Jan 22, 2012
Take Back Our Neighborhood
. . .

From the COLlive Inbox: With landowners and investors attracting yuppies to Crown Heights, we need to do what Satmar is doing in Williamsburg. We already pay a premium to live in this neighborhood.

Dear friends, landowners, community leaders and community members,

I ask you to please take a moment and read this letter with an open heart.

Demographic changes are swiftly changing the culture of our neighborhood. Local Lubavitch landowners and outside chassidic investors are making Crown Heights an attractive location for young, non Jewish tenants. In fact, it has come to attention that some investors are specifically targeting their advertising for this purpose. This is clearly seen with the new PLEX building Montgomery Street and Nostrand Avenue.

Young, upwardly mobile professionals may seem to be pleasant tenants who bring in reliable income, but they also introduce a very different way of life: new nightclubs and bars, sun tanning on rooftops, bike lanes and an increasing amount of immodesty on our streets. Some of these changes are hard to ignore; for instance, one of the sun tanning parties are visible for our young children to see from the window of a local school.

Rising rent compounds the problem and makes it even harder for our young couples and families to compete in the rental market.

Friends, we pay a premium to live in this neighborhood, and we strive to create an atmosphere of holiness and kedusha for our children and teens. These yuppies bring pritzus to our neighborhood. They come out at night to our restaurants and act inappropriately while waiting on line etc.

We would hope that landlords, especially the Crown Heights landlords, would put a priority on our values, but sadly the need to make money is taking precedence for them. Some young agents and landlords will specifically rent to these goyim instead of a fellow Jewish family. Sadly, some homeowners have gone as far as bringing these yuppies as tenants in their home in prime locations.

Therefore, I suggest taking appropriate actions to help preserve the special the unique nature of our neighborhood.

We must form a group to come up with effective ways to reinforce the observant Jewish character of crown heights. The Satmars in Williamsburg are faced with the same problem and have made a successful committee to curb this issue. This could include meeting with investors from our own community and possibly outside, subsidizing rent for our own community members or other creative solutions.

Friends, I too am a landlord. Yes, it may seem easier to bring these young people as tenants. However, think about how they will change the face of our unique community In spiritual and physical sense. They are buying condos from our OWN landlords in the heart of the community. If we don't give precedence to our own couples and help our communities expand, Then who will?

As a community we have survived through thick and thin. We have survived through the riots to help preserve our community. Why are we bringing in more outsiders with open hands?

Please help us in defending the special, unique place that is Crown Heights for our children and their future.

Thank you,
A Crown Heights Resident


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Opinions and Comments
1
Our neighborhood
It's about time someone addressed this. But, for some reason no one said anything when Basil opened their doors for the purpose of attracting Yuppies. I wonder the reason for that.
(1/22/2012 5:44:17 PM)
2
pritzus
Wait !! abt pritzus what abt all the pritzus that comes from the "frum" young ladies the way they dress on the streets & ur concerned abt the pritzus from the yuppies ? 1st deal with that 1st u don't even need 2 worry abt the yuppies.
(1/22/2012 5:50:38 PM)
3
A resident
This is excellent idea. Everybody can testify to this fact that these goyims are invading this neighborhood and some people built fancy hotel and restaurant for them in by the bank across from 770 to cater to their needs
(1/22/2012 5:58:19 PM)
4
renting to lubabs
Yuppies also bring the rent up - a one bedroom to yuppies can rent for much more, making the rents go higher and this in effect results in higher rent for everyone - lubab couples too.
(1/22/2012 5:58:59 PM)
5
anonymity
unless you're willing put a name to the letter, it is a waste of time and mind space.
(1/22/2012 6:02:25 PM)
6
very well said
why don't you sign your name?
(1/22/2012 6:13:23 PM)
7
more info
please post you name and contact information so we can make this happen.
or is this just another op-ed
(1/22/2012 6:16:05 PM)
8
THIS IS NOT POLAND 50 YEARS AGO
Yes, ina perfect world our kids would only be exposed to what we can custom make....BUT THIS IS THE REAL WORLD....Since when does free market business pause for the religious beliefs of people? That is very shallow and close minded of you....we live in New York City....what do you think the shluchim think when they move to campus shlichus?....we do not live in a perfect world...people are welcome to buy whatever land they want and build wherever they want.....
(1/22/2012 6:22:11 PM)
9
Thank you!
you're 100% percent right and i applaud you as a Landlord to be able to look past the easy income and feel a responsibility to our community.
THank you, I hope you get a committee together.
As a homeowner down near Maple street I fully support you!!
(1/22/2012 6:23:45 PM)
10
young mama
tell our community council to help us pay rent !!!!!!
(1/22/2012 6:25:34 PM)
11
young family
we should not post on craigslist only o COL . thats how we make sure not to get white trash mixed in here .This place is getting worse and worse. We need to strenthen our community . LEADERS WHERE ARE YOU ??????? RABONIM WHERE ARE YOU??????????
(1/22/2012 6:31:23 PM)
12
Be careful!
You could get into a LOT of trouble if you discriminate regarding who you rent or sell to.
(1/22/2012 6:33:09 PM)
13
What if...
those so called 'yuppies' tanning on roofs are really our own children?
(1/22/2012 6:37:50 PM)
14
well said!!
I agree.
(1/22/2012 6:45:10 PM)
15
Kan Tzivah Hashem Es Habrochah!
Well said. Thank you!
(1/22/2012 6:49:04 PM)
16
Be Careful
Whatever is done, be very careful that it fully complies with the law. Remember that in most situations it is illegal to refuse to rent or sell to someone based on their religion, race, gender and whether or not they have children. (For rentals, there may be a few exceptions for small, owner-occupied buildings.) As a people who far too often have been the victims of disrimination, we must make sure we fully comply with anti-discriminatin laws when it comes to the sale and rental of property. Please consult with a competent lawyer. In many states it is illegal for a newspaper or other media to advertise that a job or rental is limited to a person of a certain religion.
(1/22/2012 6:50:11 PM)
17
Discrimination is against the law
And not only that, the "young professionals" have the money!
(1/22/2012 6:51:45 PM)
18
bachur
It seems like that these yuppies have a sweet tooth. I have seen them many times on my way to night seder in gombos licking donuts and going on to do other things. Its disgusting that they do this.
(1/22/2012 6:57:38 PM)
19
Did anyone say "where's out leadership" yet?
Let's make this clear once and for all: Forget our leadership because they sure forgot you!

There is not leadership. The rabbonim are busy fighting with themselves as if someone cares, the vaad hakohol is broke and incompetent, the mosdos only cares about themselves, so who is left? oh, us, people!

Stop building hopes. Sadly, there is no chance for CH to ever shape up. You want a good community, good chinuch and environment? move out and move on! I'm sure the Rebbe is shepping so much nachas by all the selfish people living in this community.
(1/22/2012 7:06:29 PM)
20
it's not discriminating
what he is trying to say is don't intentionally post apartment listings on craigslist, rather on COL, you have tons of options.

There are plenty of yidden looking for apartments, but dont try to make ch into a "trendy" up and coming neighborhood.

Yes, there is an issue with tznius here, but will it REALLY help to bring in people who foster that descent in chassidishkeit??

Its very sad that people are so driven by money these days, and for a couple more dolars they'd rather rent to non jewish people
(1/22/2012 7:12:58 PM)
21
Discriminating Against Blacks and Jews
Well it is also discrimination when they only bring whites that's against the fair housing laws TOO,

Are we here just for the money???
Where is the chasidus and all the rebbes teachings?
this young Realtors are the Problem
(1/22/2012 7:14:43 PM)
22
right on!
vey well said!!!
and why is everyone so concerned about who wrote what?!?
the point is the message- who cares who wrote it!
(1/22/2012 7:17:52 PM)
23
the rebbe
I remember on yud bais tammuz 5745 the rebbe spoke by a farbrengen about building affordable housing for large families. They did it in kfar chabad, but nothing was done
it crown heights. Do you believe that something will be done now?
(1/22/2012 7:28:04 PM)
24
mendek
without your name your artticle is worthless....what are you worried about...you are a coward. your idea is correct, buit it infuriates me when you hide behind your words...dont pen if you cant sign your name.
(1/22/2012 7:29:24 PM)
25
we need the yuppies
without them we cannot be mekayem what it says in kuntres hoavoda be happy that you have a nissayon and you have the power to withstand it
(1/22/2012 7:33:13 PM)
26
hold on a sec.....
I see these yuppies too and I thought they were just replacing the 'other type' of undesirables which I thought was s good thing! I come from London where we are used to living amongst goyim and learnt from a young age to turn our heads away and say b"h I was born a Jew!
(1/22/2012 7:35:11 PM)
27
home owner
I'm not wealthy, I own a house and yes, I don't rent nor want to rent to yidden. Yidden come and start bargaining the price, they come with kids and tell you its too small or never move out so your place is a wreck, they complain about everything--maybe switch countertop to granite, maybe break this wall, maybe paint....goyim come with credit report in hand practically begging to be your tenant....so there, why on earth would I rent to yidden? I'm not wealthy and rely on this rent , as to ur other points ie bars etc, you have a point, but then again, its everywhere,,,,its the world and u can't escape it.
(1/22/2012 7:35:40 PM)
28
RESIDENT
CROWN HEIGHTS LETS DO IT TOGETHER, WE CAN
THE REBBE ALWAYS WANTED THIS TO BE THE Neighborhood
WHERE THE SHCHINA IS, SO LET KEEP IT HOLY.
(1/22/2012 7:39:14 PM)
29
to # 8 THIS IS NOT POLAND 50 YEARS AGO
your kids must be under 8 years old. Wait till YOU have to worry about your kids, and relatives, going to bars, and suntanning roofs, etc. You seem to be looking at this from a very benign standpoint, like if its not affecting you today, maybe its not so bad. That is lacking foresight, which yidden always valued, and the Rebbe was so incredible about. We may be high profile and mix with yuppies and politicians, but we are JEWS, get it straight. Thats what we're here for....for the Rebbe and Torah. I hope those values are still priority by you and you just don't understand....and I hope that you understand soon.
(1/22/2012 7:40:26 PM)
30
Daniel Botnick
This is a well thought out proposal and it can be executed within the law (as Reshimas haBatim might not have been}. That said, it would require a major effort by affluent yungleit to bring it to fruition.
(1/22/2012 7:44:17 PM)
31
The Face Of Lubavitch Is the Face Of The World
It is the same problem with us having our own "yuppies" as part of the community.
(1/22/2012 7:52:26 PM)
32
#16, the shulchon oruch says differently
The halocho REQUIRES us to discriminate in favor of our own, so we have no right to obey any law that says otherwise. Learn the Rebbe's sichos from the 'lameds on this subject. The Rebbe was very clear that it is forbidden al pi halocho to sell to the element that was moving in and destroying the neighborhood. As chassidim the Rebbe's word is the law. However your advice is well taken that one must take legal advice in order to try to avoid being caught breaking the law.
(1/22/2012 7:52:37 PM)
33
DID YOU PAY YOUR RENT THIS MONTH
Crown Heightser who don't pay their rent, "es Kumt mir" on time make it extremely tempting to rent to people that will pay rent on time.
The 2 and 3 family homeowners are paying mortgages, taxes, insurance, heat and utilities, must get their rent in a timely fashion. They are not Tzedaka funds but are homeowners with responsibilies to fulfill.
(1/22/2012 7:57:11 PM)
34
Listen to this
I am a teacher at a local preschool program and this year we go two new kids in the class. THEY ARE NOT JEWISH AND BRING TREIF TO SCHOOL ? Does any one care I asked the mother how they landed in crown heighs she said she saw an ad on CRAIGSLIST for a new condo on lefferts next to fanmily dollar and bought it. WHY WASNT THIS POSTED ON COL IF A LUBAVITCHER BUILT THE CONDOS????????????????
(1/22/2012 8:01:24 PM)
35
a mother in the heights.,
is is not discrimination that these lubavitch real tors only want to these goyim since they so dont want to ''BOTHER'' with their own community ? that is a point to consider
(1/22/2012 8:03:24 PM)
36
Aizehu chacham Haroeh es Hanolad
Instead of thinking about your immediate monetary gain, THINK also about your children"s future many steps down the line! VDa"l
(1/22/2012 8:05:34 PM)
37
a rebbi in OT
rabbi lustig put up paper on the windows of the classrooms since last summer there was a nice party on one of the rooftops on lincoln place . it was clearly visible for the kids to see. I drove around the block and saw a lubav coming out of house, HE WAS RENTING TO THESE GOYIM . COULDNT HE GET FRUM TENANTS. lincoln is not far. many poeple would rent from him . How sad is this getting.
(1/22/2012 8:06:24 PM)
38
a resident
Eshel and basil have what they want fancy accomodation and fancy restaurant
(1/22/2012 8:08:32 PM)
39
capitalism kool aid
The reality is that frum Jews have little loyalty to each other. When I lived in CH and tried to get a section 8, I was told there were non available, yet someone with connections got it without a problem.

Rent today for kolel yungerleit is almost $1000 for a badly kept up one bedroom apt.

The problem is that frumkeit is all about bein odom lamokom, bein odom lachaveiro is out the window, unless it's specifically tezdakah.

For the most part, frum yidden have drunk the capitalist Kool Aid, and subscribe to supply and demand market forces.

In truth however, they should be accommodating fellow Jews to obtain affordable housing.

Instead of throwing money to help people with kaparos and save $20, they should help people with their rent. Instead, people are more concerned with getting filthy rich off their fellow Jews.

Here's a litmus test, would you pay an extra $1 to dry clean your suit by a yid?
(1/22/2012 8:09:45 PM)
40
ch realtor
if you dont post on craigslist, sublet.com and other trash sites then you want have an issue with discrimination . simple as that . And also you will have the apartment rented to a wonderful frum couple. simple as that. WE MAKE OUR OWN PROBLEMS
(1/22/2012 8:11:14 PM)
41
A landlord
Not interested in getting into the right/wrong debate but will share a story for others to consider. I looked to rent an apt to community members once. After sitting on it vacant for a couple of weeks I mentioned to the neighbors that once I hit 6 weeks without taking in some rent to cover the mortgage, I am going to be forced to cast a wider net and look to some secular sites to see who else might be interested in renting this apartment. After another two weeks of not hearing back from the neighbors I posted and got some good tenants.

To make a long story short, I had a young very secular Israeli renting from me who was not very interested in any of the rouchnious aspects that is offered in CH. After some time I had him and his gentile gril friend over for a shabbos meal, he began to go to 770 more often, etc. etc. I was a very minimal part in his journey towards becoming a frum yid but fast forward to today and while I no longer live in CH, I've heard he and his mi-gouerd wife are raising fine cahsidesher kinderlach. This could be a fluke that I was zocheh to be a part of but if we work to truly be an or lagoyim and are successfull at it, I don't think outside influences are strong enough to combat such conviction.
(1/22/2012 8:19:39 PM)
42
wake up - this may be a blessing
#8 touched on a very important point. What do Shluchim do when thety move out of town? yeh yeh, i know many are right away saying the Rebbe protects them. well the Rebbe will protect those living in Kan tzivah..

that said, there's another obvious thing that occurs on shlichus. The parents and the kids know that they are differrent. they stand for something more. how do you think the kids know?? because their parents teach them that at every opportunity. and the parents learn that with extra chassidus they are hoepfully learning. so when they go out, they are not surprised by what they see but are prepared.

surely they are careful not to take them where they dont belong etc.

also, on shlichus, they are actually LEADING their lives not just taking community values passively. they obviously have no choice. so their chassidishkiet is active and alive. (sadly shluchim also have their challenges) .

Dear neighbors and friends. WAKE UP! take your life and your kids life and be attentive to it. Every day. yes, wake up and doin't expect others to create an atmosphere so that you could just give birth to children and then go on vacation till a bar/bas mitxvah and a wedding.

thanks these people that are coming to the neighborhood and giivng us all a wakeup call. the cacoon you thought you were living has obviously not been working!
(1/22/2012 8:27:55 PM)
43
Pure Stupidity from Chefmeke
So let me guess if one of your children didn't dress up to the standards of crown heights you would be among the front runners of Crown Heights shooing them out?!
The reason we loose so many of our young ones is because of people like you. Close minded people whose only solution to a problem is to isolate the person like a disease. These people are not a disease they are our people. They are mikaravim, they are our children, our friends children, and you should be ashamed of yourself for even thinking this up let alone right the article
(1/22/2012 8:43:51 PM)
44
13 is right..
and guess what? anyone can live whever they want. there si nothing we can do tt stop them.
(1/22/2012 9:24:37 PM)
45
I Agree 100%
We have to do whatever we can to try to keep our neighborhood as holy and as pure as possible! Or at least to prevent it from getting worse than it is! Just think of it, when the shluchim come in for convention, they look forward to being in a special, heilige environment which is much more pure than what they are constantly exposed to all year round. We must do all we can to preserve that.
To #8: This is not a matter of being close minded. This is the Rebbe's community. If someone davka wants to mix with the goyishe crowds, R"L, then they should move elsewhere.
(1/22/2012 9:33:43 PM)
46
trash talk
Personally I find them all a breath of fresh air!

Think long and deep into what the OpED is all about and you'll see. One disgruntled neighbor craoking about sun bathing. Give me a break - I bet these are our kids - guaranteed - some of us have totally put our heads way deep in the sand.
(1/22/2012 9:35:22 PM)
47
Why not move to Detroit?
Houses are cheap here. There are good schools and a thriving frum community and lots of opportunities. The Rebbe did not want us to stay in a ghetto.
(1/22/2012 9:37:40 PM)
48
Hashgocho Protis
They are here so they can be taught the sheva mitzvos bnei Noach.
(1/22/2012 9:54:28 PM)
49
shlichus
it looks like it is the right time to go on shlichus
(1/22/2012 9:57:24 PM)
50
Rabbanim need to get involved
What's worse-yuppies or drug dealers?
There is a trend in Crown Heights that one landlord will see that someone else is getting a higher rent than them and will then raise their rent. Jewish landlords, maybe through the Rabbanim, need to set a guidelines on how much rent can be charged to anash.
(1/22/2012 9:58:21 PM)
51
If you care...
Bitterness will not get us anywhere. Neither will sarcasm, hot-headedness or rash behavior. We are a community who, has chosen to live here because this is where the Frierdiker Rebbe, b'hashgacha protis, saw it fit to settle; where the Rebbe continued to encourage us to settle and where we try to keep kahn tziva Hashem es habracha alive and well. If you care about our neighborhood, please do not direct spite and negativity at its innocent inhabitants. If you care about our neighborhood, don't waste your precious time writing unproductive comments on websites. If you care, DO SOMETHING CONSTRUCTIVE, PRODUCTIVE, MEANINGFUL and HELPFUL for our families living here. If you write articles, write them for the sake of action - not for sensationalism or to be holier than thou, and back them up with concrete plans. Action speaks louder than a thousand words.
(1/22/2012 10:01:42 PM)
52
Keep the Chabad headquarters true!
BS''D
Look, they have African American, Hispanic, Russian, and Asian neighborhoods. We should have one too. It's a testimony to the diversity of New York, and if we were all a milkshake, it would just be another place. What do you say SENATOR? :)
(1/22/2012 10:34:18 PM)
53
making our own problems
We make our own problems by advertising in places that atract these people instead of frum families. one agent told me he doesnt want to bother with lubavichers. how sad that we bedavka are running after goyim. my child has two goyishe kids in the class. i asked the teacher and she heard that the parents bought a new condo here from a lubav. how sad.
(1/22/2012 10:37:42 PM)
54
rochi
I realize the need for the bottom line, but come on, the word "no" is very simple, very short, and it packs a powerful meaning.....let them know they are not welcome in CH
(1/22/2012 11:00:55 PM)
55
Same Sad Story
Unfortunately, as was posted above, frummer Yidden can make the lousiest tenants. My friend, who owns a house here, rented the 1st floor to a goy & the basement to a freier Yid because she couldn't find anyone here with a steady job or income.

Also, as someone posted above, frummer Yidden often make the most unreasonable demands. The only reason I got my apartment was because someone at the last minute dangled the lease in front of my landlord, refusing to sign it until a big renovation was made (he wasn't legally required). She thought she could force him to give in. When he finally said, "I'm not going to rent to you," she laughed, thinking he'd be desperate enough to reconsider.

Guess what? Five minutes later I called. I ran over & signed the lease, paid him 1st & last; end of story. That lady was gnashing her teeth for quite a while.

(1/22/2012 11:09:25 PM)
56
Affordable rentals and homes
Real issue is that so many families in Crown Heights can not afford to move from their crowded conditions to better accommodations. Affordable rentals, condos or homes do not sit long enough on market to be rented or sold to "outsiders"
(1/22/2012 11:34:41 PM)
57
raise the rent and higher the prices for houses
it's clear that crown heights as we know it is changing rapidly.
young lubavs can't afford it. it's become a rich man's place. funny, the rebbe envisioned something completely different. houses are being sold for prices 5 to 10 times what they are worth and rents for matchbox spaces is just ridiculous. if your old and bought a house when it was 50,000 good for you the rest of us....
(1/22/2012 11:54:10 PM)
58
TheRealJoe
1) It's simple WE need to revisit what the REBBE said and DO exactly that I am sure that there's a legal way to follow the REBBE'S orders.

2) the fact that we have Tznius issues from inside the community doesn't mean that we need to compound that problem, it can very easily lead to inter marriage Ch'V.

3) Yes the fact that Jewish renters and landlords in certain cases don't treat each other right needs to be fixed but the answer to that isn't to invite Park Slope to move in.

Hopefully there'e going to be a turn for the better.
(1/23/2012 12:03:33 AM)
59
safer
tho it may be worse in some cases, wont it make the area safer to have more white people to gentrify the area and push the crimey elements out of town?
(1/23/2012 12:10:55 AM)
60
lllegal and stupid
What you are suggesting here is illegal. I really have nothing else to write, this article is pathetic
(1/23/2012 12:14:15 AM)
61
Is this a joke?
I'm not sure of the author is joking or serious. Does the author prefer having hi/her children mugged, robbed, and beaten, rather than having white yuppies as neighbors? Would he rather have continued shootings on the streets each night than decent non-Jewish neighbors who's dress code might not mach that of the shulchan aruch? Is it better to have bikes and cars stolen than to have a nice bar in the neighborhood? Our community will never be 100% Jewish there will be gentiles living among us for as long as we live here. I'm just happy the newest wave of new residents are put together and skilled people who have jobs and will make this neighborhood go up in value instead of jobless, drug addicted, criminals who have been living here all this time.
(1/23/2012 12:23:11 AM)
62
Opportunity
A great opportunity for Crown Heightsers to get into the Hafatzah in your own backyard mode
(1/23/2012 12:49:02 AM)
63
Ummm
"what Satmar is doing" is not posting chilul hashem racist disregard the law articles online.
They have leadership in their community so they don't decide everything's kosher to make another buck.
(1/23/2012 12:58:32 AM)
64
Ive been hearing this ad nauseum
The goyim here that rape, destroy, vandalize and kill are not the problem. The real problem is the well behaved yuppies who say good morning and are well behaved and actually care about the neighborhood. Wake up you don't live in a ghetto and if you have to deal with goyim let it be nice ones you dont have to worry about killing
(1/23/2012 3:13:49 AM)
65
to 39
why do the jews charge more? If a jew and a non-jew charge the same - then i will buy by the jew (even if he is a longer walk) but if the jew is more expensive for no reason - then i will support the non-jew. Being jewish is no reason to overpay. Same with food.
(1/23/2012 6:02:58 AM)
66
jewish neighbors vs. goyish neighbors
We had goyishe neighbors they respected us and we got along then we got Jewish neighbors and suffice to say life is complicated...
(1/23/2012 7:29:20 AM)
67
Too big a risk
If it becomes known that Crown Heights Jewish landlords discriminate, they will become rich pickings for lawyers. The landlords will end up paying damages sufficient to pay the tenants' rent for a year and for their lawyers to spend winter in Bermuda!
(1/23/2012 8:02:01 AM)
68
It's food for thought
The alter rebbe wanted the russians to win over Napoleon even though that meant more physical hardship for yidden...
(1/23/2012 9:22:54 AM)
(1/23/2012 9:58:50 AM)
70
Chabad imploding.
As one who has been around Chabad for forty years as a baal teshuvah I see Chabad imploding on many fronts ,I have not been to C.H in ten years but even then it was not the same with all the partitions in 770 and all the crazy Mashicists .I now see Kollels opening up and taking away many congregants from Chabad who are seeking some normalcy and less drama and more learning .Yes I still go to Chabad but I see what's going on and I hope the leadership wakes up .Also C.H is not Jerusalem or even Tel Aviv which is holier consider Aliyah if you want a real Jewish life.
(1/23/2012 10:54:07 AM)
71
interesting
so why don't frum yidden rent in the apartments on crown/nostrand and mont/nostrand that are looking for people to rent there- the non-jewish super is awesome in crown/nostrand (he knows how to fix anything)
(1/23/2012 10:57:05 AM)
72
A radical idea
I have a crazy and radical suggestion. How about encouraging young adults to get an education and pursue a decent career so they can afford these same apartments instead of asking for help with the prices? I won't even go near the insanity of posting an article like this on a public website. You're just begging for a whole host of discrimination lawsuits and you'd deserve them too.
(1/23/2012 11:06:13 AM)
73
Who do you think you are?
I'm sorry but this does not seem right. Who are you to have the right to decide who moves when and where? Your religious beliefs are yours and yours only! You have no right deciding/effecting who you want and don't want moving into Crown Heights. If you have a problem you have to live with it like the rest of the people in this country. You are NOT special!
This ideology only spreads prejudice and hate, there is enough of that in this country already, you don't have to make it worse.
(1/23/2012 11:21:43 AM)
74
WOWWW
This is the saddest funniest thing I've ever read in my life...
You're saying you should kick educated people out who can afford rent, and not that you need to educate your youth so they can get a job, other then at 1saleaday...
This is the saddest thing I've ever seen out of your insane neighborhood. Wow...
Of course your religion will fall if this is how you react to natural evolution that takes place in any environment. WOW!!!
(1/23/2012 11:35:31 AM)
75
Mass Migration:
I think we should all pack our bags and start small communities all over Eretz Yisroel. Mass Aliya.
Moshiach now!!!!!!!
(1/23/2012 11:36:59 AM)
76
Oy Gevalt!!!
Will there really be bike lanes? How disgusting! We need to shelter out children from exercise and pritzus.
Next time I am sun bathing I will make sure to look around and see if there are any peeping toms like you around
(1/23/2012 12:17:13 PM)
77
Or, instead of complaining
you can make Aliyah and live in proper closed communities. Dear god - you're in New York! Get over it. You chose the big apple/big world/west, live with it or move here.
(1/23/2012 12:38:56 PM)
78
number 42, WAKE UP;
Yes, you had better wake up. Don't you see what is going on in this neighborhood already???The tznius is almost non existant, we are at a critically vulnerable stage in our own circles and having a bunch of yuppys is for sure going to make things a billion times worse. Don't kid yourself and try to make it okay, because it's absolutely not!!!!
The owner of the plex building is affiliated with b & h. Perhaps they should be told that they will be boycotted if they don't try to accomodate the type of people befitting our neighborhood. Yes, we have a right to demand that, after all were it not for us holding firm to this neighborhood it would have become another brownsville or harlem.
(1/23/2012 1:10:10 PM)
79
we're not living in a ghetto, but
we have to remember that each circumstance is different....

in other frum Jewish communities there are also outside influences loud & strong-ie. Los Angeles where billboards and neighbors portray a lifestyle so foreign to ours. Notwithstanding that, B"H people have had the siyata d'shmaya to raise very fine and wholesome families (they must have had built very strong, loving homes).

But this case is different!

Crown Heights is not just another neighborhood. It's where the Rebbe has declared 'kan tzivah Hashem es habrocha", the Rebbe's shchuna etc. should have a higher standard of living! Crown Heights is a place that brings light and inspiration all across the world, it's our spiritual nerve center, and it deserves to be on a higher level. Like Yerushalayim, the kosel and other holy sites-we need to preserve its sanctity......

when the Rebbe said that we should do whatever we can to bring Moshiach, he meant each and every one of us-even the landlords and businessmen amongst us!!!

Dear landlords & building developers-
If it means a little thinner wallet and a budgeted life vs. building a sanctified community-for yourself, your children and for Jews worldwide -please choose wisely-we are counting on you!!!!

a concerned Jew

(1/23/2012 1:11:57 PM)
80
Hashem
Maybe it's Hashem's will that goyim and secular Jews move to the neighborhood so that you have the opportunity to show them chassidut and do some kiruv.
(1/23/2012 1:21:02 PM)
81
Rent
Start a group to help crown heights residents pay the rent and landlords will be happy to rent to them over yuppies. Landlords need to pay their bills, if local residents do not want ti or can not pay it, they need to do what they must.
(1/23/2012 1:21:36 PM)
82
From the author of the op-ed:
I am in no way saying to discriminate.

I feel that if we work together we can have condos that are a tad less fancy yet more affordable. In addition we should be using frum sites like COL etc. to post apartments.

I do not have any concrete ideas of how to solve the issue of rising unaffordable rents and unfair rental practices to our own community, however if you are willing to work in unity and in respectful manner to discuss this issue and perhaps get a committee to work on this, feel free to email soscheights@gmail.com.

You need not to be a big name or big shot, just a willingness to work together for the benefit of expanding our community.
(1/23/2012 1:41:23 PM)
83
resident
lets all act mature and help out and join this guy who wants the best for our community , Rabosai, dont you see what he is saying is for our benefit, he is right our neighberhood should be expanding gwith jews not with goyim
(1/23/2012 2:04:17 PM)
84
Satmar model won't work
1. Even this letter was anonymous. You propose that we all go out and harass these new residents out of the neighborhood. That requires a unity and means of enforcement that we don't have. I, for one, would not agree with any extreme (or illegal) methods.

2. Your battle with the economic reality is a foregone conclusion; it can result only in new chilul haShem. We have enough of that as it is.

3. You take pride in foregoing the rent premium these people would pay. I have another suggestion: donate the difference to help struggling parents with tuition and improve our yeshivos. It is a more productive way to improve the yiddishkeit (and tznius) in the neighborhood. And it will help melamdim pay their rent too.
(1/23/2012 2:42:30 PM)
85
judith
The laws that protect Jews from discrimination in this country protect young professinals, too. You can't have it both ways! How would we like it if nobody would want to rent to shluchim because it would change the neighborhood? We benefit from a free society, a society where discrimination is ILLEGAL!
(1/23/2012 5:42:20 PM)
86
MOSES
Let me get this straight. The rebbe mhm told us to pursue the shevah mitzvos bnei noach. As many will not go far to pursue this, the eibishter is delivering potential customers via hashgocha protis ito our lap, granted that they may behave in ways we try to avoid but this is what we are here to change. And yet people complain and try to make others wrong instead of going out to try to influence the world with the light of torah? Is all we can do hide and complain? Is this what the rebbe mhm taught us? Kher a velt he said!!!! Veiter
(1/23/2012 5:49:46 PM)
87
Full of .....
As a crown heights resident I am very happy that the " yuppies" moving in. The real problem is not the kids going of the derech because if this was the case then no Chabad community in the world would have religiouse kids. Some off the best shulichim in the world are bought up multi-cultural communities. Goyim does not equal non frum kids.
The real worry for this "landlord" that these yuppies will expose the grim reality that crown heights is no longer a haven for frum bums who refuse to get a real job and face responsibility of supporting a family. Unlike your fine examples for bum communities like Williamsburg.
(1/23/2012 5:53:47 PM)
88
FYI A crown heights resident
Crown Heights used to be mostly white when the Lubavitch community was established in the 1940s just a little food for thought
(1/23/2012 5:56:45 PM)
89
insulation
instead of continually insulating yourselves why don't you try to actually have a good influence. condemning those around you is not helpful for anyone, you are not being a good influence on your children, those around you...
do what the shluchim do, and look for the good!!!
(1/23/2012 5:57:58 PM)
90
A RESIDENT
Eshel suppose to be for tishrei guests and they collected money for that purpose and now they made fancy hotel to attract these kind of people and they can't discriminate they have to rent it to them
(1/23/2012 6:04:46 PM)
91
Change is For the Better
1) The newcomers are forcing the trash out of the area. Better a suntanning party that you can ignore than a couple of drug deals gone bad and bullets ringing out that could hurt innocent bystanders.

2) I am going to guess that 15% of the newcomers are Jewish. We need to do hafatza and invite them to our homes, not chase them out of theirs.

3) We were never able to take over the whole area the way BP and Willy were because our young people often move away for shlichus. Those who don't feel comfortable in the new Crown Heights should do just that and join shlichus communities where neighbors are not on top of one another as they are in Brooklyn. In Yupetzville, you don't have to see suntanning parties because they're held in fenced backyards (otherwise no insurance for the pool).
(1/23/2012 6:07:10 PM)
92
Boon to Our Merchants
The new residents will bring more money into our shechuna too. The nearest supermarket to Plex is Empire Kosher, so whenever someone runs out of something, that's where they'll go whether they eat kosher or not.

Kingston and Albany Ave merchants like all three Raskins,Mr. Green's, Gombo's, the chocolate shop, Mimulo etc will get plenty of new customers.

These customers don't use food stamps or take things on credit. They pay in full with cash or a good credit card.
(1/23/2012 6:26:57 PM)
93
#75
agree.... wen and where we going??
(1/23/2012 7:19:17 PM)
94
What I saw on the street corner...
These two white folks were standing there. I could hear them talking about tofu and then i saw one pass a small package of tofu to the other one. I just witnessed a tofu deal in our neighborhood! WHAT IS GOING ON HERE???
(1/23/2012 7:43:58 PM)
95
Ouch
It pains me to see supposedly righteous Jews expressing themselves in such intolerant and xenophobic ways.
(1/23/2012 7:57:45 PM)
96
Complete and utter B.S.
Remember that you live in the USA, not mea shaerim. You are in the land of the goyim, be grateful that they let you live your life and observe your religion. A few years ago, that would have been more than enough.

Now, not only do you have the nerve to decide that it’s “your” neighborhood, you now want to prevent anyone a bit different than yourself from living there. The attitude in this article is exactly what’s going to one day get you and your like minded people kicked out.

(1/23/2012 8:32:56 PM)
97
me too
i'm also a real estate owner here and i welcome anyone who seems honest, has good background check and capable of paying rent. i'm not interested in a ghetto and welcome non-religious folks and non-jews. and i'd rather a clean, self-respecting and other-respecting clean-shaven guy over a bearded chassidishe guy whose aprtment attracts rodents and who will squat and owe me months rent who i have to "nebech" evict. i also welcome the bearded chassidim who are honest and clean and respectinful of others. so it's not the bein odom lamokom that concerns me it is the bein odom lachavero, which is kodmo latorah. if you like williamsburg mentality, move there. i think a diverse community will ultimately be better for chassidim - if they learn how to make choices.
(1/23/2012 9:25:26 PM)
98
Walk a Mile in My Shoes
I'm a secular resident of Crown Heights. And I cried for several hours after I read this article. I had no idea that I was so deeply despised by so many neighbors I have never met, neighbors who will always hate me no matter what I do. My individual character is irrelevent to the discussion. One commenter went so far as to label me "white trash."

Nevermind that I would never in a million years sunbathe in plain sight of a school, regardless of the cultural background of its students.
Nevermind that I would never in a million years be loud or obnoxious in a restaurant where other patrons are just trying to enjoy a nice meal.
Nevermind the 20 years of my life that I spent in schools which emphasized respect for and sensitivity to cultural differences. Nevermind the years I've spent putting these ideals into practice. Nevermind my own deep and abiding faith in G-d and the Ahavat Habriot that is such a major part of this...
Nevermind that I am the grandchild of Holocaust survivors, some of whom were Jewish and some of whom weren't.
Nevermind that my Gentile relatives risked their own lives to save Jewish lives because they could not and would not be made to believe that their friends and neighbors were somehow fundamentally different from themselves. They certainly could not believe that their friends and neighbors did not deserve to live on their street. Nevermind anything I ever learned from this...
Nevermind anything that I do or think or say or feel or am,
nevermind anything that makes me unique, anything that makes me human- this discussion reduces me to "not Lubavitch" and nothing more.
And once I have been reduced to "not Lubavitch," you want to make me the enemy. You want to turn me into a walking, talking assault on Yiddishkeit, Napolean storming Russia...
But I'm not your enemy. I'm your neighbor. And right now I am deeply, deeply hurt.
(1/23/2012 9:40:14 PM)
99
crown heights is blah
sooo happy i dont live in ch omg
goooooo calis!!!!
(1/23/2012 9:40:15 PM)
100
it is abundantly simple:
Whereas Williamsburg developers, management, and landowners develop and rent outside of the community as to maintain the standard of a Chasidishe Kehila, a number (not all) of ours do just the opposite. A) because they themselves are of the "cooler persuasion, and B) and this is important and cannot eb ignored: Lubavitchers and our own are very very difficult to deal with. the so called "yuppies" rent or lease legally and pay their brokers fee and rent ontime. they are clean and easy to deal with. when they are not the law is followed and takes care of it all.
However ours...nuff said

however still in williamsburg they are truly frum. here we are truly not
(1/23/2012 9:54:26 PM)
101
Dear neighbor from comment #98
First of all, please calm down. No one hates you. Really, no one hates you and you aren't anybody's enemy.

You say you are an educated and moral inclined person, yet you were so quick to make a demeaning generalization of the whole Crown Heights Jewish community based on a few comments.

I do not agree with what the op-ed has called for and I didn't like what some comments have written, but that's not the point.

The discussion here is about residents of the United States wanting a quality of life. For others, quality would a suburb of Boston. For us, that means living amongst frum Jews.

For years now, we have been paying top dollar to live here although the crime rate was constantly rising and although we feared to leave our homes after 8 PM. We chose to stay because this is what we want: To live together.

Now, after defending the neighborhood for a several decades and surviving perils such as the 91 riots, non Jewish Caucasians are moving in, causing a hike in rent and filling the homes that we are trying to live in. It took my son months to find an apartment for after his wedding.

Nobody hates you, the yuppies or the young professionals. Although we are still in exile and waiting for redemption, want we want for our families is to live peaceful. Drug deals or wild parties is not a peaceful life.

So some residents are letting out some steam on the web - courtesy of the anonymity option. We are far from being violent or bigoted. What are we going to do about this "problem"? most probably nothing. All we can do is complain (a known Jewish trait) and even that you want to take away from us?!
(1/23/2012 10:52:26 PM)
102
Florida Lawyer
As an attorney who defended one of the largest recent fair housing discriminarion cases in Miami for more than three years in federal court (the case was closed only last week) all I can say is: be very very very careful.

As for COLLive, please review the ninth circuit court of appeals decision in "roommates" that addresses possible violations of the FHA through Internet postings.

For those who would like to address this matter further, I'm sure you can find my contact info.

Mendy H
(1/23/2012 11:22:12 PM)
103
A Criwn Heights chabad girl
This op-Ed and most of the comments are disgusting!!! I am so embaressed as Lubavitcher that this was posted!!

This is shocking on so many levels. After all the hate and discrimanation that we Jews have faced throughout our history and in crown heights we now wanna label an entire group of people (who are only a group in that their skin color is white and they don't dress like us) and encourage not giving them equal opportunity to live where they want in the UNIUTED STATES OF AMERICA!!!!

This is such a chillul Hashem! This is the Internet. You don't think that maybe your nice new next door neighbour may find this article???

I mean come on people. Think (and feel) before you post such hatefully moronic trash.
(1/24/2012 1:52:33 AM)
104
Chaim
Class A stupidity. I like the new people moving into crown heights. If the area is booking more desirable it can only be of benefit to all of us.

I wanna wish a big Shalom Alaichem to anybody that comes in peace - be he a yid or a goy.
(1/24/2012 2:09:02 AM)
105
Troll zach nisht - #98
Everyone, 98 is a troll. Please note that the syntax of the post, several blatant misspellings, and the use of certain words are clear indications that the poster is from unzerer.

I am poster 91/92, so it is not as if I am writing this to argue against the content. I'm a Web pro and I have zero patience for trolling even when I do agree with some or all of the troll's message.

If your point is so weak that you need to troll to make it, either let someone else do the posting or rethink your position. Trolls don't roll in da' hood!
(1/24/2012 4:16:17 AM)
106
Hardly anyone is posting their name - mine is Michal
I don't live in Crown Heights, not a Lubavitcher, but it seems to me that your problems could be easily solved if you live and let live.

Teach your children according to the laws of the Torah, perhaps make aliyah and pray for the best.

Kicking people out of your neighborhood will hold your kids in line until they accidentally leave the neighborhood and their eyes will open up - as did Adam and Eve's.

It's better to simply educate your children in your way - there is no insurance policy for any chasidut or family.
(1/24/2012 4:59:43 AM)
107
So glad I don't live in Crown Heights
So this is the type of bigots and racists you have become.
(1/24/2012 7:43:16 AM)
108
To #8
Your headline speaks a lot about your golus reality - wake up! AMERICA is NO different!
(1/24/2012 11:07:21 AM)
109
To #101
Thank you so much for your well thought out comment. I really appreciate your having taken the time to write to me.
I by no means believe that every frum Crown Heights resident hates me, nor do I believe that every member of the community hates all non-religious and/or non-Jewish people. My words were " SO MANY neighbors," as in the so many people who used insulting language here or made assumptions about my behavior based on the actions of people I've never met. I live in the neighborhood. I interact with people. I understand as well as anyone that Lubavitchers are a beautifully diverse group of people. Even here, the comments represent a broad variety of viewpoints. But this doesn't fully erase the sting. It's disheartening to walk down the streets you've walked for years and wonder whether the person three feet ahead of you was the author of the "white trash" comment or wishes you weren't on the same sidewalk. I responded to this in a very human way, I told you how it FEELS- it hurts. But please, let me be clear, I agree with you 100% that the words of individual members of a community are no excuse for nurturing any form of bigotry.
There seem to be two primary fears that are voiced in the article and comments- 1. There is a shortage of housing for Lubavitch families in the neighborhood. For a number of reasons (the Rebbe, 770, the established community,) many Lubavitchers cannot just as easily live in another neighborhood, so it is vital that the community do all that it can to ensure its families have somewhere (nearby) to live. Anything that accelerates rising rents (gentrification) will make this problem much worse. 2. The new wave of "yuppie" neighbors pose a danger to the survival of the Lubavitch community because they introduce "a very different way of life." It is very easy for anyone to understand and empathize with the first issue. The second issue is trickier. Crown Heights as a whole is predominantly African American and West Indian. There are already a great number of bars and non kosher eateries within walking distance. There are ample opportunities to see people out and about in skimpy outfits. Is this easier to ignore when your neighbor is visibly "the other"? Are "yuppies" so cool that every Lubavitch kid can't help but want to be like them? (This seems to greatly underestimate the strength and beauty of Chabad. As other readers have pointed out, going on shluchis isn't a fast track off the derech- quite the opposite.) In rationalizing the second fear, the author uses examples of individual behavior to imply that a "group" of people who are tied together by demographics rather than a defined allegiance or shared system of beliefs are all up to no good. And this sort of thinking isn't fair to anyone.
As for complaining, oh my gosh, everyone loves to complain! The beauty of this forum is that it gives us all the opportunity to have a dialogue. Even if someone writes something that I personally find offensive (which occurs very rarely,) I am grateful to COL Live because it offers a space in which we can all contribute to the discussion. And it is through this discussion that we move forward.
(1/24/2012 12:02:40 PM)
110
#105 is a troll's TROLL
Go back to sleep #105 .

Hey #98 don't despair most of us have no problom with you at all. I won't even bother to elaborate but just assume most commentators here have nothing to do and feel like belching on the airwaves so this is their outlet.

They probably number fewer than you think.

If you really live in CH and you really know your neighbors then you know what I mean. You likely have none of these "problems" with any of your Chabad neighbors.

All are welcome here - this is chabad central after all!

OH, for those HAPPY they left CH - thanks , we need all the room we can get.

For those moving or thinking about it - great - perhaps we can get even more apartments opening up for our folks, families, newcomers or the new troupe!

Food for thought:
Running away is not dealing with your own issues. Learn more about that line of thought. You ain't gonna be happier elshwere.

M
(1/24/2012 12:58:56 PM)
111
To #105







I think we have different ideas about what constitutes a "troll." I thought that a troll uses the cover of online anonymity to post inflammatory, insulting, or otherwise divisive comments. You have labelled me a "troll" because you imagine that I am writing in character or from the perspective of someone who does not share my background. Like, say, a novelist...
In the meantime, your arguments for why I must be a Lubavitcher dredge up some nasty stereotypes, ie bad spelling. As we're on the same page about not dismissing people by putting them into boxes, let's recognize that this isn't fair. Plenty of Lubavitchers, male and female, have an excellent grasp of written English.
I can see two instances in which I referenced things that might be outside of the frame of knowledge that you expect from a secular person. First, "Ahavat Habriot" is a concept that is shared by a great number of religions. And the phrase is not unique to Chabad. But then I referenced the Alter Rebbe. And therein lies my biggest point- it is 100% possible to come from a secular background and know a thing or two about the history of Chabad. Because, believe it or not, it's interesting to people from all walks of life. When I moved to Crown Heights, part of my idea of being a good neighbor was to talk to people and to read and to learn, to take a genuine interest in the culture around me. I've tried very hard to cultivate an understanding that runs deeper than "what is Shabbos." So, perhaps for this reason, I was especially hurt to be lumped in with schoolyard sunbathing and senseless belligerence in a kosher restaurant.
I stand firmly behind my original objective in writing. Each and every Lubavitcher is a unique individual. Each and every non-Lubavitcher is a unique individual. And when we look beyond the surface and allow ourselves to see what makes each of us uniquely special, we can see so much that is truly beautiful. And when we can't, it hurts.
(1/24/2012 1:11:32 PM)
112
APH
I'm white AND Jewish and I live in Crown Heights, where my non-religious Jewish family has lived for 60 years. If you want to call me a yuppie because I have a good job, make a decent living and live in a nice apt., go right ahead.

It's called EQUALITY in this country--people live where they want to live and how they want to live and it is ILLEGAL to discriminate against non-Jews or anyone else for that matter. Don't forget--it is precisely YOUR BRAND of intolerance for other faiths, beliefs and values that causes people like Hitler to gain followers. Keep up your intolerance and it will come back to you. Learn to accept others and you just might be happier and healthier.
(1/24/2012 4:04:18 PM)
113
Discrimination is alive and well.
And lives in Crown Heights.

Think about making a better life for yourself and your family, not hiding in fear of the real world.
(1/24/2012 4:26:03 PM)
114
To #110
Thanks so much!!!!
And you're absolutely right- the many frum neighbors I do know personally are amazingly kind and wonderful people and I adore each and every one of them!
(1/24/2012 5:09:23 PM)
115
Reb Yid.
I believe that most of the Lubavitch community disagree strongly with the author.

Most of us live with the belief of live and let live.
(1/24/2012 10:34:47 PM)
116
to 111
Methinks the lady doth protest too much. You had someone help you write this time, but you can't fool me. It is not as if I don't agree with you, but trolling, which includes assuming a false identity to prove a point, is not acceptable.

It happens that I do agree with your fake persona and I am disgusted by this op-ed.
(1/25/2012 2:35:09 AM)
117
Debora Crown Heights
I live in Crown Heights, I am Jewish. And I am shocked and embarrassed at the comments here by fellow Jews. Did we learn nothing from the Holocaust? When I Agree 1005 writes, " We have to do whatever we can to try to keep our neighborhood as holy and as pure as possible!" Does this remind no one of anything? Pure? Like Aryans? Thsi is NYC. This is America. When did we decide to be as xenophobic and hateful as those who have discriminated against us for over a 1000 years? The neighborhood does not belong to anyone. It belongs to everyone and if you can accept that, you're in the wrong country and the wrong century.
(1/25/2012 1:08:19 PM)
118
American Citizen
This is disgusting bigotry --- you do not own your neighborhood. Religious bigotry is why we must demand that our government remain secular --- God forbid these religious radicals start passing laws that support this ignorance.
(1/25/2012 1:58:59 PM)
119
Non Jew Landlord
And if I tried to keep Jews out of my properties, you'd be screaming about the discrimination. What hypocrites you people are!
(1/25/2012 2:24:41 PM)
120
back when
I lived in Crown Heights back in the 50s 60s we all lived in peace - Satmar, Spinka, Bobover, Lubavitch, Misnagdim, Conservative Jews, Reform Jews, Irish, Italian, Afro-Americans. It was America after the War. Now you want to bring back the fears from the shtetl, Minsk, Lodz - get your heads out of the Ghetto - mashiach is not happy about this one - I know
(1/25/2012 2:42:05 PM)
121
I love Crown Heights
and I find this "article" racist and insulting. You should be very careful what you ask, writer: "Why are we bringing in more outsiders with open hands?" Tables turn very quickly. We are all exiles, and holy, in the sight of God.
(1/25/2012 2:52:55 PM)
122
Oh come on
Maybe you guys should start a pogrom. That'd solve all the outsiders coming in with their money and changing the socioeconomic culture.
(7/23/2012 3:43:07 PM)
123
B"H
25, 41, 80, 86, and the others talking about this being an opportunity from Hashem are the tzadikim here.
(1/13/2013 7:30:22 PM)
124
Love it
I love when minorities show they are just as racist as those they cry about.
(5/9/2013 9:19:27 PM)
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