By COLlive reporter
Crown Heights hopefuls have presented their case at a wannabe “Town Hall meeting” Sunday, as the elections process itself remains in question.
9 of the 10 candidates running for membership of the Vaad Hakohol – Crown Heights Jewish Community Council had a chance to introduce themselves, even though few cared to show up.
An approximate 3,700 Jewish families reside in the Brooklyn section of Crown Heights, mostly populated by people of African descent.
The meeting focused on internal Jewish issues (such as federal funding, education and modesty) but also extended to urban concerns (Obama’s stimulus plan, middle class status and parking).
“It is clear that we have problems to solve, but these are not the people to do it,” a passer-by had casually dismissed the meeting earlier, after being asked by COLlive why he won’t be attending.
He was referring to the letter of Rabbi Avraham Osdoba, a senior local authority, calling to hold off elections for lay-leadership until a rabbinical dispute is resolved.
Osdoba accuses his senior colleague, Rabbi Yaakov Schwei, of undermining the last three elections (Badatz, Vaad Hakohol and 770 Gaboim) – and of backing a non-elected Netzigim group (representatives of local synagogues in charge of holding communal ballots).
Schwei’s confidants tell COLlive in response: “Rabbi Schwei will not get mixed in. There is a clear answer where the Rebbe wrote that the Badatz rabbis should not be involved in elections.”
As a result, representatives of a portion of the community – namely, in the Vaad Hakohol coalition – refuse to run for office.
At their presentations at the Beis Chaya Mushka school – other than the attire of one eccentric candidate – differences over policy were not evident.
They did differ over how to approach – some would suggest, handle – the rabbinical dispute.
“We cannot be paralyzed by this,” said Zaki Tamir, a criminal defense attorney who promised to back down if a rabbi instructed him directly. He first said, “I would like to stay out of deciding who is a Rav and who is not,” and then gave his opinion on the subject, suggesting that they should be limited in power: “The Rabbonim have a certain jurisdiction…”
Yossel Motchkin, owner of the Kretchme Pizza Shop, whose election slogan is “More Gashmius – More Ruchnius,” had his own idea.
“We will give the Rabbonim three months. If they can’t get it together, we will have new elections for Bais Din to restore credibility.”
His suggestion was met with applause, as if indicating: all agree on the problems, not necessarily the solutions.
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+ Crown Heights Gets Tarnished
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Do not think that buying a house here in CH is not going on shlichus. On the contrary, here is the greatest shlicus. Buying a house, hinuch for your kids, you have to muster up a lot of ahavas Yisroel here, there are so many shiurim (BH for the new Yigdal Torah organization), there is even miftsa tank if you want, you can learn with someone online. There is a wealth of what to do for the Rebbe here!
17
But he knows how to yell in 770, and that’s what counts! The more you can yell, the more qualified you are to pasken who is a Rov and who isn’t a Rov. ( Shimush not relevant.)
…to watch the stupidity from hundreds of miles away. Thank you COLLive for the entertainment. Please post the videos next time so we can hear the Oholei Torah English as well as seeing the pictures of a bunch of uneducated shikurim.
that was such a mendy pellin comment 🙂
now someone tell me pls, in that first collage picture with 9 rabbis, isnt the right-bottom one the photographer of all the chassunas? i mean the official fotografer, not like yossi percia or mendy lewis who take pics for COLLIVE
17:
do you want to be the 24,001’th person to die because of siinas chinom? and in the sefira!
i also disagree with such beards, but come on! kol yisroel arevim ze la ze!
now that everyone knows the problem does anyone have a normal solution to any of these problems???
i think we need to let the younger ones get involved
1.anyone from the age of 18 can be a candidate
2.anyone from the age of 18 can vote
WE NEED CHANGE!!!!
To #13 “Shomrim v Shmira; Rabbi Schwei v. Rabbi Osdoba; Aguch v the wackos in 770…the list is amazing.” You forgot to add the latest C.H battle: Rabbi Gancz vs. women (or is it tznius)…and all those complaining -go live elsewhere…really is this what your kids need as an example… it ain’t worth the sacrifice…
hahahaha
This is too funny!
And the best part:
At their presentations at the Beis Chaya Mushka school – other than the attire of one eccentric candidate – differences over policy were not evident.
Go Elie!
From what i understand, you approached Rabbi Osdoba about your candidacy and he forbid you from running
How can you preach about respecting the rabonim when you publicly disobey them?!
You lost my vote (whenever there will be legitimate elections)
Elections won’t help the rabbonim situation
Waste of time
I am not even sure of your positions or that I will vote in this election but I beg of you not to be affected or deterred by the naysayers, the ones who have never done anything themselves besides for criticize and mock others, the nobodies and the has-beens who use there fleeting power to destroy because that is there only way to retain any sort of influence. The above mentioned are the reason why most normal people do not want to take any sort of public stand. I know that you are an intelligent and motivated professional and if… Read more »
AM i crazy? I am looking to buy a house in CH.
I think that thisi s happenning beacuse we did not listen to the Rebbe
instead of going for shlichus, pp stayed in CH, doing nothing, just fighting, A lub has to go on shlichus
WATCH IT! PPL!
IF YOU LOOSE YOUR RABONIM, YOULL END UP W/O EVEN ONE ELEMENTARY SCHOOL,
LEARN FROM THE CHAOS IN MONTREAL! DUE TO NO LEADERSHIP!!
I could not have said it better then # 76
sometimes when you worry about everyone else,
you forget about your own
Scary how complicated everything in this community is to execute. No rabbis, no leaders… Its a real shame. The people who lose out are those who need it the most. This has always bothered me. Even when the Rebbe was alive, the undermining petty politics and fight for pedestrian muscle has handicapped the greater good that is needed in this community. Its pathetic how much the underachiever and incompetent cast of characters who try to hold leadership positions in our community prey upon the simple and mostly good people for their own self advancement. This unfortunately is a wide spread… Read more »
Ehen it stinks it’s from the head.
The head nezig is up the river.
http://www.poltoraklaw.com/blog/
How can this election take place when the Real Netzigim did not approve of this process?
This is not legal and will be challenged and if need to be also in Court where they will nullify all the results.
TAMIR SHOWS TRUE RESPECT FOR THE RABBONIM AND THAT ALONE REFLECTS HIS INTEGRITY. I VOTE TAMIR.
There are a number of good candidates running, all upstanding member of the community.Personally, I have worked with Zaki Tamir in the past and have seen the wonderful, selfless and often anonymous work that he has done for the residents of our shcuna. Such a position would only assist our community in accomplishing our much needed and long overdue goals.
i am loosing my respect for this place. Why cant the rabbanim agree with each other and not figth like 2nd graders. Im getting a real good laugh at this. Why should ii listen to the rabbanim when they fight like kidies. I think ill stick with rabbi heller whom is kind of out of this.
Quite obvious, really. To vote, you need to be somebody who is settled in the community – obviously. Someone married (or divorced/widowed) and living in CH, or a 30+ bochur still in CH, is definitely settled in CH. Bochrim under 30 are just passing through and shouldn’t be installing leaders which will keep their posts for a few years.
And unfortunately, there already are a significant amount of 30+ bochrim, and the number is growing.
A better question is why do you have to be 30 to vote, I mean the qualifications are married, divorced, bachor, i mean how many 30 and up bachorim are there? I would seriously like to know why
Thank you #54 for giving me a great laugh for the day.
i’m a bt and new to crown heights but why aint women allowed to stand?
he should win, just for that.
The open forum was a kiddush ha shemtrue unity
meshichistim, anti, righty, lefty ALL together
I have never seen such a nice open forum
and so many attending
big yasher ko ach
Disputed candidates?!
How about Disputed RAV!!
Ozdoba has TWO Seiruvim!! (on personal matters), so who is disputed ? The Candidates? or Avrohom O??
it was a record braking of attendees, last town hall meeting was a THIRD of this time! 2 times ago at the town hall meeting was alittle over a minyen.
it pains you to see that the meeting went smoothly without machlokes! THAT same thing makes me proud.
Split the schuna rabbi schwei camp Rabbi osdoba camp Tzius Camp untznius camp Baerd camp non baerd camp Michichiston camp non mishachiston camp …………….Lushen hora cmp Non lushen hara Camp ….. Vshulom Al Yisroel Vnomar Amain
I thank you for your comment.
I just got home from work, 8:00 pm.
The TWO LAYDIG GAYERS Yossel K and Yossel R ewre all day with POSITIVE work for the community?
What exactly are you getting done?
While all the men are filling Crown heights with Loshon Hora and hot air. We are getting things done, Baruch Hashem
i cant believe col is posting all this loshon hora and theese stupid,nasty comments!! its disgusting and so sad!!!!!shame!!
all 9 candidates had a meeting -together- with hendel in bais moshiach last week
different times different generation
I recommend we elect beards to these positions — beards mamash, without bodies to get in the way. Decisions will be determined by which way the individual hairs blow.
our community is soo shameful im not even involved but having connection with these people in a slight way im afraid we couldnt of come up with a worse bunch of people to lawnmow my lawn
Do any of you even know that it is thanks to Chanina Sperlin that Crown heights will never get the 2 way street on Eastern parkway blocked off for an event ever again? Because that one time that Chanina said that we don’t need it blocked off
In the seventies there was a very special chossid by the name of Shmuel Shrage that was in charge of CH relations with government on federal, state and city levels. His beard was not full. The Rebbe appointed loyal and poel mamesh people even if they didn’t “play the part”. Unfortunately after he passed away in early January ’77 noone ever really picked up where he left off.
We need a TWO TIME FELON to be at the side of the raabonim and to represent CH.
Just saying…
At least someone was saying tehilim!
🙂 I have been gone from CH for a while now and don’t keep up with the characters….isn’t the Doctor gone?
But we both forgot Z the Pigeon Lady!
Best comment so far. Including mine!!!
You forgot Eliezer & the guy on the corner of Kingston & President. And the flower sellers. The Sheinkeit Lady. The Doctor. The Goggle Lady (remember her??)
There is such a long list of deserving candidates who have much more to offer than this bunch.
Tamir will be great maybe he will get his brother in law (shimie deitch lizhener rebbe) to come back to CH, then all of the real chasidim/maschistin will have soemone to hang on to and leave my rebbe alone.
isnt it amazing that no matter the Rav, or Rov, they can always be dismissed by a qoute from the Rebbe?
sad sad sad
this is really sad……..
i really feel bad 4 the Rebbi and our kids
1) Charlie Buttons
2) Zalman der shikker
3) Sidney
4) Derrick Nelson
weres the guy behind it all… hertzog i saw him there, he seems to have slipped the camera so he doesnt look like he was there stratigilly ensuring his agenda gets brought into Vaad that may get voted in.
You’re just mad that you can’t run for a position because of your spelling deficiencies and overuse of comas. Get over your sour grapes and grow a beard, or whatever..
i wrote that comment
I just love the “Hollywood Squares” image at the top of this article. The thing is, none of them look happy, so I guess they know they’re all gonna be losers in the end.
BS”D If any of the rabbonim are rebelling against the Schulchan Oruch of G-d, G-d help them! I have lived in Crown Heights since 1976 (Minus 2 years in Sefad, Israel) and was always prone to one rav. After reading both letters I don’t know who to believe and am investigating carefully. As for many of the stupid and cowardly comments on this web site I can say that I was present at the meeting and all of the candidates are MARVELOUS, SERIOUS, SPECIAL PEOPLE! It’s not uncommon for a criminal coward to shoot from ambush and then run away!… Read more »
You get what you deserve, people! If this is our choice of candidates, and they do look like a bunch of clowns, then only CH as a community are to blame. You didn’t stand up for yourselves earlier when things were just starting to get out of hand (disputes, machlokes, tznius…) and now there is no turning back.
You get a bunch of clowns because this community is a CIRCUS!!
Did any one care to discuss the housing issue we have. many young couples are getting married and have no where to live. guess who is taking the apartments now. the yuppies form park slope. williamsburg is building. they are down to the bridge.people are not moving out fast enough on shluchus and we need more apartments. if we get together with some sholom and real leaders, we can get somewhere. lets grow and expand. It is not fair that only the young modern couples live comfortably while others are in a one bedroom apt with a crib and onther… Read more »
now i understand the vort you do not want to see how hot dogs are made
at least a hot dog taste good
Es zol nor kain yiden nit shaten
Didnt Abba P. scream and yell, that he “does not care if the community was burned to the ground, as long as Dovid Fisher is out”
Abba P., you happy now that your wish was fulfiled? The community burned to the ground, and Fisher get the last laugh!!!
Kabolas Hatora Bisimcha U’bpnimiyus!
IS A TRUE CHOSID AND SHOULD BE A YIREI SHAMAYIM AND LISTEN TO RABBI OSDABA!!!!!!!
kOL hOVER AL DIVREI CHACHIOM ….
This article is VERY biased and written with such prejudice. It is so clear feom the way you’re writin g that you don’t believe in honest or fair reporting. Shame on colive!
One more point, whether you consider this a sall crowd or not, it has never been bigger. Not in this contested election nor in any other ‘legitimate’ election.
the people running are the people we deserve
People in this community were excommunicated. Ostracized and almost destroyed. People, families, and the community as a whole were destroyed. Our community and nationhood has been pulled back 25 years, ALL because there were people who supposedly did not have Kovod Harabonim, which supposedly were endorsed by the Rebbe. Now all of a sudden the same people who were behind the destruction of crown heights. Under the mantel of KOVOD HARABONIM, find themselves not being able to control and dictate to the Beis Din, BOOM suddenly Osdoba is not a Rov, the Kashsus is not Kosher. Etc etc. I am… Read more »
We can all learn something from reb motul chein. Anyone who knows him knows that he is a normal person “min hashurah”. The fact that he was willing to sit in that room shows that he really believes in this and that he is willing to follow what he believes.
Now, just less than 2 weeks before Shavuous, kabalas matan torah, we sit here and say such harsh and hurtful things about our brothers.
This community needs a refuah shelaimah.
I am very suppriesed Yosef Keller is running, what does he need it for? He knows better, he is a Yodeia Sefer.
To no. 9, the community did electr new Rabbonim, the elected Zirkind, Raiport and Segal, the community showed what they want.
Sam Melamus trimmes and shaves and ran the cumminty councel
I agree with #8 that he should be taken seriously, but in the worrisome sense.
Something about don’t seen right. After all, he was a full flesh tomim in Detroit.
I think that Crown Heights is a stepping stone for him for higher office in the future
A quick review of Rabbi Osdoba’s most recent letter begs explanation. At the outset of the letter he refers to ‘a certain individual’, referring to Rabbi Schwei, and half way through the letter, when it suits his critique, he refers to him a member of the Beis Din. Is he a certain individual or is he is a member of the Beis Din ? Why is his name not listed on your letter head ? Also, the gist of the letter states that being that certain candidates have made disparaging remarks about Rabbonim they are ‘ violaters’,’disqualified’,’vulgar’ and ‘offensive’ and… Read more »
In a community of 3700 families (say, 14800 people) – 40 or even 60 is considered a few
Why didn’t they hold the meeting in a smaller classroom. you would be able to write “people were standing outside”
if this was a serious meeting – and it never was, nothing to do with this elections – you would have it in Oholei Torah or Lubavitch Yeshiva
Is no clown he is doing this for the right reasons and with the right intentions! R.H.
how can u have a guy with a trimed beard???????? and No way is yisroal MUTCHTHTHTTHKIN winnig. he cant even keep his pizza store orgenized!!!
it looks llike the same type of crowd that was at the Tzinus thing
the place is jammed packed.
How biased is collove!!!
Keller – Chairman; Shagalov, Mochkin, Poltorak – Members. That would be fun…
Let’s face some facts: 1. Fish smells from the head. Since Rabbi Schwei was elected to the Bais Din we, as a community, have seen real machloykes that makes the now-dead Fischer saga look like a game. We cry with all these tragedies R”L & then wonder why we suffer when our “Rabbonim” don’t even pretend to get along. 2. This community is treated as a joke by City Hall & the Federal govt. Shomrim v Shmira; Rabbi Schwei v. Rabbi Osdoba; Aguch v the wackos in 770…the list is amazing. So there is no money to help us out!… Read more »
Letter has caused that almost nobody wants the elections you see the turnout all michichistim and only about 40 people from a cumminty of 3600 families
I dont agree with Rabbi Osdaba on almost all issues but theses clowns should not be running the neighborhood…
shame, embarrassment, embarrassed
hatred, loathing, abhorrence
totaly agree
I am embarrassed and ashamed! This is a farce!! Now that it has reached this level, I believe that there is no other alternative but to start from square 1. The Rabbonim are all Talmidei Chachomim in their own right but what does that help if they can’t get along and they don’t recognise each other’s right to practise as a Rov?!? They both need to do the right thing and step down. We need ONE Beis Din who can act in unison and work together for the benefit of the community. It is because the leadership is in shambles… Read more »
REB ZAKI TAMIR IS THE ONLY SERIOUS CANIDATE THAT CAN GET SOMETHING DONE. AND BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY. I HOPE THE CIRCUS WILL BE ENTERTAINING.
whoever wins, wins. Chanina can be an activist for the shchuna without the title, if it comes to that. His families money does not make him a shoo in for rosh…no matter what bullying tactics he likes to employ. hats off to Moishie who stood his ground!
As the Rebbes shchuna, no trimmed beards should be our representatives, not matter how qualified. This sends the wrong message to our children about trimming now being acceptable.
it kind of scary to look at these candidates i dont want to get personel against them but please can we do a little bit better for ourselves?
According to the number of people who attended this meeting, it is clear that there is a lack of interest from the community.
Perhaps the candidates need to do something about that or about themselves.
I have never laughed so hard as I did looking at these pictures. What a group!
Osdoba accuses his senior colleague Rabbi Yaakov Schwei
———
Senior? In age perhaps but Rav Osdoba goes back to the original Beis Din and Rav Schwei came later.
As for the whole thing – how apt that this was held in an elementary school classroom – all of these clowns are fighting like a bunch of second graders and therefore belong back in second grade.
I am enjoying the Circus.