May 26, 2009
A Word from a Shadchan

From the COLlive Inbox: As we are nearing Shavuos, allow me to use a Dvar Torah to clarify a point I am trying to make about bochurim and girls not finding their prospective Shidduch.

As we are nearing Shavuos, allow me to use a Dvar Torah to clarify a point I am trying to make about bochurim and girls not finding their prospective Shidduch.

It says in Gemarah Sanhedrin (page 22) that the task of forming a Shidduch is as difficult as the splitting of the Red Sea.

Did you ever ask yourself what is the connection? Here is an interesting explanation I once heard.

The Red Sea did not split when the brave Nachshon Ben Aminadav jumped in. The water only parted when it reached his nose, when it was an eminent risk to his life. As it says in Tehillim "for water has come up to my soul."

The same in with a Shidduch, as in the Red Sea.

To reach the goal you might need to "dampen" the Yichus factor. Consider accepting a shidduch that might not be from a specific background. Face reality and come to terms with your "swimsuit."

You may need to jump in, take the risk and get used to a new environment - this may be what will bring you to the promised land.

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1
nice...
....sweet
(5/27/2009 7:23:37 AM)
2
???
Ain Keshser klal U'Klal...
(5/27/2009 7:46:00 AM)
3
looking for a shidduch
You & other Shadchanim should actually consider doing your job that you volunteered to take upon yourself You talk about the Inyan of Yichus? How about thos of us without it? You will not even think about it most of you won't seriously consider someone who doesn't or lie to us about a prospect not return calls, tell us you can't or won't help! Do your job right without Kunsim bias etc.!
(5/27/2009 8:05:31 AM)
4
if i am not mistaken
it was up to his neck
(5/27/2009 8:07:08 AM)
5
Hugh
Whats The connection?
(5/27/2009 8:07:20 AM)
6
that was usefull....
i just learned on the first page of sotah, that kashe kkrias yam suf only applies to a second shidduch. close your book and return your calls
(5/27/2009 9:34:35 AM)
7
HUH!!
Maybe up to the nose means when you phone the shadchan over and over and over, and leave messages which do not get returned.
Maybe it means that if you do actually get through to the shadchan (probably because he/she thought you were someone else), you are told, "I'll call you right back" and they never do.
Maybe it means if you actually get to speak, you are told, "i don't have any names, but if you tell me a name, I will make the call for you."
V'ain l'harich bedovor hamitza'er!!
(5/27/2009 11:05:02 AM)
8
Thank you
Am inspired! I do not know who you are but I am sure you are a wonderful Shadchan!
Keepup the great and holy work!!!!
(5/27/2009 11:06:50 AM)
9
RIVKAH LEAH BERNATH CHICAGO SHIDDUCH GROUP
THANK YOU TO THE WRITER, IT TAKES A LOT OF GUTS TO WRITE ABOUT THIS ISSUE.

ITS NOT THAT SIMPLE, ITS A COMPLEX SUBJECT. I CORRESPOND WITH OVER 300 FAMILIES. AS I SEE IT THERE ARE SEVERAL ISSUES HERE LEAST BEING FFB WANTING A SIMILAR KIND OF FAMILY. ONE PIECE OF THIS COMPLEX PUZZLE IS THE SINGLES SPEAKING TO THEIR FRIENDS ABOUT SOMEONE THEY WENT OUT WITH. I SEE MANY SHIDDUCHIM RUINED BECAUSE OF THIS. WE HAVE MORE "CHILLED BOYS THEN GIRLS. ITS EASIER TO BE A "GOOD GIRL" THAN A "GOOD BOY". THE PRESSURE ON OUR BOYS IN THE EDUCATION SYSTEM IS HUGH. IF A BOY FALLS INTO THE MIDDLE, HE MAY BE "CHILLED". THE GIRLS HAVE MORE PLACES TO SUCEED. THEY MAY HAVE A BEAUTIFUL VOICE . GREAT OT ART. MUSIC, CHILD CARE, COOKING, ENTERTAINING, DANCE, ETC. IF A BOY NOT A LEARNER BUT GREAT AT MITZOIM, HE DOESN'T GET THE POSITIVE REINFORCEMENT HE NEEDS. THE SPLIT IN LUBAVITCH DIDN'T HELP OUR CHILDREN, CHILDREN SEE THINGS BLACK AND WHITE. RABBIS ARE GOOD OR RABBIS ARE BAD. THEY CAN'T PROCESS "GREY". WE AS ADULTS CAN. WE CAN DISAGREE WITH SOMEONE AND STILL LOVE THEM. THIS HAPPENS IN THE MATURATION PROCESS. SO MANY OF OUR KIDS CHILLED.

THE SHIDDUCHIM PROCESS IN GENERAL IS NOT YET WELL TAUGHT. THE RUCHNIUS AND THE GASHMIOUS PARTS. PEOPLE NETWORK, THAT THEY KNOW BUT BT'S NEED MORE FRIENDS TO NETWORK WITH. THATS WHER EOUR GROUP COMES IN. THE RUCHNIUS IS A BIG MYSTERY. WE TALK ABOUT BUILDING A KELI A"VESSEL' FOR THE BRACHA. BUT MOST DON'T KNOW THE STEP BY STEP PROCEDURE ON HOW TO BUILD THIS VESSEL FOR THE BRACHA. THATS WHERE WE COME IN AGAIN. WE HOLD PEOPLES HANDS THROUGH THIS PROCESS. WE ARE NOW COACHING PEOPLE ONE BABY STEP AT A TIME BUILDING THE VESSEL. AS A GROUP WE HAVE CELEBRATED OVER 40 CHASUNAHS, I FORGOT TO MENTION THE ABSOLUTE BIGGEST PROBLEM IN SHIDDUCHIM. MORE AND MORE FAMILIES ARE LEAVING THE DECISION OF "WHOM TO CHECK INTO" AND THE DECISION OF WHOM TO DATE" TO THEIR 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25 , 26 YEAR OLD CHILDREN. SOME OF THESE CHILDREN HAVE DEMANDED THIS DECISION. THIS ID NOT IN THEIR BEST INTEREST AND THIS HAS SERIOUSLY HURT THE ENTIRE PROCESS. THE PARENTS THAT HAVE CAREFULLY RAISED YOU, MADE SURE EVERY MORSEL THAT ENTERED YOUR MOUTH WAS PAS YISROEL, BISUL YISROEL, CHOLOV YISROEL,THAT NEVERY TOY IN YOUR ROOM WAS KOSHER, THAT EVERY PLAYDATE WAS WITH THE BEST KIDS, THAT WORKS ON PICKING A CAMP , SCHOOL, YESHIVA, SEMINARY WITH SUCH DEVOTION, DEPRIVED THEMSELVES TO PAY TUITION . THESE ARE THE SAME PARENTS BEING TOLD " THEY NO SAY IN WHO YOU MARRY". PARENTS NEED TO BE PARENTS AGAIN. DON'T LET THESE KIDS GET BY WITH THIS, ITS WRONG .
(5/27/2009 11:35:32 AM)
10
To #9
Sounds like you are trying to justify your parnassa. A 26 year old deciding who to date is not in their best interest?? I sure hope the system is fixed by the time my children are in the "shidduch parsha"! Let me ask you, how many of the couples you have fixed up are now divorced?
(5/27/2009 12:32:19 PM)
11
HaShem is the best Shadchan there is!
And He returns His calls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/27/2009 12:34:18 PM)
12
To the shadchan
I would like to know who you are so that I could get in touch with you.
- A 28 year old girl without "yichus."
(5/27/2009 12:47:59 PM)
13
IS HE WORTHY
I REMEMBER MANY YEARS AGO, THE FATHER OF A GIRL WHO WAS GOING OUT SERIOUSLY WITH A WONDERFUL BOCHUR WHO HAD ONE FAULT, HE WAS A BAAL TESHUVA.THE GIRL WAS FROM A "GESHE" HOME AND THE FATHER WENT IN TO THE REBBE FOR YECHIDUS AND BEMOANED THE FACT THAT HE WONDERED IF THIS BOCHUR IS DESERVING OF A GIRL LIKE HIS DAUGHTER, AFTER ALL LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE IN THE BACKGROUNDS. AND THE REBBE'S RESPONSE WAS "AND I WONDER IF SHE IS WORTHY OF HIM!"
(5/27/2009 12:58:25 PM)
14
RIVKAH LEAH BERNATH CHICAGO SHIDDUCH GROUP
NO ONE DIVORCED. THANK G-D. WE'RE NOT SHADCHANITE. WE GET NO MONEY. NOT A DIME.
(5/27/2009 1:09:18 PM)
15
ignore comments
your success is in the marriages that you've helped create.
i only wish i could have such a zchus
ignore the nasty comments, the proof is in the pudding.
good luck!!
(5/27/2009 1:47:40 PM)
16
to #10
How about an apology?
We need to (re) learn how to say sorry, I made a mistake.
Come on #10, you can do it.
(5/27/2009 2:10:41 PM)
17
#13
Yichus?! Yichus is WHAT YOU ARE and what YOU accomplish in you life, that's YOUR Yichus, not what your father,grand father or great grand father.
(5/27/2009 3:00:33 PM)
18
Shidduchim
Try making one shidduch than we will talk.
(5/27/2009 4:17:41 PM)
19
who hasa better yichus
yaakov avinu or his brother eisav?
(5/27/2009 5:00:04 PM)
20
SO SO WRONG- totally OFF.
This is article is essentially FLAWED because it is addressed to the victims (the bochrim and girls)!!!

Who makes the calls and decisions in the first few years of torture in the poor girl's dating life?

It's the uptight, square, and backward MOTHERS.

For trivial and silly thing, or sometimes for IMPORTANT things like yichus they skip over some very normal and healthy prospective matches.

Or for things that the mother "knows" is so important they turn down bochrim that might just work for the girls.

So this should be addressing mothers, the person making the pre dating decisions, not the victims.

So guys and specially girls, forward my comment to your mother, or if she doesn't use email, which we won't be surprised if you are 23+ print it out to her, or send it to her via smoke signals, or better yet...

Make your own calls.

PS: We love and respect our parents... just careful with them sometimes. They are not perfect and really do mean the best for us.
(5/27/2009 5:10:21 PM)
21
I am # !0
I am so sorry. I admit I was wrong. I didn't have all my information and facts straight.
(5/27/2009 5:44:13 PM)
22
To PS:
You love and respect us! Are you kidding! We are not perfect and you were not respectful. This is hard for the Mothers too We cant wait to see you married. All the brochos to you and may hear many many many mazeltovs.
(5/27/2009 6:02:32 PM)
23
Laaniyas Dayti
May your matches be more appropriate than your "vertelech".
(5/27/2009 6:33:22 PM)
24
clarification
when people looking for shidduchim say they want yichus its often not because of the name but rather that girls and boys who were brought up in a frum chasidisher home by parents who were also brought up in frum chassidisher homes often have a certain derher that others dont. and those brought up by bt parents have differnt feeling that others dont. This isnt to put down any type. just admit that there are different types of families in lubavitch and that each type should marry similar. Im not just stam talking, im married to someone with a very different background to me and its a very real and difficult challenge in our marrige. suffer for afew years till you get what you want so that you could be happy for the next 70+ years
(5/28/2009 2:06:25 AM)
25
yasher Koach!
You deserve a big yasher Koach for TRYING to make Shidduchim. Keep up the good work and don't get burnt out. The world needs more people like you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/28/2009 2:39:11 AM)
26
Critical Thought is an Absolute Prerequisite to Writing
This OP ED is enigmatic at best insulting at worst.
1) it dosent considder the biases of the Shadchanim
2) The Biases of the Parents
Who is the intended audience? To presume that people don't get married because of their yichus is unidirectional and not a complete truth. More often then not SHADCHANIM are agents of social norms or in other words, "gate keepers" of what is seen as status quo in CH. more often than not the Shadchanim do not reflect on their own biases, but their own own biases are reflected in the shiduchim they suggest. As such there are a whole host of handsome boys and beautiful girls that don't even get to go out because of the gate keepers.
So before we worry about the biases of the boys and girls, first things first worry about your own biases, then the parents involved.... the children are the easy part. an individual who cannot do this should not invest themselves as shadchanim because of the untold emotional damage at stake.
(5/28/2009 3:47:54 AM)
27
A request to the Bochurim and Mothers of Bochurim
I'm personally requesting on not only mine, but of other girls behalfs too - when you hear a name of a girl, please, instead of saying, "I've heard that name before", or "I'll put it on the list", give us a chance! Look into the name as properly as it deserves. Even if you have in the past heard a negative thing or two about her- B"H, we are all human, we all have our flaws, and maybe what you heard wasn't even true?? Clarify if you want by asking references, not just a friend who dated the girl. I ask of you; Mothers and Bochurim, don't just say 'no' because of what you hear from a friend of yours, look into the girl properly. Give us a chance.
- An older girl who is upset about hearing 'no' because of some false rumours based on people who don't even know me
(5/28/2009 12:13:30 PM)
28
10 Makos
a shidduch is as hard as Krias Yamsuf,but before that comes the 10 makos that we have to go thru until we get there,so figure if you went thru 10 bouts of agmas nefesh, you're just about getting there.
(7/21/2009 1:38:42 PM)
29
Gentle reminders when speaking about the MOST IMPORTANT decision in our lives...
Just a gentle reminder to the singles or parents of singles.

When Hashem puts the "idea" into someone's head and the shadchan stops playing with her child, or cooking for a new mother, or driving carpool, or making Shabbos, or just came home from work and stops to call you with an idea... please remember, he/she is just a shaliach. He/she stopped to call to tell you an idea. If you were unavailable, just call back, ask if they are available, and THANK THEM for thinking of you. And shadchans, if you are married/working/busy time of your life and don't have time to give the singles the time of day (or plain derech eretz,) please suggest that someone else rhet the shidduch. Or if you do rhet the shidduch and it goes a couple of dates but you are really too busy to talk ON THE PHONE (frum dating is limited enough... email is not a place to discuss marriage topics between 2 people who hardly know each other,) please suggest that the couple get a Rav or Rebettzin involved to help the shidduch along.

Many of us are trying to help Klal Yisrael, but shidduchim is highly confidential and personal (or at least it should be.) It really seems like everyone needs to stop being so critical. If you are frum, remember it is all in Hashem's hands anyway.

We live in galus, not old Europe - things have changed, middos are more important than yichus in this century, and don't forget to say THANK YOU:)
(5/16/2010 10:29:08 PM)
30
ATTENTION NUMBER 13
Kudos to your excellent comment. It mentioned that once a Baal Teshuva Bochur was seriously dating a Girl from a Gezha family. The father of the girl went into the Rebbe and expressed his concern if this particular Bochur was "worthy"of his Daughter, considering his background. The Rebbe's response was "and I wonder if she is worthy of him. WOW! I think this should be presented to all FFBS, No discrimination against BTS. They make the lovliest of people. Signed, BEEN THERE DONE THAT! All 3 of my married children(FFBS) married into BT families and K"AH B"H are happily married. Please let the Shidduchim roll!
(2/9/2011 1:58:08 AM)
31
Nicely put #29
In the goyishe world, prospects are advised to pay attention to how the other treats the waiter to discern "character".

It seems that in the Chabadnik frum world, it's much simpler: a Shadchan need only pay attention to the family's interaction with her - or about her to others - to get an EXCELLENT idea of what will be married into. Better than Yichus - practical, first-hand knowledge of middos, values, environment, and, of course, latent psychological problems.

"This one has eaten right, gone to all the right schools, can trace their ancestry back to Avraham Aveinu with Kohanim Gedolim on the mother's side and David Hamelech on the father's... but never learned to be patient in the home, nor to refrain from speaking loshon hara... and though I've told them several times, the parents keep calling me and being nasty when I'm trying to get all the children ready for bed... and now I have to get the Yichus checked, since the parents clearly lack chesed (Issurei Bina 19:17).... ah! HAVE I GOT THE MATCH FOR YOU!"

The Shadchanim should be able to find much more appropriate matches now - middos kneged middos.
(11/13/2012 2:49:14 PM)
32
Two Additional Notes
1) If - chas v'shalom v'chas v'shalom - the Shadchan has no husband, no children, no grandchildren, is not looking for her own Kedushin, and has no obligations nor parnassah other than this, then it might make sense to be displaying the levels of hostility, frustration, and lack of empathy shown here. (Would you really want such a Shadchan, who never had a family of her own? I would hope that your answer is "it depends on the individual circumstances" - a useful outlook in many related areas.)

Do not forget... a successful Kiddushin is her job. She will be more-or-less constantly thinking about and searching for the Bashert. Everywhere she goes, everyone she talks to, all of her interactions have this undertone. While your anxiety is completely understandable, it will take longer if she has to be on the phone with you all the time... and her job is to find the Bashert, not to hold your hands while she's doing it.

If you want instantaneous, go to J-Date... you can find as many matches as you want. Some of them might even be Jewish.

If you want your child to be with the right person, however, let the Shadchan do her avodah in peace, and a little kavod (or at least human decency) would be proper.


2) If the comments section on this entire site are typical for how you - as a community - see each other, speak to each other, feel about each other, and interact with each other...

If the dialogue and tone here are how your kehillas haKodesh demonstrates its kavod, understanding, empathy, chesed, patience, and ahavas Yisrael...

If this is what you believe shows Am HaKodesh exemplifying Torah and Mitzvot to the outside world...

then HaShem is showing you such kindness, to still have sons and daughters to consecrate, and you to celebrate the simcha with them.
May our teshuva be acceptable and may we not be reckoned with the original students of Rabbi Akiva.
(11/13/2012 3:49:55 PM)
33
what happens if a girl is not artsy????
#9: is a girl not successful if she's the scientist? lawyer? accountant? not he artist, singer, etc?
(6/13/2013 12:51:07 AM)
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