Jun 12, 2012
'We Don't Expel Students'
Illustration photo by Chaim Perl
Illustration photo by Chaim Perl

Sephardic leader Rabbi Ovadia Yosef called on schools not to expel troublemakers, yet one Chabad educator told COLlive the call was not a novelty.

By COLlive reporter

Leading Sephardic leader and halachic authority Rabbi Ovadia Yosef made an impassioned plea this week to teachers not to expel children from schools and yeshivos, even if they exhibit negative behavior.

"Even if there is a student who behaves inappropriately, it is still forbidden to throw him out of school and instead we must exercise extreme patience," he said in a video posted on Kikar.net and VIN News.

"Toiling in the field of chinuch is indeed work and we have to be patient with each and every student. If we are patient with this student, one day he can grow up to be a talmid chacham. And if we send him away from the yeshiva where will he go? ...What will become of him?"

He said the act of expelling a child is a life or death situation, and cautioned listeners that in the days of the Sanhedrin, it took a group of 23 sages to decide on matters that were classified as "dinei nefashos." He warned mechanchim that as individuals, they lacked the authority to make decisions that have such far reaching ramifications.

"Don't throw them out!" exhorted Rabbi Yosef. "What, are you throwing away a rock? These are neshamos! Are you ready to take responsibility for what might happen? We must love these children who will one day become our gedolim. We need to bring them closer with sweet words so that we can bring them closer to the Torah."

While these words made headlines in the frum community, COLlive was told that the topic will not be raised in the upcoming summer conferences for Chabad educators organized by the Chinuch Office of Merkos L'inyonei Chinuch.

"It's not an issue we need to rehash," the director Rabbi Nochum Kaplan told COLlive.com. "The Frierdiker Rebbe said a student should not be thrown out - ever - because it's dinei nefashos. Throwing out a child is murder. It's simply killing the child."

He said that nowadays, "the vast majority of our mosdos implement this policy. The Rebbe told me that there is never a reason to throw out a child because he has a problem - that is your task as a teacher, to deal with it."

The only exception to this rule, he said, was if a child is negatively influencing other students and the situation is not amenable.

"Yet even when that is the case, the Frierdiker Rebbe said that a single person should not be making the decision. It should be the hanhala or a few educators deciding," Rabbi Kaplan said.

"In addition to that, Rabbi Mordechai Hodakov said that when the decision is made and a child is being thrown out, it is your responsibility to find another school that will take this child," he added.

What will be discussed at the summer chinuch kinusim is "basic classroom managment skills," a topic that is interconnected with Rabbi Yosef's speech where he extolled the virtue of patience, stressing its importance for those in the field of chinuch.

"If anyone thinks he or she can go into a classroom and 'wing it', they are making a major mistake," Rabbi Kaplan said. "And patience comes from confidence and organization, which can only be achieved by preparation."

Registration for the summer chinuch kinusim is now open for male and female teachers and principals (separate conferences) at chinuchoffice.org


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Opinions and Comments
1
killing the neshamas of the other children
To many times this exact behavior of not moving the trouble child out of the school will kill the neshamas of the other children. It teaches them that its okay to not be a mentch because there is no real consequence. Wonder why so many kids think the Rabbis are a bunch of hypocrites and they fry out? Parents don't take getting their kid under control seriously either because again, no real consequence.
(6/12/2012 11:15:43 PM)
2
No consequences, no behaving
If this is an official "policy" and it becomes "forbidden", then you have just enabled misbehavior for students. If they know it is "forbidden" for the school to throw them out, they have all the power and the educators have none. What an upside down world.
(6/12/2012 11:28:47 PM)
3
wow!!
amazing stuff here !
(6/12/2012 11:50:07 PM)
4
Pudding
In the past 20 years, HUNDREDS of students have been expelled and/or told not to return in dozens of yeshivos.

Maybe there are parallel worlds, one where the Merkos Chinuch Office exists and the other where the schools and students are.

The quote could be painfully true, though "It's not an issue we need to rehash," Right. It's an issue you need to touch and address for the first time, not rehash.

This Yeshiva is for Masmidim. This one is for chassisidhe boys. This one is for Shluchim. ETC.

I'd say, that if you want to carry the name Chabad, Lubavitch or Tomchei Temimim you accept all comers (with maybe one exception a decade). And you acceptthem regardless of tuition. Same rules for mivtza tefillin - would you not put tefillin on someone if he doesn't pay foryour time?

Yup. This certainly puts a huge financial responsibility on the administration but that's whty a huge part of that responsibility is fund-raising.

Maybe I answered my barb myself. perhaps the schools who eject and reject students don't carry the Temimim name, and are therefore not included in R kaplan's coverage.

If that's the answer then anyone attending a yeshiva or sending one's child to one, should pay attention to the name. Does it include the word Lubavitch? Temimim?

If not, it ain't a Lubavicth school. It ain't under the Rebbe's accountability standard. And a fine test would also be - do they expel kids? Do they reject kids? Is tuition a determineing factor odf acceptance.

I wonder if the administarotrs of such non-lubavicth schools are acepted in the "Shlcuhim convention".
(6/13/2012 12:06:37 AM)
5
Money
Money is ok to through your children to teach poor parents a lesson
(6/13/2012 12:13:32 AM)
6
In denial.
I personally was kicked out of 3 yeshoivas because I didnt keep seder, and it was a one man's decision.

oh, how chabad is mekarev the rechoikim and meracheik the kroivim.

azkir al hatzion.
(6/13/2012 12:32:37 AM)
7
hmmm
its been a while since i was in yeshiva so i cannot tell you whats happening there today. im just wondering when did this magic change happen
(6/13/2012 12:32:49 AM)
8
parent, educator, etc.
Asa parent we must be involved totally in our child's chinuch. Chinuch is not only academic. It is also behavioral ,emotional, skills that we as parents and we as educators must model and teach to our children/ students. We must build confidence and even pride in one's abilities. As parents and educators if we do our job as needed there will be less of a chance of having children expelled and chas v'shalom going off the derech. As parents we must be more involved with our teachers, We are partners. Children feel more secure, more responsible. when they know their parents and teachers are working together for their betterment.
(6/13/2012 6:44:56 AM)
9
many many places
its a one man decision, because he thinks he knows best.
the elder rosh yeshivos are getting older, and are letting younger men do the work, and i personally know many friends, who are being thrown out the system because of these ignorant people.

and i must say, once youre out the system, its a long, long way back, and these bochurim have to be very strong.

so sad how these things happen
(6/13/2012 6:53:33 AM)
10
The Rebbe's policy
When the Aliya from Moroco started, many children came to learn in Kfar Chabad. The children were not behaving and disrupting the classes. The teachers complained to Rabbi Efrayim Wolff A"H,who wrote to the Rebbe asking what to do.

The Rebbe's answer was quick to come " Take in more"
The obvious answer to this problem is not the child, but the teacher. He has to know how to "Teach" a class of "CHILDREN"
(6/13/2012 7:51:59 AM)
11
To comment #1 & #2
1)99% of the time the child being expelled isn't destroying other neshamos. the teacher simply doesn't know how to deal with him. The solution should be training the teachers, which hasn't been a focus in our schools.


2)There are other consequences to not behaving besides for expelling a student. for some students it is a prize to be expelled.
(6/13/2012 8:41:14 AM)
12
Denial Aint the word
I was expelled from school and it had nothing to do with disturbing the class or influencing the children.
It had to do with a "Rabbi" and his hot temper.

And it was a school with the Lubavitcher Yeshiva name.
(6/13/2012 8:43:15 AM)
13
The Rebbe's policy
It is not so simple that you wipe off the teacher. It's subject matter, length of lessons, type of lesson, ability of child, background of child.....so much goes into educating a child to be a Yeirei Shomayim, mentshlich and motivated to do well in every aspect of their life.
(6/13/2012 8:48:26 AM)
14
London Boy
I was disrigarded from Mechina Layeshivah in a large city not for being a truble maker purli becouse i was unable to learn at their pace, that was 30 years ago I will never forgive them as they still do it today, we see children being distroyed becouse they (the hanholah of the mechina) want to be elitest. well now only H'K'B'H can forgive you whom call yoursellfs Chasidim
(6/13/2012 9:25:26 AM)
15
A CH girls school has asked girls to leave
One' man's decision has caused girls to leave thi sschool because of BORDER-LINE "tznuis" issues-GOOD girls who might have come out more chssidish if the hanoleh would have worked with them.
They have now gone to modern Zionistik schools and will probably not remain Lubavitch in the future..
Oh for shame!! This is certainly not our way!! Whoever makes these decisions will have a lot to answer in the world to come!
(6/13/2012 9:49:32 AM)
16
CH school
My son was expelled from a Lubavitch CH school for a few days. Its a SICK punishment and the teacher was a fool.
(6/13/2012 10:17:55 AM)
17
Please Change your tytle
Please change it that Lubacitch Schools today DO expel children.
Both my sons were expelled for being 'different". (a little out of the box)
Its sheker gamur to say that chabad does not expel kids.
Years back they would work with everyone and now the yeshivos just want the elite - or the bochirim that they don't have to work with.
(6/13/2012 10:26:30 AM)
18
it all depends whats considerd negative
i mean, some would consider bad language a negative influence, others would say improper dress creats bad social norms, and yet some would only consider real dirt to be something wrong. it all depends on what your standards are.

so, wheres the line? this is not a question of nuance. if you cant answer this question, then you have basicly said nothing.

so please, rabbi kaplan, answer.
(6/13/2012 11:13:00 AM)
19
part of the school system
How dare a teacher or principal decide to "throw away" a neshama. Look at how this policy has backfired. Why are there so many kids off? I say that the home is responsible for the way kids act. They see and hear the parents believes. However It is 100% the fault of the school for throwing them out.. If a child is thrown out he will say the heck with you and do the wrong thing. If we had teachers who cared about the kids and not just a job, there would be less kids thrown out. Why does the school not deal with problem kids? To make their job easier they just throw them out!!!!!!!! If you can not deal with problems go become a toilet cleaner!!!!!!! And throw out any toilet that is not working properly. If the Rebbe was here and parents would write that the child was thrown out do you think the Rebbe would say good, get rid of the kid. Where are the mechanchim? Where is the hanhala? Why does CH have so many dropouts? Why does no one care about problem kids? Why are we the only frum community that is not a community? Why do we not have a community council and not rabbonim and not menahalim and rosh yeshivos? I know I am part of the school system in CH and am aware of this first hand.
(6/13/2012 11:32:29 AM)
20
Oh no, not our Lubavitch.
Our schools are perfect, our children are mentschen, our teachers are kind and don't hit or patch, and to top it off no funny business happens!!!!!

We heard the call from the Frideker Rebbe and we followed through. Nothing is wrong here in our Lubavitch...


...................................
Except for the hordes of fried out gheze youth who get tired of being abused by teachers, or beat up by teachers, and see the cracks in the system and become disillusioned.

Except for the rampant discrimination in shidduchim which we whine about like children when there are options, but, they happen to be BT or children of BTs. Heaven forfend we might taint ourselves by marrying someone who doesn't know what its like to be told they have a name and that name matters(even though it does not).

Grow up Lubavitch...Pull your head out of the sand. Kids are being beaten, abused, and worse and you refuse to see it. You claim it makes you sad, so you pretend like it doesn't happen, and it gets worse and becomes a bigger problem than it needed.

You have social problems. Deal with them!
(6/13/2012 12:09:51 PM)
21
Really?
There appears to be a HUGE discrepancy between the theory "We don't expel students" and the practice. Rabbi Kaplan needs to answer to all those MANY bochrim who were thrown out of yeshivos and bear the scars, how that happened if we don't do it!
(6/13/2012 12:35:24 PM)
22
teacher in our school
as a teacher, I know how we talk about students. This one is not the way we want, get rid of him/her. Please who is taking responsibility for our kids? IT is easier to just throw out and not have to deal with it and go home and watch your shows. Rabbi Kaplan? Principals? Who does a parent go to to discuss this. There's a school i know that is the quickest to throw kids into the street.
(6/13/2012 1:27:32 PM)
23
please please
can someone give me a number to reach rabbi Kaplan?
(6/13/2012 2:04:42 PM)
24
Lies
Every yeshivas is throwing out at least 5-10 students a year, I was kicked out of three yeshivas, it's sad how they can say, "we don't kick kids out" total BS
(6/13/2012 3:57:32 PM)
25
REALLY!?!
TOTAL DENIAL!!!!!THE YESHIVOS ARE A MONOPOLY[THEY PICK AND CHOOSE WHO THEY WANT TO KEEP IN THEIR CLASSROOMS... and if the parents have MONEY.. they will accomodate to all the measures possible!!THE YESHIVA SYSTEM IS FAULTY
(6/13/2012 5:55:06 PM)
26
Oh yes we do....
My son was definitely expelled from lubav yeshiva. It was a trauma that no one truly recovers from. Are the rabbis older and wiser now? I hope they understand the damage they do and become Baal tshuvahs.
(6/13/2012 7:28:26 PM)
27
The ABANDONED YOUTH
The statements being made here are so so simplistic and naive as to border on the complete ridiculousness .
This is the gravest issue facing our movement and STILL no one is REALLY dealing with it .
On the one hand , I challenge any person to a 5 min. conversation where i will convince them of MANY situations where the child MUST be kicked out - and they will agree.
On the other hand ,Lubavitch is not seriously addressing the issue of the kids who don't "fit" in.
When was the last time that Rabbi Kaplan sat in a classroom with a bunch of teenagers who have no interest and sleep EVERY SINGLE DAY during class despite the teacher trying all/every method of persuasion ? When was the last time Rabbi Kaplan ACTUALLY taught a grade on a day to today basis, for that matter ?
This is not a criticism of Rabbi Kaplan - CHAS V'SHOLOM - he's great, and I watch all his videos and follow his advise etc.,but, the problem is ,we have many experts who have sadly left the classroom and lecture about what needs to be done , when in fact ,currently, every new year ,we face new levels of difficulties which need solutions.
Also, a major point has to made how we must distinguish between children till the age of 14 - and after,and then further .Do we treat a 15 year old as an 18 year old ? One can be just too young to be making the right choices while the other deliberately chooses the wrong way -
these are all illustrations of complex problems that are never properly discussed or analysed.
Lubavitch should be waging a war- armed with the weapons of Chochmo Bina Daas and Ahava and Chesed - on ignorance and apathy amongst di aygenner kinder; meanwhile , we're either trapped in the blame game or planning the next ground breaking of the newest 10 million dollar center for jewish life........
We should call this generation of chabad "The Abandoned Youth" .
How IS THIS ALL GONNA CHANGE ???

YOU tell me....
(6/13/2012 11:04:39 PM)
28
can't get into yeshiva
my son is a chassidishe boy to the best of his ability, sincere, enjoys school, not rebellious and yes we pay full tuition. He's ready for zal and so far 3 yeshivas in a row told us - No sorry, we can't take him because he is behind in gemorra. Sorry he doesn't fit in. Sorry we can't accomodate his learning level. So yeshivas take boys with better learning skills who don't really want to be there and boys who want to be there, can't get in.
The real problem is no accountability on the part of the yeshivas, and no integrated Lubavitch school system because each and every school is an island alone and they don't balance out the schools to fit different levels of learning and inspiration for the boys.
(6/14/2012 12:41:49 AM)
29
reality
parents should make sure to raise their kids with proper manners and don't just drop them in the yeshiva.
"Some" of those kids are really chutzpa and can really bother and intimidate others.I don't believe that by staying in yeshiva is also the answer,because most of them don't change.If the yeshiva feels that they cann't serve this kind of kid, at least they are being honest and the parents should accept reality and do the best to deal with the child immediate needs .
(6/14/2012 1:02:40 AM)
30
Bedidi Haveh Uvdoh
A bochur in ZAL in a prominent Chabad school, a yiras shomayim, keeps sedorim, vechulu vechulu, is expelled from the school because he wouldn't "understand the shiurim of the rosh yeshiva". We don't expel trouble makers? We expel the good kids who can't (by themsleves) make a leining. It shouldn't be happening. But it is. So where's the leadership? In the 60's and 70's they expelled nobody and MOST now are bringing up frum chassidish families. What happens to the bochur today and all those like him? What kind of families are they going to bring up? Where's the ahavas yisroel of the roshei yeshiva?
(6/14/2012 2:27:52 AM)
31
suggestion
There's no question that while the roshei yeshivas are applauding themselves, there is, indeed, no accountability to either their communities or their funders. I propose that our yeshiva system initiate a "litmus test" with certain "factors" that have to be viewed publicly. For instance, each school should be assessed for: academic achievements (with clearly defined goals), Yiddishkeit achievements (with clearly defined goals), teacher accountability (with clearly defined goals), student attitudes (with clearly defined goals) and parental support (with clearly defined goals). And like the online lists of doctors and hospitals, graduates (or expellees) should rate the institutions with a five-star rating system.
(6/14/2012 8:38:17 AM)
32
ye right
chabad only expels students when they dont pay tuition
(6/18/2012 12:48:11 PM)
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