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Thursday, 27 Adar I, 5784
  |  March 7, 2024

Grow Up and Face the Facts

A long-time teacher in Crown Heights responds to the teenage girl who complained about micro-managing in schools. Full Story

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Sara Leah Overlander, 53, OBM

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Attention teachers
February 1, 2013 2:16 am

I believe a macheneches shouldnt be feared and someone who screams at you for not doing whats right, but someone that helps you get thru it and you go to her for advice and when your called into her office you feel comfortable venting to her. All those teachers that made comments like students shouldnt be allowed to comment and write articles are the reasons WHY students have to write articles on COL to get their view noticed. I plan on changing the teacher stereotype of being the enemy and i suggest while you teachers are in the position you… Read more »

There are two ways to do things....
January 29, 2013 8:20 pm

There are two get a child to do something. Tell them to or tell them not to.

……out of Love or Fear

To # 73
January 25, 2013 3:31 pm

No. She doesn’t right against rules, she wright’s against being Micro-managed.
Again no like rules but that’s not what were talking about

umm, true, but not always
January 24, 2013 6:26 pm

yor articel is true, but you do have to admit that some teachers dont know where to stop, when hey rgoing too far. teachers have know idea the kind of longterm damage they can do by shutting a kid up. of, course, they do allot of good, but theres 2 sides to the coin

Teenagers are not children, they are young adults
January 24, 2013 11:15 am

Teenagers can get married, they can go to the Tzhal and make life or death decisions – you don’t give an Uzi to a child. Please remember that teens are NOT children. That is the most fundamental flaw in this “mechanechas” attitude. How would this author feel if she was treated as a child?!

I think this is NOT
January 24, 2013 12:53 am

comig from a caring place and is just immature….like srsly? GROW UP? yep..deffinitaly ganna make us wanna grow up…….

to #83
January 23, 2013 8:32 am

Sometimes what doctors do doesn’t work. Often this happens and the doctor doesn’t know what else to do so he just keeps on doing it, unwilling or unable to admit that he is failing. It is the patient’s right to say “this is not working”.

Teachers...
January 22, 2013 10:56 pm

This is the kind of reponse that made the girl write that in the first place.

To #83
January 22, 2013 5:39 pm

It’s not only this one student, the author of the article. We see from the comments that many students have these negative feelings. And yes, I was a student and also a teacher for about 15 years.When I once told a parent that I felt I wasn’t getting thru to her daughter (later she was evaluated – learning disabilities) she said at least she feels you care about her. She did not feel so with her other teachers. It is the difficult, rebellious students who need more of your love and care. And yes, it IS possible to make them… Read more »

The real moshol
January 22, 2013 7:58 am

No, #83. You have it wrong. Let’s say a teenage girl gets sick, is hospitalized, and is given a medication that makes her feel worse. She told the doctor she takes a certain vitamin pill every day, but that doctor, a typical overburdened and undertrained hospital house officer, did not listen to her or write it on her chart. He prescribes a certain medication for her, and since the hospital pharmacy doesn’t know she uses a vitamin that reacts with it, they send it up and she gets her injection. She feels something is really not right, so she rings… Read more »

From a teacher AND a student.
January 22, 2013 12:25 am

How many of you, commentors, are teachers or educators? I don’t mean that you have subbed a class or two, i mean that you have devoted your life to teaching and educating. Here’s a fitting parallel: Let’s say the original article was about a teenager that needed to take medicine for something very serious and otherwise detrimental. Let’s say that teenager was complaining that she didn’t want to take her medicine and was mad at the medical staff for micromanaging her for it; she doesn’t want to take the medicine, it’s her body after all. She can’t possibly fully understand… Read more »

to 81
January 21, 2013 10:17 pm

i agree with you. i meant in terms of trying hard, all students should get a chance to shine. i posted a comment recently, and apparently col decided not to post it. i think that this teacher is wrong. i will say it in short: the teacher may be right in terms of herself. but, even if she trys so hard, in the end it is the students choice weather or not she wants to follow what the teacher said. a teacher can say do this, but the student will do something else. rules are good, they set your role… Read more »

To #78
January 21, 2013 8:40 pm

I don’t think we are asking for equality, after all–true equality is never possible as we are all blessed with different strengths. What we are asking for are teachers who are compassionate and perceptive enough to notice(especially the quiet ones) and therefore nurture and encourage every student to bring out his/her full potential. Once the love is there, and the student feels it, everything else will fall into place. If there is no soil, nothing can grow.

LOL
January 21, 2013 7:37 pm

#78….funny!!!!

To #77
January 21, 2013 7:01 pm

The issue is not “rules” – it is the “micro-managing” of students, or simply put – over-ruling rules on top of rules, just too many rules on every detail. No one is against rules or structure – the problem is when you need an encyclopedia of rules to know what the rules are!

TO 67 AND 68
January 21, 2013 4:43 pm

i feel the same way
their are a number of kids in my class who always get it all
they get the good grades
the awards
the attention
i was so annoyed, bcause guess what? i tried hard to.
i worked hard an eventually got up to my place
i now have that
but
something must be done about all the other students that dont have this
we must take a stand
I HAVE A DREAM
THAT ONE DAY AL WILL BE EQUAL

To #74
January 21, 2013 11:13 am

in the previous letter she writes against rules…!

To #73
January 21, 2013 10:25 am

No-one is saying there should be no rules. But, there is a way of enforcing them. The student can still feel loved and cared for even if there are rules. And pick those rules wisely. Admonish and punish with love. These days the youth need that so much more than before. All we’re saying is that the students need to FEEL that you truly care about them, that you truly do love them.

#2
January 21, 2013 8:26 am

wow that is intense

I wonder if hanholo ever reads these comments and starts to feel responsible and in the frame of mind to make changes??
January 21, 2013 7:36 am

So many adults with children already as teenagers are saying that schools simply did not care for them. The same can said for Yeshivahs. In Yeshivah I didn’t get much attention and because there were no goals or proper exams and therefore amount of skills picked up was a joke. But I wonder if hanholo even cares about criticism coming from grown up adults talking about their perception of the moisod years later? Not criticism from teenagers but complaints from grown adults who have kids in the system? Or do the Hanholo know that their position is safe so there… Read more »

opinion from a 21 year old
January 21, 2013 6:22 am

As someone that finished his teen years and is entering “life” I would like to say my opinion. I’m on Shlichus in a small new yeshiva and the way it works is that Shluchim in Yeshivos on one hand are Buchreim and on the other, part of the Hanhalah. So I get to hear what the Buchreim say and what the teachers and staff are saying. There was 2 weeks here in Yeshiva that we didn’t have a Mashgiach, the Buchreim where thrilled and had a time of their life, no supervision = do whatever u want! after the 2… Read more »

bottom line
January 20, 2013 11:48 pm

Bottom line is if the student doesn’t feel you care, you are doing something wrong. The student wrote how she feels. And if that is how she feels, then those in authority are doing something wrong. And it’s not only this one student’s feelings. So, isn’t it time to change tactics?

face it
January 20, 2013 11:05 pm

let us face the facts. Unless one works on themselves and is just thoroughly a really genuine person, you can care, you can know or think you do, etc. Bottom line is to be a combination of Genuine, Mensch, and klug. Not more, not less. Most teachers are at most, one of these. There are a few teachers who are 2 out of 3, and then there are those blessed teachers who the Abishter alone loves who have all 3. Some people are just afflicted with character deficiency, its different from Personality Disorder. They have odd personalities which don’t reach… Read more »

To #20 #67 and #68
January 20, 2013 10:32 pm

I went through the same experience except I didn’t know I was bright or talented. Not one teacher ever thought to nurture and empower me. My days spent in high school(when I did show up)consisted of me doodling and wondering when a teacher would notice how much pain I was in… Today, BH, I am doing very well in university and my professors have given me the empowerment and encouragement that no teacher in high school ever gave me. I have surpassed many of my peers and even teachers from high school, thank Gd! Yet, I still have scars that… Read more »

Time To Evaluate (long overdue)
January 20, 2013 10:17 pm

I know many, many students,including my own children, who have very negative feelings about the way they were treated in school. They do not feel that they as a person were taken into consideration. If that is the case, don’t you think there must be something very wrong with the way the school is run, that there must be something very wrong with the attitude of the staff.? Isn’t it time for the hanhaleh to make a cheshbon hanefesh to see what to change in order to have the students look up to you, to have the students respect you,… Read more »

To # 67. Wow.
January 20, 2013 10:13 pm

I sat here and cried as I read your comment. Aside from the personal details, such as your age (I am younger than you) and the fact that you are in another country, I could have written the exact same comment. I too, was known for being “smart” and “talented” – but thats it. I was completely and utterly overlooked and disregarded. And the Bais Yakov convention? I wanted to go so bad I could taste it. But it was out of the question because I was from a ‘nothing special’ family. It took me many, many years and a… Read more »

Kudos to #20!
January 20, 2013 8:59 pm

I too grew up in Crown Heights and went to an ‘Eigine Moisid’. I agree with you 100%! I am over 40 and a grandmother already, but still cringe at the thought of how the hanhala treated me and many others. In my 4 years of High school I was placed in a box as the talented girl who all she knew was how to sing and act. Out of a class of over 40 girls 5 were the top girls for being 100% students and from top families. Those were the girls that everyone paid attention to. Those were… Read more »

Is this a RESPONSE???
January 20, 2013 8:35 pm

This RESPONSE validates the original Op-Ed article. If ever I had doubt when I read the first Op-Ed, the Response confirmed the original’s legitimacy.

For #52 and #56
January 20, 2013 6:01 pm

We’re talking about the problem of school’s micromanaging their student’s

Their is nothing wrong with making a few rules here and there, but to control every aspect of someone’s life is insane and counterproductive.

Remember: There is only one way… to get anybody to do anything. And that is by making the other person want to do it.- Dale Carnegie

not enough to care
January 20, 2013 6:00 pm

Yes, teacher, you may care and love the student. But if the student does not feel it, it is not enough. Make sure the student feels it. Once the student feels you truly care about her and you love her, she will try to please you. First and foremost put your efforts in building a relationship of trust and respect.

To #58
January 20, 2013 5:39 pm

“Intelligent teenager”?!?! Now there’s an oxymoron if I’ve ever heard one.

Chasha would be a better mechaneches
January 20, 2013 4:51 pm

I am impressed with Chasha C. I am unimpressed with this mechaneches. Her addendum comments confirm this conclusion. If she is not prepared to seek a solution as she indicated, then she is completely part of the problem. Maybe Chasha C should consider a career in chinuch since she knows the score!

attn. #4 #14 #22 #51
January 20, 2013 4:40 pm

“The greatest entrepreneurs broke the rules. The best of our shluchim break the rules. The Rebbe broke the rules. The Frierdiker Rebbe broke the rules of Judaism in America when he said “America iz nit anderish.” I hope you can realize from your own words what type of rules were and are broken… Not the teachers rules and not the parents rules but the rules of a meaningless and selfish culture. Yes there are plenty of very smart people that dropped out of school and are very successful in what they do, but I doubt you will hear from even… Read more »

#58
January 20, 2013 2:59 pm

Totally agree!

My Thoughts
January 20, 2013 2:48 pm

Principals and teachers must understand that each student is unique. Each child has different learning capabilities and home environments. Schools must learn to adapt. In any service profession if you can’t perform, you will not survive. Children have maturing minds and emotions that must be nurtured and respected. A misspoken or complimentary word by a teacher can impact a child for life. Teachers must realize that their ”job” is not just a 9 to 3, but one that is 24/7. If they are unwilling to take on the tremendous responsibility, they should rethink their profession. Students are not always mature… Read more »

To 45
January 20, 2013 1:39 pm

45 wrote: “A mother can’t fully explain to her 1 year old why he can’t play with a knife… “Because I said so… ” Sometimes is the only way when the person won’t fully understand.”

That approach works for a 1 year old, as your example. It fails with a 17 year old mature and intelligent teenager! When schools treat young adults as toddlers – it is a recipe for disaster. That is when so-called “chinuch” fails.

Derech
January 20, 2013 12:11 pm

there are a lot of reasons why people go off the derech, all I am saying is that if we had normal schools, most of the kids would stay in the system. The problem is that our system is geared to only make shluchim, and even at that, they do a horrible job.

this is pathetic
January 20, 2013 11:33 am

girls are not going off the derech because there is rules. every society has rules. any normal running society has rules. life needs rules. without rules we would do whatever we wanted; and THEN girls would go off the derech. the fact that girls are going off the derech is beacuse of other things, not school rules. lets focus on the family, the friends, the negative influences, before blaming everything on the rules that needs to be there.

You are the problem
January 20, 2013 10:49 am

Whoever wrote this article shows why our system is so bad. Once kids are in high school you can’t force them to do things. They need to daven or learn or become stronger in their judaism because they love it. And the job of a teacher is to show and teach that love. Most people in the lubavitch chinuch system today are unqualified and think that there are 2 teams; the teachers and the students. Respect the kids and they will go to the end of the world for you. The Yeshivahs that I excelled in were places that the… Read more »

to #49
January 20, 2013 10:21 am

I love your clear thinking and recognize your communication skills. Lucky are the students who have you as their role model. I would love to know which lucky community is benefiting from having you educate their children!

To# 49
January 20, 2013 10:16 am

Well said. Your’e not (originally) from Stamford ‘ill by any chance?

O common seriously
January 20, 2013 9:58 am

u know u need rules. any normal civilization needs rules. Any normal business place has rules. Even any normal amusement park has rules.
You could have all the fun in the world breaking them and wish they weren’t there but you can’t honestly say that there’s no reason for them.

from #4 again
January 20, 2013 7:44 am

RESPECT your teachers and elders. If you wanna break the rules, feel free to do so after you graduate. I’m sure your future employers would love to see you break all the rules! Sorry, but nowadays teachers have to earn respect. If they are not teaching kids how to live as Chassidim in TODAY’s world, then they need to refresh themselves and their methods and attitudes. While kids should not be rude except when the situation is so bad that a class must rid itself of the very worst of teachers, they should most certainly tell their parents when teachers… Read more »

UR TYPICAL STUDENT
January 20, 2013 3:34 am

i am SO ready for my mid winter vacation!

Not in CH
January 20, 2013 3:18 am

OK, I didn’t read all the comments and won’t, ’cause after all who has time, and the grammar and spelling drive me BATS! I have raised, fairly successfully b’ah, 8 of my own teenagers, and been teaching teen-age girls for over 30 years. Having read the two articles (mostly) I know for certain there is a failure of education here. Not because of the student’s letter but because of the teacher’s. Students rant now and them- it is a symptom of their passion and their beliefs and perhaps also of their immaturity. Sometimes they make sense, sometimes they don’t. But… Read more »

as a teacher
January 20, 2013 1:35 am

I still cant help but notice gaping holes in this article skirts around the main issue. I dont think this mechaneches sounds caring at all, even with her additions.

Number 20 is 100% right
January 20, 2013 1:24 am

I went through a similar experience as well. But I wasn’t even an average student. I was that dreaming girl at the back of the classroom near the window who never got report cards(or extremely negative ones) I just wasn’t all “there” and no one cared.If I was to be absent for the year no one would notice or care. I was a good hearted girl who did no harm. I understood why I never got awards with one exeption: There was a major project that the school wanted to implement which needed my skills. I worked very hard on… Read more »

to #36
January 20, 2013 12:56 am

I lose respect to readers comments when I see comments such as yours. Author wrote “If after looking at that you still feel I’m inflexible & living in the past ((my own added 3 words: -) two insulting sentiments)… I’m sorry, you’ll probably never bend enough to consider our point of view and nothing… will convince you we’re not out get you or your children.” She clearly stated CONSIDER her point of view. She did not write “share” her point of view. You are projecting a sentiment upon her that she never expressed, and actually conveyed quite the opposite to… Read more »

to 18
January 20, 2013 12:49 am

LOL!
Really? U want answers for everything you do?
Maybe next time ask the doctor to explain exactly how the medicine is going to affect your organs so that the illness goes away. Or maybe check the airplane yourself if it’s safe enough to fly, if you are not satisfied with their answers… A mother can’t fully explain to her 1 year old why he can’t play with a knife… “Because I said so… ” Sometimes is the only way when the person won’t fully understand.

A third approach
January 20, 2013 12:47 am

Don’t blame the teachers,it is not their fault.The system forces them to do and say things they do not necessarily agree with.If we want to fix education ,we must revert back to the old days when teachers had autonomy to teach as they felt right.I am not saying we should remove all oversight(because that can lead to all sorts of problems),rather remove the overbearing bureaucracy that controls are teachers like employees at a local firm. A teacher needs to be comfortable in what he or she is teaching and not have someone over their head telling them what to do.… Read more »

woooow.
January 19, 2013 11:27 pm

I’m assuming that half the people commenting on this brilliant response aren’t teachers. To go into a class of students that don’t want to be there, they don’t appreciate you, and even more so, they get mad at you for “micromanaging” them. Every once in a while a student will do something that will make everything worth it, but it’s not as easy as “teachers need to smile”, this isn’t a job where you can just smile through your problems. This, in my opinion, is one of the most important jobs, for without it, none of our children would know… Read more »

Thank you teacher
January 19, 2013 11:20 pm

I agree with you. I too teach, although in an out of town school, and I do care enough about my students to guide them with some respect and authority, which is appropriate, and understand the girls may not be ready to reciprocate. I am always impressed and surprised when the girls return from sem so mature and inspired, as well as grateful for what they gained in high school. The leaving and returning gives the girls the space and perspective to look back at what the teachers and administrators try to accomplish. This very rarely happens during the high… Read more »

To 34 you are chutzpah
January 19, 2013 11:18 pm

I never saw so much chutzpah as 34 telling a respected long time teacher that she is past her expiration date and is sour. How dare you? You don’t even know me. Pure chutzpah!

Wowowowow!
January 19, 2013 11:14 pm

39 comments in less then an hour! I read this article before there were any comments and I wrote one, but decide not to post it in fear of hurting the authors feelings. As a student of a large Lubavitch girls high school, I agreed totally with the girl that wrote the first article. Although I wouldn’t say that this article is totally wrong, I do beleive that adults think that they understand everything when really they don’t. All I ask from teachers is please understand that you don’t understand! I get sick and tired of coming to my teacher… Read more »

Virtual independent's
January 19, 2013 10:29 pm

Nobody likes being told what and how to run their life. This applies especially to teenagers who are striving for independent’s. Tell a teenager that she/he is stupid, that they don’t have a choice in their decision’s and you are guaranteed to find resistance! There is only one way… to get anybody to do anything. And that is by making the other person want to do it.- Dale Carnegie Instead of telling a teen what to do, it may be more effective to, guide them to the right decision. Show them why a certain decision would be in their self-intrest… Read more »

to#9
January 19, 2013 10:19 pm

who said what #99 wrote was sarcasm, sounded like that person was serious and #10 agrees

to#10
January 19, 2013 10:17 pm

who said her opinions are immature. And, what is wrong with writing or voicing their opinion.

Reading this article makes me lose respect of teachers
January 19, 2013 10:16 pm

I lose respect for teachers when I read this teacher’s comment #23: “If after looking at that you still feel I’m inflexible & living in the past… I’m sorry, you’ll probably never bend enough to consider our point of view and nothing I or any teacher can say will convince you we’re not out get you or your children.” Can you hear yourself??? You are saying that if after reading this you still don’t agree… then you are never going to get it. Huh??!! That is your best argument?! Is that your strongest point?! Let me use your “logic” in… Read more »

smile
January 19, 2013 9:57 pm

It would help if the teachers would smile once in a while

Past her expiration date
January 19, 2013 9:56 pm

Milk has an expiration date. When the date is long past, the milk is off. Sometimes it is very sour. This teacher, who “may have taught [Chasha’s] mother” is waaaay past her expiration date. That explains why she is sour.

STOP
January 19, 2013 9:48 pm

Very well written. Stop bashing this teacher for caring!!

this is ridiculous.
January 19, 2013 9:33 pm

So whoever this teacher is, who won’t even put her name down, is basically saying teenagers should be treated like children and she not be allowed to have opinions. Well guess what? They are real people, soon-to-be adults and actually do have opinions, whether you like it or not. once they get out of your school they can whatever the heck they want. And if this is your attitude, please don’t complain when they go off the derech. It was your choice and this is the way your responding.

#2
January 19, 2013 9:28 pm

i agree with u i think the teachers also whant to make a rule that we cant eat sleep text or talk

oh my lor-d
January 19, 2013 9:25 pm

ohhhhhhhhh my G-D none of the teachers unterstand us teenagers there so one track minded!!!!! achhhhhhhhhhh i cant stand it the principle always think the teeachers are right and never listens to there student

Also a mechaneches
January 19, 2013 9:24 pm

Brilliant and about time….couldn’t agree more with EVERY word.

Well....
January 19, 2013 9:18 pm

if I thought the other article was bad this one is awful. It shows exactly where the problem lies in education today. Teachers cannot see eye to eye with their students in order to properly respond to what the student is REALLY asking
(read between the lines and figure out what the girl is really asking)
#4 has it spot on!

???
January 19, 2013 9:06 pm

If you are so caring, then why aren’t you expressing so to your students? Your points are quite valid-you do love your students and care for them- please EXPRESS it! EXPRESS-and then when you are making rules, your students shall beezras HaShem do them out of love and respect. I commend you for taking on the role of a teacher and as you said-you are right. So much of what you do determines the students future. Thank you, and I salute your efforts, especially to the teenager of todays day and age.

Teacher Corps
January 19, 2013 8:55 pm

“Long time teacher” says it all. Teachers become entrenched in the system because they themselves fear losing their (pittance of a) parnosoh if they speak out. I think we need fewer long-time teachers and more young, vibrant ones. Chabad ought to copy the AmeriCorps idea and pay for schar limud for any bochur or girl who commits to five years of teaching in a Chabad moisad chinuch. At the same time, moisdos should clean their teaching ranks of those who have lost their spark and are just coming to work because they either love the feeling of authority that they… Read more »

I AM A STUDENT IN A LUBAVITCH GIRLS' HIGH SCHOOL...
January 19, 2013 8:49 pm

…and yet, I have to agree with a lot of what this teacher writes. I’m not a “goodie-goodie”, a “teacher’s pet”; I’m not even much of a stickler for the rules. But, I also have the ability to (try to) look at things objectively. Just because rules are not ideal or even correct does not mean that the educators are wrong for instituting them. Rules are a vital element of growing up – learning to accept with kabalas ol is a very valuable trait. Even if you KNOW the rule is wrong/unjust/stupid (and believe me, I’m a teenager – a… Read more »

I suggest
January 19, 2013 8:47 pm

to the teacher in this article and all others as well to read the book: “Positive Discipline in the Classroom”

Author again
January 19, 2013 8:47 pm

I appreciate all the comments. However, I feel many are there because of the omissions in the original article. I hope you have bothered to read my post (#12) where I tried my best to clarify. If after looking at that you still feel I’m inflexible & living in the past… I’m sorry, you’ll probably never bend enough to consider our point of view and nothing I or any teacher can say will convince you we’re not out get you or your children. Now I think I’ve said as much as I can so I’ll leave you all to slug… Read more »

to 4
January 19, 2013 8:42 pm

I applaud u

Here is the WHOLE problem
January 19, 2013 8:17 pm

Author wrote in #12: “We can’t always explain certain decisions. I know that’s also difficult to accept, and “because I said so” isn’t a satisfactory answer. Sadly, sometimes we can’t give you a better reason because …well, for reasons that just aren’t your business.” THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM!! If a “teacher” cannot explain or communicate, that teacher is not “teaching” the student. The student feels she is being bullied by the teacher. If the rule cannot be logically explained and justified – maybe that rule should just not be.

Average girl
January 19, 2013 8:13 pm

I am now 37 yrs old and a mother of many children, ka”h. Sadly, when I read about the mechaneches that cares, I wonder who exactly is being cared for. Not once, in my 4 years of high school in our very own local Mossad, did any teacher look my way or give me any attention. After all, I was 85-90 well behaved student, so i got neither praise for being a “top student”, nor criticism for misbehaving. Simply put, no teacher ever looked my way. Which was okay, because I came from a stable home and had no major… Read more »

you are the only one to blame for going off
January 19, 2013 8:11 pm

My teachers are not to thank that I’m still wearing a kippa they gave me a very hard and bitter taste to Judaism, its the fact that I realize the truth and realized that I want to what’s right…..u ccan’t blame anyone else for what you choose in life the fact of the matter is u have a brain of our own and can make it own decisions in life, and encouragement from parents is I think the best…… (sorry if not everything I said makes sense I’m still drunk from shabos… as long as my point is made clear)

Here is the WHOLE problem
January 19, 2013 8:10 pm

Author wrote in #12: “We can’t always explain certain decisions. I know that’s also difficult to accept, and “because I said so” isn’t a satisfactory answer. Sadly, sometimes we can’t give you a better reason because …well, for reasons that just aren’t your business.” THAT IS THE WHOLE PROBLEM!! If a “teacher” cannot explain or communicate, that teacher is not “teaching” the student. The student feels she is being bullied by the teacher. If the rule cannot be logically explained and justified – maybe that rule should just not be.

Well said!
January 19, 2013 8:02 pm

So true! As we get older and move to the other side of the desk, we begin to realize how many of the rules we once hated and tried to break at every opportunity were really for our good! Thank you teachers for sticking to your guns even in the face of hundreds of teenagers who express their often rude and immature opinions. It’s not easy! Keep it up! We may not say it but we really do appreciate it!

To 9
January 19, 2013 7:51 pm

Read #10 Mother of Many who fully supports “There should be a rule that a student cannot write articles complaining about teachers.” I too wish #99 in other article was sarcasm but sadly it is the reality.

Comparing both articles
January 19, 2013 7:44 pm

I reviewed both articles. “Chasha” sounds like a very real, intelligent, sincere and mature young lady who is open to dialogue. This “long time teacher” sounds like she imposes her views – my way or the highway. Reminds me of an immature dictator who resorts to brawn rather than brain. I have no doubt that if the two met for a debate, within five minutes “long time teacher” would lose. I think “long time teacher” should apply to herself her own advice in her last line: “If you want to be treated like an adult, you need to act like… Read more »

I usually defend teachers, but....
January 19, 2013 7:08 pm

no/ 4 has made very salient points. All so very true.

The brightest and best of chabad, or the world for that matter, “break rules”. There has to be room for creativity within the permissible boundaries….

Names?
January 19, 2013 7:03 pm

Why wouldn’t this teacher put her name to this article?

Author writes
January 19, 2013 7:00 pm

Unfortunately, some information here & there, as well as almost an entire paragraph, were omitted from my response and as result, the published article is a lot harsher than I intended it to be. Basically, I ended by explaining that the fact that students spend so much time & energy on “trying to win” & buck the system shows the root of the problem. As I originally wrote, if you were more willing to accept authority we may very well surprise you…by acknowledging a maturity that really is there even if it’s well-hidden right now, thereby changing our perspective and… Read more »

Finally....
January 19, 2013 6:53 pm

Finally an article presenting the teachers and mechanchos points of view. Though in fact some of the points made in the previous article were true, this finally puts things in a different view, If only all students could feel this message we teachers are trying and working so hard to impart.
Thank You

Mother of Many
January 19, 2013 6:39 pm

Bravo! I am so glad someone put a proper response to this article. There are ways of dealing with issues that teens have, but to be able to step on a soap box and give their immature opinions worldwide and for a LUBAVITCH WEBSITE to publish this, is WRONG!

to 2
January 19, 2013 6:13 pm

Ever heard of sarcasm?
Hmmm I think that’s where the problem lies…

sorry
January 19, 2013 4:28 pm

i think you are wrong
teenagers ARE irrational…i know cos i was once one and you need that little tiny weenie bit of extra sensitivity and broadminded thinking and consideration to care for them, teach them and show them your point AS IF they are little children
remember YOU were a teenager once!
and never say ‘JUST GROW UP’ cos it hurts….

Ex rebellious student.
January 19, 2013 3:45 pm

I thank teachers, (the good ones, and they are out there), for their time and patience and in resoponse to the above, well said.Guiding and encouraging is NOT micro managing
I wish I had known that much earler.

a parent and teacher on the other side of the world
January 19, 2013 11:57 am

Brilliantly put. In fact your last sentence says it all

What old school nonsense
January 19, 2013 8:44 am

While i respect u for teaching and working in an arena that will almost never satisfy everyone- a more inspirational, engaging, colabritive response would have been better.
If the student is old enough to write on col she is old enough to have a one on one suggesting an apointment to ‘hear’ the student and learn where the misunderstandings are, with a divide and concour atitude might be better.u sound very loving but old school. Kids today are not what u were as a kid- different world.

You enforce your rules - but she'll pay your salary
January 19, 2013 7:47 am

If I were a girl in your class, I would probably plan to go off the derech as soon as I graduated. Your world ended years ago, Morah whoever-you-are. Today, it is the people who bend the rules creatively who are the bosses, and those who fear the unknown who are those who depend on social programs and watch the world go by rather than making it move faster and in the right direction. The greatest entrepreneurs broke the rules. The best of our shluchim break the rules. The Rebbe broke the rules. The Frierdiker Rebbe broke the rules of… Read more »

Mother of teens
January 19, 2013 6:05 am

As I always tell my kids, teachers are humans too. Even the best of them WILL make mistakes. Cut them some slack!
Although I must say that the last few paragraphs of that girl’s article did make sense when she was talking about positive reinforcement and helping them to understand what the rules were about.

A quote from #99 from the previous article
January 18, 2013 9:51 pm

“As a teacher I point to this article as the reason why we need more rules. There should be a rule that a student cannot write articles complaining about teachers. There should be another rule that students should not access the internet. And there should be one more rule that students are not allowed to have opinions. Just follow the rules and you won’t complain, ever.”

That right there is a problem.

Smh
January 18, 2013 9:46 pm

I asked her, do you want to be right at all costs and get your own way, or can you keep an open mind and really hear what I’m saying?

I would like to have both sides point of view to answer that.

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