Dec 28, 2011
I'm Finding My Own Shidduch
Shidduchim SOS: "I've lived in Crown Heights for seven years, and was set up once a year with another mismatched shidduch, by people who barely knew me."
By Tzippy N.
I've lived in Crown Heights for seven years, during which time I was set up with six different guys. None were potentially for me. The first had his life all mapped out and just needed a wife to complete his picture; a woman who knew both of us just vaguely suggested the shidduch.
The second had a vision of marriage that was completely opposite what I was looking for; he saw me frequent the shop where he works and his cousin who vaguely knew me pushed for the shidduch to happen.
I dated about one guy a year, since moving to Crown Heights, all suggested by well-intentioned people who barely knew me. The last straw was the sixth guy. A shidduch made between two women, the guy’s sister and a woman who knew me vaguely, and they knew each other only vaguely. Worst date ever. He didn't care about Yiddishkeit and he had a visible disability. Both were issues my mother had specifically asked his friends about, at my request. And both issues, we were told, were non-existent. I came home and burst into tears. The disability isn't what threw me. What threw me was that I'd been duped into going out with this guy. I felt tricked. As far as I was concerned, from that moment forward I was only doing phone-call first-dates or non-committal-coffee first-dates. I was fed up with being set up by people who hardly knew me.
Boruch Hashem, I have some very special, good friends. But even my close friends and friendlies haven’t had much luck at setting me up. Over the years, they dabbled in the matchmaking, but the guys were all busy at the time or their families said "no thanks" and that was it. Few suggestions were brought forward. Shadchanim almost never called me back. And my mother wasn’t having any success either.
It was time for me to take things into my own hands. I started attending events and Shabbatons for 25+ aged singles. The events were fun for the most part, but it was also disappointing to be in that category. I had tons of friends, but in this department I felt like I was going it alone.
I started keeping an eye out for good guys and then looking into them on my own. It never got very far. Two friends each suggested someone, but it didn’t go anywhere. When I would shyly ask if they had any ideas, people would tell me, "You're always on my mind, I just don't know anyone for you." I didn’t expect my friends to spend time helping me find a shidduch; understandably, they have very busy lives.
So one day I took matters into my hands even further. I met Daniel*, a divorced, frum 30-year-old Lubavitcher, at a work thing and we started chatting. Thinking that perhaps he had enjoyed our conversation as much as I had, I gave my number to a mutual acquaintance and asked him to pass it along so that Daniel could call me if he wanted to.
And he did. He called, and we talked and talked and talked...for hours, until we couldn't keep our eyes open any longer. The following day we went for coffee and then rode the elevator to our respective offices together. We took the train home together after work that day.
The next day, Daniel called and officially asked me out. I have to tell you that when I decided to give him my number, I didn't know any of the things typically listed on our "shidduch profiles." I knew that our personalities jived and that we enjoyed each other's company. I didn't have high expectations; I just didn't want the usual run-around that I was used to by using the conventional, frum methods.
I had a lot of thinking to do. After panicking and thinking everything through bit by bit for many hours, I made my decision. Daniel isn't exactly the type of "shidduch profile" anyone would have set me up with—friend, friendly, or vague acquaintance. He is divorced and barely made it through school. He smokes. On paper, our criteria don't match. And frankly, if we eventually decide to tie the knot and people hear about the engagement, there will be shock and disbelief. But that doesn't matter to me. What matters to me is that Hashem has been orchestrating my entire life all this time. None of the previous guys I dated were right for me because, perhaps, Daniel is right for me. My parents won't be thrilled at first, but when they meet him they will see what I see in him—a genuine person who is so close to the Aibishter, who cares deeply for the people in his life, and is an honest and confident man.
I am making a resolution right now. My resolution is that I will not let a single week go by without spending at least 20 minutes trying to find matches for my friends and the people I know. As wrapped up in my life as I may become, I will not forget what it's like to fend for myself. I will always keep my friends in mind and go out of my way to help them.
I've thought about the things that don't match up so perfectly on paper about Daniel and me. And I've decided that hashgacha pratis brought us to where we are right now. Hashem is leading the way, so there is nothing for me to be afraid of. Instead, I am committing to giving my all to our first date and every date afterward, if G-d chooses it to be so.
Here's to wishing and blessing every married Jew with shalom bayis and everything necessary to be happy and healthy in this world. And here's to wishing and blessing every single Jew with the confidence, clarity, and emunas Hashem to navigate the uncertain and emotionally tolling dating process.
Hatzlacha rabba.
*Names have been changed to protect identities
let's hear it everyone.........nobody is off limits when it comes to shidduchim...
I have been living in Crown Heights for 5 years and not been set up EVEN ONCE!
I wish I had a way to meet guys on my own like you did.
While the current system no longer works at all, there is no realistic alternative. You met Daniel through a random work event, but the rest of us have no tznius way to meet girls/boys ourselves.
There are singles events, but we all know that unfortunately they have a certain "nebach" stigma attached to them.
It's all very sad. May all singles find their basherts soon!
Also, the one advantage that you loose by meeting someone the natural way is that it's really hard to get to know the real person since everyone is on their best behavior during dating. The non-frum/Jewish world deals with this issue by dating for a long time so that by then they hope they've gotten the real picture. If that is not doable or practical I would recommend doing some basic background check. As much as you want to trust yourself and your new found best friend, in the words of the great Ronald Ragen "trust but verify".
It used to be that everyone knew everyone. It's no longer the case. I would argue that you may even be safer WITHOUT a shandchan. With a shadchan you expect that they find out these things for you and you trust them. Little do you know that they don't do any of that work for you. When you make you're own shiduch you know what you don't know and, so long as you're responsible, you can go ahead and do the research that you need to do.
thanks for writing this article
I know this was not the point of the article, but i cant help but mention that you kinda contradicted yourself. The first you wrote, you said that people who barely knew you set you up with such out of the box matches. The second part, where you met Daniel, you say that on paper you guys are not compatible...so whats the difference?
I think its a matter of clicking, whether you met thru a mutual person or on your own. Hatzlacha! I also love the fact that you are actively trying to help your friends. I'm a single girl in my late twenties and know exactly what you are talking about. I myself have made 2 shidduchim, if we don't help ourselves, who will??
to #11, I hate to be the one to break it to you, but even when you do all the research in the world, some "skeletons" will never be found till the couple is married.
My father is a Russian refuge who spent his childhood on the run from Nazis and communists, My mother is American, college educated,(Maxwell house hagada etc) with no shaychus to Lubavitch.
The only thing that they had in common was that they were committed to living a frum life. My father would go off to 770 and my mother would go out with her friends. with time they created a home with the tzar gidul bonim etc that bound them together.
Please... remember a beard can always grow longer, and clothing can be changed...
The only question you need to answer is. Is the Boy/Girl shiduch a mentch.
If you can find a mentch.. then the mentch will let you do what is important to you. if the mentch lets you live your level of frumkayt, and you truly love it... they will follow your lead.
Trust me ... look at the half breed geze familys like mine.
With age all people grow beards and grow up
- fellow single girl
My parents wanted me to move here for the "networking" and so that I would be "seen" by the right people...so far not much has happened, but I'm still hopeful.
I'm not about to try and meet anyone on my own though... At least not yet.
It's happened so many times that people say no to a shidduch and a year or two later the name comes up again and they get married. Why not give every shidduch a chance.
Once again, I am so proud that you took charge of the situation and made sure that u don't end up in the "single Pile" of girls that just sit around waiting for one day when the phone will ring.....
I read the comments, and I am saddened.
For years I have devoted very serious time to helping young people (usually it's the woman) and aching to solve the shidduch situation.
To read a girl's comment here, that she has been in the neighborhood for 5 years and has not been introduced to even one prospect, is to read the story as it is. It is not the fault of 'the system'. There never was a system. It was customary for some to make money as shadchanim, but they were always 'fringe' types who knew little about people bichlal, let alone the individuals they suggest. (Just listen to the words of the 'Matchmaker' song in the Fiddler.) It is immature to blame this on a system, and is seriously counterproductive for any community to eat away at its own self esteem.
So who's fault is it? The demographers. They placed a larger number of females into the mix than males. But, of course they are only counting the numbers which are there. Every girl (and parents) should face the fact (and, in the 'lingo' - get real.)
There is always someone left standing, when the music stops. Don't wait for the music to stop. Start young (18-19 for girls) and take care of yourselves and your daughters. Those girls seeking a career, or a few years 'to myself', they will be the ones who need to worry about the music - later - to much later. (My opinion is, that 2 years in seminary is a financial and social boondoggle. Even one year should become optional. Spend the money on shidduch hunting.)
In my family tree, I had 4 greatgrandfathers who married a second time (to single girls) after a post-natal death. It was a fact of life. Check your own tree - you may be surprised. That doesn't happen anymore B"H B"H. However, our lives are affected by the numneric results. [There is one choshuveh Rov who points out, that Rabenu Gershom's cherem also plays a role. In fact there were Sephardi poskim who lambasted the monogomy concept, calling it 'chukas hagoyim' which is assur.] It is not important how the numbers became what they are. It is important to know what they are, and to act in self interest, and in the interest of friends and family. (And be aware, that meeting 'a guy' in the elvator is not something new. Well elevators are. Minhag hagoyim has been like that for ages. And we know what their divorce rate was.)
In a perfect world, every girl would have a mashpiya (one who excels in ubderstanding human behavior etc, NOT someone who is well versed in dogma, and has a pat solution/answer for any and every thing.) And every meeting with a bochur should be discussed seriously. Even if you feel it's not for you, nevertheless take it seriously. Because of who sent this prospect. Not a shadchan, not a friend, but the Ribbono Shel Olam himself. Imagine that you are telling HIM why this is not for you. Do it with a mashpiya. Get your goals in life straight (and please don't giive me the glamour of 'shlichus'. If you do it for glamour it ... well...)
A story originally heard about the Chafetz Chayim (although it soes not fit his nature): He was passing the marketplace and a widow called hijm over distraught and yelling that some hooligans had tipped over her fruit and vegetable sales-cart. People were snatching up the goods and walkingt away. She was begging him to help her. His advice was" Az aleh chappen, chap du oych. If everyone is grabbing produce, you grab as much as you can. The facts are on the ground ('lol').
Don't waste time talking bout it, thinking about it. Become 'pro-active'. Doy ou have a list of bochurim? Do you have a cousin, nephew uncle, brothr's friend, or what, and keep pumping. Aske about this name on the list (make your own if you need to) or that name.
May Hashem bless you all with a partner in building a kosher family and life. Besuros tovos.
I know some older singles who had run through 'all' the available singles, who were 'on the shelf' - both boys and girls - and yet married wonderful spouses at the ripe age of 28. Through the shiddach system.
I think that just meeting someone randomly, finding them attractive or compatible and choosing them for a life partner can be a dangerous step. As someone commented above, all the secular world dates that way, and it doesn't turn out too well!
At least give the name to your parents/mashpia to check out.
no one is gonna do it for you, drive the shadchanim crazy
lots of shiduchim happened there!!!
How you want to raise children.
Is going to a shiur daily important to you.
...
It is funny that in the begining of the article she was complaining about the matches not fitting the profile and at the end that is exactly what she needed.
I am happy that this turned out well. Bitachon and open mindedness could really help the shidduch "scene" dramatically.
Very poor recipe for marriage.
You have no clue what you want in life. Maybe a wife? Or a ring or band, on your hand, from a husband?
Very poor recipe for marriage.
A partner (co-director) in some shlichus in Yehupitz? Positive, yes. Common sense? No. If you are suitable for shlichus (rapidly becoming a field that can only support mushrooms - a fungus) then your spouse will fit in. Even if only to be a dugma chaya on a functional Jewish family. (It is amazing how many baalei teshuvah were attracted, even consciously, by that. Sheds light on why they have a tendency to sit for hours at the Shabbos table. Their 1st experience of a one hour meal as a family was soooo long, that they now tend to sit for as much as 3 or even 4 hours. Consider the effect on the kids.)
There is a purpose in life. For husband and wife. Fulfilling Ratzon HaBoreh Olam. Period. The first mitzva is still the first mitzva. And a mivtza does not replace a mitzva. The Rebbe always assumed "common sense" first. Perhaps he was dan lekaf zechus on chassidim a tad too kindly.
I didn't say it doesn't turn out well I think it does for many people. it's just not always practical in the frum world.
dont know who u are but take it from a guy a who got married eons ago (staright up shidduch, first girl yada yada): ur a grown woman now and hes a grown man with some real life experience under his belt (unfortunately)...
by the time ur married married for as long as ive been (going on a decade), it will make no difference as to how u met or if u were set up or bumped into each other at work etc
bottom line is if you like each other and respect each other enough then: GET MARRIED
much success
Its doesn't turn out too well because they dont have HASHEM as a PARTNER.
To summarize your issue with the typical ‘shadchan’ method, you state two problem: (1) they vaguely knew you (or both of you), (2) they lied to you.
However, with your method, those problems still exists. You go to a single event, or bump into some one ‘where ever’, you still vaguely know the person at first, and you don’t know what they are lying about, etc. it all takes time to find out. So… what did you do? You went to find out… by talking to him… dating, etc… and saw if you are compatible or not. This is exactly what your third parties tried to do as well. They said, who cares how good we know the two of you, you both will go out, and find out for yourself. (as for the ‘lying’ part of shadchonim, that’s a problem. But again, when you do it on your own, the ‘guy’ could also be lying. You do research it, talk to him, and figure it out).
So you’re method doesn’t resolve the problem. You are only saying, you would rather find out for yourself if you should date, rather being advised. But in reality, there is no difference. Just a matter of ego, you get offended and blame the shadchan, when in reality you are doing the same things.. .you are tying things out to see if your are compatible (and you both ignore the profiles… which is exactly what your third part has been doing too).
So bottom line – this way isn’t necessarily ‘better’. Either way can work.
I’m not here to say what is the ‘correct’ way, I’m only saying practically they both equally work.
(I further feel you’re making a big issue of a ‘date’. As you write, you decided to first go out for coffee and then date. Well, the coffee is also a date. You’re playing with words. I think you should stop making a big fuss and issue of a ‘non-committal-coffee first-dates”. What’s a difference what you call it? I’m clueless what this means. It’s a ‘date’ bottom line.. Go… find out… doesn’t work out… next! The 3rd party tried what you want to try on your own… next!)
BROCHA AND HATZLACHA WITH HOPES THAT YOU WILL BE ABLE TO A GOOD SHLIACH FOR OTHERS!
the reason we do research ahead of time is to make sure your heart isnt broken after. if you follow your feelings and then find out something very hurtful- you will be broken and very hard to heal, and hopefully not already too late.
it is best to have the patience, look into him a bit on your own, ask him for refrences.. i dont suggest you get into a situation that will hurt you at this point in your life;
But it is true that many relationships that begin based on a casual personal encounter and an 'attraction' are statistically not as sound as the overwhelming majority of relationships in the frum world (arranged by shaddchanim, friends, neighbours etc. not necessarily a traditional shaddchan). I think the attraction of a casual meeting can sometimes blur one's clear vision, and cause you to overlook serious flaws or character issues because you have begun to develop feelings that are based on an initial, somewhat superficial, attraction.
Eventually she decided to date someone that was barely frum for two years because she felt deparate. She was afraid to say "no - I dont feel it is the right match for me". She was being fed (by herself and others) that she's getting older and if she doesn't "compromise" she may never get married...
I gave her a lot of chizuk that she needs to have emuna and she'll find someone right for her. Start being open minded about the right things, maybe give up a little on looks, maybe a little on the fact that he's not the most outgoing chevraman etc. Look at neshamos - beautiful people within and without tha may be a bit shy, maybe they weren't the big mivtzoim guys in yeshiva or the Head Counselors in camp, etc.
Eventually, she started looking "not about what people will say when they heard who she got engaged to" but what her life is going to look like in ten years sitting around shabbos afternoon, with her husband spending time with the kids, learning chumash rashi, reviewing the gemara with them, telling chassidishe stories to the kids as they go to bed......
She is happily married to a wonderful person who is a bit younger than her, and is not featured often or at all on COL, but she is happy and her children are growing up in a household that she envisioned.
That's what counts.
Take out your list of "what you are looking for" and cross out 5 things. Then restart, things will change for the better.
Then I moved out of town. In that year I got more shidduchim than the 6 yrs in NY combined!
And when the right one came up, it was discovered that the friend who played shadchan knew both of us from the same exact time - 5 years earlier!
It's all in Hashem's master plan. We were not meant to meet earlier, and although it's good to be in NY a bit so ppl can get to know you, there is no reason to just hang out there forever.
good luck to you
A story originally heard about the Chafetz Chayim (although it soes not fit his nature): He was passing the marketplace and a widow called hijm over distraught and yelling that some hooligans had tipped over her fruit and vegetable sales-cart. People were snatching up the goods and walkingt away. She was begging him to help her. His advice was" Az aleh chappen, chap du oych. If everyone is grabbing produce, you grab as much as you can. The facts are on the ground ('lol').
i wish all those people well ive only been on 3 dates. and its quite random
Follow the money.
-this may be the way for you but it is not the best way generally
-I don't think this is what the Rebbe would generally approve of, and taking into account divorce rates you need all the brachos you can get
-before marriage when meeting a guy feelings go before of intellect, you may be very attracted to him (fall in love) but may find that when your past the "honey moon" stage you can't stand him
- a shadchan is supposed to find out the personality of the person before you go out, so that once you "fall in love" later you'll be able to live with the guy
- I suggest trusting in Hashem for finding a good shadchan or do the online profile thing
- all in all were talking about Hashgacha Pratis, so do your best and Trust in Hashem!!
in modern Belorussian(that all chabad from) law it strong requirements to be matchmaker. you need appropriate high degree education and have LICENSE . i think it time to rabbinical court in CH to study from goim
to #54 Halojmes! you simple greedy! that's all. first- some shadhaniot get you sign agreement, that first years you paid maaser to them in addition to dmey shiduh. 4 y.a. i see it/! dos it help.? no. and plz be honestly. it can help we are in CH people that pray shaharit after 4p.m daily can be responsible. it simple $10-15- 20k not help $100k
irresponsibility ,for my sorrow it main feature of chabad ffb, it noting to do. it genetics all world chabad and bt it only to feed CH FFB. at least last 17 years. SO STOP SPEAK ABOUT PROFIT. IT NOT SUCH MONEY THAT you #54 become a mentch! you only want money
p.s it not about money
I go on COLive a few times a week and I’m always met with the same article heading: Shidduch SOS. Everyone has opinions and ideas, but when they present them they are bombarded with criticism and rebuttals. And that’s all people are doing. Instead of actually trying to change themselves and the system, they are pointing out the flaws of the system (although I do realize I’m contradicting myself by complaining about the complainers ). Some say they found their shidduch by going through the “system”, while others found their bashert through their own actions and by taking control. The point is, different approaches work for different people and arguing about it will not change a single thing. The articles are written by well meaning people who hope to provide inspiration and answers to others. The problem is that it may be the wrong answers for some people. The comments, however, are direct flames towards the person because everyone has a different idea of what will work. But, one person’s opinion does not negate the others. Afterwards, some other well meaning person will write their own view of the shidduch scene. And so, the cycle continues. But at the end of the day, what was really accomplished? People destroying each other with their comments? People taking advice that was not geared towards them and, as a result, mess up their own lives? What works for one person may not be the right approach for another. And yet, they take the answer and try to finagle it to fit their own problem, twisting it into something so completely different. The solution is that there is no solution. Every person had to speak to their mashpia, to look inside themselves, and to see what will work. And instead of writing about it, go out and do something! Masseh hu ha’ikar!
- it takes 2
I find #23 etc. rather amusing. My parents met in college, dated, married, have been married over 40 years ka"h and guess what they have a strong, solid marriage. And ironicaly both my parents' siblings are frum shomer shabbos and both ended up divorced. At any rate you can't say it doesn't work. It is not true to say everyone in the secular world only dates because of attraction etc. Very often people know each other and like the personality before dating.
NOW HERE IS THE IRONY.
In the secular world looks, weight etc. don't have to count because you meet the person and get to know their personality and midos possibly even before going out.
IN OUR CHASSIDISHE world where the shidduch system is SUPPOSED to work differently, mothers of boys are constantly asking about a girl's looks, dress size, weight etc. BEFORE they meet. Why? Because they ersht meet having done all the research and it's about whether they are attracted to each other. Isn't it so ironic that a system which is supposed to bring out the penimiyus has ended up accentuating the chitzoniyus and all the problems that go with that e.g. eating disorders weight concerns etc. Something is wrong when this is the case. People asking for photos before dating etc. etc.
Something needs to change so that the shidduch system puts less emphasis on looks and appearance. Maybe takke a few phone dates is a great idea so you feel you know the person before meeting.
#59 I assume you were being humorous otherwise your English is only marginally better than #58.
Let's go eliminate the world.
"the system" that is design to focus on personality over looks etc. does PRECISELY the opposite.
The answer is to let people just meet and modest mixed venues.
However, you seem to be putting down the people who had tried to set you up saying that they weren't men for you-- but you say that on paper "Daniel" may not be for you either. Also, you seem to be unappreciative of your friends: remember, if they truly are your friends, they have your best interest at heart, and maybe a guy with Daniel's "resume" isn't the guy for you-- but it works. Maybe they are thinking, "well he smokes and he is divorced..."
Please, you see how everything is hashgacha pratis and everyone will imy"h find his or her person when Hashem's plan wills it-- in the mean time-- try not to be so negative toward the people who do try.
"KOL HAKAVOD!!!!
I fully understand where she's coming from, I've been there myself and yes I will prob end up 'finding my own' ITS ABOUT TIME THESE SO-CALLED SHADCHANIM GO AND GET A PROPER JOB THEN MAYBE THE DIVORSE RATE WITHIN COMMUNITIES WILL BE SLASHED MY 50%"
My reply is:
1. These people you say to "get real jobs" usually have jobs and this is their side job usually Shadchanim are Rabbonim in Yeshivos and Seminaries
2. Than inappropriate contact in the community will be up 500%,
I am not from C.H. and live near communities which I will not mention due to Lashon Harah that don't use the Shidduch system and many people don't get married because to them now every night you can be with a different girl, of course that's not everyone, and I understand that there are problems in the system many of them including lack of education to people dating and whatever else. I personally am confused and overwhelmed by all of these problems it's crazy Hashem should help us and everyone who needs a Shiduch.
but maybe she doesn't get called back by Shadchanim because she had/has a bad reputation or didn't go to seminary or something I really don't know, I'm not trying to judge negatively I'm just a very analytic person, it's just she's leaving out many details in this article and it's a bit strange, and the way she makes it sound a Bein Torah doesn't seem to be her first choice she doesn't mention what she's looking for (technically she could be looking for a guy that's nice goes to Shul and doesn't go out of his way)
I'm just saying we can start making inferences/ Diyukim from this article it lacks crucial information