May 12, 2011
Chassidim Protest on Kingston Ave.

A group of Chassidim from Williamsburg took a Tznius battle against popular sheitel macher Iris Sherman to Crown Heights streets.

By COLlive reporter in New York
Photos by Yossi Percia / COLlive


A dozen or so Chassidim from Williamsburg came Thursday to the neighboring Crown Heights, home to a large Lubavitch community, and were anything but polite guests.

They held up signs, shouted pesukim from Tehillim and some unclear words in Yiddish. One was even spotted with the pin button "Judaism Rejects Zionism."

What brought them to "Kan Tziva"?

A store in Williamsburg.

Iris Sherman, a popular sheitel macher and owner of Iris Salon & Spa at 1416 Kingston Avenue, recently opened a branch on Lee Avenue which caught the ire of these locals.

"Why would you be the first to start such a business in public, thereby breaking the Tznius fortress in our community," one of their signs read.

Another less modest sign, addressed Mrs. Sherman directly: "Iris! Please do not desecrate the kedush of our neighborhood."

One of the demonstrators, which was a mix of young bochurim and a few elder men, was heard screaming, "We don't believe in a false Messiah." (A reference to those who believe the Rebbe is Moshiach).

An employee for Iris Salon & Spa who spoke to COLlive.com but asked not to be named out of fear of harassment, said the group were "crazies."

"Iris has lots of friends and customers in Williamsburg, and they asked why doesn't she open a store there, close to their homes.

"Then a small group of crazy people started making problems. But everybody is begging us to stay open. A rabbi even called us asking not to close because women need such a place."

After protests in front of the store in Williamsburg didn't help, the vocal group decided to take the battle to the branch in Crown Heights.

Police was on hand but there didn't seem any reason to worry as the protesters were met by an amused bunch who didn't mind some action on a regular Thursday afternoon.


Most Read Most Comments






















Bookmark and Share
Opinions and Comments
1
its not satmar, they are nenturei karta
please change the title, it might offend satmar chasidim
(5/12/2011 4:13:05 PM)
2
????? PUZZLED ??????
I don't get it.... what is this all about??
THEY ARE COMING TO CH... to complain about US GOING TO THEIR NEIGHBOURHOOD????
The signs say "our neighbourhood".... uh, since when has CH become THEIR neighbourhood???
Anyone knows what they are talking about??
Please, enlighten those that don't.... I am sure I am not the only one questioning their reasoning when calling CH "our..."
????????????????
(5/12/2011 4:15:30 PM)
3
PUZZLED???
They are against Iris opening a nail salon in their neighborhood-Williamsburg
(5/12/2011 4:18:19 PM)
4
Kol hakovod!
A lubav woman is opening a branch of beauty spa in williamsburg as a store front.
This goes agains THEIR values and therefore respectfully are asking her to stop that.
Kol Hakovod to them for standing up to THEIR values. We could learn something from them.
(5/12/2011 4:19:45 PM)
5
!!!
theres never a time that satmar chassidim stop bothering chabad!!!
(5/12/2011 4:22:14 PM)
6
maybe now something will change..
finally...
(5/12/2011 4:23:20 PM)
7
to # 2
They are talking about their community... IRIS opened a place in Williamsburg and they are against her.
(5/12/2011 4:23:23 PM)
8
Its about time
If our Rabbonim and our Mashpiim are clueless and our schools are helpless and our parents are ignorant, then maybe Satmar should teach us a thing or two. Kingston Ave is out of hand and nobody knows what to do about it while our kids are getting lost to so called fashion
(5/12/2011 4:24:01 PM)
9
sinas chinum
Sinus Chinum during sfera. What an opportune time!! Isnt that what destroyed the bais hamikdosh! Isnt sfera a time to strengthen ahavas Yisroel?! I think we just ignore them BIG TIME!!!! If we do anything back, it will cause chaos and fighting! Jews shouldnt be fighting with each other, we've got enough pple in the world that hate us!! Please lets just ignore this and not make a big deal!! G-d blesses those who are kind and have Ahavas Yisroel!!! Please can we all not make this a big deal! The thing they really want is for us to get angry! By being quiet it will teach them many more things than by fighting back!!
(5/12/2011 4:24:38 PM)
10
LOL!!!!!
too funny...
(5/12/2011 4:24:55 PM)
11
what?
What are they protesting? Which store are they in front of?
(5/12/2011 4:24:56 PM)
12
Agree
I agree with them that our tznius has gone out of hand.
They are right about THIS.
(5/12/2011 4:25:54 PM)
13
its sad that they'r protesting the internet caffe'
considering the amount of damage & destruction caused by this medium (the internet) its understandable why ppl would find it offensive to ok it befarhesyeh as if its harmless!

JUST IMAGINE A TV CAFE'
(5/12/2011 4:26:29 PM)
14
This should be interesting!
I would like to see how "the intellectuals ones that know everything" react in their comments to this one!
(5/12/2011 4:29:52 PM)
15
life long Crown hightser
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R

during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
(5/12/2011 4:32:26 PM)
16
i ADMIRE them!
...for respectfully standing up for their Beliefs!
yashar koach

A proud lubavicher,

ps:
only a defensive (fake) lubav will be closed minded to the validity of their valid right to stand by their belifs

Hey Liberals: ..where is ur "TOLERANCE"?!
u only tolerate when u like whats being said!
sadly these satmers have a point!
(5/12/2011 4:37:32 PM)
17
to #9
They are doing this out of LOVE, worry not about their Sinas Chinom, worry about the low level our own community has been dropped to. They might be using a different tactic then we are used to, but it is definitely better then doing nothing.
(5/12/2011 4:38:17 PM)
18
yaaaaaaa
talk about a kiddush hashem......NOT, what a bunch of ingrates
(5/12/2011 4:40:00 PM)
19
What's Palestinian Flags got to do with it
Did you notice all of those well groomed nails holding those little Palestinian flags and the excellently coiffed paos and finely pressed sirtukes on those well intentioned boys? But why aren't they demonstrating in Williamsburgh unless they are just waiting outside the nail salon until their wives appointments are over and since they don't eat anything Lubavitch they needed something to do while waiting. They certainly don't need to learn, they know it all, already, just ask them.
(5/12/2011 4:40:30 PM)
20
to #15
well said!

I too agree with them, theres nothing chabad about what we see on kingston Ave.
the Rebbeh must be crying at the self loathing women shamelessly hurting their families by vialating Halacha borabim

anyone who reads what the Rebbe said re the Topic knows the Brachos that are forfeited... when one violates Halachos of tznius etc (Tragedies etc R"L)
(5/12/2011 4:42:08 PM)
21
why is sinas chinom?!
Its ahavas chinom! They care for yiddishe values! We should at leat try our ahavs chinom for a good purpose rather than a not-so-good purpose!
(5/12/2011 4:42:25 PM)
22
im # 9
Sorry, I miss understood this article. But I dont feel very comfortable with them protesting in our neighborhood. Its a liitle too aggressive and close for comfort.
(5/12/2011 4:43:49 PM)
23
kol hakovad to satmer
for pecefully protesting for something they have a right to protest for (how ther own neiboghrhood looks).
(5/12/2011 4:43:51 PM)
24
Agree with them
theres nothing Anti Chabad about what they are standing for
(5/12/2011 4:44:21 PM)
25
chassidim?
the title is misleading, i thought there were people who learn chassidus and hey were protesting.

please change title to "Bored Hungerians protest in Crown Heights"
(5/12/2011 4:44:54 PM)
26
Finally!
to # 15 A breath of fresh air. I feel like Crown Heights' standards of Tzniyus has truly gone out of proportion. I am baffled why we need Satmar to come out and protest and there are no Chabadniks.
I dont know where sinas chinum fits it. You dont hate your neighbor if youre trying to prevent his house (or him/herself) from being burned or if he/she is trying to jump off a cliff and you try to stop him.
(5/12/2011 4:45:21 PM)
27
Promoting higher standards = Brachos
ahavas yisroel is doing that which brings G-ds brachos to our community,
(5/12/2011 4:45:51 PM)
28
its 4:00
Don't they have jobs?
(5/12/2011 4:47:17 PM)
29
validity
I wholeheartedly agree with #12. It's humiliating to walk around CH seeing tight short skirts of mother's raising babies; teens with jean skirts so short & tight they cant even bend over; necklines intentionally to attract, and more. I'm no prude, but let's have some dignity and SELF RESPECT. They really do have a point even if they themselves are not upstanding in other areas, as we know about them.
(5/12/2011 4:48:16 PM)
30
i agreee
i agree with them 100% its not enough that ch has the worst tznius out there now we have to spread it to williamssburg!?!?
(5/12/2011 4:48:33 PM)
31
regular chosid
Were are the lubavitchers rabbis why dont they join in this demonstration the modern orthodox element in chabad of today emberesses the rebbe and lubavitch
(5/12/2011 4:48:38 PM)
32
Off the main st.
We should learn from them to keep this off the main street
they have no problem with a nail salon they just don't want it as a store front and she should respect their community and respect our community
(5/12/2011 4:48:45 PM)
33
Local Laweyr
i respect their right to voice their opposition, its a democracy. although i disagree with them, i still affirm their democratic right to speak their mind.
(5/12/2011 4:48:55 PM)
34
Higher Standard.
The sad fact is that walking through Williamsburg is in fact walking through a completely different environment then walking thru Crown Heights. Could Chabad function and be successful as an outreach movement if in fact they would dress and conduct themselves as Satmar do? Probably not! Shluchim must have Mesiras nefesh to be mekarev others, but that is coming at a very high price when that somewhat liberal conduct becomes the benchmark standard that one begins to lower and deviate from. A choileh mesuken may eat something that a healthy person may not. How one dresses on shlichus is not the model of how one should dress in Crown heights. On shlichus it is done for a purpose and one is careful to maintain a standard of halacha and tznius. Emulation of the basic modern style but allowing modernity to fall into areas of neged hatznius vihalocho is the problem in Crown Heights. Many Shluchim don't have an opportunity to daven with a Minyan every day but nobody uses that as an excuse to not go daven with a Minyan in C.H.
(5/12/2011 4:51:03 PM)
35
STOPPING a Mageifa IS AHAVAS YISROEL
I dont know where sinas chinum fits it. You dont hate your neighbor if youre trying to prevent his house (or him/herself) from being burned or if he/she is trying to jump off a cliff and you try to stop him.
(5/12/2011 4:51:25 PM)
36
Local
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R

during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
(5/12/2011 4:54:40 PM)
37
to #16
Are you serious? your logic is typical of frummies=twisted!
When they demenstrate against the state of Isreal, or whe they meet the the president of Iran, do you say the same? Or only when these narrow minded people do something that you believe in does it become a valid belief and everyone else is narrow minded? So I ask from you where is Your tolorance of Jews for Jesus etc.
(5/12/2011 4:56:20 PM)
38
proud Lubavitcher
They are Right! simple
(5/12/2011 4:56:52 PM)
39
to #25
They are trying to prevent a tremendous infiltration of a terrible spiritual plague called non-tzniyus that has engulfed and has infiltrated to a tremendous amount of observant Jews. Which nonTzniyus values are the main source and cause for a tremendous amount of divorces that have hit the Observant world in the past 2 decades.
For that reason alone it is enough to stop learning Torah and go out to protest!
(5/12/2011 4:57:23 PM)
40
I stand with you
I agree with them.
They don't want Willy to look the way CH looks and they relize it starts slowly so they are trying to stop it from infortrating their community they way she did it here in CH.
If you think I'm wrong go for a walk on Kingston Ave and tell me if you thinkour commuity keeps the laws of Tznius.
Hats off the willy for stopping this snake and not letting this tumah get a foot hold in their shichna
(5/12/2011 4:58:40 PM)
41
chabad is for Tznius too
they are not antagonistic to our values
(5/12/2011 4:58:45 PM)
42
great work
if WE ARE NOT BEING MOCHE LIKE WE SHOULD; B H WE HAVE SATMAR THAT IS:STOP THE MODERN IDEAS
(5/12/2011 4:59:19 PM)
43
A little clarification...
They are Neturei Karta
(5/12/2011 4:59:30 PM)
44
This time they're actually right!
The way 'our' women, fine upright women of Lubavitch from fine upright families, have their nails done, 'lekovod Shabbos' in red, dark pink, cherry colour etc etc is poshut a 'Bushus Chabad' . . the colors are beyond belief. . . whereas once it was a regular pale or neutral color, in a very aidele correct way, now all that has changed totally! Husbands, OPEN your eyes and see what your wives are wearing and what color theu come home with Erev Shabbos or Yomtov . . . before it gets any worse; Im sorry, but they are so right to feel this way
about a nail salon being opened in their neighborhood, this time they are totally right and I totally agree with them; How sad things have become on the Rebbes 'shchuna'
(5/12/2011 5:00:22 PM)
45
Respect
Whatever and however absurd this may seem to us, I believe we need to respect what they value and respect what they want and deem tznius. Kol Akavod for standing up for what you so rightly believe in.

(5/12/2011 5:00:43 PM)
46
Im # 9
Sorry I miss understood this article!!!!!!!!!
(5/12/2011 5:02:36 PM)
47
to #28
there are more lubavitchers there taking pictures with their iphones than neturei karta members,,,,, dont they have jobs???
(5/12/2011 5:02:44 PM)
48
response to 34
There is absolutely no heter to relax any standard of tznius for "outreach" Please retract the suggestion.
(5/12/2011 5:04:40 PM)
49
#15 is brutally honest
i totally agree! Bravo!
(5/12/2011 5:04:49 PM)
50
respect from Chabad
goota admire them! who in CH would publicly stand by their beliefs?
(5/12/2011 5:06:49 PM)
51
Satmar, head back to Williamsburg
Do not forget the days of club bashing Temimim's heads in the early 70s... for the sole reason of chabad bochurim going on Tahaloocha for Shavuos to spread the wellsprings of chassidus to that part of town. Chabad would never ever use sticks and stones to break bones. Understand that? So put up your DUKES and get Lost.
(5/12/2011 5:08:36 PM)
52
Rivkah
There is nothing to dispute here;
THEY are right, and unfortunately WE are wrong;
Our levels in CH are constantly getting lower amd lower, and this whole new fashion with the brightly painted nails is another thing to think about changing or at least modifying;
I applaud them for their sincerity for not wanting CH and all it represents today, r''l , to enter their vicinity, the winds of 'modernity' are blowing strongly, its no wonder they're afraid;
Where are our Rabbis?? Kudos to Satmer for expressing their fears and apprehension, and shame on us, the so called Rebbes "Chassidim"
(5/12/2011 5:10:35 PM)
53
Crown Heights is Home to many Frei Jews not Only Lubavitch
While Lubavitch would like to see all Jewish women dressed modestly, however, Crown Heights is home to many non-religious Jews with no connection to Lubavitch, never mind the countless Baalei Tshuva who still not there yet. Our shitta is not to force tznius. Nevertheless the residents should be more sensitive to our way of living regardless of their lack of commitment at present.
(5/12/2011 5:11:06 PM)
54
This is Great!!
We should invite them to Crown Heights every week to bring some exciement to the Schunah.
Maybe we should also bring along some breslov guys to dance on the street.

Go NK.
(5/12/2011 5:12:00 PM)
55
Embarrassed
Its embarrassing that they come here to CH to protest that we are trying to bring our way to their community. We should be leading the way we have a Rebbe its shameful that they feel we are ruining their neighborhood
ITS A SAD DAY WHEN THEY FEEL LUBAITCH IS SPREADING MORE THEN JUST YIDDISHKIT
(5/12/2011 5:13:29 PM)
56
to #52
Wake up and smell the coffee
(5/12/2011 5:16:54 PM)
57
a little question
ch may have tzinus problems but what is wrong with a beauty salon iris actuallly has a window that u cant see inside isn't it a mitzva for a woman to beauty herself for her husband? obviously it's done in a tsnius manner but should they go to goyisher places intead?
(5/12/2011 5:17:21 PM)
58
hidden Damage
before yall get all deffensive... lets remember that huge damage is done behind the scens when the public standards are lowered!
bec human nature considers lower Aveiros in private when the collective lowers its adherence to halacha

which in turn results in the blatant escelation of tragedies predicted by our Prophets (& warned by our Rebbe)
(5/12/2011 5:17:51 PM)
59
a confused crown heightser
what is wrong with a salon, they wear shaitels and get hair cuts also no??
(5/12/2011 5:20:13 PM)
60
Huh?!
What's "tznius?"
(5/12/2011 5:21:45 PM)
61
?!!
why are they (NK) advertising "love ur fellow as urself" when they protest agaisnt israel and side with the palestinians??!!!
(5/12/2011 5:24:23 PM)
62
To # 37
THEY R NOT NETUREI KARTA. You have noooo idea what you r talking about! IN ADDITION THEY ARE DOING THE RIGHT THING NOW! so who cares who they are! THEY ARE DOING WHAT TORAH WANTS THEM TOO!
(5/12/2011 5:26:52 PM)
63
#52
i agree so true not everyone is there yet...who are we to judge other people's tznuis or anything in general? maybe people are trying and working on themselves. everyone has something to deal with in this world and tznuis could be that issue for that one person. everyone has tzurres.

besides that, we should not look for advise from Neturei Karta.
(5/12/2011 5:29:23 PM)
64
OMG
these ppl dont really make sense---what does JUDAISM or ZIONISM have anything to do with this????????
and what is not tznius about the store??????

just GET A LIFE!!!!!!
(5/12/2011 5:29:57 PM)
65
they are crazy but right on this issue
they're nuts, but on this issue i have to agree. if a blockbuster opened in ch, im hoping there would be such a demonstration...im not naive, what we do in our own homes is in the privacy of that, if such klipa comes in an open form into our community and starts messing with kids heads as a whole...where does it end?

someone mentioned that there are many not frum women living in ch, so we shouldnt "force" tznius...ummm im guessing you are one of the women who grew up in a chabad home and today walk around with your tichel falling off your head, sleeves- oops, i mean no sleeves, scoop necklines and hemlines that we can all see what color underwear you are wearing and YOU are trying to hide behind the "not frum women living in the community" doesnt matter how you dress or how far you go, a lubavitcher is a lubavitcher is a lubavitcher...u can tell from a mile away...so start acting like one!

iris has no right to start a machloikes in sucha community. they may be closed minded and have some crazy issurim, but if we were williamsburg and the CH of today (ie no respect for tznius) opened a shop in our community, especially one that focuses on womens beauty, i imagine we would feel the same way. she shoulda opened in someones basement instead
(5/12/2011 5:30:13 PM)
66
why protest?
Why protest when you can just photoshop the store out of your neighborhood?
(5/12/2011 5:31:38 PM)
67
To: Rivkah 51
If you like life in the slow lane called Williamsburg - no problem. Go live there with the buttons to the upper neck. This is crazy. Would our young lubavitch "cool" bochurim marry satmar dressed girls? Maybe some would appreciate the simplicity of the old shtetl kind, but most want what they see now. Good up-beat, fun - chassdishe post seminary girls. Girls who make a difference in the future of Chabad.
(5/12/2011 5:33:22 PM)
68
lol to 53
can uncle moishy come too??

i love the flag bit!!! its hilarious!
... to all those silly ch-ers who agree with these crazies for sticking up to what they believe- what the?? to embarrass a women in public for opening a store and making money???
women in williamsburg should have iskafia and not go there!!!
confused what shemtov was doing????
(5/12/2011 5:33:29 PM)
69
They Are Right!!
(5/12/2011 5:33:57 PM)
70
Tznius?
Where in the Torah does it say that a woman must dress like an arab? hat's wrong with a woman expressing her beauty a little bit? Don't tell me "kol kvuda" because that's no dictum from the Torah.
(5/12/2011 5:34:45 PM)
71
still confused
who are there people and why are they on kingston av? do they have something against a womans rights? woman have the right to bare arms :)
(5/12/2011 5:35:14 PM)
72
to #34
On the contrary as a Shlucha I make sure i dress 100% (I try) tzniusdik, if not people won't take me seriously, could I preach about Shabbos and than drive to shul?. In the big world people who dress like some girls or ladies in crown heights are automatically recognized as the girls who stand on corners. It's sad how people don't even realize it.
unfortunately our relaxed standards have caused much harm to the community who now are just waking up and smelling the coffee....
(5/12/2011 5:36:03 PM)
73
THEY ARE TOTATLLY WRITE!!
THEY ARE TOTALLY RITE!!
(5/12/2011 5:39:17 PM)
74
very disturbing
what has come of the rebbes schunah? the streets have potholes! the sidewalks have potholes and now we have this!

lets gather a bus and protest their chulent eating thursday night! it degrades their level kedusha by eating taivos!

the willi woman also have a tayvah to use a salon how is that different from cham's heimishe chulent and kigel shop?

(5/12/2011 5:39:20 PM)
75
Another one
Why are they blaming iris for people dressing not Tzniut?

Are you expecting Iris not to sell to anybody who will dress not Tzniut?!!!!!
What do They want Iris to change.

Please DON'T DEFEND SATMAR, You may praise their manner.
(5/12/2011 5:40:25 PM)
76
California!
Theses people are nuts! Maybe they shoud live in LA for a bit!!
(5/12/2011 5:40:31 PM)
77
To Number 58
Salons do a whole lot more than ''shaitels and haircuts " how about red/pink nail polish for starters?? Open your eyes, guys . . .
(5/12/2011 5:41:16 PM)
78
satmar???
they have nothing to do whit samar!
(5/12/2011 5:42:12 PM)
79
to 56 and 58
thank you for being some of the few that realize how ridiculous and absurd this is:)
(5/12/2011 5:46:22 PM)
80
we should be the ones demonstrating
against those in CH who publicly breach the halachos of tznius on the streets of crown heights, in our stores in our schools and oficial mosdos (not even gonna get into what some so called Lubavitcher bugalow colony's look like unfortanetly in regards to tznius). we should take this demonstration as a wake up call.
(5/12/2011 5:46:38 PM)
81
hypocrites
Come on. So what if a woman wants to get a manicure or a pedicure, why should they care. Why do they bring in unrelated subjects if they are only protesting this salon and on top of it all, if only people knew how many of these holier than thou chassidim(if you can call them that) who do much worse...(more than any other group I would guess). Uhm, I think that and putting down other yidden and invading other frum neighborhoods are against the torah., much more so than a woman opening up a salon by and for women only. Give me a break. To these protesters I say get yourselves jobs and stop living off the backs of honest hardworking yidden. Oh by the way, isn't cheating against halacha. They have such high morals? oh puleeese.
(5/12/2011 5:50:11 PM)
82
hahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
This is sooooooooooooooo funnnnnnnnnyyyyyyyyy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/12/2011 5:51:53 PM)
83
!00% right
they are darn right. and we need to learn from them to act and dress more tzniusdikly!!!!!
(5/12/2011 5:54:03 PM)
84
HOT TOPIC
No doubt
there will be many local tzatzkes who will feel uncomfortable by their message,

but face it,
we live in a democracy & if u consider ur selves "open-minded"
then be open-minded to the possibility that they may be right on this matter,
maybe many of our problems & sufferings can be prevented if we had the blessings & protections that Torah promises comes to a Tznius community
(5/12/2011 5:54:19 PM)
85
crown heights resident
i thoroughly DISagree with them on every other topic
but sadly on THIS they are legit!

gotta say it as it is!
(5/12/2011 5:57:58 PM)
86
chabad is for Tznius too
On this they are Right!!

simple as that
(5/12/2011 6:00:14 PM)
87
mix message
i was there they used anti zion and derogatory remarks against our rebbe not allowed to stand with them shoulder to shoulder
(5/12/2011 6:01:54 PM)
88
Only in Crown Hights
do we accept all types of ppl with a smile,
yes all extremes are tolerated!
we warmely tolerate the Satmer & the Women with super low self esteem too!

the Rebbeh had the highest standards of Ahavas yisroel,
thats why he begged his chasidim to be modest bec he knew the blessings that G-d gives for the whole family!
(5/12/2011 6:03:27 PM)
89
Many Ignorant Lubavitchers
There are many comments defending these people for their protest as if somehow they are preserving the sanctity of their community as opposed to CH which has gone down the drain. People, wake up and realize that your neighborhood doesn't belong to you, it belongs to the greater public. If women in Williamsburg don't want a frum nail salon it won't do well and she'll go out of business. On the other hand, if there is demand for her services, then just because a few dudes with peyos don't like the idea - too bad! They can stand with their signs all they want and it won't matter. There seems to be an attitude that any time someone's actions aren't to the level of our own frumkeit we must protest. I wonder if the nail salon was opened by an Asian or Puerto Rican whether they'd be protesting...
(5/12/2011 6:03:39 PM)
90
a Life long LOCAL

I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R

during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
(5/12/2011 6:04:49 PM)
91
ya gatta respect them
...for respectfully standing up for their Beliefs!
yashar koach

A proud lubavicher,

ps:
only a defensive (fake) lubav will be closed minded to the validity of their valid right to stand by their belifs

Hey Liberals: ..where is ur TOLERANCE?!
u only tolerate when u like whats being said!
sadly these satmers have a point!
(5/12/2011 6:06:11 PM)
92
Shluchos don't lower the standard
People appreciate when you stand up for what you represent, and dressing nicely but tzniuisdikly shows that you're genuine. So does listening to people when they have a complaint, and trying to see things from their side. Let's practice what we preach!
(5/12/2011 6:07:02 PM)
93
Thanks Satmar guys! Keep on coming. It's good for business.
For a chassidishe lady that is... Kol HaKavod IRIS for opening up a Franchise. I tried the same years ago and it went bankrupt. Good location - Swindling Partners!! But hey, if Satmar people believe that a lady should only beautify herself in the confines of her home, so be it. If Chabad girls want to be done up in a store, so be it. So I have one word for you Satmars. Keep showing up every week. This guy's business will take off like a rocket! Thanks guys.
(5/12/2011 6:07:09 PM)
94
good for them
good for them, they stand up for the truth, crown heights is going lower and lower, look at all the women there how untzniusdkly they dress, it's embarrasing! they stand up for their rights and we should learn from them
(5/12/2011 6:07:12 PM)
95
Issues out of Tissues
A salon is for getting nails done and hair etc., and I'm sure many Williamsburg women go to salons regularly. Unless they will walk out of the salon with flip flops and bright red toes, what is the issue??? And I'm sure they appreciate looking good and tznius at the same time!! Nail polish and hair styling DOES NOT equal untznius!!
(5/12/2011 6:07:51 PM)
96
Hey, you guys be able to walking down about helf block?
I need it da more attention + advertisement in front of my printing internet cafe shop - maybe i gettin' on news TV tonite. Iz good for me and good for you. Zai Gezoont.
(5/12/2011 6:11:23 PM)
97
It seems that mant Lubavitchers agree
It seems from teh responses to this article that I am not the only one who thinks that there is areal problem with tznius in Crown Heights. It's aBUSHA for Lubavitch and teh Rebbe. Time for change befor it's too late.
(5/12/2011 6:11:44 PM)
98
Oh My !!! This is getting so hilarious!!!!!
I love these funny comments. I am plutzing in my chair. And I'm a chartered accountant working in Manhattan commercial district. I haven't had such a good laugh in years. I say Yasher Koach to Iris, whoever you are, keep on franchising. What a professional ploy to get attention. I would do the same.
(5/12/2011 6:13:21 PM)
99
The Shariah
Their women are prisoners. This is not about tznius. It is about domination and control. Their aggression brings no one closer to Hashem.
(5/12/2011 6:19:27 PM)
100
quit being a victim!
Surely these folks have some type of a point, although determining exactly what it is, might take some deliberation. Nonetheless, when it comes to Yirash Shomayim, one cannot act the role of a victim. Trying to change others in this way is to imply "I am a victim of your behavior so i need you to change". One will never succeed to serve Hashem on this basis. We, all of the men in the Shechunah that is, are being called to go deeper within ourselves to find a connection with Hashem that is powerful enough to keep us connected to him and to his will for us.
(5/12/2011 6:19:36 PM)
101
they r right
they r right about tznius
they r right about zionism
they r right about not believing in false Moshiach
(5/12/2011 6:21:37 PM)
102
#58 is SCARRY BUT TRUE
IMMODESTY = TZAROS R"L

the Rebbeh never warned ppl of bad things happening etc (never Mussar)
exept for THIS topic

the Rebbeh urged & Begged women to be Tznius bec Major curses are foretold by our Prophets if Not cha"v
(5/12/2011 6:31:20 PM)
103
To 95
Depending on the COLOR nail polish and length of hair/shaitel, very often till the waist almost, DOES spell 'untziniysdik', lets not kid ourselves . .
(5/12/2011 6:33:39 PM)
104
They may make a good point but-
- If it is inappropriate to have such a store in public in their neighborhood, how is it okay for them to contaminate their heilige, pure eyes by standing outside Iris' salon in CH??
(5/12/2011 6:34:02 PM)
105
THEY ARE WRONG on all other topics
On this they are RIGHT
(5/12/2011 6:35:00 PM)
106
proud crownhightser
I agree with them fully! (on THIS point)
(5/12/2011 6:36:03 PM)
107
One way to get rid of them
Is to parade women from Crown Heights in their half-naked "dress" - no stockings, sleeves, low necklines, tichelech half way off their heads, super-tight short skirts & figure-hugging tops...after they get an eyeful of what WE have to see every day, these characters would run back to WB PDQ.

Their women are Tznius. And fashionable. I know, i work there every day.
(5/12/2011 6:38:01 PM)
108
they are nenturei karta
why is everyone looking up to them this time?!the r not satmaer but mishugoyim!
(5/12/2011 6:41:31 PM)
109
Please read:
52-may i respectfully add that most of the women who are not dressed tzniusly are "frum" women.
I think that if they want people to take them seriously they need to bring signed petitions from their wives (not, cv, let them be seen in public!!)
tznius protects eretz yisroel.
I am scared to bring my kids to crown heights for this reason. This is why I moved on shluchos!!
78-i agree with 52 on this point-not everyone is frum....yet. but why should they be if they see so many frum people going off the derech?
but agree with 63-whats not tznuis about the store?
65-ha!
64-your missing the point. that comment was extremely sad indeed (yours)
69-I'll try to explain. A woman's body is kedushadik, if the person uses it in the right way, then it will remain kedushadik. We do not need to dress like arabs. But how is it Kedushdik to walk around without socks and a skirt that ends on the knees? I need not give examples.
70-a woman has a right to do anything. But the "right" to do things should be in the right way.
71-exactly. I am a Shlucha as well, and let me tell you, it's much easier to let your children see not frum, or not jewish people who are wearing pants than to let them see how crown heighters dress. I have been to crown heights recently and it was sad that 1 out of 8 frum people were dressed tznuis.
(5/12/2011 6:44:39 PM)
110
:-)
This was posted just a few hours ago, and already 100 plus comments.

It's too much to read each one, but I got the idea.

Suggestion for Col, why not make a synopsis of the comments. Like facebook does with the "like" button.

When someone comments they can click, like, don't like, don't care.

That is sort of what I gather from this story.

Most people are feeling "nebach," but it's funny.

Other like it (the crazies).

and others are laughing and crying to much to care.
(5/12/2011 6:47:51 PM)
111
#101 is nuts
please respect, please do not desecrate...
how about respect us, who gives you the right to come to our neiborhood and start shouting that we don't respect gedolie yisreal, and that we believe in a false messiah.
(5/12/2011 6:50:09 PM)
112
NK neturei karte
NK STANDS FOR "NOT KOSHER"
So NK"S mind your own ....
(5/12/2011 6:52:56 PM)
113
Yay 107!!!
Well said!!
and so true, unfortunately
Why cant people admit when they're in the wrong??
We ARE wrong and they ARE right
(5/12/2011 6:52:59 PM)
114
...Interesting...
I'm definitely surprised at the reaction of the comments being in favor of this and I'm happy to see that us Lubavitchers are not too arrogant to realize that we got to improve big-time in the area of tznius (as well as education and, in general, making our youngsters appreciate Yiddishkeit to actually fulfill it!).
However, I don't find the manner in which this was done very tznius AT ALL... They should ave leveled it with Iris herself (instead of PROTESTING in front of her store).
Additionally, saying statements about the Rebbe, while their signs say something or other about listening to Rabbonim, is not appropriate in the least! (Rebbe is greater than a rav).
Again, this doesn't mean the signs were wrong but a little sechel... Their signs mentioned Ahavas Yisroel... REAL Ahavas Yisreol in done in a LOVING way, not a screaming way.
So, yes, CH definitely needs some shocker to get us back into sync with the way we should be according to Halacha, and even more so, as being Chassidim of the Rebbe, but please... don't protest untzniusdikly.
(5/12/2011 7:03:48 PM)
115
to #70
learn what tznius is about in haacha. And yes, that's one thing the arabas aren't so bad about. they adhere to laws of mdesty and we can learn from everyone.
(5/12/2011 7:12:41 PM)
116
I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF CROWN HEIGHTS
I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF GREATER NEW YORK TOO. The variety of people, traditions, styles, is awesome. Tolerance should be awesome like this. The fact that our Lubavitchers are living and let live is a testimony to tolerance what the rebbe mhm wanted. But I would love to have a public apology on behalf of the Satmar's fathers and grandfathers for beating up our own back in the early days of Chabad in Brooklyn. If we listen to them now on tznius, let them sit down with one of us and learn Tanya.
(5/12/2011 7:15:10 PM)
117
with all due respect
I am astounded by some of the comments on here.How can you praise the work of people who directly put jewish lives at risk-these people are neturiye karta,they sit and negotiate with ahmedinajad.These people have an agenda so to give them any credit even if they use tzniut to bash crown heights is a travesty.Agree that tzniut is an issue in CH BUT dont give THESE people a voice.No other chasidic group would.
(5/12/2011 7:15:18 PM)
118
They are Right
If what they say is correct and their Rabbanim are against it. Iris should not be there. We should respect their standards and their community.
(5/12/2011 7:16:21 PM)
119
worrying
What i find uncomfortable about some of the comments above is how people are equating a short skirt with all the tragedies of recent times in Chabad.One needs to look a little beyond the hemline....
(5/12/2011 7:18:48 PM)
120
OUR TZNIUS AFFECTS THE LIVES OF YIDDEN IN ERETZ YISROEL
WHEN WE ARE LAX, YIDDEN ARE SLAUGHTERED.
ITS WRITTEN IN THE TORAH
CONQUER YOUR DESIRES AND BE STRONG FOR THEIR SAKE!
(5/12/2011 7:27:11 PM)
121
col ide love for you
to change the headline from chasidim to animals i was there today and they mocked the rebbe and they are a bunch of cowords that shook hands with ahmadinejad yemachshemom so were do you have the chutzpa to call netureh kartuh chasidim correct me if im wrong
(5/12/2011 7:29:27 PM)
122
NETURI KARTA
WHATS THIER PROBLEM ABOUT THE STORE THEY CAN JUST BURN IT LIKE THEY DO EVREY THING ELSE THATS NOT THIER SHITA
(5/12/2011 7:33:29 PM)
123
To # 111
You DO believe in mashiach sheker
(5/12/2011 7:34:23 PM)
124
To 99
The real 'prisoners' are those people (women and men) who sell themselves and their community to immitate whatever they see plastered on the side of a bus.
(5/12/2011 7:38:01 PM)
125
CHILLUL HASHEM!
My cleaning lady came to my house saying how she saw a bunch of people with "long hair by there cheeks" (peyos) screaming with police standing there. Maybe their goal is correct but they should do it in a quieter way. I was so embarased when my cleaning lady told me this that i blushed and just stumbled out of the room. And whats wrong with a spa?! if it gives a busy mother something to look forward to during the week or makes someone feel happy to know they got a stupid manicure for shabbos than who cares?!
(5/12/2011 7:39:51 PM)
126
2 # 37
there is 2 different things Satmar & Neturei Karta, Satmar holds against the state of Israel which also Lubavitch does as we r not zionists & we r against the state bec it says in the 3 oaths not allowed 2 take over & start ur own state, so Satmar doesn't hold like NK, about belonging 2 palestine, its just that NK r more extreme & satmar is not but lubavitch doesn't hold of the state of Israel only the fact 2 protect Yidden. So let NK where the Palestinian thing all he wants is that there shouldn't be a state called Israel. The Friediker Rebbe & the Rebbe Rashab wrote things against having a state its totally asur look in Gemara Kesubos. They r right maybe Ira's main store is in CH so that is why they came here, y don't we stand up 4 Modesty like them . Y do we allow this Garbage in our community " who knows what other Lubavitcher communities look like. This is the world Hdqtrs of Lubavitch. Wearing Tight clothes so the Bachurim will look & stare is totally unacceptable. There r younger Bachurim that learn here is well they have 2 see a lady with a short dress & low neckline. Go 2 Manhattan & dress like a Prutza Vlo Tznuah Vshiktza there don't do it in the Shchuna of the Admor Of Lubavitch. If we believe the Rebbe will take us out of Galus will he take us out with ladies not dressed properly or 4got how an Bachura Tznuah Yiddish girl or lady dresses. Would they walk in front of the Rebbe by dollars with the skirt a few inches above the knee. What do we need all this 4 r we Lubavitch or Modern Orthodox. In the upper west side or Elizabeth NJ is still not OK but its modern orthodox Lubavitch is not modern Orthodox. Williamsburg is no different then Mea Shearim they r the American Meah Shearim & we should learn from them what means Modesty.
(5/12/2011 7:43:28 PM)
127
You people missed the point.
Stop mixing the "CH Tznius Problem" with what these people have a problem with! They simply want the salon in Williamsburg to close down. Whether petitioning is right or wrong, that has NOTHING to do with CH's Tznius standards. It seems like 100 out of 114 comments MISSED THE POINT. The "Tznius Problem" is a completely different story. Sorry ladies, not EVERYTHING is about our Tznius.
(5/12/2011 7:47:36 PM)
128
To # 105
What are they wrong on? Their stance on Zionism? If that is what you think... You are WRONG. The Rebbe IS very clearly against ZIONISM. That is, CHABAD IS AGAINST ZIONISM TOO.
(5/12/2011 7:49:04 PM)
129
#102 Right ON YA
102 is correct
(5/12/2011 7:51:14 PM)
130
i sadly agree with these nuts
just bec they are usually wrong doesent mean they cant be right on THIS
sadly they are
(5/12/2011 7:52:17 PM)
131
On Behalf of the Vaad Hakhoel
One must Stand up for whats right

Please come back again
(5/12/2011 7:55:29 PM)
132
nekura neshmurah
it doesn't matter who or what said it.we have a terrible problem which makes us look like a joke and worse. how does this make our heilike rebbe look? i HATE to say that but that's the truth. for all of you who keep making excuses about how chabad is open,loving etc.don't you remember how untznius women had to put on model coats to go in front of the rebbe by dollars?
(5/12/2011 7:57:06 PM)
133
2 #116
a quote from # 116 I LOVE THE PEOPLE OF GREATER NEW YORK TOO. The variety of people, traditions, styles, is awesome. Tolerance should be awesome like this. The fact that our Lubavitchers are living and let live is a testimony to tolerance what the rebbe mhm wanted. Its funny u say the Rebbe MHM but u say u like the differences & that no1 makes a big deal about it, the styles & everything else do u really think the rebbe would be happy with the style called Purtza. variety yes big variety. Which is totally against everything the Rebbe stands 4. So what r u saying. I heard when it came 2 the carebean parade during elul the Rebbe would turn his face not 2 see all the garbage & how they r dressed. So please. & 2 #34 ladies on shlichus don't have 2 lower their standards of dressing bec they r dealing with non frum ppl fakert longer skirts higher neckline this is how shluchos r supposed 2 dress. No exceptions bec they deal with the fry, wait does that mean we should have mixed seating @ simchas in a chabad house or we go like the Rebbe's shita which is that of the Torah men r with men & ladies with ladies. So no Shluchos don't look different than how a frum lady dresses. Thank u.
(5/12/2011 7:57:12 PM)
134
what is the real issue here
they made absolutely no comment on our tznius.
they came here as a way to put more pressure on iris to close her williamsburg store. all these reactions just show certain lubavitcher insecurities that we look bad in their eyes. i think they understand our standards are different, just like our mivtzoim are different from how they spend their time, and our approach to yiddishkeit is somewhat different too.

its time for lubavitchers to stop being defensive, and stop being aggressive towards our own women and trying to force extra tznius, that was never done before, on our women.
be proud of who we are. we dont have to measure up in their eyes.
(5/12/2011 8:04:11 PM)
135
gimme a break
Why report on these jerks?
(5/12/2011 8:04:30 PM)
136
TO NUMBER 4
To number #4 what the heck do YOU learn from them?? To kiss the arabs feet???? To live to see the destruction of Israel?? ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!! They are nutters..and hypocrites..trust me I saw them visiting the spas "out of the brooklyn area"!!
(5/12/2011 8:07:35 PM)
137
#127
true they r protesting about Wllmsbrg however even though this salon has no connection 2 Tzniut here in Ch, so what the lesson we learn from it is how do we allow these ladies 2 do this & no1 says boo, that is the point & yes everything is related 2 Modesty. Sorry. Its 1 of the biggest things in the Torah. So yes thank u Satmar & only a few of them were NK most of them not but it doesn't matter what they believe, they just don't want it 2 be Israel. Bec not allowed 2 take the Land, but the point that they r bringing out is the best point this lady doesn't care that this should be done on a side street not on the main ave. Yes thank u Satmar thank u u r making crown heights aware of such simple things. Any1 who fought against them they r wrong bec maybe they should have done it in a nicer way however they don't know how or maybe this lady doesn't care about the Torah so she will do whatever she wants. But i would like 2 thank them bec they r standing up 4 the torah & the basics of the Torah is Modesty not dressing like who knows what.
(5/12/2011 8:07:52 PM)
138
Zionism vs Shleimus-haaretz
two very different ideas!

the Rebbeh was equally in disagreement with Zionist-ideology!
(which was anti-theistic at its core)
yet at the same time, the Rebbeh was passionately pro-Eretz-Yisroel's right to defend its safety,
thus not to handover one inch to the enemy!
(5/12/2011 8:12:26 PM)
139
to #36 i defend u too
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R

during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
(5/12/2011 8:14:22 PM)
140
Oy Hashem!
The pain this is causing me for fellow Yidden to stand up against each other!!! Please, be flexible!!
I am deeply saddened by the comment in which they said, "We do not believe in false Messiah!" I, personaly, am not mishichist but I am not against them, let them have their different beliefs! But hearing this almost made me cry-how people from the same nation could say this face to face to another Yid. How someone could be so insensitive to another Yid is greatly saddening me. We all got the Torah, we all accepted it with open hands, we all listened to Moshe, every time in Jewish history, people are helping other Yidden no matter if they knew them or not! In the holocaust, for example, many people gave OTHER people their piece of bread. That is just one of hundreds of thousands of stories and yet here, the exact opposite is happening?!? Dont they/we realize that this is wrong?? COMPLETELY WRONG?!!? Every part of me wished everyone could see this comment-Satmar, Lubavitch, Litvish etc. Please pass this on to other people!!
S.S
Canada
(5/12/2011 8:16:45 PM)
141
sss
k stop being so immature. i can tot understand them!
(5/12/2011 8:18:58 PM)
142
No need to protest
If the WOMEN in Williamsburg really dont want a salon in a store front they will not go. Then it will close down. Which i am sure will not happen.
(5/12/2011 8:18:59 PM)
143
Un-Tznius vs Tznius
They don't want the un-tznius from CH to rub of in Willi.
Can't blame them in the least, summer is coming, the tops get tighter, the skirts shorter, the slits larger, tights are non-existent and nails in all different colors. We can learn from them.
(5/12/2011 8:19:06 PM)
144
to 114
they cant look at her
(5/12/2011 8:19:07 PM)
145
to 135
those Lubavichers who dress prost are unfortunately not proud, for if they were, they would not risk the health & well being of their family (by dressing in a manner that shows low self-dignity or low-self-esteem)

if you are truly proud of being Lubavitch you wont march publicly down the street in a way the Rebbeh begged us NOT to!

Tznius is the ONLY area where the Rebbeh makes numerous promises for those who will adhere to Halacha
& the Rebbeh points to the curses R"L mentioned in Nach re a community which is immodest R"L
(5/12/2011 8:21:12 PM)
146
they are right
(5/12/2011 8:21:54 PM)
147
to #17
WHAT!!!
(5/12/2011 8:23:36 PM)
148
# 138
disagreement, this is not disagreement this is the Torah No Reshonim Achronim or whats brought down in Poskim Yoreh Dayeh that dressing like this is ok, so lets clarify its not disagreeing its stating the truth which is that the way these ladies dress is totally Asur not any of the Reshonim Paskend different so its not disagreeing again its the truth my friend. which really is the comment of # 36 but since # 138 is mentioning it so im commenting on what he said. that he agrees with #
(5/12/2011 8:26:32 PM)
149
to #65
you are wrong -- women SHOULD look beautiful :)
(5/12/2011 8:26:41 PM)
150
i love these freeques
they are paranoid that the Salon will cause willi to slowly become more superficial
(5/12/2011 8:26:54 PM)
151
to #34
I hope you never go on shlichus
(5/12/2011 8:29:12 PM)
152
@144 is this true??
u wrote:
"the Rebbeh points to the curses R"L mentioned in Nach re a community which is immodest R"L

if this were true, why have i never been taught this in 18years of Beis Rivka?
(5/12/2011 8:30:30 PM)
153
to 133
yes, shluchos do dress different-they are more tznuis.
(5/12/2011 8:32:42 PM)
154
no idea
i saw them and had no idea what they were shouting about and some were learning and shouting
(5/12/2011 8:34:06 PM)
155
ATT: 139
u must read post #138 (to get ur answer)

in short

voicing disagreement is NOT sinas chinum!
(5/12/2011 8:34:14 PM)
156
they are right!
According to them all non tznius and pritzus should only be done outside of brookklyn. thats why they are always coming to florida and other places of the like.
(5/12/2011 8:41:05 PM)
157
To#11
Their in front of iriss store
(5/12/2011 8:41:22 PM)
158
thanks
a lot to those people for coming and streanthing essence of yidishkeit i hope they come more offten .


one pat of torah is to be moicheh , machuh ,

like the holy rebbe from munkacher . minchas eluzur says


we need kanoiym
(5/12/2011 8:41:39 PM)
159
whhhhaaat??????????????????
whats wronng with iris's salon????????
(5/12/2011 8:42:22 PM)
160
@152
the Fact that beis Rifka did not teach its students...
is sad

but there IS a reason why our community has the unspeakable spike of Tzaros R"L

at leastaccording to the Rebbe's own words

yes the Rebbeh loves us & thats precisely why he warned us against immodesty!
not bec he is a NK
but bec the curses mentioned in TaNACH
to the Families & community Hashem yishmor!


the moral of the story:
its not private biz how one dress in public
it ChasV endangers the surrounding family & community!
(5/12/2011 8:44:35 PM)
161

You people sound like dead cows and the owner is rigth
(5/12/2011 8:50:07 PM)
162
a different idea
I think it's actually good that Iris opened a salon there. First of all, so that when people are going to a salon, they will be in a Frum place without the magazines, radio, etc.

And second of all- I happen to really enjoy going for a mani Pedi once a month - and learned from my Kallah teacher to do so- it's supposed to be a relaxing pampering day, and what better place to go than a frum salon??
(5/12/2011 8:53:41 PM)
163
clowns
they are ridiculous clowns who shouldn't mind letting there wives feel and look beautiful, there is nothing wrong with a salon being there just because the men dont want it if the women dont then its another story.
(5/12/2011 8:55:01 PM)
164
average
I think col shouldmmake a vote of how many people are for it or against.
I am on their side
(5/12/2011 8:57:18 PM)
165
ladies clothing.
Any store which sells womens under garments for ladies would never exist in Willy or Meah shearim bec that is also something that should be done on the outskirts of the neighbor not on Kingston Ave so that is also something 2 protest about. Such stores weren't there 35 years ago. & they show the garments on display in the window.
(5/12/2011 8:58:46 PM)
166
2 #161
Ok so go ask the Rebbe if its OK. then we shall hear what u have 2 say. the owner is right. "Divrei Harav Divrei Hatlamid divrei mi shomim"
(5/12/2011 9:01:04 PM)
167
what
wat r they doing??
(5/12/2011 9:02:32 PM)
168
They were not respectful...
I have absolutely no problem with them being upset and therefore asking her to close. However, the way that they did it was not respectful. They made huge fools of themselves by screaming and it did absolutely nothing.
(5/12/2011 9:10:19 PM)
169
You guys really don't get it!!
OK, first of all being tznius is not about self respect and dignity. If a woman wants to show off her nice legs, THAT is self respect. Tznius is respecting the other people who do not want to see your exposed body parts.

Also, why is a salon not tznius? Or not chassidish??? Women are supposed to look beautiful and feminine; the Rebbe encouraged it! So what could possibly be wrong with women getting their nails done or their sheitlach styled???

It has absolutely nothing to do with tznius. Don't say it is because they wear red nail polish. Every woman has a choice to make, and she will make that decision regardless of where her nails are done. There is only so much free choice to take away.
(5/12/2011 9:12:44 PM)
170
Anonymous
They should just try controlling their wives, not Iris! Embarrassing someone in public is like murder!
(5/12/2011 9:13:28 PM)
171
Hmmm...
Although I agree that there may be a tznius problem here, and that these people are entitled to their opinions, everyone is overlooking one important issue here: these protestors, along with voicing their distaste of Iris' Salon, were also voicing their distaste of Lubavitch and on our streets no less! Why isn't anyone else upset about this?
(5/12/2011 9:13:52 PM)
172
Does it matter?
There are trillions of salons in New York. No one is walking around with a gun to anyones' head making them go inside (at least I hope not) Tznius is a personal decision. If you're against red nail polish, then don't wear it. But don't start up with a neighboring community, there's enough infighting already.
(5/12/2011 9:22:11 PM)
173
wth!!!!!
if they think its not tznius... then let them not go!!!
such idiots!
(5/12/2011 9:28:56 PM)
174
Oh their so holy.
They are so holy. that one of them is taking a picture on his cel phone, HA
(5/12/2011 9:29:04 PM)
175
be nice
be nice all of us jews are the same to#1 does it really matter to you what they r
(5/12/2011 9:30:41 PM)
176
Stop being ashamed!
Fellow Lubavitchers, there is nothing to be ashamed of and they didn't put down our Tznius. They wanted to stop Iris from opening a salon. Did you know Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka (OUR queen) wore nail polish. She was tznius, upright, an example and royal. There is NOTHING whatsoever wrong with a lady going to a salon to prepare for certain times or to make herself feel better for Shabbos or after watching kids all day. We wear Shaitels and Satmar do not - they think wearing a shaitel is untznius. Well, you know The Rebbe's views on Shaitels and that we must wear them. Please stop saying they are right when that is contradicting your own Rebbe!!! You are making me ashamed. Don't follow a mob instinct and do your own research first please. Bored bochurim and old men - seriously? Why are they not learning and if they don't want their wives to wear a shaitel, then their wives won't. finished.
(5/12/2011 9:32:06 PM)
177
Hellloooo
yes to #19 #25 & #99 did you notice the anti Israel buttons they are wearing?
They are a fringe group who have nothing to do with their lives so they go around protesting places.
I agree the tznius in crown heights can be approved but this was not the Rebe's way and that's not why they came..they came to protest her store in Williamsburg..they don't care about Crown Heights.
(5/12/2011 9:38:56 PM)
178
Why they came
They came to crown heights to see the high class women hook-- fashion show on kingston ave
(5/12/2011 9:39:55 PM)
179
LETS LEARN FROM THIS
THOUGH THEIR APPROACH IS HARSH, WE CAN ALL TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO IMPROVE IN TZNIUS. ALL OF US. IYH THIS WILL STOP THE TZAROS THAT HAVE BEFALLEN US DUE TO OUR LACK OF IT.
(5/12/2011 9:42:31 PM)
180
The store does not belong in Williamsburg.
She could open in CH. But why go into their neighbohood and shake things up? We want them to respect Chabad, Chabad should respect them.
(5/12/2011 9:43:52 PM)
181
THIS is completeley ridiculous!
what is wrong with our world! guess what? Iris can do whatever she wants and no one can stop her
(5/12/2011 9:44:05 PM)
182
they r niturei karta NOT satmer
they are neturei karta! not satmer! this ppl meet with all the crazy terrossits against the jews cuz they get paid for it. yes maybe it iris did not have to open a store there but the menchlich way to ask her to close her store is by asking her nicely to. this is not a method of ahavas yisroel by screaming and shouting like idiots! this nituri karta make the biggest chilull hashem!!! rabbonim should set a standerd in ch for way of dress!!
(5/12/2011 9:45:23 PM)
183
crown heights resident
these meshugoyim are 100% right!

love them hate them, on this i agree with them!
(5/12/2011 9:56:09 PM)
184
2 # 181
if Iris wanted 2 open up a swimsuit shop on Bedford Ave & she has the $$$$ do u think that that will happen ? If she tried it she could get killed by the whole williamsburg
(5/12/2011 10:01:53 PM)
185
whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat???
y are all you ppl so makpid on tznius!!!!??????omg this whole tznius thing is crazy why dou you care how long my sleeves are???????just chill and dont care what ppl think about how u look like your a ............wtvr cmmon guys!!!!!!!
(5/12/2011 10:06:04 PM)
186
Who cares?
Who cares about the poor Jew who will be lossing a chance to employee more people and make more tzedaka gelt?

Who cares that these guys don't own Williamsburg and have no right to dictate who opens a store there?

Who cares that people in WB will protest against this store but not against perverts in their community who are protected by the so called Vaad Hatznuiss? Who cares?

I do because I am a Jew and despite the above I have to love them, so I care.
(5/12/2011 10:07:56 PM)
187
valid argument
we would not appreciate a block buster opening up on kingston ave (hopefully)!
(5/12/2011 10:19:12 PM)
188
chutzpah
a lubavitcher with a israeli flag??? thats a patch im ponim to lubavith and...
(5/12/2011 10:23:00 PM)
189
:-)
I don't know this woman, and what she does in her personal life is her business (its a cheap shop attacking her tznius level).

Her having a nail and beauty salon in no way "desecrates" the community.

What the heck is wrong with it? Make an honest case, don't through useless words around.

It's amazing how many people are taking out their anger on this poor woman. You have an issue with Tznius in CH, and the crazy people blame it on something unrelated, and you are so keen to join them. Chutzpe.

Okay, the community modernized over the years, but it's also a lot better.

I grew up in CH, we never had so many Shuls, with Torah learning...on a high level. This is new. So perhaps there are other things that do need working on, but that would the individual's responsibly.

Don't become a NK. They are reshuim. Again, NK are reshuim, and I have Torah sources to prove it. They are conspiring with goyim to kill yiden, the gemara says, we need to kill them. But due to the circumstances we wont. But just think about it, people who are chaiv misa are coming into CH?

And even if you agree (which is so supid because all the above comments are on tznius, and not the store) go about it in a different fashion.

Obviously, this will bring much mazal and bracha to this fine store.


All you pro NK people really need to evaluate you opinion. What is wrong? Why can't we have it on Kingston? It's done in a wholesome, appropriate fashion.

On a separate note, being that it is totally appropriate, why not support the community--since people are going to go outside for such services.

These people obviously have no life--demonstrating in the afternoon.

If they do come back I would assemble loud speakers and play them something they would not enjoy. Not for nikama (okay maybe a little), but because they are hurting this person's store.

Tell these amai haaretz to learn a gemara (these services are mentioned several times--as a good and normal thing). In addition, us Jews have been using such services since yetzias mitzraim, through bayis rishon etc. So on a Jewish level--they have no case.

But thats besides the point, even if you do not enjoy that place, be mentchlach. Don't fall to these peoples level.

The horrible comments above are shocking. This woman is not responsible for the tznius level in CH. Each person has their oen life to run, with help from their chosen friends, mashpiim, etc.

Incidentally, the store in Williamsburg is only open because people attend.

Woman do partake in these MUTAR services, so why not receive them from a frum Jew?

Again, loud speaker...blast anything that's louder than them. I don't care, even Shwekey (yes sfira, but the heter is to save the parnasa of a family).

You guys in CH have the advantage of an electrical outlet :-)))





(5/12/2011 10:24:26 PM)
190
:-)
#179

I want to tell you to go somewhere, however COL wont publish my words if I do.
(5/12/2011 10:27:38 PM)
191
to #99 Get to know your subject
I live in Crown Heights but worked with a large crowd of Satmar women in Manhattan for several years, and I also worked in Williamsburg for two years: I can say from first hand knowledge that, in general, the satmar women are some of the strongest and most confident women you'll find anywhere and they know how to have a great time too! As for taking care of themselves, I still go to the same beauty/skin care salon that my satmar coworkers went to because it's the best. It sounds like you have some issues that are blinding you to the facts.
(5/12/2011 10:29:48 PM)
192
As a guy here
I always get pedicures but i go to Church ave off Ocean Parkway and the asian girls are great!!!! I even have Semicha!!!!!
(5/12/2011 10:30:08 PM)
193
shloime freundlich
Does no one understand these folk think of women as chattel ,your cow or goat does not need a manicure so why your "dos"
(5/12/2011 10:38:49 PM)
194
Why are we so darn intimidated by 'liberals'?
It doesn't matter WHO the demonstrators were. The point is that unlike our very, very timid community, they are not afraid to stand up to make a point that is important to them. At what point did we become so nispoel of the intolerant 'liberals' that moved in to the neighborhood and have the presumption to decide how we should live and dress? We see who they are tolerant of. Where is all our courage? We should be proud of who we are and show it. Proud that we choose to dress according to our Torah's 'value system'. So what if some rude people who nebich haven't learned their manners, sneer or talk about us. Just smile, and wish them a nice day!
(5/12/2011 10:42:48 PM)
195
2 # 185
tell the Rebbe 2 chill who cares how long your sleeves r who cares how long your skirt is ? Go walk in2 Yichidus with a skirt that when u sit down it comes above your knees. Really come on get real this sounds like 1 of those modern ladies who is trying 2 Modern the Torah. & 2 #189 excuse me, there is no need 2 have it right on the main street of Crown Heights like what mentioned b4 in comment #184 if she wanted 2 open a swimsuit shop u would also say its ok well guess what there is a sort of swimsuit shop 4 ladies on kingston & the swimsuit r hanging in the window. & yes that is also not ok, & every 1 is saying it is NK not Satmar well let me tell u this again like #184 she could get stoned by the whole williamsburg & yes Satmar would back them up if this lady ever tried 2 do that. So all these comments about what they did isn't ok its bec u don't like 2 hear that Tzinus is the 1st thing in the Torah look @ Dor HaMabul they were destroyed bec of their lack of tznius the things they did, so if u honestly don't think that it brings great things 2 the NeighborHOOD so then keep on dressing in those scantly clothing that u wear in Willmbrg, u would never see the ladies dress the way they do in CH so please. Lubavitch 4got what modesty is. Wake UP ladies & start learning how 2 dress like frum ladies should not the way they dress in Time Square. Thank u.
(5/12/2011 10:44:19 PM)
196
TO ALL THAT SAID THE SALON DOESNT BELONG IN WILLIAMSBURG
Iris opened a branch there because of the OVERWHELMING amount of requests she got from her Williamsburg customers.
(5/12/2011 10:47:42 PM)
197
They never said you can't go to a salon
Why are so many people saying 'but there's nothing wrong with going to a salon'? Williamsburg women have always gone to salons and that is obviously NOT their issue. It is an issue of doing things in a more private way which is the way of the Torah although some have lost sight of the benefits and true beauty of discretion and privacy.
(5/12/2011 10:53:06 PM)
198
TIME TO TAKE A LESSON
OK ,IRIS, YOU HAVEW TO DRESS TZNIUSDIK IN WILLIAMSBERG. THAT'S NOT SO BAD. THE GIRLS WORKING FOR YOUY ALSO SHOULD DRESS ACCORDING TO HALACHA, EVEN IF THEY ARE NOT JEWISH. MANY OF US ARE ALSO UPSET, BUT WE DON'T SAY ANYTHING. THIS SHOULD BE A WAKING UP CALL TO ALL WHO LOOK LIKE.... THEY REALLY SHOULD DRESS UP AND LOOK REGAL NOT DRESS DOWN AND LOOK .....
(5/12/2011 10:56:28 PM)
199
The goup will travel to your neighbarhood too!!
They are available for booking all next month and will perform for your amusment
for booking information please contact the agent at crazyjewsrus@wernuts.com
they will do weddings, bar mitzvas, graduations, and corporate events
(5/12/2011 10:56:39 PM)
200
Know the story before forming opinions:
I've used Iris (to cut my hair) for 6 years, and having very high tznius standards myself, I have to say I was extremely impressed:

Iris is very, very respectful of people's standards, and dedicated to Tznius.

She opened a salon in Williamsburg since many people asked her to, and when she was terrorized there and demanded to leave, she agreed, as long as she be compensated the HUGE expense that went into the investment.

She's NOT trying to bring a "modern" look to the streets of Williamsburg!!
(5/12/2011 10:56:58 PM)
201
whats with the wailing??
why cant they just stand there with their signs?

instead they have to start acting like a bunch of crazy fanatics and no one will listen or respect what they have to say??
(5/12/2011 10:59:18 PM)
202
if the hat fits wear it...
obviously , there is going to some debate on the merits or cons of this whole episode, but without a doubt , there is a very clear message that can be learned, that some times you need to be hit over the head to see the trees from the forest.
That's what is meant by Haschaga protis.
(5/12/2011 10:59:50 PM)
203
Att: 197
They might want to have women do things in a way of Torah,
but they don't care to do things that way themselves.

Vandalizing someone's store? [they did that to the Williamsburg branch]
Blackmailing?
Hurling abusive insults?
Ruining someone financially?

Since when is that the way of Torah??
(5/12/2011 11:00:51 PM)
204
To#185
I don't care about your Tznius but I must say you're writing is worse than anything I've seen in a long time. May I suggest a course in basic spelling and grammar? And a psychologist to help you clear your head? (You sound confused and disjointed). Maybe when your basic skills are polished you will have some self respect and that will reflect in you communication skills and your clothes too. Best of luck.
(5/12/2011 11:01:18 PM)
205
:-)
197

Its a wholesome tznius salon.

And please, everybody stop acknowledge that they are right for being forward about the tznius issue. This issue isn't about tznius--so yes....chill out
(5/12/2011 11:04:13 PM)
206
#199
Quick!

Get them for the Great Parade!!
(5/12/2011 11:05:11 PM)
207
TO COL:
PLEASE install a "LIKE" button to get the highest rated comments to the top of the page, i dont have time to read all of them.

thank you
(5/12/2011 11:06:24 PM)
208
To 187
So move to Williamsburg!

Apparently they agree that a salon compares to blockbuster, since their issue is with it being on "Kingston".
(5/12/2011 11:07:17 PM)
209
tell all those satmar men to get off this website and stop pretendig they are writing as Lubavitchers
what does a beauty salon have to do with tznius? its just allowing woman to take care of themselves.
these men have turned yiddishkeit into a circus
I think those men standing in the street like that is bitul torah and more untznius.
(5/12/2011 11:07:45 PM)
210
TO EVERYBODY
who the heck really cares??
They wanna stand there like that....just walk passed them...they want their wives to look ugly and not well taken care of...our pleasure. Whats the whole fuss for?
It is ridiculous how everybody takes one story of a beauty salon and blames CHers dress and tznius. we're not perfect and we know that...just focus focus focus.....
and realize that we're all wasting our time on this stupid chat thing
(5/12/2011 11:22:34 PM)
211
Opening a beauty salon on Lee avenue?
I'm sure the intentions were good and it's possible that she didn't realize the implications. But to those of the above commenters who are so upset about the protest: any savvy business person assesses the dynamics of a neighborhood and it's values before making their investment. There is nothing wrong or close-minded with respecting the way people live in an area to which you are a newcomer. Choosing a more discrete place like an apartment or walk-in on one of the many residential streets would have been perfectly acceptable to everyone (and, of course, making sure to dress in a way that respects the community just makes business sense. )
(5/12/2011 11:27:52 PM)
212
What really is Tznius?
The word Tznius means "Hidden." Unfortunately for many people in CH being lubavitch is just a social club and few are erlich these days, everybody has Internet in their house but chas shalom teddy bear for their children. Does that really make sense? Of course not! CH is more lubavitch than Jewish. There is nothing that you can do to fix the problem(s). The only answer is to move out of CH.
(5/12/2011 11:33:28 PM)
213
LA Morah
to my dear sister lubavitchers who write that "perhaps" or "maybe" we have a tznneus problem,wake up! you've got to admit there's a problem before you can begin to solve it.
(5/12/2011 11:35:32 PM)
214
ENTERTAINING
PEACEFUL! THANK G-D! COULD THIS MATTER HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF IN PRIVATE? IS IT NECCESARY TO EMBARRASS A FELLOW JEW IN PUBLIC! LET'S ALL BE TZNUIS!
(5/12/2011 11:36:27 PM)
215
To # 184 and 195
I'm sorry, did you say KILLED? STONED? And you are calling this a Tznius issue? It would seem that the potential violence is far bigger issue than a woman opening a salon in a neighborhood. I grew up neither Satmer nor Lubabavitch, but it seems like both sides need to get some perspective. Like it or not, this is still America we live in and this woman has the right to open whatever business she pleases, wherever she pleases, free of harrassement and possible threats. Likewise, these men have a right to PEACEFULLY protest, granted by our constitution. Once you start talking about stoning people, you are dealing with a whole other issue entirely. This is America, guys, not Bnei Brak or some place where that kind of behavior is tolerated. Be careful before someone gets hurt or arrested.

Also, to those who are blaming whatever tragedies may have befallen your community (and I have no idea what tragedies they are, but they must be serious to provoke this kind of reaction) on the way the women are dressing: WHAT ON EARTH ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? An argument like that makes God appear unreasonable, arbitrary and completely unapproachable. Grow up and realize that sometimes bad things happen. Pray they dont happen again, do some soul searching to improve your OWN lifestyle, and stop casting blame on entire groups of people. Especially on a public forum. Are you aware that I found this link on Facebook, which makes it pretty much available to anyone out there. Is this really the way you want to portray yourselves and your community? This is precisely the reason I and so many others left the Jewish community. I promise, one less nail salon would not have made a difference in my decision
(5/12/2011 11:44:58 PM)
216
Its a shame
Who owns the streets of Williamsburg?
Who owns the streets of Crown Heights?
The Rebbe said that all Jews are holy.
I believe that everyone faces their creator in their own way in their own time
I imagine even those Jews in flip flops with red toe nails
I imagine even they are deserving of G-ds love and certainly the Rebbe's...so they may be a little lost along the way...One thing is for certain they won't get lost in Williamsburg...not likely...the level of Tzniius there is very high and obviously patrolled fervently by the men who live there.
Why is there so much hate and anger and condemnation...are we not vessels of light?
Through example we can shine like the Daughters of Israel that we are...royalty inside and out..but what I am hearing here are accusations - one Jew against another - over and over again - its a shame.
(5/12/2011 11:45:20 PM)
217
please help
can't anyone feel their suffering? they are in fact yidden whose version of tznius and all that means to them is a version where they feel totally hurt and scared in the matter as to the implications and preconditions involved here. This is not a left vs. right, or an 'our' community vs. 'theirs,' or us and them or 'radicals' vs. 'normies' thing... rather, this is a group of people willing to take their concern public and there are likely others there and here and elsewhere with similar views and at the end of the day storefronts are generally not responsible when it comes to what is visible, including the image or sense of the establishment that is visible portrayed. Even the typographic font or logo or colors that are used on a sign conveys a message. rows of foam heads with long hair conveys a message too, so do written descriptions of services rendered. this is really the fact of the matter - now you want to say it doesn't matter or whats the big deal or anyone who has anything to say otherwise is a radical, really this is all counterproductive. there is absolutely nothing wrong with iris store and others being behind a door with no street signage. there really is nothing wrong with that and yes they can do whatever they want, yes they can do that too - but you know when i say not responsible, I mean usualy the interest in display windows is to in one form or another generate sales and there generally is a disconnect when it comes to being responsible for say upholding something, or not revealing something. but the fact is that these types of goods and services are highly word-of-mouth and therefore the only customers that will never find out about a 'hidden' store are customers who really have no close friends making recommendations, etc. otherwise known as transient community members. so if a store wants to prop-up sales with spontaneuos buying, etc. and catering to the development of and empowering certain social trends and buying habits than the question is: what is the store being responsible for? and so the real question is should they feel responsible for anything other than what they have been responsible for? and what does it take to move their eye from one area to another in terms of what they've been responsible for to what they could also be responsible for and what opportunities could then be leveraged into even greater outcomes (whcih abslutely include sales too) and then so the question is what resources do they have to support their efforts in managing the existence of what they could be now willing to be responsible for other than what they've been responsible for. so signage, etc. are great support structures for the fulfillment of sales and the question is what support structures can be put in place (all over the place) to support other intentions being fulfilled, like not hurting peoples feelings and would someone who did not so much think of that, what would it take for them to be willing to think of that, or think of that in a new light, especially as a result of todays demonstration. becasue really, who i am is that it is in fact possible to have something awesome and great come from this besides people being right about who's a sinner and who's a radical and all the other versions of that same essential message: fighting for it, defending it, pointing fingers over it, etc., etc., etc. - and really everyone has a point, but the greater question is: who is willing to enlarge what thay have been previously responsible for to include what formerly only others were responsible for. and really a store owner does have a great responsibility say first and foremost to a community- to who else? and the community voice is not on the internet, and not at a voting both, nor in the ears of each side of the 'argument' but really the community is in the heart of the community, in the hearts of yidden, so we're talking baout heartfelt intentions - whether the intention is to open a business, or live somewhere, or hold somewhere, or work on something, or build something, or create something... like create something like the fabric of a community is actually created phenomenon and it goes in the direction of the participation of the players in the game called who makes up a community, and what they're creating, intentionally or accidentally- and that includes who has a store, and that includes what they are selling and how and where they are selling it and that also includes how people feel about things, like just these very things. i think everyone should really get more interested in what we're all building together, like we're actually building something together and relying on stereotypes to get us of the hook from really dealing with ourselves like oh that just that group, or ha ha two jews three opinions, really is like a bad joke. we have work to do, we all do, and we all need to work very hard each day on the hardest fronteir - ourselves. machers and demonstrators alike. what should the demonstrators say - sorry yea we are too scared and we care too much and we need to figure out a better why to express our feelings? or shoud iris say yea you know what as a result of today, we are changing our storefronts and display windows to be nondescript and hidden in honoring of the core values or some of the most sensitive souls in all the communities we operate, we ask for your forgiveness and please continute to support our business and provide feedback how we can better serve you - really i think that would guarantee more business and not that, but stronger community. i really do - if that was the heartfelt response of iris i think she could be a big baylas tzedekas - and the demonstrators - who would care ifthe demonstrators sent a message or regret- the people that hold a view of them against them would just smirk and feel like winners and who cares about that - that would make no difference. really the demonstrators should be allowed to win this point not because a store cant do whatever it wants, this is america, etc. but because yidden are sensitive to each other and that is the essense of this - the protestors being wrong makes no difference - the macher being wrong makes a difference. the macher can be wrong like b'shogeig - you know - like things happen, one day you're not sensitive to something and the next day Boruch hasehm you are. They can change but- her makes a real difference, the demonstrators changing makes no difference. and I'm not against her - I don't know who she is or her store, I'm just hearing the demonstrators - they're crying for a difference to be made. What would Moshe do? tell them to shut up, or ask the macher to be better at what they do. The child is screaming, theres the teacher and the principal talks to the teacher, because the teacher has a greater responsibility, if the child is screaming it's on the teacher and therefore the principal is going to work on the teacher. Iris, please help us all be stonger.
(5/12/2011 11:47:13 PM)
218
to #203
This is not about the demonstrators and what they have or have not done. WE want to do the things the Torah way. And the Torah way is refined and modest. THAT is the issue. Someone else's alleged wrong doing would not justify or cancel out a problem we have in our community.
(5/12/2011 11:51:54 PM)
219
I don't think there is anything wrong...BUT...
I don't think Iris did anything wrong by trying to innocently open up a store in williamsburg...BUT if they asked her to PLEASE not do that due to their values and their standards...She should respect that! and im sure she will! :)
(5/12/2011 11:53:33 PM)
220
Gombos Protest
Lets send 15 Lubavitchers to protest on Lee Ave against Gombos. How could he open such a delicious hamishe bakery here? Mailia for erev Shabbos, but he's open everyday pumping all these tivas into our community. This goes completely against what chassidus says about hiscafia/ain od milvado and gives us a big test to withstand each day. Why does he need to be the FIRST. This is against our standards. :)
(5/12/2011 11:53:56 PM)
221
to 176
If Tznius in Crown Heights was impeccable and the only issue they had with us was nail polish and sheitlach, they wouldn't be on our streets protesting. The reality is, there is a significant amount of Crown Heights woman (mostly young) and girls, who take their fashion cues from Shiksas who model in goyishe magazines. Being that we are Williamsburg's next door neighbor, they don't want us to influence their daughters.

I'm a proud Lubavitcher, and proud of the majority of CH which dresses tznius, thus showing respect and regard to their community. Yet I'm ashamed of the minority who disrespect the Rebbe's shchunah.

I'm not perfect myself, but the flagrant abuse of tznius times 1,000, makes me very uncomfortable. I suspect the Rebbe too.
(5/13/2011 12:08:31 AM)
222
the cops
i can't even imagine what they must have been thinking
(5/13/2011 12:25:46 AM)
223
ch resident
these guys are 1000% right on this
(5/13/2011 1:00:18 AM)
224
the are wrong on everything els!
sadly i agree with them re where our standards are going (step by step) RL
(5/13/2011 1:01:29 AM)
225
the REBBE warned & BEGGED
before yall get all deffensive... lets remember that huge damage is done behind the scens when the public standards are lowered!
bec human nature considers lower Aveiros in private when the collective lowers its adherence to halacha

which in turn results in the blatant escelation of tragedies predicted by our Prophets (& warned by our Rebbe)
(5/13/2011 1:02:55 AM)
226
Wow!
Do you realize how many of us recognize that we have a serious challenge??? So take all those wonderful well-said comments & let's DO something about it! Let's change our rep (and image - literally) so that we can be a proper example of how a Tzniusdik and beautiful (yes - I mean that literally) Chassidic community should look like. Take the precious CROWN that we Lubavitchers possess, and stop shlepping it through the gutters...just put it back on the head and wear it proud!
(5/13/2011 1:04:50 AM)
227
POEL MAMASH
THERE HAS TO BE A UNITED CALL ON PAPER IN REGARDS TO TZNIUS.
LET IT CLARIFY THE HALACHA AND WHAT IS EXPECTED OF US CHASSIDIM HOW TO BEHAVE IN THE STREETS.

EVERY ROV, AND EVERY MECHANECH, EVERYONE IMPORTAND, SHLUCHIM, ETC. SHOULD SIGN PROUDLY ON THIS PAPER. LET OUR KIDS AND FRIENDS KNOW HOW WE EXPECT TO SEE THEM IN THE STREETS. LET THEM KNOW THAT WE CAN'T TOLERATE THIS ANYMORE.

MANY MORE SHOULD JOIN THIS TZNIUS CAMPAIGN.
WE HAVE GONE SO FAR... THAT SOME OF US HAVEN'T REALIZED, THAT THERE'S SOMETHING WRONG..
AND THEN THEY SEE THE FRIEND WEARING SOMETHING.. AND WOULD LIKE TO GET THE SAME CLOTHE WITHOUT EVEN REALIZING, AND THE TREND JUST CONTINUES...

DEAR BROTHERS AND SISTERS!
WE HAVE TO CHANGE! FOR US, FOR OUR CHILDREN, FOR LUBAVITCH, FOR THE REBBE..

AND YES.. THE REBBE EXPECTS OF US THE HIGHEST LEVELS OF TZNIUS, YES THE TOP!

LOOK HOW THE REBBE IN IGROS PRAISES SOME MINHAGIM OF TZNIUS THAT THEY DO IN COMMUNITIES LIKE WILLIAMSBURG..
ANYHTHING IN THIS REGARDS SHOULD ONLY BE PRAISED AND ENCOURAGED.

(5/13/2011 1:13:10 AM)
228

-FIRST AND FOREMOST WE HAVE TO BE GOOD EXTERNALLY (CHITZOINUS) AND ONLY THEN WE CAN INTERNALIZE (PNIMIYUS)-

the first step is KABOLAS OL,
we accept halacha and our 'masores' the most important, and we act accordingly.. and especially in the streets..

so one may say 'well i know very well who i am!' and I'm not the greatest Tzadik, so who am I to comment about this! is my head Tzniusdik?? better just keep quiet i maybe worse than the people dressed that way, etc. etc......
and others would take it a step further and say 'so if i'm anyway not so 'Holy' then my dress also doesn't have to holy..

The obvious answer is: that this is no excuse!
and IT AIN'T MATTER WHAT'S HAPPENING IN YOUR BRAIN, or IN YOUR HOUSE, IN YOUR ROOM!!
just doesn't matter!
WHAT DOES MATTER? WHAT IS IMPORTANT?

IT'S IMPORTANT the way you ACT OUTSIDE, the way YOU ACT ON THE STREETS!!
THAT REALLY MATTERS!!!!!!!!!

and that comes FIRST AND FOREMOST !!
(5/13/2011 1:30:07 AM)
229
To 204
I don't care much about writing skills, but it hurt me to read a comment so harshly hurled at someone, attacking them so deeply.
(5/13/2011 1:38:56 AM)
230
well well
I WOULD HAVE PRANCED RIGHT IN FRONT OF THEM IN MY MINI SKIRT

SORRY BUT U HEARD THAT RIGHT!
(5/13/2011 1:41:08 AM)
231
#26
We did have a group of Lubavitchers last year who did protest the depravity and level of Tznius here in Crown Heights, but these people were shot down scoffed at in the most humiliating way. All of the signs that they are holding is unfortunately true, we Lubavitchers, do not have any respect for anyone besides ourselves. I wish the Stmarers success in their endeavours, and perhaps we should have the decency to say openly that we have a lot to learn from other YIdden.
(5/13/2011 1:46:42 AM)
232
To 218
This is 203 here.

Since when is the issue not about the demonstrators?

I fail to understand the point of the article, if it wasn't that demonstrators (who have already been harassing Iris in Williamsburg) came all the way to CH to further harass and publicly vent (about issues that have nothing to do with Crown Heights.)

Yes, it's true we want things done the Torah way, but that was not the article's point.

(It's true the discussion took a turn, but I fail to see how commenters connected that to the article.)

Who's alleged wrong doing has what do do with our community? I'm confused; I don't understand.

My comment was in response to someone who said that the issue [the demonstrators had] is not that a salon was opened, but that it wasn't done in private, in a Torah way.

That was exactly my point; that one alleged wrong doing does not justify another.
(5/13/2011 1:47:11 AM)
233
COL and tznius
btw, tznius also applies to today's new leaders in Lubavitch.

IN FACT today's MAHSPI'IM and RABONIM that lead us, are COL etc...... (sadly.. but truly)

they should be extra careful,every article, every pic, every link,

THEY HAVE A MAJOR RESPONSIBILITY!
for us, for our kindelach, for the Rebbe, for Moshiach,
(5/13/2011 1:51:57 AM)
234
Att: 219
To brief you on the facts.

No one ever asked Iris to PLEASE move out.

One day soon after she opened, her workers phoned her hysterically, that an angry mob had gathered outside, throwing rocks at her storefront. The frightened girls ran into the bathroom, locked themselves in, and frantically called her and the police.

And then started the phone calls... Calling her Osama Bin Laden, and demanding that she leave... threatening her...

Yes, all they had to do was kindly ask her to leave.

And reimburse her for the huge expense she put into opening the salon, if they felt it wasn't as per their standards.
(5/13/2011 1:52:11 AM)
235
To 221
Um, their protest had NOTHING to do with Crown Heights standards. They were protesting her opening a salon in Williamsburg, which, unlike the rest, are not in dingy basements. That's all.
Nothing to do with Crown Heights standards.

It hurts me to hear people being bad-mouthed.
If something pains us, please, let's do something in our power to fix it. Disparaging someone never did.

[Emor Me'at v'aseh Harbeh...
Divrei Chachomim B'nachas Nishmoin]
(5/13/2011 2:00:26 AM)
236
is this journalism??
i think the author's view came across way too strongly for a news report! if this is an opinion piece, call it an op-ed; don't write a piece with such obvious hatred and contempt and hide behind the innocent "news" article that people are expecting to read.
(5/13/2011 2:05:34 AM)
237
2 # 215
Its not Bnei Brak, u mean Meah Shearim or Batei Ungarin which is also Hungarian & the same thing as Satmar. Satmar does live in Meah Sharim, there is a shul on Rechov Yoel. & Rechov Meah Shearim.
(5/13/2011 2:28:37 AM)
238
to #217
how can you expect anyone to read that? i feel dizzy just looking at it.

its a shame that you spent so much time typing your thoughts but didn't take the time to space it out and chop it into paragraphs
(5/13/2011 2:29:15 AM)
239
getting better at Tznius
first basic tznius,
-below the knee
-below the elbows
-cover the neckline
-no bare legs
-outside always with sheitel


now, what if i'm already doing so, i can still enhance my tznius,
if i wore socks up until now, i will now begin to wear tights..
or
from now on i"ll stop wearing my jeans!

i will wear more honorable clothes - more Royal!

i won't shout out or greet someone loud in the street!

next time i buy something, a car, a house, furniture, let it be something which is more tzniusdik. modest.. (doesn't have to shout out! unnoticed).

i will talk nicer to my friends, with more dignity, more respect,

i'll think more tzniusdik
we can always get better at tznius,
it's a daily topic, thru our lifespan.


but the basic level just has to be! regardless!
and at the very least - outside!
out there we gotta be dressed appropiately!
(5/13/2011 2:33:26 AM)
240
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
THEYRE REALLY FUNNY!
(5/13/2011 2:36:34 AM)
241
FACT
To 176;
Rebbetzin Chaya Mushka never, but never, wore RED/MAROON/DARK PINK or even PINK nail polish; There is nail polish and nail polish; This is a FACT, and well do you know it
(5/13/2011 2:39:01 AM)
242
it says on his pin..
..NK!!!!they r neturai karta
(5/13/2011 2:53:22 AM)
243
lol
hahahahahahaae
(5/13/2011 3:23:40 AM)
244
Chassidim?
They are Netura Karta nothing more, nothing less.

May Hahem have Mercy on these jews, and show them the true Derech
(5/13/2011 3:24:11 AM)
245
HAHAHAHAHAHHA
SO FUNNY!

Better stop ladies from buying there, then Iris will have no reason to stay open....

These busy bodies should take a little economics class, it would take them a long way...

Could it be... that maybe they came to us because they are bored, have nothing to do and wanted some attention?

Maybe they wanted to be on COL...?

But hey, who doesn't?

DN
(5/13/2011 3:35:29 AM)
246
to all NK supporters
The above comments giving neturei karta legitimacy is Shocking!!i have just read a blog my a british muslim who went to a pro israel protest and he talks about how the NK were so brave to come to their side and fight for their cause.Are you aware what the NK say about chabad? they tell the muslims that lubavitch people are not real jews .PEOPLE get real these people are a real threat to world jewry and you are legitimising them coming to CH and telling YOU are not tznius!!does nobody see the irony here?
Just imagine how the rebbe would have reacted to these people actions.I feel saddened and deeply concerned about the comments above saying that NK must be right because they are so strong in tznius. Where is lubavitch going???????
(5/13/2011 4:00:14 AM)
247
Reaction
Gosh! What an unbelievable reaction to this story! like never before!! Looks like it touched a very sensitive nerve in CH, more like, exploded a very sensitive topic in CH that affects too many of us today;
It would appear that many many many of us are deeply touched and affected by the whole ongoing sad saga that is raging in CH; Surely the fact that soooooooooo many reacted the way they did, signifys something huge; Maybe, finally, its time, we opened our eyes and saw things for what they really are, i.e. a total and blatant loss of Tznius in every single sense of the word . . . in the very Rebbes Shchuna;
No one with any sensitivity or honesty can possibly deny that at this point;
The proof is screaming out at us from this unbelievable reaction on the part of so many, on COL; Pause for thought????
(5/13/2011 4:36:08 AM)
248
Just curious
Do they Need a permit for public assembly
I wonder why our overzealous police did not see this as obstructing pedestrian movement
(5/13/2011 5:44:52 AM)
249
The Rebbe WOULD HAVE AGREED with Satmar
Read what the Rebbe wrote in 216. And judge by yourself if Lubavitch is acting according toi the Rebbe's standard of Tznius.

The Gemara relates that Rav Ada bar Ahava was once walking in the market when he noticed a woman wearing a red cloak. Thinking that she was a Yiddishe woman who was acting untzniusdik, Rav Ada immediately tore the cloak off of her. He later found out that she was a goyishe woman and was therefore obligated to pay her four hundred zuz for what he had done. The Rebbe derives from this the importance of acting immediately to protect the tznius of Yidden. See in 59. So, YES, Satmar are right THIS TIME. And it's shameful that we NEVER see any Lubavitcher protesting the poor situation in CH. There are plenty of Lubavitch communities around the world with very high standards in Tznius, but why not applying them in Ch as well?!
(5/13/2011 7:39:52 AM)
250
many problems ppl have may b...
may be resultant from the Pritzus RL,

ppl dont realize that when torah says somthing brings curses to ones surroundings it MUST be taken seriously!

these negative consequences of immodesty is foretold in Nach
they are Not my own observation!

everyone is asking why the sudden increase in craizy fatal deaths all arround us??

maybe the Rebbeh was right for urging us to head the laws of Tznius which = Blessings & Protections etc
(5/13/2011 7:50:04 AM)
251
The store should influence
There are many non-Jewish salons in Crown Heights. A Jewish store can provide tznius ways of doing nails, etc and while trying to influence these girls and women to be more tznius.
(5/13/2011 7:57:29 AM)
252

to all those concerned the fact that we are getting excited about our tznius - just bec a few people (and some NK) made a commotion..

the reality is that it doesn't make a difference why and bec of whom we are encouraging and enhancing Tznius.
Tznius is correct and has to be fixed, and any positive input in this direction should be encouraged, always!

, ' -
'accept the truth from the one who said it' -even if comng from not desireable sources..
(5/13/2011 9:19:34 AM)
253
TZNIUS comes b4 CHITAS
a girl should know priorities!

before davening, learning chitas, sefer hamitzvos, etc, the first priority is tznius!

and tznius means many things.. but the first simple notion of tznius means dressing according to halacha and even more so - dressing like a Chossid!

(5/13/2011 9:40:13 AM)
254
Dress & Skirt Length
In response to the question that many have asked me about the proper length of dresses:

My opinion is known that the proper length that applies equally to all Jewish daughters and in all places is that the [length of the garment be such that the] knees be covered even while sitting.

As already stated, that which I mentioned above is the minimum amount that applies equally to all.

However, since there are places where this minimum amount is insufficient for with regard to matters of tznius and the like, in addition to the fact that there are observances of tznius in different places that are not to be changed, there are also details that depend on the custom of the place (i.e., they depend on the custom to be stringent, but not to be lenient) it is incumbent on the local Rav who provides Halachic decisions, to clarify and rule with regard to that particular place.

Additionally and this too is of primary importance the necessity to be stringent in accordance with the conditions of the location, does not necessarily mean that this is a mere stringency. For it is also possible that the conditions of the place cause it to be a Torah prohibition. And we find this to be so with regard to many matters.

Excerpt from a letter of the Rebbe, 13 Cheshvan , 5732

(5/13/2011 9:42:25 AM)
255
WHERES CHAYA SURIE??????
No really on a serious note.......254 comments in a few hours shows that this is really touching everyone of us deeply. I am in tears thinking where our ship has sailed?? can we turn it back. What will it take? Im a Bais Rivkah graduate in the 70's...oy im old....ok Tznius was not handled nicely then, who likes to be told how to cover her knees. Then it was only the knees. Never neckline, tightness etc.....I cry when I think how my yeshiva boys cant walk down Kingston ave. The street that Rebitzen Chana graced. How sad. What can we doing in a loving way to turn this around?
(5/13/2011 11:02:04 AM)
256
to#253
sadly you are correct.i've seen post sem girls at my school dillegently saying chitas while their shirts are very open,tight......
(5/13/2011 11:03:34 AM)
257
WORRY ABOUT YOUR OWN NEIGHBOURHOOD
SHAME ON ALL YOU FRUM JEWS. THERE IS ENOUGH TZORRES IN THIS CRAZY WORLD OF OURS. WHY CAN'T JEWS LIVE IN PEACE, REGARDLESS OF WHERE THEY COME FROM, WHAT THEY BELIEVE IN AND, IN PARTICULAR, WHAT SECT OF CHASSIDUM THEY ARE FROM. WE ARE ALL JEWS AND HASHEM'S FAMILY. IF YOU DON'T LIKE IRIS'S STORE THEN DON'T SUPPORT HER BECAUSE SOMEONE ELSE WILL.
(5/13/2011 11:06:41 AM)
258
Chabad in Flatbush
They are completely 100% correct. We need to improve our values.
Ahavas Hashem begins with our own community first.
(5/13/2011 11:26:07 AM)
259
Chitas on the train with a..
256

so sad but so true, I felt embarrased meeting someone on the train, davening the whole way holding a chitas, and wearing half clothes on all sides.....
(5/13/2011 11:33:02 AM)
260
wow so much reading material !!!
... but I no longer need the bathroom ;)
(5/13/2011 11:50:10 AM)
261
What ever happend to Bitul Torah!!!!
(5/13/2011 11:50:34 AM)
262
Such LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSERS
(5/13/2011 11:50:56 AM)
263
BS''D
There should be an equal amount of Lubavitchers telling them to put their signs down so they can give them a hug. I Love Every Yid!
(5/13/2011 11:54:34 AM)
264
to 215
YES! ALL JEWS ARE RESPONSIBLE FOR ONE ANOTHER AND HASHEM SAYS IN TORAH THAT OUR LACK OF TZNIUS WILL HURT OTHERS. WHEN WE DONT KEEP, YIDDEN GET HURT. ITS A FACT. SORRY. AND IF THERES SOMETHING ABOUT YOUR RELIGION YOU DONT UNDERSTAND YOU CAN LEARN THE ANSWERS FROM THE RIGHT SOURCES, THEYRE ALL THERE.
(5/13/2011 11:54:56 AM)
265
hmmm
Since it took me so long to read each and every comment, its hard to remember who wrote what if i didnt write it down.
160-Why are you surprised? How could schools preach if the teachers themselves are not tznuis?
180-there was a demand for it. read 196 said
185-your comment made me almost cry. while i think 204 is extreme, i can relate to what heshe is saying
190-Why? 179 has a valid point, and why are you singling that comment out from all the others?
192-huh?
189-agreed.
215-yes, it says clearly that if people are not tznuis, they will cause themselves and others great pain. you dont know what your talking about.
221-your wrong. the MAJAROITY are not tznuis.
222-waiting for someone to mention that!!
206-ha!
226-yes!!
227-ill be the first to sign!
228-please write an op ed!!
230-these comments are direced to you.
thank you 239
249, and 26-we did. the reasults were horrible. as 231 pointed out.
PLEASE STOP CALLING THESE PEOPLE SATMAR!!
I dont understand...many people are saying, ON THIS I AGREE. what do you agree? that the salon should move? you guys should read each and every comment here. I advise everyone too. It is amazing what people have to say!!
(5/13/2011 11:59:36 AM)
266
what?
I agree that the lack of tznius in Crown Heights is totally out of control, but what does that have to do with opening a nail salon in Williamsburg or them protesting in Crown Heights? Doesn't Iris say that she's just making it more convenient for the Williamsburg women so that they don't have to shlep to Crown Heights. They're using her services anyway. Their husbands should be happy t hat the wives are saving on gas by not having to drive into Crown Heights anymore!
(5/13/2011 12:43:02 PM)
267
to 11
did you read the article?
(5/13/2011 12:44:28 PM)
268
club
This makes me wanna open up a club in the area. LOL Problem is these guys would be excellent customers!
(5/13/2011 12:44:33 PM)
269
To 67 from Gedaliah Goodman
Rivkah doesn't need to move from CH, but G-d willing you & your
kind, who think like you will leave CH. Hopefully you will be gone
soon, along with all those "cool" buchurim that you seem to admire so much. They are very UGLY & disgusting to have them
here in CH. If that's the kind of girls they like to "Look at" they
are all over, Las Vegas, L.A., Miami, Rio, a nice sunny beach,
etc. They are walking the streets everywhere. What a wonderful
thing you have to say about your teachers, rebbeim, mashpiim,
yeshivahs, & shuls you attend. I guess you can just blame it on
your disgusting education & upbringing. I am sorry that's what you
received & hopefully others will learn from reading what you have to say, & will guard themselves & their children & friends from
such terrible influences. What you call "Chasidishe girls", are
NOT Chasidish at all, none of them. Of course you & you kind
do not understand this at all. Hopefully you & you friends, boys
& girls will get help.
(5/13/2011 12:45:06 PM)
270
speechlesss!!
i dont know what to say.. but i am ashamed at all of you....
(5/13/2011 12:52:31 PM)
271
to #230
Go have your head examined.
(5/13/2011 1:02:20 PM)
272
And...
And the Circus goes on and on....

...oy lonu kee chotonu ....
(5/13/2011 1:05:40 PM)
273
ryl10 (worth to be placed as #1a??)
Having perused most of the comments, I did not see anyone addressing the well known chassidic adage: "one ought to draw a lesson in avodah from whatever one sees or hears". There is the famous story of the Besh"t's talmidim who once saw goyim carving out a cross out of a frozen river, and were at loss as to what they possibly could learn from seeing that. The Baal Shem Tov explained to them that, in spite of water being the source of Tahara, it could nonetheless become a source of impurity if (holy matters are engaged into a) frozen, non-chayusdik state.
The lesson, based on the principle of Hashgacha Pratis governing every detail of Creation, was obtained regardless of whom it was obtained from--even base and gross goyim! The lesson WE have to draw from seeing this is likewise irrelevant to WHOM we get it from. Call them what you will--Satmar, Neturei Karta or whatever---they are certainly no worse than those goyim--actually imcomparably much higher and better!
(5/13/2011 1:16:12 PM)
274
=( think of immodesty as...
a walking advertisement to the world that you suffer on the inside from low-self-esteem & derive your importance by publicly degrading yourself,

by dressing like a pros...u only send a message of low self regard & desperation for male attention on the street,

your sense of importance should derive from ideals of substance & depth.

(for those ladies who are unhappily married, seeking grabbing male attention on the street only degrades ur sense of value even further)
(5/13/2011 1:30:57 PM)
275
Immodesty = Inner desperation
its painful to see how many suffer with inferiority issues
(5/13/2011 1:32:36 PM)
276
not true
who ever says that they are right your wrong!!!!!!!!!!
what is wrong with having a nail salon in your neighborhood?
they are wrong!
(sorry if this u fends of you out there)
(5/13/2011 1:36:24 PM)
277
WOW comment #15
worth repeating:

15
life long Crown hightser
I fully respect their RIGHT to defend THEIR comunity against the slipery slope of "KOSHER" modernity... which step by step leads R"L to where kingston Ave has become HY"R

during sfira lets focus on LOVE!
true love is NO CONTRADICTION to civilized & polite disagreement! (aderabah)
(5/13/2011 1:39:46 PM)
278
In Monroe Kiryas Yoel
When u come in2 Kiryas Yoel there is a sign there just like the 1 in Meah Shearim "please respect the community & dress accordingly long sleeves long skirts, hair covered (4 married ladies) no mini skirts, tight skirts or shirts etc. U c a connection bet Kiryas Yoel & Meah Shearim they make their city just like meah Shearim & they want it 2 be that way besides 4 the fact that Meah Shearim & Bati Ungarin r 95 % Ungarish & there r a lot of Satmar & Toldos Aron in Mea Shearim 2gether with Other Hungarian Chassidim that hold the same way in Hashkafa. So yes if we see from Kiryas Yoel how they r so careful about Modesty y can't we learn from them. Right now in Williamsburg the Community has been fighting the bike lane on Bedford Ave bec ppl when they go biking don't dress modestly & they have screamed & yelled 2 the city about it, but the thing is they think they live in Meah Shearim & could make bedford Ave instead of Bedford ave change it 2 Rechov Meah Shearim so what do u see from all this that even the bike lane is an issue in crown heights we wouldn't say a word if it was along Kingston Ave, bec we see the way the ladies dress here.The Marathon is also an issue in Williamsburg. The thing is like this Williamsburg Kiryas Yoel Meah Shearim they r all the same mindset they all agree they hold of the Eda Hachareidis which is also 90 % Hungarian background Chassidish like Satmar & Toldos Aron so y can't we learn from these ppl. Yes we all have our faults but lets learn from them.
(5/13/2011 1:42:10 PM)
279
To 271
#230 doesn't what her head examined, she WANTS her skirt
examined. She doesn't seem to know that what she is showing
off. Rashi says that a women like that is Hefker & can be taken
by all. Unfortunately that is the new wave of this untznius womens movement
(5/13/2011 1:43:23 PM)
280
STOPPING a Mageifa IS AHAVAS YISROEL wrote:
its not correct to dub this Sinas chinum

You dont hate your neighbor if youre trying to prevent his house (or him/herself) from being burned or if he/she is trying to jump off a cliff and you try to stop him.


all who study the subject know well,
the great punishments that one invites by public violation of modesty,

this aint mussar,

this is Tanach!
(5/13/2011 1:45:52 PM)
281
Be OPEN-MINDED
.wait a minute folks
No doubt
there will be many local tzatzkes who will feel uncomfortable by their message,

but face it,
we live in a democracy & if u consider ur selves open-minded
then be open-minded to the possibility that they may be right on this matter,
maybe many of our problems & sufferings can be prevented if we had the blessings & protections that Torah promises comes to a Tznius community
(5/13/2011 1:52:13 PM)
282
It can be Done
Why just point a finger at Crown Heights the problem is ALL over the world. It is Sfiras Haomar I beg ALL WOMEN where ever you live PLEASE make it your mission to work on our znuis. One can dress smart and be znuis at the same time.
I T CAN BE DONE . You just need the WANT .May Hashem bring Moshiach now!!!
(5/13/2011 1:53:02 PM)
283
husbands and fathers
and maybe brothers too..

the ones who can influence this situation is YOU!
it really depends on the man at home..

learn the halachos, go to a rov, speak to a mashpia and ask their opinion/advice.

get some idea how to change things at home. how to have a positive influence in this regard on your spouse, your children,
learn how/when to comment, don't just leave it up the ladies..

don't belittle yourselves,
with much patience and determination you can have a beautiful royal family,
giving much nachas and having much impact on the community

your wife, your children want your guidance,
they want to hear you!
and whether they express positively or not, speak with lot's of love, lot's of stories, bring yiras shomayim into your home, starting first bechitzoiniyus - externally (thanks #228), Yiras shomayim is not 'hergeishim' (feelings), rather it means action! dressing according to halacha is basic yiras shomayim


set a plan of action and start today!
(5/13/2011 1:53:46 PM)
284
the fact of the matter is...
its theyre right to not want it in there community. if people in ch dont mind, thats there business, but williamsburg is there town. so iris, please pick up and leave thyere community
(5/13/2011 2:23:30 PM)
285
ITS LOVE! not judgmental!
if someone is hurting their family & neighborhood
(reads up on how immodesty damages & brings R"L plagues)
its NOT judgmental to inform them, & beg them to stop bringing a Mageifa to our community,

if i drill a whole in my seat the boat will sink! its NOT judgmental to judge that action as DAMAGING! & INCONSIDERATE OF THE PUBLIC INTEREST!
(5/13/2011 2:26:26 PM)
286
the Silent MAJORITY is finally speaking up!
Hashem will bless us with ONLY good news! by everyone strengthening our personal choices of TZNIUS

try it, test it, Brachos of the Rebbeh are always immediate!
(5/13/2011 2:30:41 PM)
287
an by the way...
dont start being judgamental about satmar. this is a minority group, just like we have one in lubavitch...
(5/13/2011 2:33:53 PM)
288
We should of done the same!!!! to save our families!!!
When the first chutzpedike Prutza walked down Kingston Ave, we should of stoped and BOOOO'd her in public. There would be no second and third!!!!!
We should go out and stop it now! We should explain these women that in CH the Rebbe's sechuna you have to respect your community, go outside and dress how you like not here!!
(5/13/2011 2:57:52 PM)
289
Some class PLEASE
To all these cool dressers.
If you choose not to be 100Tznius[ please have some class and dont dress like a portarican!!
You ain't impressing anyone, so please keep your tznius and your mind.
(5/13/2011 3:02:02 PM)
290
oh please!!!
they manage to get to bloomingdales, sax, daffys, zara etc they can find there way to c.h for their sheitals!!!
(5/13/2011 3:09:44 PM)
291
To all who commented
The one thing I have noticed living in Crown Heights is that the people who comment the most on Tznius issues have issues with someone in their own home. While I have to agree that Crown Heights and Tznuis is a major issue, I am not a person who is 100 percent tznius all the time (I wear a tichel out of the house). I also am not a hypocrite who sits with a tehillim and chitas and a tight short skirt or really tight shirt. I think also a lot of mothers make a whole big deal on Tznius issues and they have daughters who run around crown heights dressed very very inappropriately. I know of Friday night in front of my building there are tons of young girls and boys from very frum families sitting chatting and the girls are not covered like they should be.
Let's not point fingers who is right and who is wrong and worry about our own homes and our own issues. The grass might seem greener on the other side only because your not nurturing your own grass.

I also think that if the woman in Williamsburg are coming to Crown Heights to do these things are they coming to hide from their own community ways? To me this does not make sense on why it is ok to come here but not ok to be in the community.

People can say I am crazy and comment all they want I don't care because I know my parents brought me up right and I know my children will be brought up right.
(5/13/2011 3:38:07 PM)
292
what a chilull HASHEM!!
the way those guys are protesting and screaming ismore untzniusdik than having a store in their neighborhood catering to what their women r looking 4 in our neighborhood. They tthink in CH its OK 4 them to shout and for their wives to go to a salon but not Chas V'sholem in williamsburg there its pure Kdushahh LOL
(5/13/2011 4:17:36 PM)
293
#291
you have missed the point

BH up until now there has been no issue of tznius in my home,
why does it matter anyway whether you have issues or not?
the fact that my fellow lubavitcher brothers and sisters are behaving this way in the streets, hurts me and my family very much, and embarrasses the Rebbe..

we are one family, we love each other, and how dare we stab our father, and more so in public..

let's not respond with words! we need to respond with action.

and you're right!
we should start with our families first,
and immediatel even before so, first with our selves,
to begin caring about the issue, be extra carefull with even minor details each one according to their level.

as someone commented, your family and friends will see an enhancement in your lifestyle, and that will begin a good trend.

look at yourself for example;
instead of just accepting the lifestyle you chose up until now, i.e. to wear a tichel outside the house, which is clearly not to the nachas of the Rebbe.
instead of continuing your way,
maybe you should make a difference! in your and your family's life,
and imagine the impact you will have on all those around you, unbelievable!! a million points!

one small change (the uncomfort of the sheitel will disappear eventually - once you get use to it) can change the community and change the world!

and the bigger the sacrifice, the bigger the impact.

and when you make that change, do it proudly! the impact will be even greater!

(5/13/2011 4:26:51 PM)
294
to #199
love your comment!..... keep posting them!!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/13/2011 4:59:11 PM)
295
what a positive 'tumult'
just heard about this discussion and decided to check it out. wow! what an awakening!

one point to add:

imagine the influence this is all having on our sons, our boys!

if parents speak about this at home,
or if one comments to his daughter (or even wife) in a respectable manner, some thing he found not abiding to tznius,
now your son (or your brother,etc) standing nearby hears you, (make sure that he's around to hear you every once in a while). that can have everlasting influencet!
in other words, our boys need to hear tznius too

i shall share a story,
a family member of mine, a respected magid shiur, came once here to the Rebbe for yom tov. his wife wears one of the old style yerushalmi tichels (she comes originally from a yerushalmi not lubavitch family),
once, while standing around the dining room table i happen to notice some motioning bet him and his wife, i was around 16 at that time (and didn't know too much, althought i did always have that background of my mother speaking to my sisters in about tznius) and it took me a little bit of time but then i figured i out;
he noticed from the opposite side of the table, that some (very little) of her hair was mistakenly sticking out of her tichel, so he was motioning to his wife to stick it back in..
and being a very respectful couple, she immediately did stuck it in and continued what she was doing,
this was all done quietly w/o commotion.. and it had a massive imprint on me. I then realized the importance of the hair (even a tiny bit of hair) to be always covered, I then also witnessed their respect and admirance to one another, and all done with such simplicity, such modesty. just beautiful.

everytime we talk about it, we comment, we dress and act more tzniusdik, it's one step ahead in the right direction.

thank you all for the inspiration
(5/13/2011 5:17:46 PM)
296
.................................!...............!......................!...............!
WOW
look how many comments this brought!
(5/13/2011 5:43:47 PM)
297
hmmm
to 181-were not seeing it because were not deserving (not tznuis)
to 291-they dont mind the salon, they just dont want it on the main street.
Okay, next time im in crown heights, if i see someone not tznuis i will go over to her and talk to her. Why are shluchos so much more tznius than others?
(5/13/2011 5:57:43 PM)
298
@293 GREAT QUOTE
"how dare we stab our father, and more so in public?!

just remember that the typical women who has the need to dress that way is (sorely) misrable on the inside (& clearly are starving for attention of the wrong kind,

we need to love them & show true Compassion they are not REBBELLING as much as they are suffering in their marrieges from insufficient satasfaction from their own hubby's attention!

how sad,

dont hate them!

feel bad for them! & thank g-d ur NOT given their desperation & low self dignity-image
(5/13/2011 6:17:44 PM)
299
I never comment
its amaizing to see how passionately everyone feels for Tznius! BH BH
(5/13/2011 6:18:38 PM)
300
why are 99% of the posts pro Halacha?
it must be that those women who degrade themselves in public dont know the bad fortune that such choices brings to their Family

they are surely ignorant!

no loving wife/mother would intentionally put their "low-self-esteem" ahead of their family's blessings (promised by Torah)
(5/13/2011 6:22:08 PM)
301
hahahaha
this is tooo funny, love comment 199!!!!!!!!!!!
(5/13/2011 6:24:59 PM)
302
Guardians of Tznius
I don't mind people protesting against something they think is wrong. The problem is that the Vaad HaTznius in Williamsburg is just a big extortion ring, whose highest standards in tznius include men yelling at women in public for wearing sheitels, covering up for Rabbis who abuse children, and terrorizing the victims of abuse. Google "vaad hatznius williamsburg" and you'll see what I mean. At least one bigwig in the Vaad has been arrested on charges of abuse.
(5/13/2011 6:44:10 PM)
303
Love Iris!
Thank You Iris for the excellent service :)
(5/13/2011 6:45:03 PM)
304
GO IRIS!!!!
So typical of them to forget about Ahavas Yisroel and embarras a fellow jew like that. They are partners with terrorists, An embarrasment to judiasm.
(5/13/2011 7:02:00 PM)
305
302
who cares?

that's not our derech and we are not trying to change williamsburg,
(5/13/2011 7:03:19 PM)
306
Chill!
Okay, everybody needs to seriously relax!
The way I see it is that Torah and everything Jewish should always be remembered and followed...but the times are changing and there's nothing wrong with modernizing as long as you stay true to your religion and beliefs.
People should start focusing on themselves and their own families before they start nitpicking at others. Everyone always talks about how Crown Heights and Lubavitch is not tznius anymore blah blah, and if it indeed is that way, then stop being hypocrites; we all have our imperfections! What ever happened to ahavas yisroel?
We need to stop blaming the outside world for the mishaps in our community! The outside world will constantly change but as long as we have Hashem, do mitzvos and stop critizing our neighbors, we will be okay! Promise!!


Moshiach Now!!!
(5/14/2011 2:08:27 AM)
307
@66
That's brilliant, I burst out laughing.
(5/14/2011 9:56:18 AM)
308
The Rebbe on ST 5730
At a farbrenghen on Simchas Torah 5730, the Rebbe said that young girls should be told what their lack in tznius implies. When uncovering a part of themselves to impress others, it is as if they are carrying a poster announcing that they have nothing else to show for themselves: no intelligence or emotions, and even that their face is disgusting... Now, why would someone want to proclaim this publicly?! The truth is that each one has innate qualities, and once they understand this, the test of dressing tzniusdik will become easier.

My question is: how many parents tell their daughters such very important things?

And to all those who deny there is a issue of tznius in CH or who are claiming that we should be tolerant on the matter, you are those who are encouraging such violation of Halachah. The time for kind wors is over. It has been for so many years that we're using kinds words, and for what result? NOTHING! So, we need to tale action now that kind words had no result in improving the tzinus in CH, as the Rebbe said "HaMa'ase Hu HaYikar."
(5/14/2011 6:08:36 PM)
309
Boycott not tznius sheitle-machers...
I went to a 'sheitle-macher' who was not dressed modestly and will never go back again to her again.
(5/14/2011 10:13:37 PM)
310
The solution is simple.
The schools! A warning and then out!
(5/14/2011 10:26:28 PM)
311
at least not in shul!
what a disgrace!

girls and women dressed (or undressed) inappropiately coming to shul, even to 770! what an embarrasment!
CHUTZPAH!

WHERE'S THE MINIMUM RESPECT?
(5/14/2011 11:43:19 PM)
312
COL - MOST INFLUENTIAL!
COL , you are the most influential site in Lubavitch, maybe you can come up with some ideas/marketing for an effective tznius campaign.

thanks
(5/14/2011 11:45:32 PM)
313
Thank you
I am 26 and got married a few years go. recently i took upon myself that i should wear my sheitel every time i step out my home. in the beginning it wasn't that easy but I'm getting use to it and I feel very good about it.
it''s nice to get some backing and strength from this website.
(5/14/2011 11:56:08 PM)
314
pittsburgh
They are right couldn't agree more too much tolrence in Chabad
(5/15/2011 12:21:55 AM)
315
#300 is 100%
sad but true
(5/15/2011 12:23:35 AM)
316
dont boycott = EDUCATE
the loving thing todo is to SHOW the all the POSITIVE blessings the REBBE promised for the family of 1 who is Modest!

& to Educate them & Inform them what Torah says happens to those who violate... R"L
(5/15/2011 12:27:19 AM)
317
This is neturei karta
one of the pictures clearly says NK
(5/15/2011 2:30:24 AM)
318
hold up
there are a LOT of you who are confusing the tzniut issue with the above article,do you realise that the NK who are compared to jewish taliban by almost all other chasidic groups.And you are looking up to them as the ones who should teach us tznius lessons??!!they are laughing all the way to ahmedinajad.Please use sechel,if there is a tzniut issue then find another forum for it,by giving the NK a platform on which to preach to us,makes me for one VERY uneasy where chabad takes role models.what is going on here??They should have been kicked off the street,why is noone discussing the issue of putting someone to shame and trying to put someone out of business??this is NOT halacha.If only each person would wake up and think what does hashem want from me today we would be living in a far better place.Moshiach Now!
(5/15/2011 4:10:28 AM)
319
MISHUGOIM N.K.
WHAT HAPPENED, THERE IS NO MORE PLACE IN KINGS COUNTY HOSPITAL-BUILDING G ??
(5/15/2011 4:56:00 AM)
320
Come on!
They seem to be too addicted on protesting in public!
As far as I'm concern they should protest to the Iris Sherman like normal people!
There's no point at all to put the blame on chabad!!
We are not the owners of this Salon and it's definitely not our problem!
(5/15/2011 5:10:22 AM)
321
Sheitals
I'm in Israel and I wish there were more frum salons for women here - a modest place to get my hair cut and nails done. What's wrong with having beautifully manicured nails for Shabbos? I think they are protesting the idea of sheitals - that's what they're calling "not tzinus".
(5/15/2011 8:58:13 AM)
322
To 321
They don't have any issue with a beauty salon nor with Miss Sherman. Their issue is that they fear opening such salon in THEIR neighborhood by a LUBAVITCH woman will lead little by little to the sad and poor level of tznius we have in OUR neighborhood. And without judging Ms. Sherman, who I'm sure is very tzniusdike woman, their fear can be justified. Some W'burg women can be tempted to follow in our path and adopt little by little low standards in tznius. Their fear is that it will began with too fancy nails, then too fancy sheitelach and end with too short skirts, as is the situation in CH. That's why they are asking us to respect the fact that they chose to live with HIGHER standards than in Lubavitch, and we should respect that. And in fact they are worthy to be praised to stand for tznius and kedushah. If we were praiseworthy in our tznius, they would be no protest.
(5/15/2011 12:59:45 PM)
323
to 318
no one is looking up to them- like it says in hayom yom you can learn certain character traits from a thief- they are certainly reshaim for many reasons but we can learn to stick up for your beliefs.
(5/15/2011 1:25:00 PM)
324
boycott
i agree, i do no feel comf shopping in a store or hiring a babysitter that cant even respect herself and her customers. i try to keep all my dealings with tznius ppl.
(5/15/2011 1:27:36 PM)
325
If I'm the last comment, Im very sorry not so many people can read this..
I think that those people are doing what they think is right but they are illogical. Banners arent going to stop her. People have a right to have a buisness in Williamsburgh! They can move to an exotic country and have their levels of tznius.

I wont be surprised if when they need a shidduch, they dont meet the girl!

*Seriously, though, do they date?
(5/15/2011 1:32:20 PM)
326
I think you made a mistake
These are not Satmar Chassidim, they are Arab loving Neturei Karta - they are wearing the NK badges!
(5/15/2011 2:37:37 PM)
327
GUYS
GO LEARN.
(5/15/2011 4:32:40 PM)
328
pfffft
if "they" don't like the establishment, it will go out of business on its own.

I think the issue is who is "they".

Williamsburg probably has - like CH - many degrees of "kedusha", many rabbonim, etc. and there are probably many people there who have no problem with an establishment for women, by women.

maybe the handful of protesters belong to one family whose ladies run a private home-based nail treatment business which is now threatened by competition. and it would then be par for the course for them to make the issue a religious one...

(note how mixed into this mini-protest there's israel, moshiach, whatever they can they throw)
(5/15/2011 4:49:23 PM)
329
IRIS means well
they have no right to feel disrespected the fact that she opened a business in willi
at least she isent dressing in a provocative or offensive way
at least she shoes them respect for their values & sensitivities!
IRIS is a good heart & would never do anything that can hurt other peoples sensitivities
im sure she is currently seeking ways to relocate to a less in-your-face location
(5/15/2011 4:58:06 PM)
330
i agree with number 319
its crazy! who do they think they are? and since when is Crowen Hights their neighborhood?
(5/15/2011 7:29:43 PM)
331
what do they mean?
what do they mean judaisim rejects zionisim! thats not true Hashem promised avraham this land so why cant we fight for it?
(5/15/2011 7:49:28 PM)
332
wats thier problem?
why put the blame on chabad when we didnt do a thing?
(5/15/2011 8:15:25 PM)
333
!! a fellow woman who is soo mad
ITS A NAIL SALON! Cant women relax and LOOK NICE?!?!!?!?!? they cant cut their wigs without it looking like plastic??? imagine if YOU mr rabbi wore a wig every day????/
(5/15/2011 8:24:09 PM)
334
to # 333
I totally agreewith # 333 !!! the only diference is that i am no a mad woman... I a mad man...!
(5/15/2011 8:46:06 PM)
335
Agree to disagree AGREEABLY!
theres no contradiction between LOVE & Disagreement

i happen to to disagree with IRIS's choices & at the same time Respect & love her as a fellow jew

i do not judge her as a person!

i simply think she & i see the world differently, and thats ok!

this is the way of our Torah,

"lets agree, to dis-agree, agreeably"
(5/15/2011 10:05:29 PM)
336
KOL HAKAVOD to COLIVES posters
95% of the comments above are Respectable Sensible Thoughtful & Civilized!

Halevai all other "chabad" sites had a sophisticated tone such as this site
(5/16/2011 1:12:11 AM)
337
rochel gruenfeld
1st i thought: "these poor women of satmar and othrs! no make up or ne/t, which most women like, not just 2 show off, but 2 look nice and put 2geth, and make a kiddush Hashem! then i thought "its their tradition, minhagim, etc. their fiune with it, so lets leave it that way!
(5/16/2011 1:12:34 AM)
338
realistic
lets be realistic...chabad girls especially here in CH have got some serious tznius issues...none of them would be dressing this way if they really felt that this was the rebbe's shechunah..of course the williamsburg protesters are a little too much even for my taste forcing women to wear garbage bags but we should at least use their coming here to complain as a wake up call for what CH should mean to us and the rebbe who created this place!!
(5/16/2011 10:10:11 PM)
339
Whats the difference? G-d has many shluchim...
If we truly believe: "Harbay shluchim le Makom" (G-d has many ways of getting a message across) so we know that even though we don't like the message, still it was sent from above to us! Ay we don't like their pins and flags. But still the message of "Tznius Is A Problem Here" (and shouldn't be) should not be ignored
(5/17/2011 9:50:18 AM)
340
They are right!
We should learn from them how to correct our tznius problem that is getting out of hand!
(5/23/2011 10:40:31 PM)
341
dont get it...
I Dont get whats going on......
(4/17/2012 6:50:36 PM)
What's Your Opinion? Post a Comment
Title:

Your Comment:


Comments must be approved before being published. Thank You!


Make COLive your homepage | Contact Us
© 2014 COLLIVE.com