Apr 22, 2015
My Son's Double-Edged Shlichus

From the COLlive inbox: A mother writes what happened to her son and his friend after working for a Shliach on campus.

By a mother

Im writing this letter since the summer is approaching and I would like both parents and bochurim to read this.

My son has gone through the system, excelling in enough areas to land him in one of the best Yeshivas. As the years progressed he went to help a Shliach whose many responsibilities didn't allow him time to be active on the local campus as well. So he had my son and his friend run programs for Jewish students there.

Perhaps naive of me, I wasn't too inquisitive about the nature of their activities. I was proud of him for helping bring people closer to Yiddishkeit. But with time, it become clear to me that a bochur regularly mingling with boys and girls his age, from a secular background, was having a negative effect on him.

The more I thought about it, the more dismayed I became. Here is a boy that has been able to stay on the up and up and was now being put in a situation that might affect him in the long run. As a young person, he was not an appropriate chaperone for others of his own age.

Baruch Hashem, and to my knowledge, nothing against halacha was committed by my son and his friend. But the impact, which I now hope and pray will not be lasting, was felt - even over the phone. When I raised the issue with the Shliach, he immediately dismissed any responsibility.

These experiences, had they been on a few occasions, I believe would be fine, and honestly, I am not so strict in these things. However, seeing the same people on a regular basis builds relationships that they have no experience with. Even a good bochur can be tempted. I dont believe we should test our children in this way.

I appreciate the opportunity to expose our children to all situations and it is a great learning experience. However, we must safeguard our children, as well.

When we send our boys/girls out to a Shliach, we have confidence that the Shliach will keep our childs well-being in mind. And if he can't do that, he should not hire bochurim. Or at least make it clear at the outset that they are on their own.

Perhaps it should be official policy of Merkos / Chabad on Campus that single bochurim and girls should not be operating on campus for a period of time without a Shliach directly supervising. Hatzalah, for example, only accepts married men into their volunteering service.

As the summer approaches please do not take for granted that the environment your teen is headed to is appropriate. Shluchim take note that we appreciate all that you do on the forefront, however we ask you to please think through the situations you put these young adults in, as well.



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Opinions and Comments
1
I was on Shlichus
I am a girl , I was hoping going on Shlichus was a holy shlichus , till I got there .
The Shliach tells my parents " we are not your Daughter Mashpia , We dont cater to their spiritual needs .
The Job I was given, is to teach Children , Goyim and Yidden alike .
Food to eat was not cared for properly , the Group of 4 girls suppose to share 100.00 a week .

The girls would hang out in Shopping malls till the wee hours at night (way past 11:00 PM)
Dear Parents !
Dont be fooled that your precious daughters are in a safe environment,under the label "Shlichus " they are not ! this is a business job, not shlichus . not one Sicha , Not one torah class , Not one farbrengen !!
Theses girls are afraid to talk because of severe punishment and name smearing by the Shlucha



(4/22/2015 9:01:03 PM)
2
I agree
My son went to work for a shaliach running a day camp, and was shocked to find out that he was supposed to supervise mixed swimming - the shaliach said the "sin was on him" so my son told him, good, then you can supervise them, because I won't.
Don't think just because there is a "shaliach" or "Chabad House" involved that the situation will be...should I say, hareidi? Chabadlite is everywhere today.
(4/22/2015 9:03:35 PM)
3
A Shlucha on campus
I couldn't agree more. I'd never put a bochur or a girl in the situation. Way too tough. Only marrieds couples should be a prescence on campus. Short stays like purim and pesach are one thing. But never longer than a yom tov. Thanks for bring it up.
(4/22/2015 9:08:35 PM)
4
So kind of you
to bring this to the attention of everyone now!

It makes no sense to me whatsoever to have Frum and/or Chassidush Bochurim hanging around campus's even with the Mivtzoim intention!!

Let's hope for change!
(4/22/2015 9:12:09 PM)
5
Anonymous
Ur right on what u said. And that's why if ur going to go to college or on campus shluchas while single u need to be well grounded so u shouldn't get affected or have temptations.
(4/22/2015 9:19:09 PM)
6
from a mother
Well said
your child is not the shliachs priority
(4/22/2015 9:19:11 PM)
7
As clear as day
What you are saying is as clear as day. Bochrim don't belong in taruvos settings. and "news flash" Young, even married men/rabbis don't belong teaching in seminary. We know that there are other more appropriate opportunities for both.
(4/22/2015 9:26:36 PM)
8
"shlichus"
The Rebbe used to send bochurim on shlichus to study in a yeshiva out of town.
Older bochurim go on a 3 week shlichus in the summer.
Then the Israelis came around who were sent to kvutzah a year younger than their peers would go on yeshiva shlichus. They had nowhere to go after that so they came up with "shlichut" which means you can be out of a yeshiva framework on some distant hole.
This is a post gimmel tamuz development and has nothing to do with representing the Rebbe which is what shlichus essentially is.
(4/22/2015 9:27:47 PM)
9
Bochur.
Thank you for this article. It is a hundred percent true, that's not getting into the double edged way unfortunately too many shluchim treat the bochurim which come to work for them .
(4/22/2015 9:44:51 PM)
10
agree
As a shliach myself i couldn't agree with u more
(4/22/2015 9:49:15 PM)
11
So happy you wrote this
Speaking from experience, you cannot regain a sensitivity towards things. At least not without really hard work. Pls think before choosing a shlichus as a single girl, however dynamic and amazing the shluchim are- they're not single. And they don't really remember how important it is all the time...
(4/22/2015 9:52:54 PM)
12
concerned parent
100%! definitely agree that as parents we have to look out for our kids and shluchim need to be attentive to this.
(4/22/2015 9:58:19 PM)
13
Shluchim's responsibility
Responsible campus shluchim ,and I know many of them, are very aware of the challenges a bochur or girl may face on campus. Consequently they do not casually have the young people come. When they do invite them or have merkoz shlichus bochorim they spend much time and effort to guide and supervise these well meaning sincere young people who don't always realize the challenges they may face on campus
(4/22/2015 10:01:18 PM)
14
So True
Thank you for writing!
(4/22/2015 10:06:07 PM)
15
This do NOT apply in the summer
Campus have off during the summer the mother speak for a long term in general
(4/22/2015 10:14:13 PM)
16
girls supervising teenage boys a year or 2 younger than them
Same problem. Maybe worse. Yet many shluchim have girls running such programs
(4/22/2015 10:19:00 PM)
17
Vague
It is really unclear what happened. Is this an over-reaction? Its hard to say because it is unclear what happened. Is this an appropriate response? Its hard to say because it is unclear what happened.
(4/22/2015 10:39:07 PM)
18
Can of worms
I think this is a big can of worms subject. Fact is it happens all over in ANY chabad house. Whether working for a summer, a year, a shabbos or visiting your cousins chabad house, your son or daughter will be in a very non crown heights environment. Fact is that shluchim in many cases are hiring or hosting people to work or volunteer, your child is not entering a controlled environment of a program. I'm not disagreeing with your article just pointing out that it pretty much just the way it is and probably will always be.
(4/22/2015 10:41:04 PM)
19
campus = pritzus
As a shliach on a campus I am aware of this fact: campus = pritzus, I only bring bochurim for short stints because I cannot take achryayus to have them develop a strong yachas with my students ON campus.
(4/22/2015 10:43:30 PM)
20
I disagree
I completely disagree. I think it's important and good for our young women and men to see that life isn't as sterile and black and white as their little yeshiva lives.
(4/22/2015 10:44:02 PM)
21
totally agree
Merkos Shlichus in the resort and beach locations aren't so great for the Neshama either (I' have heard from Bochurim who have been).

Thank you for writing. IYH something should change.
(4/22/2015 10:46:15 PM)
22
Anne of Green Gables
"It's all very well to say resist temptation, but it's ever so much easier to resist it if you can't get the key"
(4/22/2015 10:49:20 PM)
23
100% accurate
On pesach merkos shlichus, the Shiliach on our way running the minyan decided to make a sudden unanticipated stop at the groceries (not because he couldn't go later, rather for convenience), we ended up missing borchu, then 10 minutes into Davening he told me to please "hurry up there's a lot of responsibilities to do", I told him straight forward - I'm going to daven however long it takes.
(4/22/2015 10:52:04 PM)
24
dear # 1
Don't use your PERSONAL experience to say "Don't be fooled that your precious daughters are in a safe environment,under the label "Shlichus " they are not ! "

Because from my experience I would say the opposite.

Your right, some shluchim don't pay any attention to there spiritual needs, but there are far more that do.

Your making as if every boy or girl that go on shlichus, just become more chilled. That's absurd.
(4/22/2015 10:54:15 PM)
25
Hoping
Dearest Rabbi Kotlarsky and his dedicated staff have received or/and are aware of this issue
(4/22/2015 11:04:44 PM)
26
Parents be warned!
Well said. Parents beware. I had some fine children that were negatively affected in summer camp and then on shlichus and it caused a real downfall in their yiddishkeit, I am sad to say. Most teens are not equipped to remain strong.
(4/22/2015 11:06:58 PM)
27
"PARADOX"
Parents exert much effort to have a son attend an out-of town Yeshivah, and extend themselves financially. The reasoning is to follow the dictum " "- "
To then go and expose the bachur to negative outside influence is problematic
(4/22/2015 11:13:13 PM)
28
Can you post the guidelines the Rabbonim set up?
No girl counsellor should be supervising MIXED swimming, be counsellors over boys age 9...

Unfortunately many girls are stuck in real Halachic issues, and end up being over things for no reason.

(4/22/2015 11:13:14 PM)
29
please do NOT blame Shlichus
The concept of sending boys to campus for a YT was also unheard-of till the Rebbe. Your son should have a shiur chassidus and learn Rambam. The Shlichus on campus taught NO MORE then he has on his phone in his holy house in Monsey or where ever.
(4/22/2015 11:19:01 PM)
30
Chutzpah
What chutzpah for a shliach to put a bochur in the "line of fire"haipech haTorah and proclaim "it's on my shoulders"
I would disqualify this person from his shlichus!
(4/22/2015 11:21:32 PM)
31
18 yr olds with no driving experience
shluchim should not allow 18 yr old girls or boys
Drive others to and from their places
The driving is dangerous enough for grown ups
Young teens do not have enough road experience to drive children or others , I was 20 yrs old , the shliach had me drive to Toronto to pick up 25 campers and bring them to camp, I had very little road experience this was a big mistake for a shliach to put in danger 25 campers , do not let your precious children get a ride with anyone under 25
(4/22/2015 11:26:25 PM)
32
Think about it
Now imagine the nissayon of shluchims kids who go through this every day.
(4/22/2015 11:29:21 PM)
33
married shluchim need to b careful too
Especially with facebook where extremely inappropriate pics can be posted of the students or people they know
(4/22/2015 11:29:30 PM)
34
Guidelines
in our day and age there should be set guidelines & rules set by the Shluchim headquarters as what type of activities can be done by unmarried boys & girls They should be made known to both Shluchim and parents
(4/22/2015 11:29:49 PM)
35
The sultan of honesty
It is not my tendency to point out the obvious. But...

It seems as though your son has had his first glimpse of life out side of crown heights (or which ever community you are from). It would have happened eventually anyways. It's called life and people encounter things some good and some bad. You as a mother are as is normal worried that he might encounter something against what we believe and and make a devastating decision for the wrong. But don't think for a second that the way this endeavor has effected him is only because of the irresponsibility of the sheliach.

Contrary to the beliefs of this community regardless of how many years you spend in yeshiva being barred from the out side world us as free people eventually will see out side the box at some point or another.

Therefore it is important for the schools to educate our children the difference between whats right and wrong and not simply ban the bochrim from coming in contact with the offending article or situation!
(4/22/2015 11:38:15 PM)
36
we need to get back on track
my friend recently went on shlichus and she told me she was sooo surprised to see how the shluchim she worked for were conducting their lives..
It got to the point that she jokingly wondered if she was supposed to do shlichus on them. She eventually left since it became to uncomfortable for her.
(4/22/2015 11:41:32 PM)
37
CALLOUS
To say 'it is on my shoulders' that you do something not beseider is callous.
(4/22/2015 11:45:22 PM)
38
A shliach
No bochhrim or single girls should be going on campus, at all.
(4/23/2015 12:07:48 AM)
39
To #36
Bravo!
(4/23/2015 12:07:58 AM)
40
To# 35
I disagree,because the shluchim have to bear in mind "Lifnei iveir LO SITAIN MICHSHOIL"-PERIOD!!!
They MUST set their rules and standards al pi Halacha NO MATTER WHAT!-even if it inconveniences them.They could certainly overcome this laxity, for 'ein lecho dovor ho'omeid bifnei ho'rotzoin', as the the Rebbe wrote to me in my first (out of many)corrospondence(s back in the 'chof''s(60's).
(4/23/2015 12:21:26 AM)
41
soldiers go to the front line
AFTER IS TRAINED !!!!!

IF is before is shfichus Domim , and there is no need to say that before 3 tamuz no body went before marriage to a shlichus Job position for so long in the same place ( and if did happened was speciall people )
(4/23/2015 12:37:11 AM)
42
campus
Welcome to Shloma Carlbach world
(4/23/2015 12:39:50 AM)
43
safety for counselors in day camp
My sister and friends had to go by public transportation not through best neighberhoods. Directors have to take responsibility.
(4/23/2015 12:49:58 AM)
44
To #35
There is a huge difference between "seeing the world" and being directly with programs, interactions and discussions with the same people over and over- forging feelings and inappropriate friendships. Duh.
(4/23/2015 1:06:04 AM)
45
The sultan of honesty
To# 40

I agree with you that sheluchim must behave in a responsible manner and i would also agree that allowing or requesting of a frum bocher to run an event on campus is irresponsible. But it is just as important to understand that persistently attempting to avoid any contact between reality and your child is abundantly similar to a alcoholic who continuously avoids confronting his pain and misfortunes through drinking.
(4/23/2015 1:06:50 AM)
46
Agree with #34
#34 cuts through to the ikur, exactly.
(4/23/2015 1:38:14 AM)
47
#27 complete "am haratzus"
The "makor" for learning out of town is from gear shabbos daf 9 amud 2 in tosfos at the bottom
the gemara disccuses about releasing your belt before eating how that's how they would do it in eretz Israel

so asks tosfos why where they discussing the minhagim of eretz Israel why they should have been discussing the minhagim of bavel? answers tosfos that since the custom was to travel out of town to learn in for they would gain more then from being at home, so therefore in bavel they taught everything according to the minhagim of eretz yisroel and in eretz yisroel like bavel
from here we see a makor in shas based of rishonim for learning out of town!
So before you say something make sure to look it over first!
(4/23/2015 1:53:15 AM)
48
Single bochurim
I live afar on shlichus. One of our community members asked me about a particular bochur that was on shlichus whom she was quite close to at Y.... Today this bochur is not on the straight and narrow. The effect it must have had on him from what i understand was huge.
College/ University shlichus is NOT a place for a Lubavitcher bochur. Something MUST change.
(4/23/2015 1:56:01 AM)
49
innerperspective
I agree 100%- and its not just on campus- its many shichus'n involving the community, its many many summer day camps, its helping out a Shliach during his community Friday Night meals, etc. As a Bochur with pretty high standards, i can tell you first hand that I myself have been in many avoidable uncomfortable/ borderline un-tznius situations many times over the past few years, and I cringe when some of my peers try convincing themselves that some improper Mivtzoim experiences were really ok and fine.
Unfortunately, some of the best directors running the best day camps don't have an inkling as to what some of their staff are up to during free hours, and i embarrassed to say that i know for a fact that this applies to those in charge of male staff, and female staff as well.
You don't have to believe me if you don't want to, and ill leave some details to your imagination, but in areas where there are many chabad day camps in close range of each other, every summer there are organized non- spontaneous meet ups of Bocherim and girls- some lichatchila in extremely un-tznius settings.
And this happens as well between boys and girls working on 'community shlichus'n' as well.
Some of you are thinking that im living in the clouds, but do your research, and you'll find out that this activity hasn't only happened once to one person.
parents, michanchim, directors, shluchim, boys and girls, make sure you do your part in making sure that this doesnt continue under your watch.
(4/23/2015 2:03:19 AM)
50
Israel shluchis
Many guys who go on shluchis in Israel, their parents think they are such tzadikkim but if they only know what really goes on!
(4/23/2015 4:12:32 AM)
51
Relatable but not always true..
Yes, of course campus will be the type of environment where negative influences lurk at every turn. Re camps and the like, I agree with the sentiments above about the roles of the counselors being appropriate for them and their Yiddishkeit. Speaking from my own experiences, I worked for a Chabad House for a summer, and it was the best summer I've yet to have. The shliach was very available to us, we had shiurim and farbrengens, and the day to day activities which we were responsible for in the capacity of working for the Chabad House didn't adversely affect our Chassidishkeit in the slightest.
(4/23/2015 4:23:01 AM)
52
As a student...
This mother is absolutly correct. Campus is not a place for a chassidishe person who is not married. It's a very tough environment. Yes people should be exposed to people in the world and not live in a bubble but campus is too extreme. Mivtzoyim is enough exposure!
(4/23/2015 4:31:42 AM)
53
Mother
Oh, the stories I could tell! The experiences some of my kids on Shlichus (not to mention summers!) would make your hair curl.
(4/23/2015 4:34:23 AM)
54
Loving the comments...
And now for mine:
I am a girl on shlichus now. My shlichus is very different than what most girls do, and is kinda similar to a campus (not exactly, but that's what I'd compare it to).
I agree with this article.
BH I have my mashpia and family making sure I stay in the right place but I will not deny that there are definitely times when it's tough and I get uncomfortable.
I love my job, bH, but it is something to be aware of. I'm not saying not to get a job like mine, on the contrary, go for it! BUT make sure your head is in the right place and you're going in with people who love you standing "on your back". And like they say in sem, make sure to raise your standards super high before going anywhere and iyH, your shlichus will be awesome!
(4/23/2015 5:57:55 AM)
55
HELP
all this mother proved was that her excellent son has no personal inner strength. I always took pride in the fact that as a Lubavitcher I and my children had the inner strength and conviction to be able to go "out there" to bring others closer and yet know who I am representing. And B"H neither I nor any of my children were ever negatively affected. On the contrary, we became stronger. Perhaps her son should remain locked in one of those"excellent" yeshivas totally unexposed from the ( crazy) outside real world where he can sit and "shteig" in his little insular learning world. As shluchim, my children grew up with college kids in our home every shabbos and never in their wildest imaginations did they think maybe they don't need to wear a yaulka or tzitzis or my girls wear sleeveless or shorts! They knew who they were and B"H today are shluchim themselves. Unfortunately, it's the local unexposed younger people who never saw shluchim that are drifting away. THE PARENTS HAVE TO SHAPE UP AND S T O P. SHOWING THEIR CHILDREN THEIR OWN DOUBLE STANDARD!!!!!!!
(4/23/2015 6:30:43 AM)
56
the rebbe told
reb david raskin that bochurim should not go for mivtzayim on campus!
(4/23/2015 7:44:57 AM)
57
There is a middle ground
The answer is not to curl up into ourselves and become insular. Perhaps there should be better screening and guidelines on both ends. Thousands of young bochurim and women have managed to help shluchim without being affected in the way described in some comments. Maybe it's that I grew up on shlichus myself, but personally nothing ever 'fazed me' . It's all about having strong roots and good chinuch holding you in your place.
(4/23/2015 7:52:50 AM)
58
La creme de la creme
It is surprising when eextremely chassidish shluchim take the"best"boys on merkaz shlichus in the summer and place them on a "beach". Maybe the shluchim are oisgeton foon oilomhaze.....
(4/23/2015 7:56:36 AM)
59
so true
everything this mother is saying is correct i couldnt agree with you more
(4/23/2015 8:01:03 AM)
60
Correct however...
There are shiluchim who are so careful about this issue that even when they have a boys and girls camp one doesn't even know of the other because the shiluchim are on top of it!
That's what camp I went to and it was a day camp for 2 months!
(4/23/2015 8:01:10 AM)
61
only good news
well writen
i wish you that your son will become a great shliach and take this experience to strenght his chassidishkait
(4/23/2015 8:23:16 AM)
62
Agree with 29
On the flip side..... What about Shluchim who raise their kids in these "places" and the kids grow up thinking "I can't wait to be in crown height where everyone is like me" and then they go to crown heights for high school and yeshiva and ALAS!!! "Not everyone IS like me". And then the Shluchim parents who were moser nefesh all those years have to explain to their kids why the tznius and the achdus etc is so lacking! What should they say to them?? The writer has a point but how did her son survive crown heights all those years??
(4/23/2015 8:37:41 AM)
63
Positive Experience
I B"H had a very positive experience on Shlichus. We had a weekly shiur and the shluchim were chassidishe examples. They took really good care of us. You need to do proper research as with anything. For me I grew and gained so much.
(4/23/2015 8:48:56 AM)
64
#47 - " Am Aratzus" ?
Don't be so serious and fast to judge. This was just a well known "vertel" regarding going out of town to learn. Next time either take a chill pill or write your name if you want to show off lomdus..
(4/23/2015 8:52:48 AM)
65
I didnt let my son go
A few years ago my son was offered a position on campus and I told him it was a bad idea! As a woman of the world and with awareness of what goes on in universities, I knew the implications and CV"S damage that such a shlichus could do to a young mind. After reading this article, I am sooo happy I listened to my instincts!!
Many people are clueless as to what goes on at college. Teenagers are finally free from parents and let loose, big time! Not good influences on a young bochurs mind! I have unfortunately seen my fair share of bochurim who have "modernized" in their early 20's, to know that temptation doesnt end at 20!
May we be blessed to only see yiddishe and chassidishe nachas from all the young men and women in our community!!!!
(4/23/2015 8:56:52 AM)
66
Agree 100%
A Bocher should never be involved in Campus Shlichus before married, I don't really understand how can be a Bocher running a whole operation for students boys and girls and no one tries to help him to get out of there.
(4/23/2015 9:00:36 AM)
67
shlichus
The Rebbe. I am told, did not sanction single chassidim to attend college. The environment now is even worse. If you grew up on shlichus you are protected because the Rebbe said he would protect you. You didn't necessarily succeed because you are great and solid but because the Rebbe carried you on his shoulders. Being exposed to the world is one thing, immersing before marriage is another
I agree with this mother.
(4/23/2015 9:04:39 AM)
68
#33 I agree
Being 'friends' with Chabad house or campus people could
Be very untznius re the types of pictures that go up
(4/23/2015 9:11:24 AM)
69
lmsw
this is not about inner strength you dont put an obstacle before a blind person the shliach has a responsibility to watch over the shluchim he hires i had a terrible experience with a daughter now my children do not go unless i know the shliach is erlich and responsible himself
(4/23/2015 9:18:58 AM)
70
lifelight 2
We are forbidden to put ourselves in a position of nisayon.

We say every morning in brochos: Lo l'yedai nisayon, v'Lo l'yedai bisayon!

UNMARRIED YOUNG PEOPLE DO NOT belong on college campuses for ANY reason. The Rebbe would never agree to shluchim or anyone else doing this for any period of time, and certainly not boys.

Going to read Megillah even ONE time is even risky.

Lo Sasuru Acharei l'vavechem, v'acharei eineihem.

One glance is all it takes for some.......
(4/23/2015 9:21:11 AM)
71
No better time for it
If at the age of 20+ a boy or a girl aren't aware and prepare to deal with the real world out there, i doubt if they will be able to do it in older age. There is no better age to experience it then when your'e at that age and still full and strong with all of what you've learn't.
(4/23/2015 9:33:01 AM)
72
Yeshivah Shlichus
Nevermind the summer. 80% of the bochurim's Shlichus is a baby sitting service for the local Shliach....How on earth can these places take bochurim and not have a Rosh Yeshiva & Mashpia??????????????????????? That's the massive leak in the boat that needs immediate attention.
(4/23/2015 9:33:41 AM)
73
#55 have some Kavod for those who learn
Have some kavod foe those who will be your rav in ten years people who dedicate there lives to learning
why the derogatory "shtaig"
this shows more on how lubavitchers have NO kavod for Torah and those who learn it
like no respect for rabbis and teacher saying their first name and the like i have never heard lubavitchers calling the rav by rabbi all i hear is his last name
open up the hakdama for kuntres eitz chaim where the fridiker rebbe said we learn kavod for rabbnim and Torah from minhagim
(4/23/2015 9:50:34 AM)
74
my daughter had an excellent experience
It is our responsibility as parents to thoroughly research where we send our children....whether it is to school, friends, family, vacation and/or shlichus......no matter their age, boy or girl....my daughter had an excellent experience for a year on Shlichus in Colorado... they were Dugmah Chayos, and inspirational. I did my job too....even though she is old enough to go on shlichus...I kept a close eye on every aspect of her experience and watched as she grew in all areas in her life. I would do it again......Parents we need to be Parents!
(4/23/2015 10:13:12 AM)
75
#66
Total agree with you
(4/23/2015 10:19:37 AM)
76
TO #55
As a mother, I find the arrogant tone of your comment very cruel and lacking in Ahavas Yisroel. The winds are blowing and you have been very blessed to not have had children or grandchildren who have been tested AS OF YET. To mock this mother - who is obviously suffering - by stating that "her excellent son has no personal inner strength" just shows that you are lacking in personal inner empathy. As discussed here on COL recently, the halachos of Yichud were given to us by the One who created us & knows our weaknesses and struggles because he created them as well ! As is all too clear, people fall right here in Crown Heights too, no matter what their last name is or how truly upstanding their home was. I can only imagine the pain that comment #55 caused this mother that wrote the article. I think the author of this comment should get real and do some soul-searching at their ability to be so mean.
(4/23/2015 10:20:36 AM)
77
Yes it's true
The majority of Shluchim today approach this in the way it works best for them, because it is about their Shlichus. The spiritual welfare of the bochur or bochura is not a priority.
(4/23/2015 10:30:40 AM)
78
I see the light
Thank you everyone for opening my eyes! It is certainly much better that rather than bochurim going on Merkos shlichus to resort towns they should instead be in crown heights for the summer--where the mode of dress is worse than the resorts towns. And certainly it is much better for a bochur to be "learning" in 770 I.e. Sleeping all day without anyone knowing where he is or what he's doing than to chas veshalom be on shlichus as a bochur and actually do something constructive. Speaking as a bochur who spent over a year on campus there is something called everyone brings in their own baggage and their own issues and a person who wants to find things to do wrong when they're meant to be doing something else can and will do so anywhere. And while it's true that we must be careful not to put ourselves in hard situations, nevertheless, the rebbe taught us that rather than saying we do what we have to do and when we do it with the proper mindset we will not be harmed.
(4/23/2015 10:56:26 AM)
79
Please COL share this
The answer to most the Issues being discussed here Maybe

Rebbe Rashab says in Mamamer Hacholtzu "Sinah Machmas Kinah ail lo Takonoh"Hatred out of jealousy cannot be fixed.

Please Do not take this opportunity to bash the Rebbe's soldiers living a life one will never understand unless one has lived it themselves.

Wishing only good and simchas for all.
(4/23/2015 10:56:50 AM)
80
Bubby K
#55
Take your head out of the sand and stop fooling yourself! Would you give your 9 year old access to your car keys?

We daven every morning that the Ribbono shel Olam keep us away from nisyanos. The nisyonos that teenage bochurim are put into are way too strong for them.

A good parent protects his children.
(4/23/2015 11:06:53 AM)
81
To #55
If you only knew me. I have not sheltered my kids from the outside world, as I say in the article that running programs once in a while would not bother me. But to put a child in a situation where he is supposed to build relationships with teens his own age? Why don't you read the article before you jump all over it. And what if i were running a sheltered home, all the better. However, we need to know the limitations of human young adults.
(4/23/2015 11:38:50 AM)
82
To # 70
You could not have put it any better !!
A big yasher koach !
(4/23/2015 12:11:25 PM)
83
with the old breed
did your son learn at all during his time there? Our whole education system is broken. when the biggest sin is to send your child to a non Chabad school we are in trouble. It is not 1950 anymore and things can change.
(4/23/2015 12:12:50 PM)
84
This is sad.
We can't hide our kids. They need to be armed with practical spiritual tools and real knowledge of the emes. There is nothing but Hash-m. The Besht's father told him to "fear nothing but Hash-m himself..." and this is the foundation of chassidus. There is nothing but G-d, so fear nothing else.
This whole thing is a list of everyone's fears of their kids going out and becoming frei.
If you don't want you kids to frei out, the solution is not to hide them from the world. It's impossible. Soone ror later they will be exposed, married or not.
The answer is to do everything you can to make sure they are armed with facts and with emes. Chassidus gives us these tools and this information. It teaches us how to apply it. Use it, This is why our generation has chassidus. Because we need it to be able to stand strong in the face of these most powerful lies: materialism, immorality, dishonesty.
The answer to bochurim's taavos is not to hide them from it. We have to learn how to deal with our own natures. I'm not saying to send bochurim into clubs and frat parties on campus. I'm saying that if their going for the right reasons, for the Rebbe's shlichus, and they know the truth about life and about Hash-m, then there is nothing to worry about.

The problems arise when our bochurim and meidelach don't know the truth about who they are, and so when they are faced with the difficulties of the world, they don't know that the allure is a complete lie. They don't know that what they have been given is the best of the best, and there is nothing better out there. And that is our job. To teach our children that what we have is the best, not because we're better than everyone, but because it's emes. And our kids need to know this for themselves, not because we shove it down their throats. They know because they apply the Torah that our Rebbeim gave us, and they see that it works, and they see with their own two eyes, that there is nothing better than doing Hash-m's Will and fulfilling His kavana.
If our children know this, then why would they ever want all of the garbage that's waiting out there on campus? They won't, they will want to bring what they have and share it with all of the poor, suffering lost neshamas who are out there in the dark. This is what the Rebbe wants from us. This is why the Rebbe sends us out into the world. Because we need to know the truth and bring it to other people.

If your children aren't equipped to do that, then stop blaming other people, stop blaming the shluchim and the system and blah blah blah. If your children can't do that, that's your business to attend to, not anybody else's.

I'm sure this sounds harsh and nobody likes to accept these things, but reality is reality and sooner or later we all will have to face it. There is no hiding from it. It's dark and grub, and it's our job to go deal with it and reveal the truth within it.
Teach your kids the truth and there will be nothing to fear.
(4/23/2015 12:13:51 PM)
85
to #55
You are evidently unaware of what male hormones do when encountering real-life pritzus, more plentiful than any street (CH or elsewhere) and more real than the iphone, and more upfront than all, because that is who you are interfacing with throughout the day. And why would a good bochur have more inner strength than Bruria?

Just curious as to whether you know why halacha requires marriage at age 18? The singular permission for delaying is shteiging in Torah!

Just maybe the Chachomim knew human nature . . . and did not preach "inner strength."
(4/23/2015 12:36:06 PM)
86
Comment to story in #2
The shliach was quoted saying "the sin is on me".So i am asking a rhetoric question:Can we ,by any stretch of our imagination point out to such a 'so called' shliach and declare:"Shluchoi shel odom kemoisoi"??!!--AVADEH NISHT !!!
(4/23/2015 12:38:55 PM)
87
Innerperspective
For those that argue that keeping your kids away from the real world is harmful etc, I will tell you that in case you have never gone on mivtzoim or the like, without intentionally coming to it, you experience the real life- and hopefully will build a firewall against it.
You don't need to show your children or introduce them to the pritzus which goes on around them- they will see it themselves, and if they are seeing it when they are on the attack- doing outreach etc, they will learn how to deal with it. If they are walking into it specifically, even doing outreach in inappropriate settings according to where they are up to in life, they won't learn to build a firewall against it- they will chas v'shalom be affected by their surroundings.
I'm sure there have been Bochurim or girls who have been in tough settings and haven't buckled - but it's a select crowd. Most of us are of the human nature, and when we are put In situations stronger than ourselves, it'll almost always leave some stains.
So this Bochur is normal, and wasn't able to judge properly how strong his surroundings will be against his weapons against it.
(4/23/2015 12:41:34 PM)
88
How is Shlichus location different from crown heights
Don't be naive and suggest, that pritzuz issues are problematic ,when our children ,leave our neighborhood. Wake up and smell the coffee,it's diabollicle right here, our children are just as easily exposed ,right on our own streets
(4/23/2015 1:11:45 PM)
89
Im a campus Shliach
I had my teen girl(s) do tabling Mivtzoim ON CAMPUS ONCE. AND THAT WAS THE LAST TIME!!!. #56 wrote The REBBE told R dovid Raskin that bachurim should not go on mivtsoim on campus. Finished. End of story,. to #84 I learn with my kids nigle and chsidus.. they BH know very well who they are etc...they r BH very good kids. but to put them in the lions den ? Clear from the Rebbe not to

(4/23/2015 1:35:32 PM)
90
To # 80
Everything you mentioned is fine and dandy,but you must be on a very high plane of kedusha to conform with such elite standards.Please bear in mind what the Frierdiker Rebbe N"E wrote in Kovetz Michtovim in the back of Tehllim in regards to AVROHOM OVINU,and quoted Moshe Rabbeinu saying to the talmidim he taught :"you should know that "Gam guf kodosh bossor hu"!
(4/23/2015 1:49:40 PM)
91
#84 Best Comment of All
My parents brought me up the way you wrote. I see the problem when "good" parents are themselves afraid of "all the world out there has to offer" (only narishkeit and grubkeit), and then of course their kids go exploring in filth...
(4/23/2015 2:44:46 PM)
92
my kids are campus shluchim
They absolutely refuse to take Bochurim - even for a Shabbos off. They said it is not the environment for bochurim (or girls) to be. In fact, they wouldn't even let my son, the shliach's brother in law, come to stay.
(4/23/2015 3:44:33 PM)
93
#84
very true
(4/23/2015 5:01:39 PM)
94
to #18
crown height environment?!?! u wanna live in your own little bubble forever?! and by the way, crown heights has its problems, too, bochrim and girls alike. need for explanation on that? I think its kinda clear.

and when growing up on shlichus, you are constantly being reminded of who you are what you're doing. you grow up aware, and don't run in to these problems. Not because they are used to it, but because they know what to look out for, even the younger kids. it is NOT all Chabad houses doing this, though I do agree that some do and it is unacceptable.
(4/23/2015 5:11:05 PM)
95
The Elephant in the Room
Why are we not addressing the elephant in the room? The Rebbe - nishomoh klolis for all of klal Yisroel - sent Shluchim to help the unaffiliated. To facilitate sharing our royal heritage, to be mikabel ol malchus shmayim, to the tinokes shnishba that don't stand a chance without the Shluchim. He did not appoint Shluchim to be mashpiim, dugma choyas, or moreh horah for chasidim. If we put a shliach on a pedastal, we have no one to blame but ourselves. They are on the frontlines focusing on their mission and shouldn't have to worry about what kind of influence they are making on bochurim or bochurois. I admire the US forces and the IDF for keeping our homeland and the state of Israel safe and strong. I do not, however, accept them as my role models or the mashpiim for my children.

by, the by, the Shliach who left comment 89 is a star. I hope my children have the opportunity to meet you and learn from you.

If we want to steer our children to Torah Chayim, we need to look no further than Rabonim and Mashpiim that dedicate their lives to our youth. No need to send our children to exotic countries or universities, these Giants can be convinently found within the four walls of your local Tomchei Tmimim or Beis Rivkah.
(4/23/2015 6:30:12 PM)
96
shluchim be mkarev the shluchim
As my father ohv" prophetically would say 30 years ago "We are going to have to send shluchim to be mkarev the shluchim.". We didn't get it then. Nor did we like when he didn't allow us to work in day camps. Woe was to anyone caught listening to a sicha without sitting and listening properly..
(4/23/2015 6:33:43 PM)
97
i went to a gan izzy
And there was a college student that tried to become our friend and my parents called the shliach 1. He threatented to send me home 2. He lied to my parents 3. If people call me and ask if they should go there I will tell them no even if u hear that last summer was crazy still call the girls that went there the summer before
(4/23/2015 7:28:53 PM)
98
95 should be the last comment.
95 says it all. That is all there is to know.
I agree 100%
(4/23/2015 7:56:22 PM)
99
shlichus
The Rebbe. I am told, did not sanction single chassidim to attend college. The environment now is even worse. If you grew up on shlichus you are protected because the Rebbe said he would protect you. You didn't necessarily succeed because you are great and solid but because the Rebbe carried you on his shoulders. Being exposed to the world is one thing, immersing before marriage is another
I agree with this mother.
(4/23/2015 8:04:13 PM)
100
similar problem
I see a similar problem with all the youth coming into CH for Tishrei. Many are unsupervised and all kinds of things are going on that may not be desirable and less likely to happen while living at home. .
(4/23/2015 8:43:54 PM)
101
To the people reading
To those who have not spent time on a college campus, you all can have no opinion. You have no idea what is it like to try and swim against tye stream even if your a good swimmer. Being married is like having a boat and many men to row. Single means just that single. And so the readers who have spent time on a campus. You all agree. It's not the right place.
(4/23/2015 9:20:32 PM)
102
Kol haKavod to Collive!
Thank you for printing this very important letter from a very brave mother! She is not alone and you publishing her letter gives others with this same concern the courage to stand up and say/do what is right. Yasher Koach!!!
(4/23/2015 9:36:11 PM)
103
Your the mother
Everybody knows what goes on on Campus. Don't be so in the ground. You should not have let him go. Don't blame the Shluchim. Because all the garbage that goes on on the streets of Ch is exactly what the Rebbe wanted????
(4/23/2015 10:34:05 PM)
104
mixed camps!
why is it okay to have both and girl counselors!?!? as much as they say its separate its NOT.....coming from experience
(4/23/2015 11:33:05 PM)
105
Moshiach Now
After all that was thoughtfully discussed and aired above,we need Moshiach now bepoiel mamosh.Then all will culminate with a happy ending!
Thank you COLLIVE for hosting such an important panel.
(4/24/2015 12:09:26 AM)
106
to #89
right on!! I couldn't agree more with your comment!!
Putting an unmarried child in a lion's den is irresponsible, sickening and dangerous!!!
(4/24/2015 4:10:49 AM)
107
I run a Camp
to # 104. that's why I hire girls and yungelite NOT BACHURIM although it costs much more
(4/24/2015 8:20:51 AM)
108
What's worth
If they cannot handle the world, then what is worth all of what they learnt before in Chassidus? You think it's all just to have knowledge, it's for using it out!!
(4/24/2015 9:26:11 AM)
109
To #108
You probably forgot what we daven for in Birchois Hashacar:"V'al tvieini...lidei NISOYOIN"!.
You are forbidden to 'railroad' yourself to an unnecessary test....
(4/24/2015 3:00:36 PM)
110
Thank you "a mother"
A girl went to a frum Chassidish shliach as a counselor. She was supposed to go into the pool with the kids. She refused to go in because she was afraid of a dog that was roaming around the pool area. The shliach who shouldn't have been at the pool if the girl counselors were supposed to be in there with the kids, pushed her in to teach her a lesson. And had a meltdown in front of the campers and counselors about her not doing what she should be doing.
(4/24/2015 3:56:24 PM)
111
What the Rebbe wrote very clearly
In Likutei Sichos vol 15 page 44, the Rebbe added 4 paragraphs in his holy handwriting (that was not said at the Farbrengen).
Following is a free English translation (of 3 paragraphs):

"IN JUST ABOUT ALL [COLLEGES AND UNIVERSITIES] THE BOUNDARIES OF SHAME AND TZNIUS HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY BROKEN DOWN, SO MUCH SO THAT THEY LAUGH AND RIDICULE THOSE WHO TAKE IT INTO ACCOUNT. ON THE CONTRARY (ACCORDING TO THEM), THE MORE VULGAR, THE BETTER, ETC.

THE TERRIBLE SITUATION ON CAMPUSES, IN THE DORMITORIES, LEISURE AREAS, ETC, IS INFAMOUS, AND THERE IS NO NEED TO DISCUSS AT LENGTH SOMETHING SO DISTRESSING, ESPECIALLY WHEN IT IS TO SUCH AN AWFUL EXTENT.

THE FAMOUS "ARGUMENT" THAT IT WON'T HARM HIM (OR HER) AND HE OR SHE WILL BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND THE TEST, ETC - HAS AN EQUALLY FAMOUS AND SIMPLE RESPONSE: A TZADIK GOMUR (PERFECTLY RIGHTEOUS PERSON) EVEN ON THE LAST DAY OF HIS 120 YEARS ON THIS WORLD, IN THE BEGINNING OF DAY AND BEFORE HIS PRAYERS, REQUESTS FROM HASHEM "DO NOT BRING ME TO A TEST". THERE IS PLENTY MORE TO BE SAID, BUT HERE IS NOT THE PLACE".

It is clear, that for sure a single bochur or girl does not belong on a college campus at all!
(4/24/2015 4:16:28 PM)
112
lets look at another angle here
as a shidduch coach i am concerned about the number of bochrim having way too many nisyonos AND getting married late because they are having such a blast on shlichus that they are in no hurry at all to settle down to a regular routine and more stringent life.and they are probably making comparisons that are to the detriment of married life. perhaps it should be a rule that only married couples go on shlichus , and that would help the bochrim stay on track in yeshiva and get married before becoming confused by the more exposed shlichus experiences
(4/25/2015 5:52:46 PM)
113
#112 agree with you
my nephew went on shluchus to an exotic island and the last pictures i've seen of him not sure his wearing tzitzis anymore:(
(4/26/2015 2:45:03 AM)
114
Mixed crowd at Crown Heights Shabbos tables
Why blame the shaliach or focus on campus shlichus?! The EXACT problem takes place in many homes in Crown Heights which invite boys and girls. It is worse because there are less differences between the boys and girls. They are interacting and intermingling in MANY homes EVERY shabbos! So cut out blaming shluchim and shlichus and look in a mirror in your own backyard!!
(4/26/2015 10:19:22 PM)
115
Interesting halocho Hilchos Talmud Torah concerning bochurim
The Alter Rebbe in Hilchos Talmud Torah chapter 1 says:
" One who isn't married or his wife is in another city sould not be a melamed of small children because their mothers bring their children to school and his yetzer horah will be incited".
Sound too machmir? Look it up and see for yourself. Then apply it here.
(4/27/2015 1:07:40 AM)
116
Merkos policy
Above comments presume that parents have control over where there boys and girls want to go. The issue is that Merkos allows Shluchim to bring unmarried boys and girls against the Rebbe's explicit instructions
(4/27/2015 1:11:37 AM)
117
did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus
Just looking at the way women were dressed made me want to throw up. I don't think it was a good idea for me to go there.
(4/27/2015 9:11:24 AM)
118
did table Mivztoim as a bochur on campus
Just looking at the way women were dressed made me want to throw up. I don't think it was a good idea for me to go there.
(4/27/2015 1:43:20 PM)
119
A disillusioned Parent
I wish there was better guidelines for Shluchim to follow
regarding having young children in thier employ.
I can't forget some of my children's " memorable"
experiences.
- driving a car with bad brakes
- driving a car and having ONE of the four bad tires BLOW
out on the highway!
Living in an apartment in a bad neighborhood with a door that
didn't lock
Vi' chulu, vi'chulu vi' chulu
A
My children had amazing , beautiful, Shlichus experiences,
B H!
Too bad , these bad apples are the ones that ruined the
positive experiences.!
(4/27/2015 8:18:18 PM)
120
Concerned Parent
Imagine if :
Every Shliach was rated post camp experience on such topics as
Safety. ( safe vehicles given to counsellors )
Kashrus
Tznius issues
Menshlichkeit
Honesty
etc.

What a difference that would make!!!!!

Thank you COL for facilitating this thought provockingl
(4/28/2015 12:51:39 AM)
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