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May 12, 2011
Chassidim Protest on Kingston Ave.
A group of Chassidim from Williamsburg took a Tznius battle against popular sheitel macher Iris Sherman to Crown Heights streets. By COLlive reporter in New York
Photos by Yossi Percia / COLlive
A dozen or so Chassidim from Williamsburg came Thursday to the neighboring Crown Heights, home to a large Lubavitch community, and were anything but polite guests.
They held up signs, shouted pesukim from Tehillim and some unclear words in Yiddish. One was even spotted with the pin button "Judaism Rejects Zionism."
What brought them to "Kan Tziva"?
A store in Williamsburg.
Iris Sherman, a popular sheitel macher and owner of Iris Salon & Spa at 1416 Kingston Avenue, recently opened a branch on Lee Avenue which caught the ire of these locals.
"Why would you be the first to start such a business in public, thereby breaking the Tznius fortress in our community," one of their signs read.
Another less modest sign, addressed Mrs. Sherman directly: "Iris! Please do not desecrate the kedush of our neighborhood."
One of the demonstrators, which was a mix of young bochurim and a few elder men, was heard screaming, "We don't believe in a false Messiah." (A reference to those who believe the Rebbe is Moshiach).
An employee for Iris Salon & Spa who spoke to COLlive.com but asked not to be named out of fear of harassment, said the group were "crazies."
"Iris has lots of friends and customers in Williamsburg, and they asked why doesn't she open a store there, close to their homes.
"Then a small group of crazy people started making problems. But everybody is begging us to stay open. A rabbi even called us asking not to close because women need such a place."
After protests in front of the store in Williamsburg didn't help, the vocal group decided to take the battle to the branch in Crown Heights.
Police was on hand but there didn't seem any reason to worry as the protesters were met by an amused bunch who didn't mind some action on a regular Thursday afternoon.
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THEY ARE COMING TO CH... to complain about US GOING TO THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD????
The signs say "our neighbourhood".... uh, since when has CH become THEIR neighbourhood???
Anyone knows what they are talking about??
Please, enlighten those that don't.... I am sure I am not the only one questioning their reasoning when calling CH "our..."
????????????????
This goes agains THEIR values and therefore respectfully are asking her to stop that.
Kol Hakovod to them for standing up to THEIR values. We could learn something from them.
They are right about THIS.
JUST IMAGINE A TV CAFE'
during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
yashar koach
A proud lubavicher,
ps:
only a defensive (fake) lubav will be closed minded to the validity of their valid right to stand by their belifs
Hey Liberals: ..where is ur "TOLERANCE"?!
u only tolerate when u like whats being said!
sadly these satmers have a point!
I too agree with them, theres nothing chabad about what we see on kingston Ave.
the Rebbeh must be crying at the self loathing women shamelessly hurting their families by vialating Halacha borabim
anyone who reads what the Rebbe said re the Topic knows the Brachos that are forfeited... when one violates Halachos of tznius etc (Tragedies etc R"L)
please change title to "Bored Hungerians protest in Crown Heights"
I don’t know where sinas chinum fits it. You don’t hate your neighbor if you’re trying to prevent his house (or him/herself) from being burned or if he/she is trying to jump off a cliff and you try to stop him.
they have no problem with a nail salon they just don't want it as a store front and she should respect their community and respect our community
during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
When they demenstrate against the state of Isreal, or whe they meet the the president of Iran, do you say the same? Or only when these narrow minded people do something that you believe in does it become a valid belief and everyone else is narrow minded? So I ask from you where is Your tolorance of Jews for Jesus etc.
For that reason alone it is enough to stop learning Torah and go out to protest!
They don't want Willy to look the way CH looks and they relize it starts slowly so they are trying to stop it from infortrating their community they way she did it here in CH.
If you think I'm wrong go for a walk on Kingston Ave and tell me if you thinkour commuity keeps the laws of Tznius.
Hats off the willy for stopping this snake and not letting this tumah get a foot hold in their shichna
about a nail salon being opened in their neighborhood, this time they are totally right and I totally agree with them; How sad things have become on the Rebbes 'shchuna'
THEY are right, and unfortunately WE are wrong;
Our levels in CH are constantly getting lower amd lower, and this whole new fashion with the brightly painted nails is another thing to think about changing or at least modifying;
I applaud them for their sincerity for not wanting CH and all it represents today, r''l , to enter their vicinity, the winds of 'modernity' are blowing strongly, its no wonder they're afraid;
Where are our Rabbis?? Kudos to Satmer for expressing their fears and apprehension, and shame on us, the so called Rebbes "Chassidim"
Maybe we should also bring along some breslov guys to dance on the street.
Go NK.
ITS A SAD DAY WHEN THEY FEEL LUBAITCH IS SPREADING MORE THEN JUST YIDDISHKIT
bec human nature considers lower Aveiros in private when the collective lowers its adherence to halacha
which in turn results in the blatant escelation of tragedies predicted by our Prophets (& warned by our Rebbe)
besides that, we should not look for advise from Neturei Karta.
and what is not tznius about the store??????
just GET A LIFE!!!!!!
someone mentioned that there are many not frum women living in ch, so we shouldnt "force" tznius...ummm im guessing you are one of the women who grew up in a chabad home and today walk around with your tichel falling off your head, sleeves- oops, i mean no sleeves, scoop necklines and hemlines that we can all see what color underwear you are wearing and YOU are trying to hide behind the "not frum women living in the community" doesnt matter how you dress or how far you go, a lubavitcher is a lubavitcher is a lubavitcher...u can tell from a mile away...so start acting like one!
iris has no right to start a machloikes in sucha community. they may be closed minded and have some crazy issurim, but if we were williamsburg and the CH of today (ie no respect for tznius) opened a shop in our community, especially one that focuses on womens beauty, i imagine we would feel the same way. she shoulda opened in someones basement instead
i love the flag bit!!! its hilarious!
... to all those silly ch-ers who agree with these crazies for sticking up to what they believe- what the?? to embarrass a women in public for opening a store and making money???
women in williamsburg should have iskafia and not go there!!!
confused what shemtov was doing????
unfortunately our relaxed standards have caused much harm to the community who now are just waking up and smelling the coffee....
lets gather a bus and protest their chulent eating thursday night! it degrades their level kedusha by eating taivos!
the willi woman also have a tayvah to use a salon how is that different from cham's heimishe chulent and kigel shop?
Are you expecting Iris not to sell to anybody who will dress not Tzniut?!!!!!
What do They want Iris to change.
Please DON'T DEFEND SATMAR, You may praise their manner.
there will be many local tzatzkes who will feel uncomfortable by their message,
but face it,
we live in a democracy & if u consider ur selves "open-minded"
then be open-minded to the possibility that they may be right on this matter,
maybe many of our problems & sufferings can be prevented if we had the blessings & protections that Torah promises comes to a Tznius community
but sadly on THIS they are legit!
gotta say it as it is!
simple as that
yes all extremes are tolerated!
we warmely tolerate the Satmer & the Women with super low self esteem too!
the Rebbeh had the highest standards of Ahavas yisroel,
thats why he begged his chasidim to be modest bec he knew the blessings that G-d gives for the whole family!
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R
during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
yashar koach
A proud lubavicher,
ps:
only a defensive (fake) lubav will be closed minded to the validity of their valid right to stand by their belifs
Hey Liberals: ..where is ur “TOLERANCE”?!
u only tolerate when u like whats being said!
sadly these satmers have a point!
they r right about zionism
they r right about not believing in false Moshiach
the Rebbeh never warned ppl of bad things happening etc (never Mussar)
exept for THIS topic
the Rebbeh urged & Begged women to be Tznius bec Major curses are foretold by our Prophets if Not cha"v
Their women are Tznius. And fashionable. I know, i work there every day.
I think that if they want people to take them seriously they need to bring signed petitions from their wives (not, cv, let them be seen in public!!)
tznius protects eretz yisroel.
I am scared to bring my kids to crown heights for this reason. This is why I moved on shluchos!!
78-i agree with 52 on this point-not everyone is frum....yet. but why should they be if they see so many frum people going off the derech?
but agree with 63-whats not tznuis about the store?
65-ha!
64-your missing the point. that comment was extremely sad indeed (yours)
69-I'll try to explain. A woman's body is kedushadik, if the person uses it in the right way, then it will remain kedushadik. We do not need to dress like arabs. But how is it Kedushdik to walk around without socks and a skirt that ends on the knees? I need not give examples.
70-a woman has a right to do anything. But the "right" to do things should be in the right way.
71-exactly. I am a Shlucha as well, and let me tell you, it's much easier to let your children see not frum, or not jewish people who are wearing pants than to let them see how crown heighters dress. I have been to crown heights recently and it was sad that 1 out of 8 frum people were dressed tznuis.
It's too much to read each one, but I got the idea.
Suggestion for Col, why not make a synopsis of the comments. Like facebook does with the "like" button.
When someone comments they can click, like, don't like, don't care.
That is sort of what I gather from this story.
Most people are feeling "nebach," but it's funny.
Other like it (the crazies).
and others are laughing and crying to much to care.
how about respect us, who gives you the right to come to our neiborhood and start shouting that we don't respect gedolie yisreal, and that we believe in a false messiah.
So NK"S mind your own ....
and so true, unfortunately
Why cant people admit when they're in the wrong??
We ARE wrong and they ARE right
However, I don't find the manner in which this was done very tznius AT ALL... They should ave leveled it with Iris herself (instead of PROTESTING in front of her store).
Additionally, saying statements about the Rebbe, while their signs say something or other about listening to Rabbonim, is not appropriate in the least! (Rebbe is greater than a rav).
Again, this doesn't mean the signs were wrong but a little sechel... Their signs mentioned Ahavas Yisroel... REAL Ahavas Yisreol in done in a LOVING way, not a screaming way.
So, yes, CH definitely needs some shocker to get us back into sync with the way we should be according to Halacha, and even more so, as being Chassidim of the Rebbe, but please... don't protest untzniusdikly.
ITS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH
CONQUER YOUR DESIRES AND BE STRONG FOR THEIR SAKE!
sadly they are
Please come back again
they came here as a way to put more pressure on iris to close her williamsburg store. all these reactions just show certain lubavitcher insecurities that we look bad in their eyes. i think they understand our standards are different, just like our mivtzoim are different from how they spend their time, and our approach to yiddishkeit is somewhat different too.
its time for lubavitchers to stop being defensive, and stop being aggressive towards our own women and trying to force extra tznius, that was never done before, on our women.
be proud of who we are. we dont have to measure up in their eyes.
the Rebbeh was equally in disagreement with Zionist-ideology!
(which was anti-theistic at its core)
yet at the same time, the Rebbeh was passionately pro-Eretz-Yisroel's right to defend its safety,
thus not to handover one inch to the enemy!
during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
I am deeply saddened by the comment in which they said, "We do not believe in false Messiah!" I, personaly, am not mishichist but I am not against them, let them have their different beliefs! But hearing this almost made me cry-how people from the same nation could say this face to face to another Yid. How someone could be so insensitive to another Yid is greatly saddening me. We all got the Torah, we all accepted it with open hands, we all listened to Moshe, every time in Jewish history, people are helping other Yidden no matter if they knew them or not! In the holocaust, for example, many people gave OTHER people their piece of bread. That is just one of hundreds of thousands of stories and yet here, the exact opposite is happening?!? Dont they/we realize that this is wrong?? COMPLETELY WRONG?!!? Every part of me wished everyone could see this comment-Satmar, Lubavitch, Litvish etc. Please pass this on to other people!!
S.S
Canada
Can't blame them in the least, summer is coming, the tops get tighter, the skirts shorter, the slits larger, tights are non-existent and nails in all different colors. We can learn from them.
if you are truly proud of being Lubavitch you wont march publicly down the street in a way the Rebbeh begged us NOT to!
Tznius is the ONLY area where the Rebbeh makes numerous promises for those who will adhere to Halacha
& the Rebbeh points to the curses R"L mentioned in Nach re a community which is immodest R"L
"the Rebbeh points to the curses R"L mentioned in Nach re a community which is immodest R"L
if this were true, why have i never been taught this in 18years of Beis Rivka?
in short
voicing disagreement is NOT sinas chinum!
one pat of torah is to be moicheh , machuh ,
like the holy rebbe from munkacher . minchas eluzur says
we need kanoiym
is sad
but there IS a reason why our community has the unspeakable spike of Tzaros R"L
at leastaccording to the Rebbe's own words
yes the Rebbeh loves us & thats precisely why he warned us against immodesty!
not bec he is a NK
but bec the curses mentioned in TaNACH
to the Families & community Hashem yishmor!
the moral of the story:
its not private biz how one dress in public
it ChasV endangers the surrounding family & community!
And second of all- I happen to really enjoy going for a mani Pedi once a month - and learned from my Kallah teacher to do so- it's supposed to be a relaxing pampering day, and what better place to go than a frum salon??
I am on their side
Also, why is a salon not tznius? Or not chassidish??? Women are supposed to look beautiful and feminine; the Rebbe encouraged it! So what could possibly be wrong with women getting their nails done or their sheitlach styled???
It has absolutely nothing to do with tznius. Don't say it is because they wear red nail polish. Every woman has a choice to make, and she will make that decision regardless of where her nails are done. There is only so much free choice to take away.
such idiots!
They are a fringe group who have nothing to do with their lives so they go around protesting places.
I agree the tznius in crown heights can be approved but this was not the Rebe's way and that's not why they came..they came to protest her store in Williamsburg..they don't care about Crown Heights.
love them hate them, on this i agree with them!
Who cares that these guys don't own Williamsburg and have no right to dictate who opens a store there?
Who cares that people in WB will protest against this store but not against perverts in their community who are protected by the so called Vaad Hatznuiss? Who cares?
I do because I am a Jew and despite the above I have to love them, so I care.
Her having a nail and beauty salon in no way "desecrates" the community.
What the heck is wrong with it? Make an honest case, don't through useless words around.
It's amazing how many people are taking out their anger on this poor woman. You have an issue with Tznius in CH, and the crazy people blame it on something unrelated, and you are so keen to join them. Chutzpe.
Okay, the community modernized over the years, but it's also a lot better.
I grew up in CH, we never had so many Shuls, with Torah learning...on a high level. This is new. So perhaps there are other things that do need working on, but that would the individual's responsibly.
Don't become a NK. They are reshuim. Again, NK are reshuim, and I have Torah sources to prove it. They are conspiring with goyim to kill yiden, the gemara says, we need to kill them. But due to the circumstances we wont. But just think about it, people who are chaiv misa are coming into CH?
And even if you agree (which is so supid because all the above comments are on tznius, and not the store) go about it in a different fashion.
Obviously, this will bring much mazal and bracha to this fine store.
All you pro NK people really need to evaluate you opinion. What is wrong? Why can't we have it on Kingston? It's done in a wholesome, appropriate fashion.
On a separate note, being that it is totally appropriate, why not support the community--since people are going to go outside for such services.
These people obviously have no life--demonstrating in the afternoon.
If they do come back I would assemble loud speakers and play them something they would not enjoy. Not for nikama (okay maybe a little), but because they are hurting this person's store.
Tell these amai haaretz to learn a gemara (these services are mentioned several times--as a good and normal thing). In addition, us Jews have been using such services since yetzias mitzraim, through bayis rishon etc. So on a Jewish level--they have no case.
But thats besides the point, even if you do not enjoy that place, be mentchlach. Don't fall to these peoples level.
The horrible comments above are shocking. This woman is not responsible for the tznius level in CH. Each person has their oen life to run, with help from their chosen friends, mashpiim, etc.
Incidentally, the store in Williamsburg is only open because people attend.
Woman do partake in these MUTAR services, so why not receive them from a frum Jew?
Again, loud speaker...blast anything that's louder than them. I don't care, even Shwekey (yes sfira, but the heter is to save the parnasa of a family).
You guys in CH have the advantage of an electrical outlet :-)))
I want to tell you to go somewhere, however COL wont publish my words if I do.
for booking information please contact the agent at crazyjewsrus@wernuts.com
they will do weddings, bar mitzvas, graduations, and corporate events
Iris is very, very respectful of people's standards, and dedicated to Tznius.
She opened a salon in Williamsburg since many people asked her to, and when she was terrorized there and demanded to leave, she agreed, as long as she be compensated the HUGE expense that went into the investment.
She's NOT trying to bring a "modern" look to the streets of Williamsburg!!
instead they have to start acting like a bunch of crazy fanatics and no one will listen or respect what they have to say??
That's what is meant by Haschaga protis.
but they don't care to do things that way themselves.
Vandalizing someone's store? [they did that to the Williamsburg branch]
Blackmailing?
Hurling abusive insults?
Ruining someone financially?
Since when is that the way of Torah??
Its a wholesome tznius salon.
And please, everybody stop acknowledge that they are right for being forward about the tznius issue. This issue isn't about tznius--so yes....chill out
Get them for the Great Parade!!
thank you
Apparently they agree that a salon compares to blockbuster, since their issue is with it being on "Kingston".
these men have turned yiddishkeit into a circus
I think those men standing in the street like that is bitul torah and more untznius.
They wanna stand there like that....just walk passed them...they want their wives to look ugly and not well taken care of...our pleasure. Whats the whole fuss for?
It is ridiculous how everybody takes one story of a beauty salon and blames CHers dress and tznius. we're not perfect and we know that...just focus focus focus.....
and realize that we're all wasting our time on this stupid chat thing
Also, to those who are blaming whatever tragedies may have befallen your community (and I have no idea what tragedies they are, but they must be serious to provoke this kind of reaction) on the way the women are dressing: WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? An argument like that makes God appear unreasonable, arbitrary and completely unapproachable. Grow up and realize that sometimes bad things happen. Pray they dont happen again, do some soul searching to improve your OWN lifestyle, and stop casting blame on entire groups of people. Especially on a public forum. Are you aware that I found this link on Facebook, which makes it pretty much available to anyone out there. Is this really the way you want to portray yourselves and your community? This is precisely the reason I and so many others left the Jewish community. I promise, one less nail salon would not have made a difference in my decision
Who owns the streets of Crown Heights?
The Rebbe said that all Jews are holy.
I believe that everyone faces their creator in their own way in their own time
I imagine even those Jews in flip flops with red toe nails
I imagine even they are deserving of G-ds love and certainly the Rebbe's...so they may be a little lost along the way...One thing is for certain they won't get lost in Williamsburg...not likely...the level of Tzniius there is very high and obviously patrolled fervently by the men who live there.
Why is there so much hate and anger and condemnation...are we not vessels of light?
Through example we can shine like the Daughters of Israel that we are...royalty inside and out..but what I am hearing here are accusations - one Jew against another - over and over again - its a shame.
I'm a proud Lubavitcher, and proud of the majority of CH which dresses tznius, thus showing respect and regard to their community. Yet I'm ashamed of the minority who disrespect the Rebbe's shchunah.
I'm not perfect myself, but the flagrant abuse of tznius times 1,000, makes me very uncomfortable. I suspect the Rebbe too.
bec human nature considers lower Aveiros in private when the collective lowers its adherence to halacha
which in turn results in the blatant escelation of tragedies predicted by our Prophets (& warned by our Rebbe)
LET IT CLARIFY THE HALACHA AND WHAT IS EXPECTED OF US CHASSIDIM HOW TO BEHAVE IN THE STREETS.
EVERY ROV, AND EVERY MECHANECH, EVERYONE IMPORTAND, SHLUCHIM, ETC. SHOULD SIGN PROUDLY ON THIS PAPER. LET OUR KIDS AND FRIENDS KNOW HOW WE EXPECT TO SEE THEM IN THE STREETS. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE CAN'T TOLERATE THIS ANYMORE.
MANY MORE SHOULD JOIN THIS TZNIUS CAMPAIGN.
WE HAVE GONE SO FAR... THAT SOME OF US HAVEN'T REALIZED, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG..
AND THEN THEY SEE THE FRIEND WEARING SOMETHING.. AND WOULD LIKE TO GET THE SAME CLOTHE WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING, AND THE TREND JUST CONTINUES...
DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS!
WE HAVE TO CHANGE! FOR US, FOR OUR CHILDREN, FOR LUBAVITCH, FOR THE REBBE..
AND YES.. THE REBBE EXPECTS OF US THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF TZNIUS, YES THE TOP!
LOOK HOW THE REBBE IN IGROS PRAISES SOME MINHAGIM OF TZNIUS THAT THEY DO IN COMMUNITIES LIKE WILLIAMSBURG..
ANYHTHING IN THIS REGARDS SHOULD ONLY BE PRAISED AND ENCOURAGED.
the first step is KABOLAS OL,
we accept halacha and our 'masores' the most important, and we act accordingly.. and especially in the streets..
so one may say 'well i know very well who i am!' and I'm not the greatest Tzadik, so who am I to comment about this! is my head Tzniusdik?? better just keep quiet i maybe worse than the people dressed that way, etc. etc......
and others would take it a step further and say 'so if i'm anyway not so 'Holy' then my dress also doesn't have to holy..
The obvious answer is: that this is no excuse!
and IT AIN'T MATTER WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR BRAIN, or IN YOUR HOUSE, IN YOUR ROOM!!
just doesn't matter!
WHAT DOES MATTER? WHAT IS IMPORTANT?
IT'S IMPORTANT the way you ACT OUTSIDE, the way YOU ACT ON THE STREETS!!
THAT REALLY MATTERS!!!!!!!!!
and that comes FIRST AND FOREMOST !!
SORRY BUT U HEARD THAT RIGHT!
Since when is the issue not about the demonstrators?
I fail to understand the point of the article, if it wasn't that demonstrators (who have already been harassing Iris in Williamsburg) came all the way to CH to further harass and publicly vent (about issues that have nothing to do with Crown Heights.)
Yes, it's true we want things done the Torah way, but that was not the article's point.
(It's true the discussion took a turn, but I fail to see how commenters connected that to the article.)
Who's alleged wrong doing has what do do with our community? I'm confused; I don't understand.
My comment was in response to someone who said that the issue [the demonstrators had] is not that a salon was opened, but that it wasn't done in private, in a Torah way.
That was exactly my point; that one alleged wrong doing does not justify another.
IN FACT today's MAHSPI'IM and RABONIM that lead us, are COL etc...... (sadly.. but truly)
they should be extra careful,every article, every pic, every link,
THEY HAVE A MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY!
for us, for our kindelach, for the Rebbe, for Moshiach,
No one ever asked Iris to PLEASE move out.
One day soon after she opened, her workers phoned her hysterically, that an angry mob had gathered outside, throwing rocks at her storefront. The frightened girls ran into the bathroom, locked themselves in, and frantically called her and the police.
And then started the phone calls... Calling her Osama Bin Laden, and demanding that she leave... threatening her...
Yes, all they had to do was kindly ask her to leave.
And reimburse her for the huge expense she put into opening the salon, if they felt it wasn't as per their standards.
Nothing to do with Crown Heights standards.
It hurts me to hear people being bad-mouthed.
If something pains us, please, let's do something in our power to fix it. Disparaging someone never did.
[Emor Me'at v'aseh Harbeh...
Divrei Chachomim B'nachas Nishmoin]
its a shame that you spent so much time typing your thoughts but didn't take the time to space it out and chop it into paragraphs
-below the knee
-below the elbows
-cover the neckline
-no bare legs
-outside always with sheitel
now, what if i'm already doing so, i can still enhance my tznius,
if i wore socks up until now, i will now begin to wear tights..
or
from now on i"ll stop wearing my jeans!
i will wear more honorable clothes - more Royal!
i won't shout out or greet someone loud in the street!
next time i buy something, a car, a house, furniture, let it be something which is more tzniusdik. modest.. (doesn't have to shout out! unnoticed).
i will talk nicer to my friends, with more dignity, more respect,
i'll think more tzniusdik
we can always get better at tznius,
it's a daily topic, thru our lifespan.
but the basic level just has to be! regardless!
and at the very least - outside!
out there we gotta be dressed appropiately!
Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka never, but never, wore RED/MAROON/DARK PINK or even PINK nail polish; There is nail polish and nail polish; This is a FACT, and well do you know it
May Hahem have Mercy on these jews, and show them the true Derech
Better stop ladies from buying there, then Iris will have no reason to stay open....
These busy bodies should take a little economics class, it would take them a long way...
Could it be... that maybe they came to us because they are bored, have nothing to do and wanted some attention?
Maybe they wanted to be on COL...?
But hey, who doesn't?
DN
Just imagine how the rebbe would have reacted to these people actions.I feel saddened and deeply concerned about the comments above saying that NK must be right because they are so strong in tznius. Where is lubavitch going???????
It would appear that many many many of us are deeply touched and affected by the whole ongoing sad saga that is raging in CH; Surely the fact that soooooooooo many reacted the way they did, signifys something huge; Maybe, finally, its time, we opened our eyes and saw things for what they really are, i.e. a total and blatant loss of Tznius in every single sense of the word . . . in the very Rebbes Shchuna;
No one with any sensitivity or honesty can possibly deny that at this point;
The proof is screaming out at us from this unbelievable reaction on the part of so many, on COL; Pause for thought????
I wonder why our overzealous police did not see this as obstructing pedestrian movement
The Gemara relates that Rav Ada bar Ahava was once walking in the market when he noticed a woman wearing a red cloak. Thinking that she was a Yiddishe woman who was acting untzniusdik, Rav Ada immediately tore the cloak off of her. He later found out that she was a goyishe woman and was therefore obligated to pay her four hundred zuz for what he had done. The Rebbe derives from this the importance of acting immediately to protect the tznius of Yidden. See in ùéçåØ÷ úùØì çØà ò× 59. So, YES, Satmar are right THIS TIME. And it's shameful that we NEVER see any Lubavitcher protesting the poor situation in CH. There are plenty of Lubavitch communities around the world with very high standards in Tznius, but why not applying them in Ch as well?!
ppl dont realize that when torah says somthing brings curses to ones surroundings it MUST be taken seriously!
these negative consequences of immodesty is foretold in Nach
they are Not my own observation!
everyone is asking why the sudden increase in craizy fatal deaths all arround us??
maybe the Rebbeh was right for urging us to head the laws of Tznius which = Blessings & Protections etc
the reality is that it doesn't make a difference why and bec of whom we are encouraging and enhancing Tznius.
Tznius is correct and has to be fixed, and any positive input in this direction should be encouraged, always!
÷,áì àú äàîú îîé ùàîøä' -àôéìå ôåï à âåé
'accept the truth from the one who said it' -even if comng from not desireable sources..
before davening, learning chitas, sefer hamitzvos, etc, the first priority is tznius!
and tznius means many things.. but the first simple notion of tznius means dressing according to halacha and even more so - dressing like a Chossid!
My opinion is known that the proper length that applies equally to all Jewish daughters and in all places is that the [length of the garment be such that the] knees be covered even while sitting.
As already stated, that which I mentioned above is the minimum amount that applies equally to all.
However, since there are places where this minimum amount is insufficient for with regard to matters of tznius and the like, in addition to the fact that there are observances of tznius in different places that are not to be changed, there are also details that depend on the custom of the place (i.e., they depend on the custom to be stringent, but not to be lenient) it is incumbent on the local Rav who provides Halachic decisions, to clarify and rule with regard to that particular place.
Additionally and this too is of primary importance the necessity to be stringent in accordance with the conditions of the location, does not necessarily mean that this is a mere stringency. For it is also possible that the conditions of the place cause it to be a Torah prohibition. And we find this to be so with regard to many matters.
Excerpt from a letter of the Rebbe, 13 Cheshvan , 5732
Ahavas Hashem begins with our own community first.
so sad but so true, I felt embarrased meeting someone on the train, davening the whole way holding a chitas, and wearing half clothes on all sides.....
160-Why are you surprised? How could schools preach if the teachers themselves are not tznuis?
180-there was a demand for it. read 196 said
185-your comment made me almost cry. while i think 204 is extreme, i can relate to what heshe is saying
190-Why? 179 has a valid point, and why are you singling that comment out from all the others?
192-huh?
189-agreed.
215-yes, it says clearly that if people are not tznuis, they will cause themselves and others great pain. you dont know what your talking about.
221-your wrong. the MAJAROITY are not tznuis.
222-waiting for someone to mention that!!
206-ha!
226-yes!!
227-ill be the first to sign!
228-please write an op ed!!
230-these comments are direced to you.
thank you 239
249, and 26-we did. the reasults were horrible. as 231 pointed out.
PLEASE STOP CALLING THESE PEOPLE SATMAR!!
I dont understand...many people are saying, ON THIS I AGREE. what do you agree? that the salon should move? you guys should read each and every comment here. I advise everyone too. It is amazing what people have to say!!
kind, who think like you will leave CH. Hopefully you will be gone
soon, along with all those "cool" buchurim that you seem to admire so much. They are very UGLY & disgusting to have them
here in CH. If that's the kind of girls they like to "Look at" they
are all over, Las Vegas, L.A., Miami, Rio, a nice sunny beach,
etc. They are walking the streets everywhere. What a wonderful
thing you have to say about your teachers, rebbeim, mashpiim,
yeshivahs, & shuls you attend. I guess you can just blame it on
your disgusting education & upbringing. I am sorry that's what you
received & hopefully others will learn from reading what you have to say, & will guard themselves & their children & friends from
such terrible influences. What you call "Chasidishe girls", are
NOT Chasidish at all, none of them. Of course you & you kind
do not understand this at all. Hopefully you & you friends, boys
& girls will get help.
...oy lonu kee chotonu ....
The lesson, based on the principle of Hashgacha Pratis governing every detail of Creation, was obtained regardless of whom it was obtained from--even base and gross goyim! The lesson WE have to draw from seeing this is likewise irrelevant to WHOM we get it from. Call them what you will--Satmar, Neturei Karta or whatever---they are certainly no worse than those goyim--actually imcomparably much higher and better!
by dressing like a pros...u only send a message of low self regard & desperation for male attention on the street,
your sense of importance should derive from ideals of substance & depth.
(for those ladies who are unhappily married, seeking grabbing male attention on the street only degrades ur sense of value even further)
what is wrong with having a nail salon in your neighborhood?
they are wrong!
(sorry if this u fends of you out there)
15
life long Crown hightser
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R
during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
examined. She doesn't seem to know that what she is showing
off. Rashi says that a women like that is Hefker & can be taken
by all. Unfortunately that is the new wave of this untznius womens movement
You don’t hate your neighbor if you’re trying to prevent his house (or him/herself) from being burned or if he/she is trying to jump off a cliff and you try to stop him.
all who study the subject know well,
the great punishments that one invites by public violation of modesty,
this aint mussar,
this is Tanach!
No doubt
there will be many local tzatzkes who will feel uncomfortable by their message,
but face it,
we live in a democracy & if u consider ur selves “open-minded”
then be open-minded to the possibility that they may be right on this matter,
maybe many of our problems & sufferings can be prevented if we had the blessings & protections that Torah promises comes to a Tznius community
I T CAN BE DONE . You just need the WANT .May Hashem bring Moshiach now!!!
the ones who can influence this situation is YOU!
it really depends on the man at home..
learn the halachos, go to a rov, speak to a mashpia and ask their opinion/advice.
get some idea how to change things at home. how to have a positive influence in this regard on your spouse, your children,
learn how/when to comment, don't just leave it up the ladies..
don't belittle yourselves,
with much patience and determination you can have a beautiful royal family,
giving much nachas and having much impact on the community
your wife, your children want your guidance,
they want to hear you!
and whether they express positively or not, speak with lot's of love, lot's of stories, bring yiras shomayim into your home, starting first bechitzoiniyus - externally (thanks #228), Yiras shomayim is not 'hergeishim' (feelings), rather it means action! dressing according to halacha is basic yiras shomayim
set a plan of action and start today!
(reads up on how immodesty damages & brings R"L plagues)
its NOT judgmental to inform them, & beg them to stop bringing a Mageifa to our community,
if i drill a whole in my seat the boat will sink! its NOT judgmental to judge that action as DAMAGING! & INCONSIDERATE OF THE PUBLIC INTEREST!
try it, test it, Brachos of the Rebbeh are always immediate!
We should go out and stop it now! We should explain these women that in CH the Rebbe's sechuna you have to respect your community, go outside and dress how you like not here!!
If you choose not to be 100Tznius[ please have some class and dont dress like a portarican!!
You ain't impressing anyone, so please keep your tznius and your mind.
Let's not point fingers who is right and who is wrong and worry about our own homes and our own issues. The grass might seem greener on the other side only because your not nurturing your own grass.
I also think that if the woman in Williamsburg are coming to Crown Heights to do these things are they coming to hide from their own community ways? To me this does not make sense on why it is ok to come here but not ok to be in the community.
People can say I am crazy and comment all they want I don't care because I know my parents brought me up right and I know my children will be brought up right.
BH up until now there has been no issue of tznius in my home,
why does it matter anyway whether you have issues or not?
the fact that my fellow lubavitcher brothers and sisters are behaving this way in the streets, hurts me and my family very much, and embarrasses the Rebbe..
we are one family, we love each other, and how dare we stab our father, and more so in public..
let's not respond with words! we need to respond with action.
and you're right!
we should start with our families first,
and immediatel even before so, first with our selves,
to begin caring about the issue, be extra carefull with even minor details each one according to their level.
as someone commented, your family and friends will see an enhancement in your lifestyle, and that will begin a good trend.
look at yourself for example;
instead of just accepting the lifestyle you chose up until now, i.e. to wear a tichel outside the house, which is clearly not to the nachas of the Rebbe.
instead of continuing your way,
maybe you should make a difference! in your and your family's life,
and imagine the impact you will have on all those around you, unbelievable!! a million points!
one small change (the uncomfort of the sheitel will disappear eventually - once you get use to it) can change the community and change the world!
and the bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the impact.
and when you make that change, do it proudly! the impact will be even greater!
one point to add:
imagine the influence this is all having on our sons, our boys!
if parents speak about this at home,
or if one comments to his daughter (or even wife) in a respectable manner, some thing he found not abiding to tznius,
now your son (or your brother,etc) standing nearby hears you, (make sure that he's around to hear you every once in a while). that can have everlasting influencet!
in other words, our boys need to hear tznius too
i shall share a story,
a family member of mine, a respected magid shiur, came once here to the Rebbe for yom tov. his wife wears one of the old style yerushalmi tichels (she comes originally from a yerushalmi not lubavitch family),
once, while standing around the dining room table i happen to notice some motioning bet him and his wife, i was around 16 at that time (and didn't know too much, althought i did always have that background of my mother speaking to my sisters in about tznius) and it took me a little bit of time but then i figured i out;
he noticed from the opposite side of the table, that some (very little) of her hair was mistakenly sticking out of her tichel, so he was motioning to his wife to stick it back in..
and being a very respectful couple, she immediately did stuck it in and continued what she was doing,
this was all done quietly w/o commotion.. and it had a massive imprint on me. I then realized the importance of the hair (even a tiny bit of hair) to be always covered, I then also witnessed their respect and admirance to one another, and all done with such simplicity, such modesty. just beautiful.
everytime we talk about it, we comment, we dress and act more tzniusdik, it's one step ahead in the right direction.
thank you all for the inspiration
look how many comments this brought!
to 291-they dont mind the salon, they just dont want it on the main street.
Okay, next time im in crown heights, if i see someone not tznuis i will go over to her and talk to her. Why are shluchos so much more tznius than others?
just remember that the typical women who has the need to dress that way is (sorely) misrable on the inside (& clearly are starving for attention of the wrong kind,
we need to love them & show true Compassion they are not REBBELLING as much as they are suffering in their marrieges from insufficient satasfaction from their own hubby's attention!
how sad,
dont hate them!
feel bad for them! & thank g-d ur NOT given their desperation & low self dignity-image
they are surely ignorant!
no loving wife/mother would intentionally put their "low-self-esteem" ahead of their family's blessings (promised by Torah)
that's not our derech and we are not trying to change williamsburg,
The way I see it is that Torah and everything Jewish should always be remembered and followed...but the times are changing and there's nothing wrong with modernizing as long as you stay true to your religion and beliefs.
People should start focusing on themselves and their own families before they start nitpicking at others. Everyone always talks about how Crown Heights and Lubavitch is not tznius anymore blah blah, and if it indeed is that way, then stop being hypocrites; we all have our imperfections! What ever happened to ahavas yisroel?
We need to stop blaming the outside world for the mishaps in our community! The outside world will constantly change but as long as we have Hashem, do mitzvos and stop critizing our neighbors, we will be okay! Promise!!
Moshiach Now!!!
My question is: how many parents tell their daughters such very important things?
And to all those who deny there is a issue of tznius in CH or who are claiming that we should be tolerant on the matter, you are those who are encouraging such violation of Halachah. The time for kind wors is over. It has been for so many years that we're using kinds words, and for what result? NOTHING! So, we need to tale action now that kind words had no result in improving the tzinus in CH, as the Rebbe said "HaMa'ase Hu HaYikar."
girls and women dressed (or undressed) inappropiately coming to shul, even to 770! what an embarrasment!
CHUTZPAH!
WHERE'S THE MINIMUM RESPECT?
thanks
it''s nice to get some backing and strength from this website.
& to Educate them & Inform them what Torah says happens to those who violate... R"L
As far as I'm concern they should protest to the Iris Sherman like normal people!
There's no point at all to put the blame on chabad!!
We are not the owners of this Salon and it's definitely not our problem!
I wont be surprised if when they need a shidduch, they dont meet the girl!
*Seriously, though, do they date?
I think the issue is who is "they".
Williamsburg probably has - like CH - many degrees of "kedusha", many rabbonim, etc. and there are probably many people there who have no problem with an establishment for women, by women.
maybe the handful of protesters belong to one family whose ladies run a private home-based nail treatment business which is now threatened by competition. and it would then be par for the course for them to make the issue a religious one...
(note how mixed into this mini-protest there's israel, moshiach, whatever they can they throw)
at least she isent dressing in a provocative or offensive way
at least she shoes them respect for their values & sensitivities!
IRIS is a good heart & would never do anything that can hurt other peoples sensitivities
im sure she is currently seeking ways to relocate to a less in-your-face location
i happen to to disagree with IRIS's choices & at the same time Respect & love her as a fellow jew
i do not judge her as a person!
i simply think she & i see the world differently, and thats ok!
this is the way of our Torah,
"lets agree, to dis-agree, agreeably"
Halevai all other "chabad" sites had a sophisticated tone such as this site