Aug 14, 2012
Children Coping With Divorce

Social worker Hinda Schryber offers ten points to think about when you are in contact with a child whose parents are divorced.

By Hinda Schryber, Jerusalem, Israel - N'shei Chabad Newsletter

I write this piece as a child of divorced parents, as an adult, as a mother and wife, as a social worker, as a campaigner for children’s rights, as a campaigner for adult survivors of abuse, as an advocate for children, and most importantly, as a survivor myself.

Here are ten points to think about when you are in contact with a child whose parents are divorced.

1. It was not the child’s decision that his/her parents would get divorced. The child was not consulted.

2. Parents can divorce each other but parents can never divorce a child (and a child cannot divorce his parents). The child belongs to both of them forever. Even when a child has been removed from an abusive or criminal parent, that child is still their biological child.

3. You can take a child to another country – another planet! – but you can’t break the bond between parent and child.

4. Whatever type of person that parent is – even in the most horrific scenario – he or she is still the parent of the child. So before you say something about the parent – even if it is true – think about the impact on the child. For a child to believe that his or her parent in evil is almost impossible. Bad-mouthing parents to a child of any age just leads to confusion and trauma.

5. Asking children to choose which parent they want to live with is akin to asking them which hand they want to cut off. Children should never have to make this decision. If the parents cannot work this out between themselves it should be left up to trained professionals, courts and batei din.

6. Regardless of which parent the children live with, they feel bad for the parent who is alone. They worry about him or her, they worry whether their parent is eating and sleeping and if they are okay. Lots of reassurance is called for.

7. Splitting siblings should be an offense punishable by the courts. Ask any siblings who have been split up and they will tell you that.

8. When a child’s parents divorce, something within that child is forever broken. The child’s life is changed forever and while the child may feel relief, he or she may also feel shame, guilt, embarrassment, sadness, loss and fear for the future.

9. Remember that even after divorce the parents still share the child, and this involves school meetings, celebrations, simchas, shivas, etc. You can never truly walk away from a spouse if you have had a child together.

10. I believe that divorce may be the right decision under certain circumstances, but I also believe that the children should be considered as much as the parents. I believe the children are an equal party to the proceedings, and that they too have the right to be represented.

-----

Too few divorces are carried out with dignity and compassion for the children.

I can appreciate that often there is one parent who is not cooperating or is abusive, and the other parent has to deal with this (which has often been going on for a long time). However, the way it is dealt with is so important for the children.

I know that divorce can involve an enormous amount of anger – but that anger is neither understood nor desired by the children, and it needs to be kept away from them.

I know that divorce can involve a lot of distress – financial, physical, and emotional. But the more all of this can be kept away from the child’s view, the better. The parent’s distress and anguish is the children’s distress and anguish and they are helpless to do anything about it. The children will have enough feelings of guilt and will ask themselves enough times whether the divorce was their fault.

So what CAN we do...

We can reassure, reassure, and reassure some more. Tell the children that it was not their fault – but don’t make the mistake of blaming the other spouse, because the child will neither understand nor accept that. Better to tell the child, “Difficult things happen, we don’t always have reasons or explanations for them but we have to believe it will be okay. Hashem is in charge, and I’m here for you.”

The more dignified the behavior of the parents, the more integrity they use, even while feeling anger or being faced with their spouse’s anger, the better the child will cope. Children learn mostly by example, and this is no different.

Find a safe place for the child. There will be times when the divorce is overwhelming and the child will need some time out, so cultivate an escape. This could be a grandparent, an aunt, a friend, someone who can take over in rough times, so the child gets a little break from what is happening.

Make sure the child isn’t being used to convey messages, money or anything else between the parents. Imagine how a child feels to be put in that position. Don’t turn the child into the mature, capable parent and yourself into the needy, lost, upset child.

If the child is going for sleepovers to the other parent, then ENABLE it – send them with their favorite toy or blanket, or food they like. Believe me, it will be hard enough for the children, and nobody likes having two homes. (Children with two homes often feel homeless all the time.) With your helpful and considerate behavior, and by not trying to make the children miserable when not with you, you can make it easier for them.

Let the children express their feelings – whatever they are. Always remember that they are children.

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Children of Divorce Speak

YAAKOV SPEAKS:


I truly believe my parents were right to get divorced. They were two completely opposite people, from opposite cultures, without much in common. They never really agreed on anything and the fighting and arguments got worse and worse the longer they were married. There was no physical violence but there was plenty of emotional abuse flying from both sides.

They had two children, my sister and me.

There were other elements of my early family life that were not within normal range, but I am going to try and stick to what was connected to the divorce.

As a young child, I thought that what went on in my family was normal, totally normal. Not until I was much older did I have any perception that it was not a favorable environment for anyone to grow up in.

My mother was not well so we had many live-in helpers. From a very early age I was responsible for myself and my younger sister.

When I was told by my mother that she and Daddy were going to “live in separate places,” it was an enormous shock to me. That was all I was told, not why, not when, not how. I remember asking who I would live with and I remember – at the age of 11 – being told I could choose.

Choose – between my parents. No, that was not a choice I could make. When I was repeatedly asked by my parents ( not by any other person ) where I wanted to live, I would freeze. Looking back, I think that by freezing I made it clear that I was not going to make that decision and it would have to be made for me.

In the country where I lived, between the ages of 11 and 12 one has to take examinations to get into high schools. Like the other kids, I took them all.

I failed each one miserably. There were some exams that I could not take altogether.

My parents, who had been told by the school principal that I would pass easily, were shocked by this. So I was taken to a psychologist.

I nonchalantly told the psychologist what was happening in my house. He offered my parents two choices: to send me away to boarding school, or place me in a foster home.

They chose to send me away to school. I would return home only once every three months, and thus the problem of where to live became easier.

I loved the school. Most boys hated it, but I l loved it because there I knew I had a bed, food and a safe place to go.

Aside from holidays, there were visitation days when the parents could visit the school. Whenever one of these days came up, my parents would argue over who would come. Sometimes neither of them came, and I joined the small group of boys whose parents lived abroad and couldn’t come for the day.

At no time did anyone ever talk to me about my parents’ imminent separation or divorce.

I also had no idea what was happening to my sister, and frankly, this was the worst thing for me, as I had always been close to her and felt responsible for her. I learned later that my sister went with my father.

From the day I left to go to boarding school I had no contact with my sister until seven years later, when I asked a counselor to initiate contact with her.

If I could change one thing about what happened, that would have been it – that she and I would not have been separated. To lose the security of my parents’ marriage was one thing; to lose my sibling as well was awful.

When I left school I learned from my mother that I was to live with her. The court had actually given custody of both children to my father, but he had decided that I should stay with her – I think to look after her because she was so sick.

My mother bad-mouthed my father all the time, and used me to obtain money from him. She would tell me there was no money for clothes for me and sometimes even for food, and that I should ask him for money. When I would go to ask my father he’d tell me that my mother should ask herself. I soon realized it was easier to go without.

Years passed without any contact between me and my father or sister. I finally left my mother to study at university when I was 18. With professional help, I initiated contact with my sister and father. Until his death my father says he regretted the missed years of contact with me. To my sister I had become a stranger.

My father and mother were not able to be civil to each other, not even in our presence. All family events, such as my engagement, marriage, the births of our children – were fraught with tension.

I was often the mediator between my parents, and I would have to divide the grandchildren’s time equally between them and make sure their visits never overlapped. They spoke about each other with venom – each one said the other was mentally ill. It was a burden that my sister and I bore most of our lives, dealing with our parents.

So many people asked me, “Why did you stay with your mother?” I don’t know – because at age 12 that’s what I was told to do! Did I really have a choice?

I know now that there is often one child who is the korbon, who carries the responsibility and the burden. Often it is the eldest child, as it was with me. The only sense I can make out of this was that my sister was spared that role.

Did either of us have a role model of how a family is? ...No.

Did either of us have a choice? ...No.

Did either of us want this for ourselves or for our children? ...No.

Did either of us as children receive professional help in any way? ...No.

Did we survive? ...Oh yes we did!

How? Through some of the smallest but kindest deeds that individuals did for us, both of us. Through all the Shabbos invitations we received. Through the kind angels that let us see inside their homes – the good and the bad, so we could see what a home and family looked like. Through the woman who told my sister she could study and helped her process an application to school. Through the Rav who took me into his school even though I wasn’t up to par.

Through the people who realized our pain and saw us as separate beings from our parents and simply stroked us – encouraged us, took us seriously, realized we had potential and wanted to see us grow. They took our hand and showed us the way.

--------------

SARA SPEAKS:

I’m 30 years old now but I am still very much affected and shaped by my parents’ divorce. This is because they did not handle it in a moral and decent fashion. They were too emotionally involved in the divorce. Understandable but unfortunate.

I am an only child. My parents divorced when I was a baby. I don’t even remember my father, since he disappeared from my life at that time. I know he has remarried and has new children in his new family, but I have not met them. He does not even send me a card on my birthday or call me before Yom Kippur when all fathers bless their children. Every day I live with the knowledge that my own father does not love me or want to know me. It is hard for me to believe that anyone would love me when he doesn’t. My husband sometimes has a hard time convincing me that he does care for me – what kind of man would care for me? I feel inherently unlovable. I pray to G-d I don’t pass on my issues to our two children, who are as yet babies.

My mother remarried thirteen years ago. She tried to get me to be close with her new husband, but I did not want to. I was already a teenager and the last thing I wanted was a forced “relationship” with some artificial “father.” I wanted my real father – but he didn’t want me.

My mother wouldn’t let up. In fact, at one point she used to sit all three of us down to dinner and then disappear. This little trick of hers, which made me deeply uncomfortable, was supposed to create conversation and intimacy between me and my new stepfather. It did the opposite. I couldn’t stand the little tricks, so I ran away from home. Now I hardly speak to my mother at all. When I do see her, she still pushes her husband on me; ugh!

Had my parents handled the divorce differently, I would be a different person. Had my father insisted on remaining part of my life, and made it his business to contact me regularly – to congratulate me on my accomplishments, to see if I need anything – I would have felt lovable. And I would have known how to relate to a man. I had no close relationship with any man until I got married. You can imagine how unprepared for marriage I was…!

Had my mother understood that her new husband was HER new husband but NOT my new father (not when I was already a teenager!), I would have felt I had a home where I could feel comfortable, safe and secure. Instead I felt homeless from the time she remarried until I married my husband. Feeling homeless, I made myself actually homeless.

I hope and pray my marriage lasts. Sometimes my insecurities and fears drive my husband crazy. I know I should get help but I cannot stand sitting with a therapist and being expected to talk. It reminds me of those suppers with my mother’s husband.

Hinda Schryber is the director of Ohr Lanefesh, an organization funded and licensed by the Israeli health ministry that provides psychiatric rehabilitation in the community.

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Opinions and Comments
1
Sensitive issue, indeed.
Very sensitive subject, an issue that develops many outputs and destroys many lives.
What the main reason (often it is a conglomeration of reasons) is? The children (not solely small ones) are not egressing idem from this psychological inner ceasure of loving to hating relationship and they may need professional supervision, shadowing and advises.
Hashem yshmor.
Parents should review their priorities and decisions with children's welfare in prime consideration.
(8/14/2012 2:13:50 PM)
2
So informative Mrs, Schryber
But most of what you said also applies to parents fighting in front of their children, even without divorce?
(8/14/2012 2:20:12 PM)
3
FrumDivorce.org
Very well written and informative, thank you for bringing up this sensitive and important subject.
(8/14/2012 3:09:46 PM)
4
Anan Amos
Wow - what a strong article - I needed some time to calm down before I was able to comment.

As a divorced young man - with young beautiful children - it pains me to death to read such things. I for one am the most against divorces in general. My divorce was not my choice - unfortunately it was necessary.

My kids are suffering and I know it for a fact - I can see it in their eyes every time I spend some time with them. I can hear it in their voice every time I talk to them.

Unfortunately my ex and I have by no means any civil agreements or contact for that matter. I keep on trying and I keep on offering to talk normally - but it never comes. She expects me to simply bow to her every command and I should accept. I recently decided to stand my ground - I cannot keep hurting myself any longer - I keep realizing that the more I give in the more is being asked from me.

Now I know that this hurts the kids - but then what should I do? What am I supposed to tell them when they ask me very uncomfortable questions on the phone? I get so lost at times. I try to answer with the least possible emotion and I do my best to change subject right away.

Now here is my biggest dilemma. I always had a plan of leaving the town in which I find myself in. My kids and my ex seem to be staying here for a little while longer. But all my dreams, all my ambitions are elsewhere... What should I do? Give it all up?
I know for a fact that I will regret not going after my dreams for the rest of my life. Even if I fail - at least I have tried.
I am too young to give up on life - I have to follow my dreams and my path in life. But then I worry about my kids. I love them too much to hurt them any more than what they are currently feeling. I want them to enjoy life and get the most out of it possible. I don't want them growing up with all the low self-esteem and low self confidence that divorces naturally cause in children. I am so hurt that these kids simply are not given a chance to live a "normal" healthy life. I know that a major separation more than what is currently in place will be inevitable.

You see - as it is now - I am supposed to see my kids once a week for a few hours - this is being challenged by my ex. I get to talk to them on the phone 3 times a week. But that is it. I have no clue whether or not they are healthy. I have no clue about any development of theirs. I have no clue about any accomplishments. No meetings, no events (other than one graduation of my oldest son) - I know absolutely nothing about them. I don't feel too connected as a father should be to his children. I simply have no clue.
You see - my kids are too young to tell me - oldest is 5 and youngest is 3. They are too busy playing or watching a film. They live in another part of town which is the complete opposite of my community. And the mother will not involve me in anything. But she sure will know to ask me for more money if I am to get a raise. Oh and that demand will come in the form of lawyers which will end up in court.

I see lots of article talking about how much the children suffer from divorces - I did my best to avoid the divorce - I was ready to live with an unstable wife only for the children’s' benefit - however there is nothing on how I can move on with my life, follow my ambitions and still be the best father that will give these poor children what they need emotionally.

The only thing I am currently left with is a pray to Almighty - to save and protect these children no matter what - after all they are more His than they are mine. I was super blessed to have them - doesn't matter the circumstances. I pray that they will always know in their hearts that no matter what I love them think of them, and care for them at any given moment in time - even if I am not close to them, and even if it is challenging to see them and have any normal relationship with them. I might raise a new family - it might be far away from where they live - but I will never let go of my sweet memories with them and my ever bonding love I have towards them. They will always know that they have an open door to my house no matter where it will be. I am only a phone call away waiting for them to contact me and come to me if need be. That is all I have left.
(8/14/2012 4:22:11 PM)
5
wow
this made me very emotional.
i feel very bad for anyone who has to go thru this, kol hakovod to this social worker, the world needs more like you and your organization. were can i donate to this cause?
(8/14/2012 5:12:43 PM)
6
From a Bubby to #4
Your pain is palpable. I have a few thoughts: are any grandparents in the picture who can put aside their own bias & judgments & focus on the children? While not the best scenario, it may be the only one you have.

And this: don't leave town. I know it's hard to hear, but your kids will always feel you abandoned them. For what? A better job? New career? Travel? These may be worthwhile pursuits, again I'm not judging, but if you read the two case histories there is a common theme: abandonment.

My sister divorced her low-life husband & I admire her every day for never, ever bad-mouthing her ex. She waited till all her children were adults before she re-married. She encouraged communication with their father, who barely acknowledged his kids, refusing to pay for Yeshiva. She struggled but today she has 3 happy, healthy kids, all happily married and doing just great.

If you can't get any sense into your ex, try finding a mutually acceptable mediator/intermediary who can help you all move on. No matter what, keep the door open with your children. You can't just walk away because of some dreams & ambitions. They can wait. Life isn't perfect for anyone, but you must put your children first. They need their tatty. I wish you so much Hatzlacha.
(8/14/2012 6:03:46 PM)
7
Meir
B"H to # 4 As to the question of your personal future, it seems to me that you ought to do as the Rebbe advised- speak to a Mashpia. B' derech clal advice from one's mashpia will be the same advice from the Rebbe. As to the denial of your visitation rights, this is not only an issue of sticking up for yourself-it is to the detriment of your children if they are denied access to their father and conversely contact with their father only enables them to grow up with dome semblance of normalcy.This can only be resolved by a mutually respected intermediary such as a Rav or if there is resistance to that then a Beth Din and ultimately a court of law if a summons to a Beth Din is ignored.
(8/14/2012 6:11:59 PM)
8
Anan Amos
Thank you #6 and #7
First I would like to notify you that a mashpia and intermediary is involved - unfortunately the other party doesn't even respect the courts. We are in court all the time.

My situation is VERY complex. I am very young and cannot let me life just go to waste because of one person's selfish reasons. True I let her have the kids - I could have fought it - but what would that help? Kids need their mother more. that is the bottom line.
This town is very hard to live in and there is no real good opportunities here - that has always been the case for years now. I cannot deny who I am. If I am ambitious - I must go with my dreams. To suffer abuse from an unstable woman plus being miserable about not following my dreams - to me - it's not worth living. This becomes a life and death situation for me.
BH I am no dead-beat and no lazy bum who doesn't want to work or support his family - quite the contrary. My ex has her reasons why she chose to leave me - that is her issues that she has to own up to. I cannot take responsibility over her mistakes. To me I see it - that she has ruined and keeps ruining the relationship I have with the children. Proof is in the pudding - I have absolutely no contact with my children when in fact I am paying child support and can barely afford to eat. You are free to come see my fridge.
I feel that many people are too quick to give up on their lives. Just because of a divorce and children - if education was slightly different - kids won't grow up with deep holes in them. True there are parents that have abandoned their children - such as the last story of the article - that is horrible - I cannot see myself EVER doing that.
It is very important to never bad mouth - it is important to always stay in touch with your kids - but it is also important to follow ones dreams. Don't throw out your kids because you are angry at your ex - she has her own life and her own issues to live with. Your kids are individuals for themselves - keep in touch with them and keep sending cards and "reminders" that you still look out for them even if you are far away. But let me assure you - if I was ever to succeed in life - don't you think my children appreciating it that I will be able to afford any Yeshiva or University they dream of? I will be able to afford them a wedding and/or other simcha of their dreams. Trust me - my gold-digger ex will come running if she knew I can afford it - and heck - I will offer it! they are my kids and it will be my honor to by them all homes and cars when they get married.. why not??? Unfortunately the Chabad education system doesn't teach us to think this way - they teach us to suffer for our children and to "sacrifice" our ambitions - this is the true wail of this sob story - not my challenges that I have to go through.
This is what I meant when I said that everyone focuses too much on the sad part - rather than writing articles on moving on - following our dreams and educating our children in a much better way.
(8/14/2012 7:54:18 PM)
9
listen to this
divorce... is just another part of life which is sometimes necessary.

after the split many times the environment is a lot healthier for the children as their is much less animosity and fighting now in the house.

divorce in and of itself is a healthy, relieving experience for the child (once the divorce has reached its completion.)

the problem is when the adults around the child don't present what is happening to him in a healthy way.

they look at him as some permanently damaged being, some unfortunate nebach case that is "forever doomed" due to his circumstances. (even though they give encouragement the child sees this is what they believe inside)

that is actually what causes the trauma and shame in the child! (he internalizes their messages)

this is because the adults around him unfortunately might have a very childish and undeveloped understanding of what divorce is as well, and might fail to realize and present to the child how healing divorce could be for a family and how normal it is in today's society for two ppl not to be able to get along.

the child has to be told calmly the truth: that he is still normal, his family is normal, its normal for ppl to disagree to the point where they need to be in separate places and not only that, it takes courage to divorce as well and he should feel a sense of pride that his parents didnt grind it out further and damage him further. that his parents were able to have the maturity it takes to recognize their limits and separate.
and the child should spend significant time with relatives that can be warm, nurturing and reassuring, and that can restore in the child the sense that he is still whole, that he still can be proud of who he is and where he comes from.

presented in this way, the child will usually thrive and grow to be very healthy and happy, thanks to the divorce.
im done with my rant.

(8/14/2012 10:42:43 PM)
10
To Anan Amos
Part of having kids is that your first responsibility is to them. Running off to pursue your dreams is selfish and unfair. They have zero control over their surroundings, the least you can do it stick around and be there for them.
(8/14/2012 11:11:19 PM)
11
thank you for this
its important to realize how little you can know about someone and that no one should be judged
(8/14/2012 11:21:43 PM)
12
Meir
B"H To number 10, who are you to call this man selfish. Maybe if you had the minimum knowledge of Torah you would know that it says " do not judge someone until you stand in their shoes". This is obviously a young man who wants to do the right thing and is struggling with the decision. It just may just be that having a good livelihood will enable him access to the children his ex is denying him anyway. Invariably when they grow, up as in all cases this strategy backfires and they turn against the parent that denied them access. I think that you ought to fund this fellow so he can remain where he is number 10, if not you might just be the selfish one.
(8/14/2012 11:35:55 PM)
13
to #4
Without judging u of course,please do not move away from your children,you will see even if it is dificult next to them,you will get rewarded by Hashem to choose the hard way ,and Hashem will bh find you and i really wish you all the solutions you need to move on.Please stay next to the kids always.As much as you can,they need u.
(8/15/2012 1:19:32 AM)
14
someone asked where can i donate
Hinda Schryber is co-director (together with her husband Avraham) of Ohrlenefesh, an organization in Israel that helps people tremendously - often people everyone else has given up on. if you would like to support Hinda's work you can, through her website, ohrlenefesh.org
(8/15/2012 8:45:13 AM)
15
Anan Amos
To #10 - I have a feeling that I know who you are... Based on the way you wrote it sounds like the one I suspect it is.

My responsibility was to create a safe and secure environment for my children - now that this was taken away from me - I can longer physically provide that any more.

To #12 - I sincerely appreciate you not judging me - but my relationship with my children is - on a scale of 1 - 100 = a 20%. I personally don't believe in all those "God will reward you stuff" - The environment in this city - especially with my ex around is too toxic for me to handle, not to mention what the kids are going through.

I met this one guy that his parents divorced when he was really young. His dad was a criminal and had to spend time in jail. The mother did not let her children visit or talk to their father, in attempt to protect them. Years went by - the mother always bad-mouthed the father - long story short, she one day got into a fight with her son (the guy I met) and mentioned something relating him to his father and kicked him out of the house. Guess where this young man found an open door??? By this time - the father was released from prison - in prison he took the correctional procedures that was offered there - sort of like therapy - he totally changed to becoming a much better person. He tried regaining and rebuilding his connection with his children - but the mother kept interfering - the children knew and felt this. They knew that their dad was available and waiting for them anytime. That is why - when his mother kicked him out of the house - he knew that he had a safe place to go. Today - this young man hardly talks to his mom - but is super close to his dad!
To me - this is an important lesson. I need to keep my side of the street clean - I will keep contacting my kids no matter what - but at the same time - I will also live my life. I am too young to throw it all away. My kids will grow up with a defect anyways - they live with their unstable mother - there is nothing I can do about it. But at the same time - they will grow up and they will seek the truth. They might be angry with me for a little while - but that is something they will have to cope with as they mature. They will appreciate this one day - especially when I am able to help them in ways no one else can - and in ways I believe a father has the true responsibility to do.
(8/15/2012 9:11:39 AM)
16
I am #10
Anan Amos - I have no clue who you are; my comments were based solely upon your comments here. It seems you theoretically would like to do the right thing but are extremely misguided as to what that is.

If you leave your children in an environment you do not consider safe and go off to pursue your own "dreams," you are a sending a very strong message to them that they are not your first priority.

Is that really what you want to do to them??
(8/15/2012 11:06:10 AM)
17
Anan Amos
To #16/10
You seem to be a VERY judgmental individual, and based on your writing you seem to be a woman as well. That is how I figured that I know you - but that is not the point.

You may not necessarily agree with my views on life and you may be judging and deciding what other people including my children will feel in the future. But the main point you seem to be missing - is what kind of message are they getting right now??? what kind of education are they experiencing as they grow up. Nothing has changed and it doesn't seem like it will - anytime soon. Therefore if they are already going through a tough time, and I am hardly seeing them or talking to them - then what difference does it make if I move on and live my dreams?
At this point - the only thing that can change is my ex's attitude - she is free to join and move to the city I plan to - or start acting like a responsible mother and raising her children to be more connected to their father - at his point none of that is being done. The children can be just as connected with me - even if I will be far away. But that all comes from both parties playing their share.
(8/15/2012 11:26:32 AM)
18
It is #12 again
You know better than me what is good for you,if Hashem put that wish in you maybe that is the right thing you should,i wd just suggest that you should write to the rebbe and get an answer,listen this is your life i cannot tell u what to do,but that s what i wd do for such a big decision,im just suggesting,and praying for u that Hashem should guide you and show u the way to do the right thing for u and ur kids,and that he should make the mother realize and be more calm,and u guys should find harmony ,peace and happiness in ur lives.Amen
(8/15/2012 3:18:42 PM)
19
It is #12 again
It s a very big decision,u need to ask,u can t make the decision by yourself.Sorry but that s what i think.
(8/15/2012 3:43:53 PM)
20
To #12
You are very wise - thank you - I will consider your advice. I also would sincerely like to appreciate your sensitivity to the matter and the approach you used.
May God bless you and many people like you!
(8/15/2012 3:59:01 PM)
21
It is #12 again
Thank u very much,it is because i also went thru divorce and so many things and now i care about every single jew,i want everyone to be happy and guided all the klal Israel.Don t forget to pray and ask Hashem to guide u always.All my best wishes for u and ur familly.
(8/15/2012 5:33:58 PM)
22
Bubby again
#10 may be a woman, I don't know. I am! I beg of you, please do not leave your children! Maybe the words abandon, desert, & run away are very emotive, but sadly, that's exactly what your children will feel & will have drummed into them by their mother. I have a friend married to the nicest, most generous man & his daughter (who was already married when he & her mother divorced!) treated him like absolute garbage at the wedding of his grandchild earlier this summer. This is what will happen to you - this idiot daughter said he abandoned her! And this is a "rational" adult. Imagine what damage it will do to little children! You are in a lose-lose situation & unfortunately, you're not the only one. So I suggest you see how you can adapt your ambitions to work under your present circumstances. If it means training for something, try a correspondence course or a local college.

You don't give much information about what it is you want to do & I'm sure that whatever it is, it's worthwhile. But no matter how you spin it, no matter how rotten your ex is, another girl will want to know that you are a good father. It says a lot about your own character, forget your wife's, that you are there for your kids.

As for not visitation: with the greatest respect, unless you abused them (she may be saying this) the courts will give visitation. Get a better lawyer, even if it costs. Get another job to accomplish this if you have to!

I know it sounds harsh, but I'm not sure you are thinking rationally (how could you?!) You need help. There are people who can & will help you, unless as I said before, you are some kind of monster, which doesn't sound like it.

Again, I wish you all the best.
(8/15/2012 5:41:45 PM)
23
To anan
To dear anan
We know that every nisayon (test) G-d He gives the powers to withstand it
I your case y have great points how are both very importent that is even if choose to leave y should came back often to take them out to eat/play
Ps as for my opinion on the matter that y shoud move but try not to go to far if possible and keep close contact.
If y are not happy y also cant be a good and caring father
And maybe is will lessen the stress with y ex if their is a distence
Still this dasnt mount to beeing close to y children
If wish y hatsloche rabe in this great nisoyon and that hashem should open y eyes and y the right direction
(8/15/2012 7:55:20 PM)
24
To The Author - From a child of Divorce point of view
Hi Anon Amos,
I read these comments and i would like to put it in a different perspective. I would like to put a perspective as a child of divorced parents.

Firstly, let me say i read your comments and i 100% understand how you feel that you have your whole life ahead of you and want to have a life, etc. It makes perfect sense. Im assuming you are in your 20s or 30s by your comment and also many people, almost everyone including me in that age group feel that way. Its important to go for your dreams. I urge you too. But before i continue saying it i want to tell you how your kids are likely to feel in the future from my own experience.

Bh I am a healthy, happy, mature young woman in my mid 20s. I have am a health professional, love helping people, love my job, have many amazing friends and lead a great/independent life....
But my parents got divorced when i was 9. I will not go into the details but i want to say - to a child and everyone in the family the day the divorce comes, no matter the circumstances, it is a DEATH in the family. It very often causes especially the children not to not trust relationships, and a pain that although gets better over the years stays forever. That pain will worsen if you dont stay part of their life. The feelings of abandonment never dissapear after divorce but are much worse if you actually abandon them. By what you want to do - that is essentially what your doing.

And i say this respectfully, every parent needs to realize, BOTH parents are responsible for that child until you die. So step up to the plate and take responsibility as a father or i know for sure they will hate you forever
(8/15/2012 8:06:19 PM)
25
Meir
B"H there are 3 comments it is # 12 again. I did not author those comments
(8/15/2012 9:46:14 PM)
26
It is #12 again
I agree 100 % that our priority and dreams are our children once we are parents,i think we need to sacrifice for the kids as much as we can,once we bring them to this world we are responsible for them and it s not about us anymore,but again i cannot judge only advise.
(8/16/2012 12:01:00 AM)
27
to #9 - no child lives in a bubble
You can tell your child that divorce is normal, that it happens to people who can't get along.... You can tell it to them any way you like. But your kid doesn't live in a bubble. They will definitely be challenged. They will see healthy families and wish their own lives could be different. And whatever stuff made the divorce necessary won't disappear with the divorce. It will be there, a constant presence in the children's lives. So yes, sometimes divorce is a lifesaver. But too often, it is (also) a life destroyer.
I'm not saying a person should never get divorced. But don't make it sound so simple. For the kids, it's really never simple at all.
(8/16/2012 12:53:10 AM)
28
calling Hinda Schryber
Hinda, would you comment? you are the real expert, no matter how you look at it
(8/16/2012 10:23:21 AM)
29
friend of divorced mom
my friend last night told me she's divorced. she also told me something amazing which made me think about this article and all the comments back and forth...
she told me her and her x made the divorce SEEMLESS. he's anyway a workaholic who they never saw except a quick goodnight at night. so now they are divorced he pops over every day and gives them a quick kiss. he sees them every other weekend and wednesday night dinner. and 10 days in the summer. and she said they worked hard to make the divorce barely noticable. obviously they aren't in the same house so that's probably a sad point for them. but they see them. i also noticed the 4 year olds birthday party on facebook- BOTH parents there. i just can't help but wonder why they got divorced. they are so civil they couldn't stay married..?
(8/16/2012 3:36:18 PM)
30
Anan Amos
Thank you for your comments.
Meir Thank you for your clarification.
To the Child of Divorce - thank you for your input - it means a lot to me.
I do plan to keep coming back and visiting my children - I won't move too far away - at least not right away.

I would like to revisit the comment written by child of divorce - Let me first start off - I cannot imagine your pain and it is not fair to you that you had to go through it. I am truly sorry as a father in the case of a divorce.
Let me describe briefly what the feeling is like during the giving of a get. - This is at least what I felt. First off - the vision gets so blurred - I'm not tearing - but I simply cannot see properly. Dopamine is at its highest peek. Guilt and remorse is only a by-product of all the emotions that are flying around. Then there is the shaking of the knees and arms - I am quite a built person - it is really rare for me to feel such a feeling. My mouth is parched and I cannot speak properly - all my words are mumbled. Then the actual moment where the Get is given - the confusion is so high that you are not sure what you are doing. Finally the Get is in her hand and it feels like someone ripping open your chest and ripping your heart right out. This is the person for for the past while you were the closest to - you loved each other so much - all of a sudden all that is gone - overnight. as if it never existed. so trust me - children may go through crazy pain - but adults of divorce go through a much more dramatic experience - I still didn't get into the details. Trust me - its not a pretty picture.

Now with all that being said - lets not get into all the legal battles and the drama that follows. but here's a new dilemma I need to face. Dating again!!!
Now it is as if I am tarnished goods. I loose my identity - everyone starts judging me - and I am now signed and seals to marry a divorcee or some older woman. I have no chances with the single girls.

i won't get into details of my situation and what I am looking for - this is not the place for that - but a little message ot all the single girls out there.
A man that went through hell and back - depending on his situation and how he managed it - give him a chance - you might end up being the happiest woman a live! Some men believe in therapy - some take intensive therapy and some turn out to be the most special people alive. - you never know - give it a shot... You might be surprised.
Now I am not talking only about myself - but also about other people I know well.
The only message I have - don't be too quick to judge - you never know what the situation is. Always approach a situation with an open mind.
(8/16/2012 4:03:14 PM)
31
its me Hinda
I feel very sad reading all of this.
very sad because when i wrote this article i did not mean for it to turn into any kind of judgmental scrap or competition between people.
Every single set of circumstances are different and unless we are in those peoples shoes we cannot possibly judge .
As a child of divorced parents - one of the things most lacking for me was independant representation. Someone who would, independantly of all the fighting, take my situation into account and help me.
I strongly beleive that this is still lacking in the system. The chidlren have NO voice.
So i wrote the article - in the hope that those involved with divorce would recognise this and try to give the chidlren a voice or at least an independant listening ear.
I may get shot for saying this but i think parents sometimes get so wound up in the anger, frustration and revenge, finances etc, that they forget that the chidlren are even there.........
This is not about Justice - this is about Damage control to the victims.
(8/16/2012 4:20:20 PM)
32
To 29
If my divorce was like that do you think I would leave town??? That is amazing that they could do that - may God bless them!!!
Anan Amos
(8/16/2012 4:41:21 PM)
33
big fan
Hinda Schryber, thank you for writing.
have been reading your articles and letters in the N'shei Chabad Newslletter for Years nnnow and always enjoy them.
you are truelly the voise of reason!!
(8/16/2012 11:33:57 PM)
34
Anan Amos
I totally agree with you Hinda. You are remarkable and well written article. I am sorry for what you had to go through.

I agree 100% that children should be listened to. That is what I fought for in my divorce. It was my only concern.

Unfortunately the other side did not listen, care or even take the children into consideration. The children begged and cried to her - but she did whatever she did.

That is why, I can no longer take "blame" or responsibility for those actions taken by someone else. I need to take care of myself.
(8/17/2012 11:19:14 AM)
35
sounds kinda like us...
email me: farbrengen770 [ a t ] hotmail [ d o t ] com if you want to talk..
(11/4/2012 2:21:22 PM)
36
teen
This is what happened to me as a child... One can have no idea how much this hurts a child!!
(11/8/2012 8:57:08 PM)
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