Aug 2, 2012
Missing From Agudah's Video
Can you guess who is the missing person on the left and where this was taken?

A video shown at the Siyum Hashas noted the work of Daf Yomi promoter R' Chaskel Besser OBM, with a small omission. UPDATE: The producer CJ Kramer responds.

By COLlive reporter

The massive 12th Siyum Hashas celebration in the MetLife Stadium in New Jersey was an immense success for its organizers - Agudath Israel of America.

Although a thunderstorm forecast, over 90,000 Jews filled the arena in a rare and historic event to honor the learners of the Daf Yomi daily cycle of studying a page of Gemara.

There was an effort to show unity and have on the dais a representation of Orthodox haredi Jewry. While Satmar, Viznitz Monsey and other chassidic groups did not attend - each for their reason - Chabad had some representation there.

COLlive.com has learned that Philanthropist R' Sholom Yehuda Rechnitz, a donor and emcee of the celebration, personally invited Rabbi Yehuda Krinsky, the Rebbe's Mazkir and Chairman of Merkos L'inyonei Chincuh, to join.

Rabbi Krinsky, as Crown Heights Rabbi Moshe Bogomilsky, were seated on the second row on the dais which featured some 500 rabbonim and roshei yeshiva.

Other Chabad dignitaries that were identified by one attendee on stage were 770 Rosh Yeshiva Rabbi Zalman Labkowsky, Dayan Rabbi Shlomo Segal, Chevra Shas shul Rabbi Mottel Gurary, and Congregation Beis Shmuel Rabbi YY Jacobson.

In the large crowd were spotted Rabbi Chaim Miller, author of Kol Menachem publications; Long Island Shliach Rabbi Anshelle Perl who gives a Gemara shiur at Chabad of Mineola; and R' Shlomo Aron Holtzberg who gives a Daf Yomi shiur at Congregation Anash at 770 Montgomery Street.

But it was one moment that caught the eye of a Lubavitcher that was troubling.

During a video presentation at the event, tribute was paid to the known askan R' Chazkel Besser OBM, founding Chairman of the Daf Yomi Commission and a leader of Agudath Israel for many years.

Interviewed about his was a close friend, philanthropist Ron Lauder. While he speaks, the video shows a photo of the two standing together and facing another person who's only seen by a black hat.

They were "making sure to cut out one half of the picture," our reader pointed out.

VIDEO: The photo is at the 7:55 mark


Bellow you will find the original photo in full as appeared on JTA when Besser passed away.

In the credits to the video its says Chananya Kramer directed it, Rabbi Nosson Scherman of Artscroll Mesorah Publications wrote it, narration was done by Rabbi Paysach Krohn. The editors were Aliza Elman, Faigy Lazewnik and Chananya Kramer.

COLlive.com has called the offices of Agudath Israel and Kolrom Multimedia in Maryland, the producers of the video, but got no answer.

UPDATE - Friday, 12:52 pm EST:

Chananya (CJ) Kramer, President of Kolrom Multimedia, Inc. sent the following statement to COLlive.com:

"This was not meant in any way to be disrespectful, and honestly it was simply a matter of focusing the eyes of the audience on Rabbi Besser z"l, of whom the narration was speaking about at that moment.

"The decision to zoom in on Rabbi Besser was solely mine and I was not under any direction of Agudas Yisroel to do so. I truly apologize for any inadvertent pain this may have caused."



Most Read Most Comments
The cropped photo from the Daf Yomi video
The cropped photo from the Daf Yomi video
The original photo from JTA
The original photo from JTA
Opinions and Comments
1
Typical...
Really no surprise...
(8/3/2012 12:41:26 AM)
2
effi

Hanosi hu hakol
(8/3/2012 12:55:13 AM)
3
Childish non-story
This video has nothing to do with Lubavitch or the Rebbe. Getting offended because they only used the part of the photo that is relevant to the story is ridiculous.
(8/3/2012 1:06:27 AM)
4
I disagree with this...
The video was not talking about the Rebbe! To us its always Rebbe, Rebbe, Rebbe... but for others it is not so. The video was Ronald Lauder talking about Chaskel Besser and thats EXACTLY what the photo showed, Lauder and Besser - nothing more, nothing less.

LEt s stop playing victim every shot we get.
(8/3/2012 1:07:05 AM)
5
To #3
You are right that they had no obligation or point to show the Rebbe in the video, but once you have a photo of him why make it a point to take him out?

The point here is not was the Rebbe in the video or not, but what is behind their decision and if it can indicate on what they really think (as so clearly done by R' Malkiel Kotlar before the last such event "Asifa")
(8/3/2012 1:10:47 AM)
6
@4
Let's phrase the question differently:

If Besser and Lauder were standing with Rav Elyashiv or Reb Nosson Tzvi Finkel (a WHOLE speech was dedicated to at the siyum), do you think they would have cropped it as well? Not in a million years!

You know why? because its a great kovod and zchus to be seen with a tzaddik. And it seems like the organizers did not think a tzaddik was indeed in the photo (or perhaps the Rebbe was too great for them)...
(8/3/2012 1:14:37 AM)
7
6@
well put
(8/3/2012 1:28:28 AM)
8
#3#4
there was no reason to specifically take it out
(8/3/2012 1:36:00 AM)
9
To #3
Its childish and spiteful of them to crop it!
Their relentless and continuous sinah is ridiculous!
(8/3/2012 1:58:25 AM)
10
Why are you looking to reitz on machlokes?
We saw such achdus at the siyum, stop looking in the garbage for a scrap of machlokes.I guarantee you"ll find it.
(8/3/2012 2:12:11 AM)
11
Come on
There was good reason to take it out as the video was talking about Lauder and Besser and their relationship. Nothing else. if the picture had included the Rebbe it would have inevitability taken away from that focus.
As to whether they would have done that with one of their Gedolim, well they may have left it in but only because that would have been significant to a large portion of the crowd.
Unfortunately, there's plenty of genuine examples of Sinas Lubavitch. No need to clutch at straws and call foul when nothing happened.

Memo to Col; There are plenty of other ways you can work on flying the flag for Lubavitch.

A Proud Lubavitcher

(8/3/2012 2:25:25 AM)
12
To # 10
The point is that if they are preaching about achdus, they should not specifically do something that negates that
(8/3/2012 2:29:49 AM)
13
If only
If only he was getting kol shel brocha from rabbi krinsky maybe they would not have cut him out.

Stop pandering, it was sickening to see rabbi krinsky there. They treat Lubavitch the way they treated the rebbe, they cut him out.
(8/3/2012 2:41:11 AM)
14
Achdus?
10 all the people lehavdil at a super-ball isn't achdus!?! and at the million man march in washington a few years ago with farakan!?!
(8/3/2012 3:21:49 AM)
15
Chaval
This is really heartbreaking. It is precisely things like this that taint the prestine of the whole Daf Hayomi institution... This is why the Rabbeim did not propogate daf Hayomi. Because the institution is fundamental anti Chasidus... Chaval...
(8/3/2012 3:35:06 AM)
16
aguda act was disgraceful
not only that peasach krohn has been assured by rabbonie eretz yisroel from doing brissin
and people still use him
(8/3/2012 3:49:21 AM)
17
Whats the Chiddush
ASHREINU MAH TOV CHELKEINU!!!!!

ITS UNFORTUNATE THAT THERE ARE STILL MANY WHO ARE KEPT IGNORANT OF WHO THE REBBEH IS & HOW CHASIDUS (PROPERLY APPLIED) ENRICHES ONE'S LIFE!
(8/3/2012 3:51:01 AM)
18
Our responsibility
BS"D
This is not a judgement of them, it is a reflection of how we are doing our job. We have a lot of work to do...
(8/3/2012 4:31:08 AM)
19
Its wrong for them to omit (crop)
its dubble wrong for us to care

unless you care bec its a lost opportunity to legitimize the Rebbe to ppl who so far have been kept in the dark from benefiting from the beauty of chasidus chabad
(8/3/2012 4:34:54 AM)
20
Stop being pathetic.
PLEASE. Yes, you are right it was cropped. But please stop digging around for sinas chinam, you will find it wherever you look. how does your posting help?
(8/3/2012 4:53:11 AM)
21
Rebbe
There was no no reason for them to crop the Rebbe.It is typical of their attitude. Lubavitch makes them nervous. As the Rebbe would say the shver has broad enough shouldres. The Rebbe has tremendous shoulders. We are in good hands BH
(8/3/2012 6:25:33 AM)
22
This is a very important story
I am happy that all those who went to the siyum can now see what it was really about and go ask mdchila from the rebbe

To add to # 6 great comment. What if it was lehavdil a senator
(8/3/2012 6:31:43 AM)
23
Btw
Chaskel Besser himself would have been very hurt by this. He valued his relationship with the Rebbe a lot
(8/3/2012 6:56:37 AM)
24
what do you expect?
And this Sina makes a joke of their learning. All the shteiging in the world doesn't give these hypocrites any more ahavas yisroel. They make me sick.
(8/3/2012 7:17:40 AM)
25
why crop the rebbe out?
(8/3/2012 7:35:37 AM)
26
straight to the point
it is a well known vort "aisav soneh et yisroel"
they cannot tolerate anything that has to do with lubavitch
(8/3/2012 7:58:21 AM)
27
Wow
Speechless...
(8/3/2012 8:08:17 AM)
28
To #4
You are right in saying that if Rabbi Besser would be standing next to Rav Eliyshiv, they wouldn't have cropped it - but don't forget that Rav Eliyashiv was part of Aguda, not the Rebbe, so they have no interest in promoting the Rebbe. The question here is - if he would have been standing next to the Satmar Rebbe - would they have cropped it, or not....
(8/3/2012 8:17:49 AM)
29
Why
Why take the opportunity to further fan the flames of machlokes.
They did it.
Why do we have to highlight it and discuss it?
(8/3/2012 8:51:48 AM)
30
Halacha: eisav soneh es Yaakov
Shabbat shalom
(8/3/2012 9:03:56 AM)
31
I agree
That is was about Besser and Lauder

But to go out of their way and take a pic of them with the Rebbe and to edit the REBBE out on purpose its a Bizyoin...
(8/3/2012 9:04:50 AM)
32
MEIR
Its no secret agudah and the litvitshe gedolim dislike the rebbe and lubavitch....face it...and btw the yechi people probally encourage it.
(8/3/2012 9:12:25 AM)
33
R' Nosson Sherman
It is a sad testimony to the lack of hakoras hatov by Rabbi Nosson Sherman. If it wasn't for a shliach of the Rebbe , Horav Hagoan Sholom Ber Gordon , olav hashalom, Rabbi Sherman would not have been a frum person today. (Unless someone else would have been mkarev him and taken him out of public school, and sent him to a Yeshiva and had him over at his house for shabbosim etc. etc. )
(8/3/2012 9:14:37 AM)
34
On purpose? So what!
What's the problem - why does every single (perceived) slight, whether real or not, have to be brought to the forefront?
In the largest display of K'vod Hatorah in America ever (other than a funeral), there has to be issues brought up? Get over it, and grow up.
(8/3/2012 9:25:46 AM)
35
elliot770
It is very significant it shows sinas chinom period.They are sick with their hatred beyond belief.I sometimes daven in lakewood satmar as i live in PA and I dont always have a Daily minyan .satmar shtibel .has ongoing minyonim. a yeshivisha person litrealy verbaly atacked me loudly why is a lubavitcher davens there. I told him he picked the wrong lubavitcher to start with as I was a close talmid o f Rav Shmuel Berenbaum ZL and my grandfather zl who had a gemilas chesed in williamsburg davened every day at the satmar R rebbes private minyan as requested by the rebbe as hakaros hatov for his chesed work. Dont doubt for a moment that the croping was incidental. I believe we must point out this sick sinas chinom and confront it.
(8/3/2012 9:28:55 AM)
36
Did not come from the top.
This DISPICABLE act of Bizoyen , was NOT sanctioned from the top.

Rabbi Dovid Zwiebel is a sh-tik eidel-kiet, that man would not know how to insult any one if it hit him between the eyes. As we have Me-chutzo-fim, so do they.

I only hope that the Man-higim of Agudas Yisroel will rectify this “BIZOYEN HATORAH” !!!!

(8/3/2012 9:32:52 AM)
37
This isn't the attitude I love Chabad for
Chabad used to be happy, optimistic and forward looking. If someone wants to focus on a part of the picture without the Rebbe, so be it. No big deal. Get over it guys and move on. There's a whole welt out there who still know nothing about their Jewish heritage!!!
(8/3/2012 9:37:05 AM)
38
it was about besser etc
if alyashivs pic or any other gadol would be in the pic it would still be about besser.
if the rebbe is in the pic it would detract from besser etc.
they recognize that.
(8/3/2012 9:48:57 AM)
39
went to their yeshivas
This was done to show that Lubavitch/Rebbe is not important. To them it is not a kovod that besser went to the Rebbe. This is unfortunate but real life.
(8/3/2012 10:02:28 AM)
40
Lubavitch
Lubavitch has stooped so low not to care that people are disrespecting the Rebbe. Crown Heights is sinking fast.
(8/3/2012 10:57:12 AM)
41
Turn it around
Let's turn it around. suppose Lubavitch would attempt (HLEVAI)to attract all factions to Siyum HaRambam. In a picture there is 2 people whom you are discussing about in your video standing with Rabbi Shach. Would we have cropped out the picture?? Yes, because at the Siyum HaRambam that would be offensive to many. Should we then not attempt to unite all factions? We are in golus still. The Rebbe many times said that if something positive may come by not including me, then go ahead. Uniting people is a great thing even though there are still many halamos oF golus.
Moshiavh Now!!!
(8/3/2012 10:59:40 AM)
42
enough already
cropping the photo speaks for itself, however we should take our cue from our Rebbeim and focus on the good. Please col use your exposure to report positive inspiring events.
(8/3/2012 11:05:32 AM)
43
The display of a hidden weakness for all to see
Comment 6 put it very well.

The fact that they took the Rebbe out of the picture displays an underlying insecurity they have, and some kind of fear that is in their minds and hearts.

If it was anyone else in the picture, even just a regular person they would have left him in the picture without even thinking twice.

This shows that it was a conscience decision they made in talking the Rebbe out r”l. It’s a shame!

By them doing this, they displayed a great hidden weakness of theirs for us all to see.

This discussion is not in anyway to take away from the Kiddush Hashem of the event etc., it just displays an unfortunately (big) flaw in their agenda.

Hopefully this will bring them to work on changing their ways for the better, as we can all do each in our own area’s that can use fixing.
(8/3/2012 11:06:40 AM)
44
they showed their true colors
Now all you who are living in DENIAL[ WAKE UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
They cropped the PICTURE OF THE REBBE ON PURPOSE.
Aguda is jealous of the accopmplishments of Lubavitch. They talk about ACDUS but bring the biggest PIRUD
(8/3/2012 11:24:59 AM)
45
Moshe
There was once a mekurav to Chabad who visited Boro Park for the first time. When he returned to report about his trip, he said, "There are so thousands of Chabad People in Borough Park".
For the world outside frum people, there is only one Jewish group that auctually exists, "Chabad". We cant win them all.
(8/3/2012 11:29:38 AM)
46
Think it through
The fact is that if the Rebbe would have been left in the picture, it would have created a great distraction, and been goirem many inappropriate comments, discussions, arguements etc.
It was the right thing to prevent that from happening & preserve the Rebbes, as well as Agudah's kovod.
(8/3/2012 11:42:58 AM)
47
Achdus Achdus
As long as you do it my way!
(8/3/2012 11:52:21 AM)
48
a few points to ponder
1. if we were showing a presentation and a bb was standing next to @#% most probably do the same
2. we need to be inspired from this video as to understand what the rebbe really wanted US to do with rambam and recognize the potential to engage the world
3. recognize we cant have it both ways ignore/laugh/puke the sangs and then expect them give recognition
4. while we have managed to engage the liberal secular world to understand how OPEN minded we are and have been accepted we never put any real effort in showing the snags we have any interest in s good relationship it takes many year to develop mutual respect
5 its sad to think that more lubavs were at aipac then the siyum hashas
6 there is no doubt that we as lubavitch missed a great opportunity in showing an interest in nurturing a relationship with the snags
(8/3/2012 12:27:43 PM)
49
good for COL
I hear the comments of those who think COL should not mention this. That is very nice for you and commendable. However, we have seen in the past that when people's bigotry is highlighted they apologize for it and are less likely to repeat it. This is one of the benefits of the internet.

Halachically, and I am not a Rov, there is a chiyuv to call out and protest a chilul Hashem, and this most certainly was a chilul Hashem in front of thousands of people. It doesn't matter if it occurred at an otherwise beautiful event -- a chilul Hashem must be addressed.

The editors of COL are not out to reitz un machloikes or to spike ratings. It is their job as the premier chabad blog to point out these types of chilul Hashem as they did in the case of Orlovsky, which led him to apologize.
(8/3/2012 12:28:48 PM)
50
Rabbi Nosson Sherman did the same thing..............
Only Rabbi Nosson Sherman is able to do acts of sinas chinam and machlokes with what he doesn't say or do then with what he does say or do.

Just like he croppped the Rebbe's picture out of the picture with Reb Chatzkel Besser, He did the same thing with the entire artscroll on chumash. He simply did not put in one explanation of the Rebbe on chumash!

Can not imagine how he couldn't find one pirush of the Rebbe out of 100,000 pirushim printed in lkutei sichos.

Then later when interviewed he asserts that he did not leave the Rebbe out intentionally!

As the navi Eliyahu says it best "Rotzachta gam yorashta"

Didan Natzach - Moshiach Now.
(8/3/2012 12:35:44 PM)
51
Our attitude should be ...
Not to be fools and ignore this insult to the Rebbe. The ones who ordered the picture crop will answer for it later. We should also not overreact and keep alive the negativity. Be positive and act with mentchlichkeit.

I think the better point would have been, what an act of achdus would it have been to show the whole picture, sadly, the old attitudes remain...

They fear Chabad because of its prominence. On the other hand, we have lots to do ourselves, lets focus on fixing ourselves and our own achdus which is lacking.

Eliyahu from eastern Canada ....
(8/3/2012 12:37:09 PM)
52
The Great Boycott
This year's Siyum was historic in the sense that Chassidic Gedolei Yisroel were not visible other than the Kloysenberger Rav. Vishnoitz, Skwere, Rachmistrivke, Bobov and other Chassidic REbbe's were nowhere to be seen. They were livid that they were not consulted about the program. The politicians of Aguda were Mechabed Schottenstein with saying the Kaddish on the Hadran. Hardly an Orthodox Yid who broke his teeth on the Kaddish was not in the tradition of a Siyum Hashas. Rabbi Lau, although a brilliant speaker is a Mizrachist at best not an Agudist. The Chassidic Gedolim mentioned saw this as an outright violation of principals held so dear in their traditions. It is no wonder that the videos/cameras did not focus on the Dais so as not to highlight the obvious.
Having said all this, for 92,000 Yiden to gather in one place L'Chvod Hatorah was historic and unprecedented.
(8/3/2012 12:43:00 PM)
53
Title correction
Not a small omission; it was a important omission.
(8/3/2012 12:50:22 PM)
54
they were zomming on bessers face they didnt cut out the rebbe
why dont u just start learning the daf instead of just loking for any little detail to just cause gossip and sinas yisrael
(8/3/2012 12:51:34 PM)
55
Besser video
A good opportunity for COL to post this JEM video of Besser telling story of Rebbe's meeting Belzer Rebbe in Berlin.
http://youtu.be/7GUjUh45M0o
(8/3/2012 12:54:30 PM)
56
WIERDOS!
WHY HIGHLIT IT ? CHINAS CHINAM!!!
(8/3/2012 1:35:50 PM)
57
To 28
Rav elyashiv was never part of aguda!
He joined degel , the breakaway faction of the misnagdim, in 1989
He never joined aguda
(8/3/2012 1:37:34 PM)
58
To # 50
They actually requested material to be included, but were treated in a callous manner by the people in charge of sending them material. It doesn't surprise me why they did not include anything from the Rebbe.
(8/3/2012 1:40:11 PM)
59
some clarifications
someone commented here what if by siyum horambam....picture of someone with Shach..... - small difference Shach attacked the Rebbe and Lubavitch publicly repeatedly, so obviously we would crop him out. The Rebbe never attacked Agudas Yisroel or Daf Yomi etc., so this comparison is none.

The excuse of the producer that they wanted to focus on Besser etc. - if he is a producer of a video he knows well and good how to bring onto the screen a full picture and then zoom in on one part of the picture, this also comes across more professional, only if you have a "problem" with the other part of the picture will the producer not do so, and this is exactly what happened here. farshtunkener misnaged.

(8/3/2012 1:54:07 PM)
60
to #58
FACTUALLY not true!
There were many attempts to give them ready material in a mentschlich way to put it in!!!
Please get your facts correct.

(8/3/2012 1:57:03 PM)
61
Reminder
I don't know what to say about this video story, but I would just like to point out and remind people how Agudah has been supportive and openly advocated for Sholom Mordechai Rubashkin and we should always remember that!
(8/3/2012 2:09:08 PM)
62
Rabbi Pinchos Woolstone
Rabbi Besser told me personally at his home in Manhattan
"I never felt the same way with other Rebbes as when I was in the presence of the Lubavitch Rebbe, he was of a different calibre, a yoizer min a Klal legamrei"
As to the Agudah piece, forget it , no of any importance.
(8/3/2012 2:30:40 PM)
63
Raebbe Siyum
WHne the Rebbe made a siyum (vidoe was posted last week). All he spoke about was the fact that all of the learning is useless if you dont do a good deed to another. Vdai Lamaven..........
(8/3/2012 2:44:51 PM)
64
the zooming in explanation
As pointed out by 59, it is in fact very common to pan wide and then zoom in on your subject, maasim b'chol yoim. Even if we are melamed zechus that it was unintentional, it is b'geder shogeg karov l'meizid.
(8/3/2012 2:54:42 PM)
65
thought
it stings that people do things to omit Chabad, its disheartening to see how they go to lenghts to do that.
(8/3/2012 3:12:52 PM)
66
Eough with Negativity!!!!!!!
All the negative comments is exactly the opposite of what the Rebbe would of wanted from us. Go out there and do another mitzva or good deed to hasten the coming of Moschiach. Please no more Loshen Horah & Richiles this hurts the Rebbe more. Go help a boy or girl on the streets and inveite them over for a shabbos meal. Inspire them with stories and it will deffinitly help to bring Moschiach Now!
(8/3/2012 4:07:53 PM)
67
Zooming in explanation bogus...
As a graphic artist i can tell you that the photo could have been shown complete and then zoom in on the main subject. but they would then have to explain who the other people are in the picture. doing that would have been graphically more interesting but when there are agendas....
(8/3/2012 4:24:24 PM)
68
Amazing???
Can we stop being paranoid already????
Non stop shopping around for percieved slights is getting delusional.One or maybe a few people produced this video.Nobody else had any idea if the Rebbe was or was not in the video to be cropped out.
There is no conspiracy here.Get over it.
(8/3/2012 4:52:44 PM)
69
Concerned about Machlokes
Everyone needs to calm down - as soon as this emerged, I reached out to the producer of the video who told me in no uncertain terms that this was HIS editing - NOT Agudah's official position and that he meant nothing at all with it - it was simply about Rabbi Besser and Lauder. You might say he was unwise/insensitive to crop out the Rebbe - but the reality is he meant nothing Chas Vsholom! Over there really is no story here at all. Do we need more fuel for the fire?
(8/3/2012 5:22:29 PM)
70
I love the comments coming from the Agudah Office.
Very sorry excuses.....
(8/3/2012 5:50:32 PM)
71
some outside perspective...
I am not a regular reader of this site, nor blogs in general - and for good reason! Yet, i was sent here, i've read the comments, and i'd like to give you some feedback.

In the interest of full (almost) disclosure, i am not a "snag", though i am a card carrying member of the Agudah with abit of credibility on the subject...

#4 has it right - this would apply to ALL sides in ALL cases!

#26 - although you're probably right on both counts, for you to imply that another Jew is b'geder Eisov is shameful!

#41 & 46 and of course 69 have it about right.You should be aware that the Agudah did not produce this in-house.

Finally, i am not familiar with the Artscroll Chumash issue.
(8/3/2012 6:39:31 PM)
72
#52 - you missed the point
I realize that's it's a fine line, but the Daf Yomi has always been promoted as a non-political issue. True, it was born at a Knessia Gedola, and true it has become a "project" of Agudath Israel because Ch. Besser figured that would be where the best support would come from. But if you would have attended any of the Siyumim, you would see quite a few people in attendance who would never be at a convention (that applies to the Dais, as well as the audience). Pretty much the same applies to Siyumei Harambam worldwide, no? So whichever Rebbe's boycotted because of this reason or another, shame on them for mixing politics and Kovod Hatorah.
(8/4/2012 11:01:44 PM)
73
Sad
Very difficult to give the producers the benefit of the doubt .. and I'm not even a Lubavitcher.
(8/5/2012 12:08:46 AM)
74
you cant teach an old dog new tricks!
This is a fact of life they are alte sonim! they are insecure and you cant blame them because they have the full right to be so they also cant cope with the total hismasrus and bitul rav Besser had for the rebbe, which is very well known, so to put it simple the heck with them they will never grow up. We were zoche that the Rebbe trained us to do whats right even if not popular. yehi loheh asher lohem and as the known saing goes "VER DARF ZEI DAH HOBEN". Meiovahi techakmeini lets all be mitchazik in limud horambam and the rebbes takonos and remain connected holding on to the "KLAMKE" always!

Please allow this to be posted. thanks.
(8/5/2012 1:06:46 AM)
75
Rambam
There is no excuse why the siyum harambam does not already look like this.... I'm sure some " chaim miller" non gezhe style will come one day and show the world how much ramba"m will enhance Thier lives, while all gezhe will kivayochil busy being insulted about a pic. My friends this is no joke! We need to have every shul in CH and chabad houses teaching rambam
(8/5/2012 8:46:51 AM)
76
qwestion?
why could they not found a different pic from harav beser a"h , were he is by himself or a simple Jew or someone they would not have to crop the pic?
(8/5/2012 12:49:31 PM)
77
Moshe Sherer
Let us take this in the proper perspective:

1. Moshe Sherer was proud of the fact the he NEVER went to see the Rebbe! So what do you want from Aguda if this was the policy of the many years leader of Aguda in America?

2. On the flip side when Maliokel Kotler (of the famed "Lubavitch is not part of Klal Yisroel) got up to make the siyum Yudel Krinsky got up and walked out in protest. (Segal and Zalman Labkovski did not have the same self respect that Rabbi Krinsky had and stayed). ...
(8/5/2012 3:35:13 PM)
78
In all probability
Whoever made the decision to crop didn't do it out of Sinah, but out of fear for the Sinah of those who would see the picture. It illustrates the same thing. Of course "Agudah" as an organization didn't "sanction" the cropping; did the higher-ups make every minor decision about how the video was made? But it shows that we have a long way to go before certain frumme segments let go of their sinah to Lubavitch. I don't see this as a reflection on Lubavitch at all; it was no better before Gimmel Tammuz. And to compare this with Lubavitch cropping out so-and-so, is to make the two sides morally equivalent, which they are chas veshalom not. One said the most vile things about the Rebbe, while the Rebbe never responded to personal attacks, and only responded, without mentioning names, when the other made comments that affected klal yisrael. Most Gedolim would not have been cropped out.
(8/5/2012 3:59:52 PM)
79
YaKNaHaZ
No surprise!
A Leopard never changes its Spots!!
That's Agudas Yisroel fpr you, living in denial about how much influence the Rebbe had over its own leaders.
(8/5/2012 10:22:53 PM)
80
Technical misunderstanding
I think this whole issue is one of perception.

To the average person who just looks at the 2 pictures above it may seem like 'they cropped out the Rebbe'. (CH'V).

But to somebody who does video editing, it's simply finding an appropriate shot, and zooming in on the subject.

Besuros Tovos.
(8/6/2012 12:08:21 AM)
81
sorry
I don't seek to fan any flame or blow on an ember to create one, but regardless of on what or who someone would like to focus what cropping a photo, if you are trying to show someone in a positive light and you have a picture fo that person with a wordl leader, why would you crop the leader out? Yes, it's true including the leader woudl diminish full focus on the desired subject, but it also upgrades the status of the subjet. As another posted, if the photo had incuded some gadol from lakewood, it would not have been cropped.
As far as Kramer's response - He could have shown the photo uncropped and slowly zoomed in on the desired subject.

But all this said - so what? The rebbe's gadlus is not made or broken by someone's including or not including him in a photo. Everyone is free to choose to include or not include a rebeb pohoto in their presenations. And certainly a non-lubavitch (general yeshivish achdus) event celebrating something the rebbe never really supported need not include any microscopic analysis about rebbe exposure.
(8/6/2012 2:15:44 AM)
82
A little education
I think it is important for the Chabad world to understand the world view of a non Chabadsker. We don't call ourselves misnagdim. We don't define ourselves by being against anything. In fact chabad rarely enters the mind space of the average non chabad orthodox Jew, and I think it never would if it wasn't for the ubiquitous presence of chabad. I am not trying to say that chabad isn't a jewel in the crown of klal Yisrael, I am simply saying that the perception of many within chabad that they are 'snuim' or the 'nidchei Yisrael' is silly at best. The rebbe was a tzadik, and that is an understatement. But don't flatter yourselves to believe that we think about chabad all day. Sociologically, it is always easier to keep a movement together by creating a perceived enemy, then it is by uniting under a common goal. After Gimmel Tamuz that seems to be much more difficult for chabad, and more and more of these petty things come up. Focus on chasidus, focus on mivtzoim, focus on the directives and wisdom given by seven generations of tzadikim. You will be better off then fighting a straw man.
(8/6/2012 12:21:11 PM)
83
Stop for analyzing:
honestly people would be mystified, if it had appeared the picture of the Rebbe, proving that it would be something unusual, then, since it does not appear, it would not be big news.

only that, it should not be making this much noise from it.
chaval al ha tirche
(8/6/2012 4:29:57 PM)
84
Are you kidding me?
I know all of the aforementioned individuals listed in the production and/editing of the footage. As if they think for one minute anyone who knows the slightest of anything (or them, and the said institutions in particular) did not intentionally redirect - or might I say crop out - the focus from the Lubavitcher Rebbe. I will go so far as to say that there is no way Chananya acted alone on such, he is not even likely to have directed that particular omission, he is much more likely to have been directed. Not to say he would not agree and think it made sense to do so. But essentially, it would be 'fair' to 'understand' why the Agudah and hosting organizations could not put footage of the Lubavitcher Rebbe on their screen. Imagine the horror that would follow by many in the crowd if they thought for a minute that 'Achdus' was to include Lubavitch, too. Sure, they welcomed Lubavitch, even invited a few to the dais, but it was done to make themselves feel like they were doing the correct and appropriate thing, to make themselves feel good - in no way did they consider what anyone would feel like/have to say if Chabad representatives were not invited. In light of this, there was no reason to include the view of the Lubavitcher Rebbe, for to do so would serve them no benefit, in their eyes, only the opposite would have been true.

By using, and tearing apart, such footage, they were in a sense rewriting history. Whatever took place at that moment, and those significant individuals, leaders, that were present, would not have wanted the footage to look like anything other than it was. But it was not those individuals orchestrating the event. The Achdus event of the decade, and yet, the irony.

Again, not that Chananya Kramer, or his father in law Paysach Krohn are bad people Chas V'Shalom, but in this case, they are the puppeteers for a much greater sinas chinam. The most difficult one to point fingers at and call into question as it sits silently, lurking beyond the facade "I don't-hate-Chabad-my-great-grandfather-went-to-farbrengens" facade.

Sigh. At least some things never change. It's good to be able to know what we know sometimes.
(8/7/2012 12:31:54 AM)
85
to 84
When was the last time we included rabbis that weren't lubavitch? Never. In fact most lubavitchers don't even know half the litvishe rabbis. We are such hyppocrites when it comes to achdus I'm sick of it.
(8/7/2012 10:58:50 AM)
86
to #s10,18,20,37,42,56 and similar comments
..when u r hurting ..you cry out !! .. doesn't stop anyone from Chabad from doing the Rebbes work ..and keep growing B"H !!
(8/7/2012 12:03:46 PM)
87
to 85
speak for yourself. i don't consider us hypocrites. we don't hold 'worldwide jewry' events supposed to bring together all jews from all walks of life, with the underlying theme of event promoting achdus, and then shun some. we also don't - as in, the leaders/rebbe don't/didn't, and certainly not openly - publicly shun or put down the other gedolim, roshei yeshiva etc, despite what they have knowingly, and publicly preached against us. to their students (silently and verbally), to their baalei batim, and to the world. I don't think anyone can compare the fact that chabad generally is a chssidism of it's own, mostly keepign to itself (amongst chassidim) because it's ways are different than other chassidim. but we never shunned just b/c of who they were/did things differently (again, 'we' refers to the rebbe and the respectable of the higher-up representatives). yes we think, do, and likely believe differently, but our growth did not depend upon the shunning of others. if you think otherwise of the litvishe world/organizations that spearheaded their recent growth, you must not know any of their organizations, institutions, or roshei yeshiva and 'outreach rabbi's'. When you've swum in the ocean, then come tell me you know what salt water is. I don't mean that disrespectfully, really.
(8/7/2012 5:33:00 PM)
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