Letter Cautions Hasty Judgment
In light of the positive development to root out predators in frum communities, the Crown Heights Vaad Hakohol cautioned to presume innocence until proven guilty and respect families of suspects. Full Story
In light of the positive development to root out predators in frum communities, the Crown Heights Vaad Hakohol cautioned to presume innocence until proven guilty and respect families of suspects. Full Story
63
i wasnt talking abt that story i was just giving an example
A Jewish man, totally innocent, accused of molesting his autistic daughter, spent 80 days in jail without bond, his life in ruins. Finally the case was dropped for lack of evidence but this family endured a nightmare because of a “witch hunt” mentality in going after molesters. For some reason this case was not mentioned in any of the Jewish media.
OK, we get it. No judge a person before you know the facts. Reasonable request from responsible community leaders.
One question remains: When a predator is convicted and proof without a reasonable doubt is presented, will they show the same compassion towards the victims too?
“a bissel seichel“
I agree with 62 / 64. I am currently aware of a case in a frum Lubav community where a teenager has molested a young child. Due to advice from community leaders and frum psychologist (!), the family is not going to police as originally planned. The father of the teenager threatened to do something very severe if it was reported, thus the decision to keep quiet. Supposedly in a few months the teen will leave town to get treatment. (They didn’t want to disrupt his year!) I don’t know how these ppl. can go to sleep at night, knowing… Read more »
I also wonder how many other predators are being enabled because they may have a more prominent name or standing in this community, and in communities worldwide? We know it happens in the Catholic church, but us Jews – I thought we were meant to be a light unto the nations? The only chillul hashem is when it comes out how institutions or individuals failed to protect innocent children, as can be seen from the recent episodes in the Chabad community in Melbourne, Australia, of which I am a member. How do those people sleep at night? Although abuse is… Read more »
hes not a monster? whaaaat???!!! he used his deceased sons name as a means to further his disgusting behaviors, are you crazy?
Why weren’t the victims and the victims families mentioned in this letter – why are THEY presumed guilty until proven innocent? This letter bespeaks the exact problem, that we thought was hopefully changing. Leaders protecting the predators, not the victims. His family may also be victims, figuratively and literally – we need to offer them support and sensitivity as well. But why not a letter coming out to support victims? Maybe no one wants to face the truth because it’s so painful. We don’t need to persecute the alleged predators family – the don’t deserve to be ostracized – but… Read more »
hmmmmm do YOU have something to hide? you seem overly frightened about the so-called witch hunt. People who have nothing to hide do not worry about a “hunt”. You dont like to air dirty laundry? why? you like it hushed up? quiet-so no one will know???wow -YOU have a lot in common with the perp!!!!!
if the wife and children did not know anything (which I do not for one minute believe) then he really is a pro and was able to cover himself very well (by scaring the kids?
Without a shred of evidence?! For the record, one of my close relatives is one of the victims. Knowing him and being close to the family of the accused, I can assure you that he has no personal vendetta against them. His only goal (as is the goal of most of us) is to ensure that molesters are safely locked up so there be no more victims. Of course I would love for the accusations to be false (I feel terrible for the pain his family is now going through) but my Dan Lekaf Zechus is not that he didn’t… Read more »
To number 34,I agree with you.What about mental abuse?serious .
YOU ARE 100 % Right Thats what is happening a witch hunt!!!
Why would he turn himself in fool??????Hes out on bail. you think all this is some wild person’s imagination? There is something seriously wrong with people who do not want to face any truth about their own even if it means a child is murdered and hacked.WHAT WILL IT TAKE FOR YOU TO GET A GRIP AND FACE THE MUSIC???Do you care one iota for anyone’s child other thanYOURS????????????????
Parents: BE AWARE if your child is spending a lot of time with a bochur or man out of your house. Could be learning in 770, going on mivtzoim, farbrengens, all with the same bochur or man. Why is that bochur spending so much time with a child? An older teen or man should not spend too much time with a child, or with children. That is a signal for a parent to suspect too much emotional closeness than is appropriate and grooming going on. In addition, parents should always take what their children say about if someone touched them… Read more »
You dont get it.. people down talk!! I know someone in the know, that knows people that can put these guys away for life if they testify.
People are bought off, intimidated etc.. I know people abused by the alleged abusers on CHW..
When CHW started I was very happy that someone is doing something to stop (or at least curb) this horrible abuse, but I’m perplexed as to why one of the ACCUSED is still only ACCUSED after 7 WEEKS of asking someone or anyone to come forward to attest to the accusation; and still waiting for any proof (not a clownish u-tube song session) . an honest person would think that maybe There’s no truth to the accusations and remove the posting but I guess we are not dealing with honest people: having said this They took a very important cause… Read more »
to number 45
u dont send your son to someone you dont know or never met in times like 2day and no u dont go and tell abt it till u know for a fact cause this is the terrible game of broken telephone starts
the family is innocent??? how can they say that?? just shows their continued ignorance!!! did you ever here of enabling??? as someone who is close to the family, its quite clear they did, whether is was from fear and the manipulations of this sick man, no one is innocent when you stand by after the man of the house abuses is own child, flees Israel, and it all good!!!
PULLLLEEEASE
dont mean to be chutzpedik when i say this but let me give you a example you hear that your sons counsler may have done somethings in the past that sound a little fishy as a parent u thunk about your childs safety and want to stop any chance of anything happening read this letter dont be ruthless!!!!!!! dont imagine the worst thing and then say thats what really happened you have no idea how much is at stake here fine your sons safety is important but what if your wrong? and this was just a game of broken telephone… Read more »
WHILE I KNOW NOTHING OF THE FAMILY DYNAMICS OR FAMILY HISTORY INVOLVED IN THIS HORRIFIC ACCUSATION, I ALWAYS AM AMAZED WHEN COMMENTATORS ARE SO SURE THAT IT IS “IMPOSSIBLE THAT A MAN’S WIFE & FAMILY WERE NOT AWARE OF HIS ILLEGAL OR IMMORAL ACTIVITIES.” A MAN CAN MOST CERTAINLY HAVE AN ENTIRE PRIVATE EXISTENCE THAT HIS WIFE & CHILDREN KNOW ABSOLUTELY NOTHING ABOUT !!!!
Where are the facts that he fled Israel because he did disgusting acts…?
Where is it documented I would like to see it for myself.
BH an authorative and sensitive voice in the midst of the loshen hora and emotional chaos! It is at times like this when we are each tested to be our most sensitive and appropriate selves, and when our own neshamahs are tested to see who WE really are. May we all pass this test with the dignity and ahavas yisroel that we expect from others.
A reason to act immediately in an accepted (by relevant PROFESSIONALS) manner is evidenced by the very comments on this site! With no prescribed process based on a comprehensive understanding of this crucial topic, any number or misplaced, misguided, misinformed actions might occur. And this is precisely the reason that PROFESSIONALS IN THE FIELD OF ABUSE PSYCHOLOGY need to be a mandatory piece of this! I think people are quite remiss to not understand that this is a SPECIFIC part of behavior, and therefore requires a SPECIFICALLY trained professional as part of the team! Which would you choose if someone… Read more »
I’m a mother of young children. I want to know the dangers. It’s true that the presumption of innocence has to be in a court of law, but all you parents out there…do you want to know who is a danger to your children?? What if your son came home to say that this great friendly rabbi offered to teach him bar mtizvah lessons for free…and because you don’t know the rabbi…youjust know he’s a rabbi…you send your son along to his house.?? And then you fidn out what this rabbi did to your son? And then you find out… Read more »
I AGREE THAT THAT PEOPLE NEED TO BE AWARE OF PEOPLE WHO ARE ABUSING OTHER. BUT WHAT ABOUT EVERYTHING ELSE? THERE ARE PEOPLE IN THIS COMMUNITY WHO BEAT THEIR WIVES! WHO BEAT THEIR TEACHERS! WHO BEAT THEIR KIDS! WHO BEAT THEIR FRIENDS! THERE ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE STEALING MONEY FROM PEOPLE ALL THE TIME. THERE ARE PLENTY OF PEOPLE WHO BORROW THOUSANDS OF DOLLARS AND NEVER PAY BACK! AND WE ARE TOLD WE ARE NOT ALLOWED TO GO TO COURT. AND ITS LOSHON HARA TO TALK ABOUT THEM AND POST THEM ALL OVER THE INTERNET! WHY THE DOUBLE STANDARD? DON’T… Read more »
Yes, when a web site accuses an innocent man and slanders him in the worst way possible, WITHOUT A SHRED OF PROOF OR EVIDENCE no matter how they tried to unearth something, it can only be called a witch hunt.
Kol Hakovod to the vaad Hakohol for standing up for what’s right! We must be ever so careful not to incriminate anyone before we have absolute proof. When a web site libels an innocent person for personal gratification and nothing more, it should be forbidden to be on the web.
You have a point that the Rabbonims signature would add to the letter, but this is a site that is using the name crown heights so that one can assume the crown heights council is involved, therefore it is really a matter for them. Hence the vaad Hakohol’s letter.
if you suspected a gas leak in the house would you not yell for everyone to leave and then have it investigated? Don’t take chances with our kid’s lives. This is real. Tell your kids about the suspects and to keep away from them. Can’t believe that the wife and children did not suspect anything.
the man of the house reportedly did terrible things in Israel then fled israel (documented fact) and came here to continue his disgusting acts….his family enabled, not saying intentionally, but the wife for example you never know…
I think that you should investigate yourself before you tell the Rabbonim what to do or even more so, saying that we should investigate the Rabbonim, it is just another sign of IKVISAI MOSHIACH
Why didnt they actually SIGN the letter?
a witch hunt????are u totally insane?you think people go out just looking for someone to hunt down and brand? People are exposed after someone has already been victimized and guess what-those families are lifelong victims!So get a grip. Like the society we live in, it is the poor perp whose rights we have to worry about.Everyone is so worried about gossip and guess what- by NOT speaking up, many other people become innocent victims.Bec the real mentality is this-as long as i know who it is and MY fam is ok, who gives a hoot about someone else…!!!!!Thats how it… Read more »
Thank you Vaad for coming out and writing a very important and sensible letter.
If this is the reason why Rabbi osdoba refused o sign, so he is wrong as we all know that contacting the Rabbonim first will lead to nothing as, unfortunately, many Rabbonim are known to cover up the matter. Moreover, what if the abuser is an important member of the community? The Rabbonim will be reluctant to act. So, if Rabbi Osdoba didn’t sign because of the reason you gave, he is wrong. Such position of speaking to the Rabbonim first has been proven to be catastrophic and a complete failure. There is no other choice to contact the Police… Read more »
while i agree that the family are indeed victims themselves in such a situation, the investigation should be broadened to include the family. did the family actively hide the actions and in doing so help facilitate more innocent children being harmed?! Also, the investigation should include be expanded to include the beis din: while its good that they came out with a psak that helps protect our children and our community from harm, how long have they know about these allegations and not only were silent while others were victimized but allowed for opening of Gesher BenTzion, basically condoning and… Read more »
best written post by far. well thought out and clear and to the point. also, you happen to be 100% right. where there is smoke there is fire.
This letter is fair and balanced.
While it supports the prosecution of offenders, it reminds us to behave like mentchen.
We cannot have a lynch mob mentality – justice is setting up systems to deal with violators, not allowing every Joe to take the law into their own hands.
This is leadership.
Anyone who criticizes this very balanced approach is themselves off-balance.
Does anyone know why the family of the man who was arrested fled Israel to Settle in the USA?
I agree with #24. The Rabbonim should give a letter ot support which will give it a 100% approvel.
To all those asking why Rabbi Osdaba did not sign the p[previous letter, it appears that he didn’t sign it because he didn’t agree with it. Rabbi Osdaba’s opinion is in line with most frum Rabbonim around the world that the first step in dealing with these sorts of allegations is to first take them to a competent Rov and community professional, they will verify the veracity of the claims and if need be call in the Police and counseling services. There have already been 2 false claims of molestation that I know of in CH within the past year… Read more »
You must be the same commenter. You might even be the accuser, I have a feeling…..
IF LEIBY KLETZKY MURDER LO OLAINU RACHMONAH LITZLON ACHIEVED ANYTHING POSITIVE IT IS THE WAKE UP CALL TO COMMUNITIES WORLD WIDE THAT ABUSE EXISTS AND MUST BE CONFRONTED BY RABBONIM AND ASKONIM……………………………………….IT COULD BE ANYONE.
INTERESTING THAT NONE OF THE RABBONIM ARE WILLING TO PUT THEIR NAME TO THIS LETTER……..SHOULDN’T THIS MATTER BE IN THE DOMAIN OF RABBONIM TO GIVE IT SOME RESPECTABILITY!!!!!
NO SMOKE WITHOUT FIRE. A MESSAGE HAS TO GO OUT TO ASLL CHILD ABUSERS PAST PRESENT AND FUTURE AND THAT MESSAGE SHOULD BE………YOUR DAYS ARE NUMBERED, YOUR ACTIONS WILL CATCH UP WITH YOU, AND YOU WILL BE CAUGHT AND PROSECUTED!!
ONE MORE WORD…….ABUSERS, DONT THINK FOR A MINUTE THAT A CHILD WILL NOT REMEMBER WHAT YOU DID TO HIM OR HER.
Whay aren’t the beis din writing such letters. where is the leadership????
How could Rabbis Braun & Schweii not have written this type of letter?
tasteful and on the mark!!!
where is the vaad’s letter of apology to the victims??? for once again not protecting them and giving any sympathy???? y r we always sooo worried about the predator??? focus on the real victims!!
the letter addressed many very important points. PPl’s gossiping will not help the situation! It is a horrible middah!
It is easy to go to an extreme in everything. Finding guilt now becomes a mivtza that young and old carry out this witch hunt with religious fervor with absolute disregard to the subtleties of Nuance and common sense.
Thank you for this wonderfully timed reminder.
They’re right in this. We should hold our fire until AFTER a conviction and then once convicted, his family will need lots of kiruvim to recover a scintilla of dignity. It’s only the offender’s fault. Not their families.
Rabbis Schwei and Braun Shlita made their opinion very clear on the matter by signing a Psak. Kol HaKavod to them, because it changed a lot of things and now, people are less afraid to speak out and denounce thpse ugly predators because they now know that the Rabbis won’t cover up the matter anymore nor throw it under the carpet. Now, the Vaad, with this letter, makes their opinion very clear, and I agree with each and every line of that letter. But the silence of Rabbi Osdoba and his refusal to sign the Beis Din’s Psak, eventhough I… Read more »
This letter only demonstrates further the accusation which has been leveled at our community: we are too hesitant to move against prominent figures in our community, and not sufficiently sympathetic to the suffering of abuse victims. To present some clarity: The dogma of “innocent until proven guilty” in Judaism, as it occurs in the principles of Hamotzi Mechavero, Lashon Hara, and the need for two witnesses, only means we take no ACTION against an accused till proof is furnished. As far as harboring suspicion goes, the philosophy is the reverse: we are instructed TO SUSPECT, and to suspect BOTH PARTIES.… Read more »
I 100% support the Vaad’s reaction. If he committed that ugly crime, LET US PUNISH HIM SEVERLY so to send a clear message to all those who are chasing after our kids. BUT MEANWHILE, be decent, and keep quiet.
FINALLY, the frum community has decided to react and expose those ugly people. Let’s trust our Beis Din and the Police, and let’s respect the victims and the families of tjhe abusers. After all, even families may be victims as sometimes, they are forced to keep silent as the abusers could also brutalize them.
Great letter, finally something positive out of our community council
I absolutely agree with the letter and I am pleased to see that this sad topic is FINALLY being discussed openly in the community. Abusers hurt victims, victims families, and their own families!!
There is no concrete evidence against the suspect!
I think this is absolutely correct. We need to find the proper balance: We cannot sweep these terrible crimes under the rug. We cannot sympathize with abusers. But there is no need to publicly shame the families (themselves victims) of the perpetrators. Report the terrifying details of the abuse to the authorities and testify at trial. But do not submit them to the court of public opinion unless formal, proper justice cannot be served (such as when statutes of limitation have run) or until it is indeed served. The Rabbonim’s letter was courageous and correct: go straight to the relevant… Read more »
The community is so fast to protect pedophiles and their families, but to date have failed to issue a letter to protect their victims… I wonder why?
Well written and is based on halacha. I am very glad we voted in Zaki.
Very important letter! thank you
how is zaki tamir name on this?? i heard him first hand tell 2 people that the person who was arrested should be confronted and exposed and evryone should know what he did? is he a 2 faced? and from what i hear chwatch has a lot of victims from this guy but they are over 23—- this will never stop
jews, stand up and say enough is enough
this went before rabbi osdiba in the past why is he still on our streets?
Well written and sensitive to the innocent family members.
No matter what the verdict, his wife, children and other relatives are all innocent. Please treat them the way you always have, maybe even a bit nicer than before because of the difficult circumstances they are dealing with. If your father was an (alledged?) abuser, how would YOU feel?
My heart goes out to ALL the victims. With Ahavas Yisroel, they and we can all make the best of the situation.
many cases of serious child abuse in CH involves family members, and is aided or at least covered up by family members
do not comment on this communal letter unless you have anything positive to say .It is now the nine days and any negative outpourings can be destructive (besides it is a great letter sensitive to all but especially to Halacha !)
i’d rather read a letter from rabbi osdoba…