe that state clearly IT IS PREFERABLE AND BETTER FOR A WOMEN TO WEAR A SHEITEL AND NOOOOT A HEAD COVERING I.E. HAT, TICHEL, SHMATE IN PUBLIC!!!!!!!! Just because… Read more »
u can guess all u want!!
the rebbeh was never the type to back down or surrender to popular trends chv!!!!
please dont explain the rebbe’s reasons as he alone is the only one who can reveal them! (yet nice theory) re your argument of handing out head coverings vs Sheituls for the fry married women, 1. note they did not hand out skirts to those with pants 2. the rebbeh urged and prromoted!! he NEVER FORCED!! 3. THE REBBE’S WAY WAS PRIMERILY TO HIGHLIGHT THE BLESSINGS ETC… 4. there is NO BASIS WHATSOEVER THAT THE REBBEH WANTED TICHULS OVER SHEITULS, BUT CAVED OR BACKED OFF!!! YOUR IGNORANCE VISAVI THE REBBE’S VIEW ON THIS TOPPIC IS VERY APARENT! ALTHOUGH I DO… Read more »
WHH I was zoche to meet the Lubavitcher Rebbe on many visits to Crown Heights to visit my sister and brother who are very devoted Chabadnicks and who both have raised beautiful families in Crown Heights. When I met with the Lubavicher Rebbe, the ladies giving everyone the once over for modesty were not handing over sheitels, beautiful or otherwise, but plain old ordinary tichels, most, the ugliest possible. If the Rebbe was as devoted to sheitel wearing as many of you seem to think, wouldn’t that be what he wants to see on all yidden just passing by? the… Read more »
WHEN LEFT W/O SENSIBLE REBUTTAL
ALLOW THE READERS TO ASSES THE VARACITYOF YOUR COUNTER ARGUMENT, RATHER THAN DESPERATELY NAME CALLING
I REPEAT, DO YOU KNOW A MORE AUTHORITATIVE GODOL THAN THE REBBEH?
THE REBBEH DID NOT COMPROMISE ON TZNIUS!!! CH”V
YET HE URGED AND PROMOTED SHEITUL ONLY (IN PUBLIC)
Reading all of these comments, a pattern emerges: those who write in all caps are, a rule, delusional (apologies to those who actually have broken keyboards).
YOU MISLEAD THE REBBE’S VIEW BY CHARACTORISING HIS VIEW AS “HETERED” …”he hetered luxurious sheitels…”
THE REBBEH WAS THE MOST STAUNCH ADVOCATE FOR THE INTEGRITY OF TZNIUS! …AD MESIRAS NEFESH MAMOSH!!!
WHH
to 105, 66
You are both very naive, Baruch Hashem for the tamimut of the Jewish People. If you want to hear the truth, speak honestly to your husbands, brothers, fathers and mothers, and dig for the truth. Maybe you’ll understand one day, and than again, maybe you won’t.
WHH The ridiculous flag waving of 81, 82, 83, 84, 85, 86, 102, 109, is taxing to those of us who like to think about what we do. the Lubavitcher Rebbe liked to think, and he was educated in many disciplines including the seven chochamas of the nations. Perhaps one of the reasons he hetered luxurious sheitels is that he was able to rise up and see the greater threat to frumkeit in the goldene medinah then the many issurim related to sheitels. Jewish women, truly, have a special light to their face which comes from their unique spiritual status…… Read more »
better than any gadol!
do u know a rav who knows better??
To 102: Apparently you don’t believe in torah shebeksav (and you are unable to understand p’shuto shel mikra either). I would say more but it would be a waste.
To 107: Wig wearing may have been mentioned in the gemara, but it was not a widespread custom, or really a custom at all. More of an oddity. What I was referring to was widespread custom, and that was introduced by the gentiles.
YOUY IMPLICATION IS THAT BTHE REBBEH AND SOO MANY GEDOLIM WERE WRONG RE THE KOSHERNESS OF REALISTIC SHETULS
WHH #97 and #98, you are both mistaken. The wearing of sheitels is discussed in the gemara, which mutars it for a woman inside her own chatzer. In the house. I don’t think that the elegant and refined ladies of Crown Heights would appreciate these sheitels that are discussed in the gemara, as they were, sadly, made of goat hair! No-one argues about whether these sheitels could be mistaken for one’s natural hair, as it was obvious to all that it was not, and yet, a woman was only permitted this in her own chatzer. You are correct that wigs… Read more »
i HATE TO TELL YOU THIS BUT NO MATTER WHAT SECT OF YIDDISHKEIT IT IS AND IT IS INCLUDING CHABAD IT IS ASSUR TO WEAR A NATURAL LOOKING WIG. END OF STORY. WHY CANT YOU ACCEPT THAT TO MAKE A MAN NCHSHAL IS AN AVEIRAH? AND WHO SAID THAT I AM LITVISH? AND IF YOU THINK YOU KNOW SO MUCH ABOUT ME AS IN YOUR OTHER COMMENTS THEN HOW OLD AM I? GOOD LUCK TO YOU TO FIGURE THAT OUT!
i agree with #66 please see a marriage counselor.
You said tichuls also cover how ever they look better with some hair showing…sheitals do not and this is why ladies sheitals are better then tichuls
To wear a sheitel as a head covering was an issur deoraisa??? please explain!!!
i looked it up! what is your point?
do u know better than 100s of rabbonim and poskim?
not to mention the Godolhador the Rebbeh?!
Actually, it would have been an issur deoraisa — Look at Vayikra 20:23.
It was never an assur – it was a machlokes between the Rabbonim.
But why did it become allowed. In other words, at what point did assur become mutar.
This is true. The tradition of wearing wigs began in England and France and spread through Europe. Until then frum women wore head coverings (of cloth.) Religious women actually began to wear wigs when it became shameful and extremely unrefined for a women to wear essentially `shmates`on her head. For this reason Rabbonim allowed women to wear wigs. But machlokes amongst Rabbonim continued about the subject until R`Moishe Isserlis in the 1800`s actually gave permission for frum women to cover their hair with wigs and it became Mutar. You can google jewish women covering hair or similar and you can… Read more »
Jewish use of wigs by Jewish women (and men as well) grew out the practice of wig-wearing in 16th century France. My question is, how come the use of wigs is not considered a gentile custom, and thus, not be followed?
These were not the Rebbe of LUBAVITCH’S views. We know for a fact, the Rebbe always promoted the importance of beautiful sheitels. He gave special brochos to people who specialize in manufacturing sheitels like Freeda from Freeda Wigs – all natural human hair with skin parts!!!!!! She even wrote about her special connection with the Rebbe about her business in the N’shei Newsletter. Are you suggestiing that the Rebbe supported something that was against Halacha??? If so you need to be posting your comments on a different (perhaps litvish?) site!!
the whole chidush of CHABAD is use this world!! but do so in accordance with HALACHA
G-D’S WAY = DIRA BATACHTONIM!
its true the rebbe did insist on sheituls, and it was not about to cover hair!
bec even an ugly sheitul can do that!
the rebbe equally urged that men buy women the most beutiful sheitul
even if it is 10x nicer than her own hair!!
if so, why do the boro parkers allow some of the sheitul to hang loose (exposed?
would they do the same w their own hair
NOT so re sheitul hair!!
the reason for sheitul was NOT MERELY bec it serves to cover,
sheitul DOES cover yet was promoted by the Rebbeh for reasons he never revealed!!
And therein lies the problem. The majority of orthodox Jewry believes that hair covering is about tznius (and have believed so for thousands of years). There can be no argument that hair covering was originally (or at some point in early Jewish history, anyway) based entirely on the “sotah” scenario. But accordingly, there is really no evidence that uncovered hair is any worse than uncovered knees or elbows. So when did hair become special? It would have to be sometime after kabbalistic teachings became more widespread — maybe the 18th century at the earliest. The irony is that while some… Read more »
sheitul has NOTHING TO DO with halachos of tznius
according to the Rebbeh!!
according to tznius a tichul or plastic bag… it doesnt matter as long as its not exposed,
sheitul,
the Rebbeh NEVER EVER gave an explanation for his strong directives in support of sheituls, especially pretty ones!!
As I see it, the main reason there’s all this controversy over hair covering is because their is no consensus of opinion as to why the hair has to be covered in the first place. From the standpoint of Chabad chassidus, the female hair itself has some kind of inherent quality that changes when a woman completes her marriage. This goes beyond the notion of basic tznius, which simply asks both men & women to dress & behave modestly. And this is why super-realistic wigs are okay (in Lubavitch) because the issue for a married woman’s hair is not whether… Read more »
some of the most beautiful women in chabad are also the most well dressed and tznius at the same time!!
re Attractive to other men, that form of provocative dress etc belongs reserved special for your own lucky husband, he is treated special NOT like all other men on the street!
the Rebbeh did NOT consider the realistic sheitul a problem, on the contrary!!! hiddur mitzvah!
re Very long or other violations of Halacha, the Rebbeh was adement!! and very clear!!! the infinite importance and blessings for mesiras nefesh on being tznius!
the Rebbeh saw NO conflict between, tznius and (the obligation of) beauty!
nebach, on those who must show elbows knees etc, to compansate for their sense of looking ugly (w/o it)
anyone who cares about their family wont walk outside w/o sheitul!!
sounds harsh?? these are the Rebbe’s words!
read up and you’ll learn what you are causing to your family good/bad etc!!
never knew there was a makor for this phenomenon!!
i teach about the benifits of tznius!
i always pointed out the apparant connection between violating tznius and inner misery!
(its self evident!)
WHH “sheitels that are made to such perfection that the woman wearing them appears to be showing her maiden hair are forbidden Min HaTorah. A married woman’s hair must be covered in order to prevent causing attraction. It therefor makes no difference whether her own hair or others hair causes this attraction. They are one and the same and forbidden min Ha Torah.’ – RESPONSA Chesed L’ Avrohom (Even Hoezer 87) ” It has, unfortunately, become fashionable for married women to wear sheitels that look like their own hair, giving the impression that they have not covered their hair, chas… Read more »
sifrei kabbala:
“a women who puts a stumbling block in front of a blind man will live a life of silent misery and outer glamor!”
I KNOW SEVERAL SUCH WOMEN! THEY SHOW A HAPPY FACE TO THE OUTSIDE WORLD!
YET THE AT HOME SITUATION IS FRAUGHT WITH BITTERNESS!! RL
ALL BEC THEY WONT KICK THE HABIT OF DRESSING IN A MANNER THAT PROVOKES THE WRONG ATTENTION!
modesty and beauty go together, it requires self respect! inner joy and maturity!
frum = abiding by HALACHA
Many
You wrote:
“women wear their sheitels on and on because
they simply cannot afford another one”.
Take a look at:
http://www.paulayoung.com
what are you tryuing to bring out exactly? that this pritsus is accaptable bec of these tryng times? like helloooooo>>>>>>>>> i think you should read comments #’s 14 ,17 ,21 ,43 ,53 ,70 do em afavor jist agree with the truth and thats it have great one
it seems to me that you are being a hypicrite. i really dont understand it. if you just said that teh sefer oz vhadar by r falk is a beautiful sefer and all, but you cant seem to follow all teh halachos properly tehn why are you making other people nuts and saying that they are on a higher madraigah jsut because they follow it more? tell me is that normal? imagine you have electronic game and there is a set of rules and if you dont follow one then you wont realoze your mistake until someone else points it… Read more »
I would llke to make a comment which I think has not been addressed yet and that is that taking care of and wearing a sheitel is an art and not everyone is adept in that. Even those who go frequently to sheitel machers do not always know how to properly put the sheitel on their head. In addition, in these trying times, a good sheitel is beyond the reach of those with large families, etc. Even going to a sheitel macher can be unaffordable for some. Many women wear their sheitels on and on because they simply cannot afford… Read more »
Beautifully written. thank you for pointing out that there is nothing wrong with wanting to and looking beautiful if it is within the context of tsnius. Yasher koach.
We all have heard about how beautiful Sara Imeinu was that she had to be hidden in the box when going to mitzrayim. How Yaakov wanted to marry Rochel because she was beautiful. How Esther Hamalkah was the most beautiful woman in all of Persia. Beauty is and should be a part of a womans life. Woman=Beauty. It is with it that our strength and power lie. We need to harness that power by looking beautiful in a very tzniusdik and appropriate way. (Even if there is chassidus which explains all of these stories in different ways, you cannot take… Read more »
You are going to have to do better then just throwing out random “Halochas”. Since there are so many of you that care deeply about how other people dress it might be a good idea for you to put together guidlines for tznius. Yes, it has been done before but somehow the authors seem to get overly excited and put in all the chumras that they can find. Start from the basics. Like covering all your hair when you get married. Once you start with details we begin to forget what the point is – cover your hair! And to… Read more »
#51
I am so sorry that you feel that way. I’m sure it is not a result of taking care of yourself and making sure you look nice. He would have appreciated it…
Kol hakavod to you for having learned Rav Falks sefer in its entirety. I b’h was able to do so as well with other Rebbetsins of my community. I strive to follow the halachot of his sefer but in all honestly I cannot say that I follow it 100% as it is on an extremely high level – as it seems you are as well. The fact is, each community is different. In some, it is a minhag for women to wear hats on top of their heads, in others to wear only headcoverings without wigs underneath and others with… Read more »
“And ladies, just in case you’re interested, husbands really don’t notice you all that much. They get used to you. And a woman who thinks she’s going to keep her husband’s tyvahs at bay because of her attractiveness either has an Am Ha’aretz for a husband, or is sadly, one herself.”
EXCUSE ME?!?!?!?!!? YOU SHOULD SEE A MARRIAGE COUNSELOR!!!!
WHH The sefer Oz Vehadar by Rav Eliyahu Falk is not only a wonderful sefer, but it is a work of pshat Halacha. Nothing in it addresses the minhags or chumras of any one community, but it does bring the straight Halacha which is applicable to all of us. Yes, many women do internalize these Hilchos in their observance of Tzniut, particularly here, in Eretz Yisroel. There were nation wide classes here where the book was given out at cost price at the time I think it was 20 shekels or about 5 dollars. I studied it under Rebbetzin Blau… Read more »
what is your problem? Cant you write in a decent and mentchlich fashion? By calling people idiots you certainly will not convince them to be more tsniusdik (and certainly NOT bring Moshiach closer.) Tsnius is in the manner we speak (and write) as well!!
And your ahava and manner of speach are certainly bringing Moshiach closer by the minute, brilliance!!
your all a bunch of idiots. You talk about moshiach all day and the way you all dress is keeping away Moshiach. Accept it! The Tznius in Lubavitch is beyond Halachah allowance!
found the name of the sefer: Leket Peah
Again, this is a mitsvah between Women and g-d. It is assur for a man to see the hair that GROWS FROM A MARRIED WOMENS HEAD!! He is not sinning by THINKING it is a married womens hair. I have seen short synthetic wigs with no skin part that look extremly natural! If what you say is true, just by walking down any street a man is sinning a zillion times. He will have to hide away in a hole to not sin, with all the married women who dont cover their hair!! A MARRIED WOMEN DOES NOT ONLY COVER… Read more »
just remember that the way you are is the most beautiful and dont worry about shidduchim hashem is our father above
and BY THE WAY DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY COMMENTS ON #56? HOLY COW!
Everyone has potential!
You just have to put a little effort into looking nice.
Perhaps you should consult with a professional to help bring out the right colors etc.
And remember, Inner beauty is also important!!
You know, some people aren’t particularly attractive, no matter what they do. Unfortunately, the emphasis on beauty is enormous. Sometimes it even leaves out the fact that shidduchim are from Hashem. Those of us who are not attractive are just stuck.
i am sorry but i cant give an expicit halacha but i dont know if you read the sefer oz vhadar levusha which even mentions the rebbe there it says that sa’ur b’isha ervah. which means that if the hair of a women is shown it is considered ervah. and when someone wears a wig that resembles her hair, she will make others nchshul and sin which is a serious sin. it may not state specifically it is assur but if itll make you make other men and boys sin then its considered assur. and i think that the rebbe… Read more »
You are so right!!! Thank you for writing!!
To #54 You are so wrong, I really feel bad for you. I wonder which school you went to. My parents come from yichus and we were brought up to look tznius but pretty at ALL times.
THE WHOLE POINT IF TZNIUS IS–NOT TO LOOK ATTRACTIVE
YOU’RE TITLE IS CONTRADICTIVE
YOU CAN’T BE TZNIUS AND ATTRACTIVE
Dear #43, I think it is wonderful that you enjoy reading collive although you are not a lubavitcher. I also agree with you that CH has a lot to work on tsniuswise. I am a lubavitcher who lives out of town and every time I come to CH I am still taken aback by the lack of tsnius – especially this time of year when the weather warms up. BUT….I would like to know what your source is for a sheitel being assur to look like your hair? I have given many lectures on hair covering for married women and… Read more »
WHH
I agree with #46; most of the respondents to this story are not so smart. Although the comment begs the question… Which category do you put yourself in #46? Your answer is glib and doesn’t honestly address the problem this article makes glaringly apparent. The skin deep perceptions women have of themselves and each other. Most women are dressing up for each other and themselves, and not in order to please their husbands. Most husbands who have any Torah Learning worth listening to, wouldn’t let these ghastly creatures out of doors with their good name attached to them.
BS”D Shame on this writer for reducing this exalted mitzvah to its lowest level possible. And ladies, just in case you’re interested, husbands really don’t notice you all that much. They get used to you. And a woman who thinks she’s going to keep her husband’s tyvahs at bay because of her attractiveness either has an Am Ha’aretz for a husband, or is sadly, one herself. this line of thought is simply bad Jewish breeding, nothing more. Everyone has special qualities, unique only to themselves. Not everyone is beautiful, and certainly not everyone is equally beautiful, and I think it… Read more »
maybe the person made
a mistake while typing!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
U Don’t know how to spell “THAT”???
Thank G-d for people like Claire who make beautiful and natural looking sheitels so women can feel beautiful inside and outside. Nowhere does it say that in order to be tznius and frum one has to look ugly.
I have had a Claire for many years and people always compliment me on how beautiful it is.
– georgeous sheitel wearer and proud of it
Yasher Koach, Mrs. Grunwald. You are a Kiddush Hashem. Not that I have met all FFB’S but many lack the forsight that you seem to have. I am a Ba’alat Tishuva and most of my secular friends and family comment about the appearance of frum women in a negative way. Thank you for your insights and understanding of what it is like for a woman to live in a secular world, in secular jobs and still cover their heads. You have given me words to use to try to make many people understand the reason and importance for wearing a… Read more »
The people that posted comments here. Ladies have to dress nice and look nice for their husbands. That is a nice good healthy thing. It is in tractate kidushin, a man may mekadesh a woman by a shliach but it is best to see her himself. Why? Why not just have men beat themselves and deny their G-d given nature? Dress tzniusdik and dress nice, look good for your husband. And like the article says, it is not a funky yellow shirt, but a decent looking sheitl. Anyway, people are so darn backwards that they can’t even understand this simple… Read more »
Thanks for answering my question. Yes, Chabad is all about achdus etc, it does not bother me in the slightest that you come on here, if anything, the opposite, im quite happy for you to come on, and post your opinions. I was simply curious to know what it was that attracted you to this site, and how you found out about it, which you answered.
Just as with many mitzvos, there are levels that some women feel they have to cover their hair. Many of the American Rebatzins who give speaches in the tznius video that is annually shown, have white scalp parts. Although I cover my hair completly, I know that some women wear falls with half (or more) of their hair showing. I do not agree with that, but it is a modraiga–a level. Perhaps if the woman would be shouted at (the way some people here were SHOUTING) they wouldn’t cover even that much. I don’t think that shouting makes people listen… Read more »
TO NUMBER 40, you said it very well. thank you to #31 if you really want ot know why i come onto this site even though i am not chabad i’ll tell you. after the horrific terrrorist in mumbai i got tis website to keep updated. and yes collive did a great job. and dince then i go on here every so often. and o kont know who said this but one of he posters above said “dont think of turning us ch’ers into lkwd” WHAT I AM TRYING TO BRING OUT IS THAT IT IS ASSUR ASSUR TO WEAR… Read more »
I am seriously trying to understand how this began. No two people dress alike, we all sport a style and have our own personalities which is reflected through our clothing. For example, I am an old hippie, my style remains hippish..we eat foods we enjoy, why would we eat what we do not like. So is true with dressing. I am sure there are women who do not dress Tznius simply for the reason to be surrounded and lauded with attention from unwelcoming visitors. Should we cast a stone at her? Perhaps, she has her reasons. The help part I… Read more »
Looking good and attracting men are 2 opposites. Yes, women must and should look good since otherwise it’s a chilul Hashem and we feel like a shmatte but being attractive where we cause people and especially men to turn their heads is neged haTorah! Just as water can drown one it can save one. Clothing can bring us to heights are lower us to the pits, ch”v… “Oz V’hudor Lvusha Vtischak l’yom achroin!” Your mode of dress should be beautiful “oz” according to Torah and “Hudor” as a hiddur mitzva and then you will merit to laugh to your final… Read more »
I know first hand she is wearing a wig. I saw it myself
you are 100% right
you wrote it perfect why dont we give up tznius and hope moshich to come
Don’t worry you’re not the only one…I am Chabad, and I also think that there is an unbelievable amount of arguing, not discussing, but arguing that goes on…..there has to be a better way, b/c this way just doesn’t make sense!
The point that I got from the article is that Woman should be attractive to their husbands.
“A man is entitled to an attractive mate if he so chooses. Men have eyes and we live in a very decadent time. ”
I am also not Chabad. But before I respond to your comment, I want to complement COLLIVE for a great site. Your site is always uplifitng and positive. Continue your great work!!!! My comment to #21 is the following: Regarding Rav Eliyashuv, Rav Shimon Schwab, z’tl, made a comment in the 70s that wigs are assur, which is interesting because in the 70s most wigs were not very pretty. At that time, no one questioned whether she was wearing a wig or not because it was so obvious she was wearing one. It is important to note that Rav Moshe… Read more »
rewrite that comment as an op-ed it needs to be heard.
Excuse me, but it is not written anywhere that your sheitel can not look like your hair, or that you can not wear a real looking part. Who ever that was that wrote that, is obviously not from CH. Dont try to turn us into Lakewood, its never gonna happen!!! Chers, keep up the great looks, of course in our most tzniusdike fashion!!
There is 2 pts.
1- To look nice, CLEAN, and not neglected every minute of the day
2- To be attractive to your husband and ONLY to him.
If we are single, we must look beautiful, nice, etc but not attractive. Do we know the incidence of being attrative. Read in the Shulchom Horuch
You worded it very well, i was thinking along the same lines, and am glad that someone already commented on our differences in struggles. Just to point out, someone commented (i think #10), that yes, many women in Tanach were noted for their beauty. That is 100% true, but think for a minute about what kind of beauty this was. It says about Sara Imeinu that she remained beautiful despite the journey she traveled. (when avraham came to mitzrayim…) Most people, when traveling tend to look a bit disheveled, to say the least, yet Sara’s beauty was untouched by the… Read more »
Some of you commented, saying that you are not chabad. Can you please tell me, I really am just curious, why do you come on this site then (which is obviously very chabad)?
put more tzniusdike and appropriate things on your website!
the opening paragraph is tottaly missing the point!
I had a teacher not too long ago who was extremely tzniusdik. She told us that wearing striped tights/socks is completley untznius and innanpropriate. And with all this talk abt children going off the derech, well maybe the extremely tznius teachers can take some fault for it, because there is sucha thing as a limit, and when you cross the line, so too, do teens but, in a bad way, god forbid.
maybe someone can take this thought into consideration and realize what I am trying to say.
~good shabbos.
CLAIRE DOES WEAR A WIG , I KNOW FOR A FACT AS I USED TO GO TO GYM WITH HER. AMAZING WIG, I NEVER KNEW IT WAS ONE EITHER!
my friend who got married last year made a shaitel from her own hair that was approved by a respectable rov in boro park? she’s a very frum girl, so i’m seeing alot of comments that are saying that sheitels that look like your own hair are ossur? if this is the case, why would many rabbonim allow shaitiels to be made from your own hair? now, about the article, i’m writing this directly to rabbi ganz who gave the tznius shiur, i would like to see what your input is about this article? or what do people think rabbi… Read more »
Thank you. It’s nice to finally hear a positive response to a comment! And to those who commented as non-chabad, who say that they can spot a CHer a mile away, unfortunately, i can’t disagree with you, however, please keep in mind that if you want to know what a true Lubavitcher looks like, don’t look at CH. Chabad is bh much bigger than ch, and we are not all like the ones you see. And #21 – yes, there is a big “ruckus” being made here in regards to tznius, which has already resulted in positive progress. I thank… Read more »
There is a definite problem with Tznius yes – but wearing brown, navy, gray and black sacks and sheitelach that look like steel wool is not Tznius either… It attracts a definite amount of negative attention and even makes a chillul Hashem as does someone who wears too tight or bright clothing. Unfortunately in the time I’ve been around – the role models for Tznius were and are women who make themselves ugly thus affecting [in my opinion]the younger generation to be turned off and go too the other extreme. THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH LOOKING GOOD! And nowhere does… Read more »
Unfortunately, madam (I’ll assume you’re female by the emotional outburst), it is precisely because of your attitude that women and girls dress the way they do. Other Chassidic groups are to be respected in every way, but quite obviously our struggle is different than theirs. Not coming from their circles, I have no idea where their hardships lie. Coming from a Chabad background, I know where our struggle lies, and for the women and girls it is definitely tznius. Unlike other sects, we are constantly exposed to the secular world, and for good reason. How tremendous it would be if… Read more »
you seriously took the bull by the horns! you said it perfectly ! i dont think i can add anytihng else ! hats off to you and much hatzlacha.
in my comment number 21 its supposed to say to#12 and guess what att #20 i am in teh same boat as you . surprise surprise i am not either chabad at all and i heard about this site a while ago and comment many times – positive ir nagative – but i thought that the chabad community needs to know what others think of them and i think i gave it to tehm pretty tough down so maybe they’ll improve……
a few weeks ago, hagaon harav elyashiv made a huge anouncement concerning wigs. he said – (i 4got which chahzal and which sefer) that it is assur min hatorah to wear a wig that looks like your hair and its assur to make someone even flinch for a second to see if you are really wearing a wig or not! and anyways do you really need a source for why it is assur to wear a wig that looks like your hair! isnt the point in wearing a wig to show that you are covering your hair and trying to… Read more »
I am not chabad, but i visit this site quite often… there is A LOT of arguing and finger pointing going on here. I just feel like theres nicer ways to get your points across without all the electronic screaming.
I personally feel the author here totally missed the point of tznius and is out to get shaitel sales
oh my goodness! what is wrong with crown heights? the tznius is so bad so i say just give it up- all your ppl are wasting your time and its obv not working so FORGET IT. tznius isgoing from bad to worse, so go work on something that you can actually change and just let moshiach come and he’ll fix the problem. I fear that if success hasnt yet hit when will it?!?!?!!?
Since when is it assur to wear a wig that looks like your real hair?
I think you need to post your sources, because that’s the first I’ve heard of that.
BTW, my wigs are all nicer looking than my hair!
The rebbe was very into women looking pretty. He even gave
Kallahs $ to buy wigs if they gave him excuses.
You have a point that Crown Heights women need to look in the mirror before they leave the house, but you come across as
a little harsh!
i wrote a long comment and i am waiting for it to get on . i seriously feel like i am sitting on hot coals! HOW IN THE WORLD CAN YOUY WRITE SUCH A HORRIBLE STATEMENT!
HOW CAN YOU SAY THAT IT WAS AMAZING THAT IT LOOKED LIKE YOUR NATURAL HAIR! WHEN SOMEONE CANT TELL IF ITS YOUR HAIR OR NOT YOUR OVER ON A SERIOUS AVEIRAH WHICH IS SAUR B’ISHA ERVAH. AND AS A PS YOU ARE MAKING OTHER PEOPLE BE CHOTEH WHAT IS THIS WORLD COMING TO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
“sheker hachain v’hevel hayofi…”
The Rebbe often stressed that girls and women should be encouraged to buy the most beautiful sheitel they can find. I believe at times the Rebbe even helped people financially with this. The Rebbe also gave BRACHOS for hatzlacha to people going into the WIG business. Obiviously by having beautiful wigs available it encourages more people to cover their hair properly.
attention collive editors: please print this comment. i think that it will greatly affect maybe just one lady out there. i dont care if its just one. but after all these months of frustration building up, i just had to write a public awareness. thanks in advance and much continued hatzlacha PBLIC AWARENESS!!!! A MUST READ FOR ALL!!!!!!!!!!!! i have been wanting to say this for a long time and i think that this is the straw broke the camels back. i think that the chabad community really needs to have more explicit tsnius guidlines . i am really serious.… Read more »
Good Morning!! Whether I agree or not, haven’t you ever heard of “SHEITELS BY CLAIRE”???!!
My mother and all my sisters have bought claires when they got married. I bought a claire when I got married. I could not believe she was wearing a wig when I saw her, it is amazing.
I still wear a claire and people here ask me if I am wearing a wig. (and no, my wig is not down to the floor)
I have to agree with the article. Looking tznius does not mean wearing the most ugly clothes or the most ugly wig. You can look attractive b’tznius. Re: wig, the halacha only says that a woman must cover all her hair. It does not say what she should cover her hair with. However, there is one point I must make. Wanting to be tznius and stylish at the same time, we have to be careful that we are not choosing styles that are goyish, i.e., long skirts(esp. jean skirts) that are tight around the buttocks, tight shirts that reveal too… Read more »
she’s right about the women in Tanach noted for their beauty. Yes, many women- Sara Imainu, Rochel Imainu, and Queen Esther- among others, have been noted for and associated with beauty. is there really anything wrong with wanting to be beautiful- if done correctly?
i think she is making a point that you can be tznius and attractive at the same time. we have such a tznius crisis here, she is just saying that tznius doesnt have to come at teh expense of beauty
She should be giving shiyurim in tzniyus and yiras shomayim.
But unfortunately it is BIZCHUS noshim tzidkaniyos and NOT behanholas nashim. So ladies, hold on to your wigs and move out of the limelight.
“Men have eyes and we live in a very decadent time.”
Why follow those decedent ways?!?
“I am Frum and Attractive” who said? JK, good point.
# 4 you will have a happy husband.
What is she trying to get people to buy her wigs???
I TOTALLY AGREE,
BEFORE WE MARRY WE FUSS OVER OUR HAIR BIG TIME, SO WHY NOT AFTER WE MARRY –
ABSOLUTELY AGREE 🙂
I really dont get her point – be frum, BUT be attractive, and just because the rest of the world is morally depraved, therefore we have permission to go along for the ride?
obviously we have to look good, and dignified, and no, the sheitel shouldnt be a mess, but i think its exactly this message of the author, which, taken too extreme, led to the tznius situation of today. (ie – we have to look good, fit in, etc) Be careful with your words.
i do not think she wears a sheitel
i am sorry i totally disagree . how can she say that being frum comes at its heels a pretty wig? whoever wrote this totally missed the point