Feb 28, 2011
This Isn't "Dirty Laundry"
Op-Ed: The argument that talking about indecent abuse will give the community a "bad name" does not supersede the obligation to protect the innocent from being hurt.
by Eliyahu Federman
As part of a series on protecting children, an educational seminar to take place March 8th, 2011, at 8:00 PM, at Bais Rivka, 310 Crown Street, Brooklyn, is going to revolve around identifying, reporting and preventing child indecent abuse - a largely unaddressed issue in our community.
Noted lecturer and Chabad.org columnist Mrs. Bronya Shaffer is coordinating the event and believes it should be mandatory given the necessity to address child indecent abuse issues.
(As of now, participating schools include Bais Rivka High School, Bnos Menachem, Darchei Menachem, Bnos Yisroel, Beis Chaya Mushka, Oholei Torah, Lubavitch Yeshiva and is being endorsed by Igud Hamenahalim.)
In an article titled Creating a Sane Environment: Protecting the Innocence of Children, Rabbi Manis Friedman chillingly surmises that close to half the people he has met were abused.
That is a staggering figure from someone who has been working in our educational system for decades and certainly reflects national survey averages of a 25% rate of childhood indecent abuse (this is an average of slightly varying statistics from different agencies and includes both men and women).
The panel will consist of Dr. David Pelcovitz, Rabbi Shloime Sternberg, Professor Gavriel Fagin and Assistant District Attorney Henna White. Mrs. Shaffer will emcee.
Attorney White spearheads Project Kol Tzedek – Hebrew for ‘Voices of Justice’ – a program offering culturally sensitive support, assistance and advocacy for victims of abuse.
Dr. Pelcovitz is a psychologist whose career over the past 25 years has focused on clinical practice and research in areas related to trauma, child abuse and parenting. Prof. Fagin’s clinical practice is devoted to identifying and treating young offenders and survivors of indecent abuse.
As someone who regularly refers survivors to professionals, Rabbi Sternberg will reflect on his experience in the educational system. Mrs. Shaffer explained that having Rabbi Sternberg speak would send a loud and clear message that there are those within the community who care, recognize the problem and believe in seeking help.
This seminar will be a tremendous Kidush Hashem because it will show the secular world that we are not afraid to confront the challenges that our community faces – and in fact every community faces.
The argument that publicity will give the community a "bad name" and "why air our dirty laundry in public?" does not supersede the obligation to protect the innocent from being hurt. Of course we all agree that our essential concern should be protecting our children and families, not our perceived reputation.
Rabbi Simon Jacobson said it best in an op-ed titled Shoftim: Exposing Abuse: "The greatest Kiddush Hashem is when a Torah based community demonstrates that it… isn’t merely concerned with reputations and shidduchim, but that it… demands the highest standard of accountability amongst its citizens, and invest the greatest possible measures to protect its children from predators, create trust and absolutely will not tolerate any breach or abuse. That the greatest sin of all is ignoring or minimizing crimes being perpetrated against our most innocent and vulnerable members: our children."
After expressing resounding support for a seminar on this subject, Rabbi Manis Friedman explained to me that that the most damaging element of being abused is suffering in silence and by identifying the abuse early on and providing a medium for a child to speak out – you ameliorate the suffering.
It is every parent's and teacher's mandate to help prevent abuse by establishing a dialogue with their child or student in order to be able to detect and identify early signs of abuse – and nip the issue in the bud.
In essence, the seminar will provide practical advise to teachers, parents and the community on how to: (a) detect early signs of abuse, (b) insure that children will be comfortable talking about any inappropriate behavior, (c) report abuse while protecting the anonymity of the survivor and (d) identify, address and distinguish between potential deviances versus healthy behavior in adolescents and teens.
What are your thoughts on this upcoming educational seminar? Do you think it is imperative on every parent, teacher and community member to attend?
Related Articles:
+ Where were you last night?
+ Tonight: Stopping Child Abuse
+ Who's Responsible for Abuse?
+ Shliach to Fight Family Violence
+ Study: Spanking Lowers IQ
+ Am I My Brother's Keeper?
+ Lecture Deals with Abuse
+ How to Prevent Child Abuse
Don't you think that R' Manis Friedman, whom you cited for the proposition that half the children in the our education system have been abused, was exaggerating?
Do you in good faith take R' Friedman at his word that half of the people he meets were indecently abused as children? It delegitimizes advocates against problems of "indecent child abuse" (as opposed to "decent" abuse?) when they use sensationalism.
I do not mean to belittle your work. However, you, as a professional, should rise above hyperbole by finding verifiable statistics to demonstrate how widespread the problem is (surely far less than 50% of children, based on common knowledge). Alternatively, you should make a compelling argument by focusing on the pressing issue without regard to numbers or estimates.
Yanky N.
is it open for the public?
how many speeches and articles would it take to make it "addressed"? the N'shei Chabad Newsletter has been carrying articles and letters on this topic since September of 2006. There have been numerous community events (two by Rubashkin, two by Shaffer, one in JCM, one in Bais Rivkah at 310, one in Mosdoth for staff, and several parents' workshops in parents' homes). Every single Rov and Menahel in this community has met with Dr. Pelcovitz at least once - many have met with him several times. Give us some credit, please!
This is not to say that another event is not needed - it surely is - in fact many more are needed. people are eager to learn and to protect their children and that is beautiful, B"H. but there's no need to j'accuse an entire community of sweeping it under the rug. give credit where due.
Nevertheless, pouring cold water on this issue due to a technicality is wrong. Better that parents should be overzealous in protecting their children b/c they think it's 50%, then them being lax about it Ch"vm
You would be well advised to contact Mrs. Shaffer, to get educated , and than once you're a bit more informed, you could make the sincere apology you so desperately owe her.
Mrs. Shaffer is one of the most honest and dedicated members of this community, looking out for its wellbeing in ways that you can't even imagine. You may not have heard from her, as she lacks the publicity of controversy and machlokes that we have come to expect from our community activist. If only you had the sense to see this, and may you never need her help (though to be sure, she would help you regardless).
Yanky, you can be sure that any event that has Mrs. Shaffer Emceeing, is well worth your while to attend. I'm sure you will have ample opportunity to attack those you don't like, but you sure chose a rotten time.
I appreciate your perspective but strongly disagree with your characterization of my statements.
First, my statement was based on Rabbi Friedman’s discussions with me and his published article on Chabad.org not any sort of independent double-blind study.
Furthermore, I never claimed nor did Friedman claim that “half the children in the system were abused” but rather that half the children he has met were abused. There is a huge difference because he is more likely to meet children who were abused.
Lastly, the statistics I actually cite is 25%. That figure is clearly supported by national survey averages. I hope this helps clarify my statements.
Sincerely,
Eli F.
I can see how emotion can get to people, but we have to stay away from hyperbole - like the 50% quote with R' Manis Friedman...
thanks
Hiding the crimes or transferring the criminal to another yeshiva or silencing the victims allows them to continue. As long as they can get away with it, they will violate little children.
Opportunities they can provide. Victims they can find and groom and vent their unnatural desires. The one thing they require from you is your protection.
Every time you silence a child who has the heroic courage to come forward you destroy an innocent life. Every time you tell the rabbi instead of the police you partake in the rape of someone's precious baby. Every time you shun the victim's family you drink their tears. Every time you do this you drive a Jewish soul away from G-d.
It really is that simple.
Shame on anyone who tells you differently.
====
COLlive response:
We are using the word "indecent abuse" by the suggestion of a mashpia as a clean alternative to the otherwise explicit-sounding term.
Bronya Shaffer
On a deeper dimension, adding a flavor of a Halacha nature, adds importance to the issue. Anyone, whether child or adult (yes, adult, as in abused women who have frequented my doorstep); anyone who is the subject of abuse etc. is in fact a prisoner to the "reality" within which they live. They are the most tragic "shevuyim" one can imagine. Captive to a persons shielded by their respectable status. Sometimes by the aura of position, such as teacher, mashpiya (yes, the ones who, even as bochurim, were gathering younger boys to special farbrengens, excursions etc.) school principal or director, and even Rabbi (usually with adult women in stress.) This aura is nigh impossible to break, as my personal experience illustrated to me for years in Monsey, where a neighboring Rabbi was impervious (until exposed). My words of caution to individuals was either ignored, or ascribed to my supposed “jealousy” of a colleague’s success. (There are still followers – deniers.)
PIDYON SHEVUYIM is the highest priority in monetary Tzedaka – can it be any different in “time and effort” Tzedaka?
There is a very serious practical issue, as far as Anash and the outlying extensions are concerned. My absolute frustration is, in holding highly sensitive information, given in the most faithfully sworn confidence. What does one do, when tangible (if not conclusive) evidence indicates, that, for example, a pre-school director in an outlying arm, is in fact guilty of multiple M.
It is not unheard of, in other types of issue, for me to turn up at a crisis center and “case out” the situation first hand. However, any attempt on my own part, to make an appearance (personally) to an outlying post, would be unusually clumsy, and abortive to the purpose of the visit. (The same would apply to turning up locally, here in the Shchunah, to a venue of question, such as a party for kids and or etc. They happen. Farbrengens with lots of mashkeh for the young, propelling them to a stupor, where memories of what transpired will be blurred.)
There is a possible solution, but it is not for here.
Rabbi Mattis Kantor, Eastern Parkway, NY.
P.S. The following quote from Rabbi Manis Friedman appears to have mistaken the context:
“Rabbi Manis Friedman chillingly surmises that close to half the people he has met were abused. That is a staggering figure from someone who has been working in our educational system for decades and certainly reflects national survey averages of a 25% rate of…”
(a) His experience is with mature girls who have come to Minnesota for a complete change of life. There is a background motivation to this (which does not diminish the correctness and the mitzvos.) This is not a statistic for Lubavitch in any location chas vesholom.
(b) He refers to “half” – how does the op-edder concur that 50% to 25%?
This is an important topic and doesn't need to be "sensationalized". From the way the author wrote it, it did not come across the way he explained it in comment 11.
Yasher Koach to all involved.
As well, let's have good faith in the greater community (beyond the numbers) to be able to discern "sensation"/"hyperbole"/exaggeration from the everyday reality of the issues occurring "in the trenches." Let's give people credit that they notice what's going on in their own "backyards."
The community doesn't need to see exact numbers to alert us that we have a problem with issues such as child abuse.
More importantly, we first need to communicate about and address them, giving them voice (such as in this forum). Perhaps, more accurate numbers can come later (with your help?).
Additionally, it's inappropriate for our children's fates to hinge on us striving for an outwardly unflawed image ("professionalism"), instead of acting on chesed/connection and redemption.
Also, keep in mind that people like Rabbi Friedman and Mr. Federman are trying and taking on a very sensitive issue - trying to resolve them while protecting people's dignity (definitely a "monumental" feat for anyone - no exaggeration).
The works of Rabbi Friedman and Mr. Federman... please receive their "gifts" lovingly, even if the "wrapping paper/packaging" may not appear immaculate in your estimation. Maybe you can assist them. Ask yourself, "What support and contribution to solutions am I bringing to the table?"
There's nothing stopping you from gathering the most "accurate" statistics and editing for every detail, "sweating over the small stuff" - hatzlacha with that undertaking.
We look forward to your show of what your "professional" results look like, while the well-being of our precious children (our future) is being communicated, advocated, and fostered.
Yoel A.
Candid conversation in this forum is being accomplished - with modest words (as best as possible). This is not a matter to be taken lightly - "worlds" are created and destroyed by speech. Thank you for understanding a way different from yours.
Jeff
Kol Hakavod!
My comment was directed at Mr. Federman. As a colleague of Mr. Federman, I gave him professional criticism (see R' Matis Kantor's postscript above in comment 18 for the problem with the language).
Notwithstanding no mention in my comment of Mrs. Shaffer, you launched into a tirade and called me Amalek for a supposed attack on Mrs. Shaffer. I did not direct my comment at Mrs. Shaffer, nor did it refer to her backhandedly. Neither was my comment directed at the event or the underlying problem of child abuse. There is simply no way to conclude from my words that I meant ill, or any sentiment at all, toward Mrs. Shaffer. Before replying with smug and sensationalist tirades against someone generally on your side of the issue, it would be well-advised that you use your critical faculties instead of finding innocent scapegoats.
Yanky N.
Interesting reaction to this issue.
Plus, as collive responded, we are Frum Jews, and the other terminology is explicit-sounding. Finally, a Frum, Lubavitch forum on the subject, coming from our prespective of Chassidishe, Yiddishe, and moral values.
Working on preventing this trauma and treating children (and adults) who have unfortunately gone through such a harrowing trauma is HATZOLAS NEFOSHOS MAMOSH!
There are numerous instructions from the rebbe not to use the common used term, but rather to use a tzinusdiker term.
"We hear a lot about child abuse. It seems that half the people we meet have been abused as children. "
It's quite obvious from the context that he was making a sweeping general observation which was obviously somewhat exaggerated, not offering a statistic based on his actual experience.
the N'shei Chabad Newsletter has been carrying articles and letters on this topic since September of 2006.
There have been numerous community events (two by Rubashkin, two by Shaffer, one in JCM, one in Bais Rivkah at 310, one in Mosdoth for staff,
and several parents' workshops in parents' homes). Every single Rov and Menahel in this community has met with Dr. Pelcovitz at least once - many have met with him several times.
Give us some credit, please!
people are eager to learn and to protect their children and that is beautiful, B"H.
but there's no need to accuse an entire community of sweeping it under the rug!! just to sensationalize!!
MOSER!
how many times is this epithet thrown indiscriminately at people who care and try to make a difference.
yes there is a concept of not being moser, but it is NOT a blanket issur. there definitely times when being moser helps not only victims, but even perpetrators.
when criminals in the frum community know that they will have the backing of the community against the evil non-jewish justice system, it encourages bad behavior.
we NEED to have an adult conversation about what really constitutes mesirah and when it is a legitimate tool.
ps this is not only an issue within abuse, but within many areas of our community. whenever there is a fight, you can count on at least one of the sides, if not both, calling the other side "mosrim"
we need to know when it is ok to take a stand, using all available tools in the fight against injustice and abuse
That way everyone will read it and hopefully attend, as opposed to many skipping over what might be just another op-ed article.
+ It is estimated that 1 in 4 girls and 1 in 6 boys will have experienced an episode of abuse while younger than 18 years. The numbers of boys affected may be falsely low because of reporting techniques (Botash, Ann, MD, Pediatric Annual, May, 1997).
+ Sixty-seven percent of all victims of assault reported to law enforcement agencies were juveniles (under the age of 18); 34% of all victims were under age 12. One of every seven victims of assault reported to law enforcement agencies were under 6. Forty percent of the offenders who victimized children under age 6 were juveniles (under the age of 18). (Bureau of Justice Statistics, 2000).
+ Most children are abused by someone they know and trust, although boys are more likely than girls to be abused outside of the family. A study in three states found 96% of reported rape survivors under age 12 knew the attacker. Four percent of the offenders were strangers, 20 percent were fathers, 16 percent were relatives and 50% were acquaintances or friends (Advocates for Youth, 1995).
http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32315
Let us analyze your words to determine if you agree with me that the number is much less than half of the population of Lubavitch youth, or if it is half, or even close to half. You said: "... a vast majority of heavily troubled children (both boys and girls) within the Lubavitcher educational system have been intimately abused."
Breaking that down, you assert that it is 1) a "vast majority" of the 2) "heavily troubled children" 3) "within the Lubavitcher education system." Giving you the benefit of the assumption that you are not exaggerating by calling it a "vast majority," it still only refers to only a minority of the minority of population of Lubavitcher school students; not just the troubled children, but within that subgrouping, the "heavily" troubled children. Either you agree with me that it is nowhere near half, or it is your head in the sand. You have limited the focus of the problem to a very small percentage of children, where it is probably - again, based on common knowledge - more widespread. "Indecent" abuse does not only happen to "heavily troubled children." Sometimes, victim-children show no signs whatsoever of the abuse or are able to repress the harm. Additionally, because we are dealing with children in the "Lubavitcher education system," one cannot premise numbers on R' Friedman's estimate - even was it accurate in his experience.
None of this fretting over numbers takes away from the immediacy and importance of the issue at hand. However, to be taken seriously, and to bring effective results, it is necessary not to exaggerate the issue.
If you think my head is in the sand, you have the wrong person. I can provide the names of eight people who were sitting around the table this past Shabbos, when I walked in and expressed how appalled I was to see a mother threaten and then proceed to smack her 3-4 year old child right on Kingston Avenue. What was worse, the mother showed no signs of embarassment when she looked up and saw me in shock. Sadly, this type of discipline is common place in our community and it is legal. This is also only among the mildest forms of physical and emotional abuse, but it is symptomatic of the pervasive problem.
Yanky N.
The excuse that this violates "tznius" is balderdash. Nobody's going to run out and commit adultery because they know the facts about child abuse. But as long as you hide behind it I can guarantee you will make life easier for the monsters who harm our children.
The non-Charedi world has learned how to teach children about child abuse. You can make things clear to them without being too graphic. Most of all they have to know that nobody, not a teacher, not a relative, not even their Rabbi has the right to touch their private parts and that you will listen to them. Teaching them to be ashamed and afraid of even the hint of an echo of these words makes the molester's job easy.
If you can't tolerate the same language we use to educate five year olds your sensibilities are much too fine to deal with the dirty diapers and runny noses that come with raising children.
Rabbis are not qualified to do criminal investigations. Neither are Beis Din. They aren't detectives or forensic psychologists. They simply don't have any of the necessary skills or legal powers.
And they have a terrible track record.
If you suspect abuse, go to the police. If you don't know what qualifies, ask them. If you're a teacher, a therapist, a doctor or any of the other mandatory reporters it's your legal duty. If you can't do the duty you agreed to by taking the job, find another job.
I assume this means the CH is the only community in the entire world which is immune to ever having had any pedophile in our midst ever yet.
What a Miracle!
We in CH are safe!
We in CH can all go to sleep rest assured that Menahalim have never ever yet had anyone arrested because of this miracle that CH is the only community in the entire world to never have had a pedophile ever yet in history.
Or did we have them and no one ever got them arrested perhaps?
So which Menahel is first to change his proven record on this so far?
Moms - Go. Really. For the sake of your kids.
I daven Chabad. I will "change diapers, wipe runny noses, and speak about body parts" (which you mention in the last sentence of comment #40).
Having been on both "sides of the fence," I recognize the worth/value in the concepts such as tzniut (that pervade all areas of our lives - not just in appearances and intimacy, but in speech, as well as in many other applications).
Also, while reading comment #40 - especially the last sentence - I recognize how divisive and hurtful it feels to be judged (for example, using "we" - as in, "we versus you meshugah frum" - as well as determining, in your estimation, that the frum are making children "ashamed," in addition to you determining what merits "raising children").
This "we versus you" elitist talk is divisive. I hope you recognize yourself as being blessed to be part of a PEOPLE - a very diverse, unique people, at that (especially while in exile/diaspora).
WE ALL need to be respectful of our differences and contributions among the various observances - WE ALL need to understand our roles (which includes gender and speech) in serving Hashem ... big picture here.
WE can't possibly believe we are designed and intended to be and do everything. I can't have a baby... but I can daven and do mitzvot. We have roles that are better suited for us to best produce and function... Similar to only some locations being best suited for growing grapes for wine, for example, while other locations are ideal for growing oranges.
Go spend Shabbos with an observant Jewish family (go visit Chabad or Charadi, like I did) - ask questions and refrain from continuing to rely on judgement, fear, and hearsay (How much hearsay is upheld in a court of law as "truth"? ...Not much at all.).
Further, WE should only aspire to elevate our connections with each other and, therefore, draw closer with Hashem.
Is the gossip in certain circles that tzniut/observance means not "...changing diapers, not wiping runny noses, and not talking about body parts"??? If so, such destructive, baseless, divisive talk needs to stop. Understanding and personal interaction needs to happen - similar to the source of problems in Arizona, regarding immigrants. Understand why I wash lettuce 3 times, for example, but maybe you don't - and that it's not just "meshuga."
Please make sure to read carefully - NO ONE IS EXCUSING CHILD ABUSE IN THE NAME OF "TZNIUT." The impression from comment #40 is of some people (like from my un-G-dly upbringing, which included abuse) ...People who indulge themselves as "sophisticated"/"of- the-world"/"egalitarian,"and, therefore, welcome everyone with a big smile... except (...in a whisper behind the back) observant Jews and "their 'meshugah' rules, looks, and ways" (that mess up everything for fitting in/'going with the flow).
Please understand - these "rules," such as tzniut are actually caring ways/minhagim in which observant (including Charadi) people use to protect themselves and others from potential harm. I wish I had such values in my upbringing.
Additionally, please understand that certain words, actions, and appearances are reserved for private forums - just like we wouldn't use curse words with or wear a bathing suit to visit the President or in a job interview. Perhaps what you are saying is that we, as a community, need to openly discuss and agree upon appropriate ways and outlets for reporting abuse - a great idea.
It seems from comment #40 that you actually personally agree that there is much value in protecting ourselves and people from harm, nachon? Then you must also respect the value of the concept of tzniut which purports the same.
The next time you READ the tefillot/prayers to Hashem, it's all there - for ALL JEWS: "...guard my tongue," "protect me so my eyes do not go astray," "protect me from a harmful person," and "please forgive me for anyone who I may have hurt" - Hashem, protect us!!!!
Just because tzniut reserves certain words, appearances, and actions for the sanctity of the private realm, does not mean it restricts serious issues (such as child abuse) from being addressed and discussed as a community (as definitely needs to happen).
Please, no more bashing - it will behoove all of us to stick to the universal principles and truths G-d gave us in the "Triple T" (Tefilah/prayer, Tzedakah/giving, and Teshuva/repentance) - the ways to ahavat Yisrael (loving your fellow Jew) and to Hashem and his ways
Ahavat Yisrael and Moshiach now!
Jeff
I see people who have kept a secret from the age the abuse happened as a child...well into their adult life, and only went for help, when their life became unbearable, often well into their adulthood, after suffering in silence for decades.
The stigma in our community associated with being a victim, often prevents children from coming forward, and even families, if they do find out about it, from dealing with it head-on, which makes out community a very safe place for the perpetrators of these crimes, and prevents survivors from getting the help they need to move on with their lives.
While our statistics are 1 in 4 women and 1 in 6 men that were victims of childhood abuse, consistent with the rest of the American population, and our rate of reporting abuse is close to 0%, and our rate of getting our children to therapy is still low, I think its fair to say that it's largely unaddressed.
As to Rabbi Friedman's comment that close to half the people he met with have been abused, I would say that if you work with the struggling youth, struggling married couples, teens with addictions and eating disorders, you will find a similar experience, of at lest half the people having been victims of childhood abuse, who did not get the therapy they needed.
Thank you Eli Federman, Bronya Shaffer and all the panelists for speaking out for our survivors who haven't yet found their voice.
Code Of The Jewish Law
By Rabbi Shneur Zalman Of Liadi
Laws of Money Damages – (Laws of Messira)
[Chosen Mishpot – Kehot Printing –Safer Vov- Page Kof-Chof]
For Original Hebrew Print – Click Here
[Free Translation]
(6) It is forbidden to Masser a Jew in to the hands of a Goy (Gentile), it makes no difference if its his body (âåó) or money (îîåï), even îîåï ÷ì, which means even if it’s a “light” (small) amount of money.,
This prohibition (àñåø) applies by ãéáåø, which means outright Messira through speech, Or even revealing what a fellow Jew wants to do, for example giving a hint, for example: if the Goy (âåé) asks the Yid where he can find strew, it is forbidden to tell him that it can be found in a specific Yid’s house, or even to just point to the Yid’s house, – without even saying anything, and anyone that does Massira has no part in the world to come.
Even a wicked person (øùò) and a sinner (áòì òáéøåú), it is forbidden to Massir on him, both in regard to his body (âåó) or money (îîåðå), and even if this person is a constant bother, for example, he’s always harassing you, it’s forbidden to Masser.
However, if this wicked person Massered on you, you are allowed to Masser on him, if there is reason to believe that this wicked person will continue his Mossering and the only way you can save yourself is by- Mossering on the wicked person or in a case that you were Massered on and that Messira was not dismissed, meaning it’s ongoing, your allowed to Masser, if that’s your last resort, and no other way out.
Also one that is violent who regularly hits people and there is no other way to protect yourself from him, unless you will Masser him to Goyim, that they shall take his money or “cut off his hands” that he may not be violent again. However, someone who hit his friend but he is not regularly violent rather this was a one time thing, it is forbidden even for the person that was hit, to Masser his friend, for even though if in this case, the person that was hit does Masser, there are those opinions which exempt him from (ãéðé àãí) Judgment from man, because a person isn’t (”ðúôñ òì öòøå”) [Baba Bathra 16: Raba said: This teaches that a man is not held responsible for what he says when in distress[. Still (ìëúçéìä) to begin with it is forbidden to according to everyone and he is a Mosser (if he does).
And even if you have a violent Jew, and he doesn’t want to go to Bais Din, it is forbidden to go to the authorities to force him to come to a Din Torah, until you receive permission from Bais Din, also to force him through the means of Goyim to fulfill the Psak (Halachik Ruling) of Bais din, it is forbidden till you have consent from Bais Din.
(7) Someone that Masser’s it is permitted to kill him, in any place, and at any time, even in today’s time, even before he actually Masser’s, like if he says “I’m going to Masser on someone either on his actual body or money etc…” he has permitted himself to death, and we warn him, and we tell him: Do not Masser. If he has Chutzpa and says no, I’m going to Masser anyways, it is a Mitzva (commandment) to kill him, and whoever is first in doing so, the merit is his.
For someone that goes to Masser money of a Jew into the hands of Goyim, it’s as if he’s “chasing” (''øåãó'') after his soul. And if someone is “chasing” (''øåãó'') after your friend to kill him, it is allowed to save him (your friend), by killing the killer (Mosser).
And if there is no opportunity to warn him (the Mosser), you do not need to warn him. However if you can save the victim by hurting the killer (Mosser), for example by cutting off his tongue, or to poke out his eyes, then it’s forbidden to kill him (the Mosser).
(8) If the Mosser followed thought with his plot (of Messira), it is forbidden to kill him, unless he’s “assumed in Messira”, which means he has done Messira three times, then you can kill for he may continue to Mosser on others. It is forbidden to destroy the money of a Mosser by hand, meaning by physical action, or through Messira to Goyim, even though it’s permitted to destroy his body (by killing him). For his money is fit for his inheritors. However it’s permitted to cause him lose of money, because since his body is void (äô÷ø) so is his money, and for sure you don’t have to pick up his lost item to return to him. However it is forbidden to take the Mosser’s money for yourself (even if it’s something that the Mosser lost) since it is fit for his inheritors.
There are those who say that a Mosser has the law of a Mumar (îåîø) to the whole Torah (see Rambam Laws of Repentance, Chapter 3, law 9, for what a Mumar for the whole Torah is). And if you find the Mosser’s lost object it is yours and is forbidden to return it to him….
(9) Someone that’s assumed as a Mosser, and it seems that the only reason why his words are heard is because of his money, meaning he is rich, and if he would be poor his words will not be heard, it is permitted to destroy (ìàáã) his money, or to Masser on him to Goyim, for with this you are saving other people from this Mosser’s Messira.
It's ludicrous to think that one should protect a molester from a legal system, while allowing children to be harmed by him! It's this kind of thinking that t hese program are addressing. By posting this block of text you continue the aveira of protecting a rodef while allowing victims to accrue.
2) Bronya, you are impressive. The sheer number of hours you have put in to organizing these events to enlighten the community and protect the children!
3) IYH all these comments make me think there is going to be a magnificent turnout. That is exciting B"H
His talk about Mesira is a non-issue as proven by his own words.
In his own words, someone who hits and is violent and there is no way to stop him you may Moser him according to Shulchan Aruch.
All Pedophiles are 100% unstoppable.
It's a proven established fact.
All Pedophiles are SICK IN TH HEAD and there is no cure this mental illness.
It is 100% for sure that they will continue their immoral “hitting” (abuse) and hurting children in a way which is worse than killing children.
Throwing them in jail does not cure their disease it only stops them (for the time being) from doing it until they are eventually let out of jail, when they will once again continue the same thing they did before going to jail.
There is no question about it and all Rabbonim agree that a Pedophile should be reported to Police since there is absolutely no other way on earth, to be able to stop this diseased man from hurting more children.
You are wasting time if you claim we need not go to Police because there is no way on earth to stop abuse any other way. It is 100% physically impossible to stop such sick people any other way.
Question:
May we or must we report a Pedophile to Police?
ANSWER:
Halacha not only permits but MANDATES that we MUST Masser upon someone who is himself already a Moser.
see comment # 47 item # 6 paragraph 4
The reason we may kill or maser on someone who is a Moser is because he has a din Rodef.
The facts are that all Pedophiles are all repeat offenders and what they do is constant perpetual abuse and there is no way to stop them except by locking them up or else they continue their abuse.
Therefore all Rabbonim agree that it is not only permitted to Moser a Pedophile to police but it is OBLIGATORY to report him to police because a Pedophile not only has a "Din Rodef", he actually is a Rodef, constantly abusing children non-stop and is unstoppable unless he is locked up.
Any Menahel who covers up and does not report a Pedophile, has a Din Rodef himslef and it is permissible and obligatory to report this Menahel to Police for his own crimes of covering up Pedophiles in his Mosad.
Lucky, indeed... before her, I was in my mid-30's, living in a place called, Norcross, GA - where Yiddishkite is gornisht (please give tzedakah/support to shaliach, Rabbi Lerman in his monumental efforts there).
In my personal life, even after much exposure from generous shluchim, I knew and practiced nothing - for example, I still didn't know basics such as birkat hamazon, asher yatzer, kashrut, kiddush, havdalah... gornisht.
And here I was yearning to have a Jewish home and be a Jewish husband, father - be a man... How?! Because there were few Jewish single women in my area, I went on Sawyouatsinai.com (SYAS) - was too frum for my level, I was totally intimidated and inadequate..
Jretromatch.com (a site owned by SYAS) is where I met my wife (thank G-d).
Rabbi Lerman, who is still "my Norcrosser Rebbe:)," - even though I no longer live in GA - shared with me two important main ideas related to me dating my current wife: 1) "a Jew is a Jew" and 2) already in my mid-30's, I'm "not going to get any better."
Yes, he was talking about the quality of single women my age not improving. BUT, now (3.5 years later), I also see deeper into what he said - "I'M not going to get any better" was, in my opinion, more about where my life (that is, my prospects of having a Jewish home) was going the longer I stayed single and "self-centered".
Thanks for connecting, Rishe, and have a good Shabbos. I'll think of this message after saying asher yatzer, davening, making kiddush (yes, me making:)), giving a drash, saying birkat and davening before shluff.
It's good to be "home," thank G-d.
Yes, the psychologist helped me, but it was like a doctor who helps a child who has a loving and caring mother to find the right doctor and to talk to him about the issues.
With hashem's help let us hope that no child will ever suffer like so many of us victims , or rather survivors.
I hope you do not mind some 'friendly fire'
I agree with all that you wrote, but I take exception to this pargraph:
"This seminar will be a tremendous Kidush Hashem because it will show the secular world that we are not afraid to confront the challenges that our community faces – and in fact every community faces"
Permit me to rewrite it
This seminar will be a tremendous Kidush Hashem because {we are}finally{going to} confront the challenges that our community faces
"showing the secular world that we are not afraid to confront...." is a to weak of reason here. when our childrens lives are at risk.
From what I have seen in our community,25% is no big exagregation,. Of course, I did not conduct a scientific study, but unfortunately our community and the frum communities do not seem to be different than the national average.
There is even a extreemly professional helpline for frum victim of any form of abuse. It is manned by caring professional frum people from Chassidish, Litvish and Lubavitch people (from CH).
They are discreet and confidental. They offer ounselling, intervention and even legal help. They are caring people who volunteer their time, just like the members of Hatzolah.
If you or anyone you know was abused, please call them
It is not your fault, the shame is not yours, it is theirs!
If you are abused, you are not alone.They will help you.
Abusers have a free reign, if nothing is done to stop them, (according to what I read) they will abuse apround 80 victims.
Many of the victims, rebel against the system or their parents, some drop out of school. Some cannot function
well in life, At lease one of the suicides that you heard about was as a direct result of abuse.
Parents, teachers, askonim, this is serious, please do the math, if you have
a classroom of 25 beautiful kids, there may be 4 or 5 that are abused!! This is scary and shocking, and your child may be a victim!
I would put the phone number down to enable anyone to call, but unfortunately I cant find it anywhere. (Can someone please help?)
This number should be posted in every classroom and listed on every bulletin. If you are in teh printing or advertising business, and you are printing a fridge magnet newsletter or magazine, I beg you, please print the number of the help line, You may save a life!
It is a project of Beth Israel Hospital
Who are we?
We are an emotional support helpline for Orthodox Jewish survivors of ______ abuse. We help, support, listen, and provide resources to any person who chooses to call us. We are anonymous, confidential, and don't have caller-ID. The helpline is open Monday-Thursday 9:30am-5:30pm and Friday 9:30am-1:30pm. The phone number is 212.844.1495. We are under the auspices of the Victims Services Program of Beth Israel Medical Center.
Who answers the phone?
The helpline is answered by trained volunteers. Our volunteers have gone through a 40+ hour training program focused on the dynamics of *l abuse in the secular and Orthodox communities, childhood * abuse and *, healthcare and legal protocol, post-traumatic stress disorder, * harassment, domestic violence, suicide, and how to recommend appropriate resources. All of our volunteers are Orthodox women. All of our volunteers are supervised by licensed social workers who have extensive experience in dealing with these issues.
Who calls the helpline?
We receive calls from men, women, teenagers, and children who have survived any type of * abuse, ........, ......... harassment, emotional abuse, or domestic violence. We have received calls from every type of religious background and from many different communities.
What happens when I call?
You will be immediately connected with a trained volunteer who will listen to you, support you, and help you with what you need. She will also be able to give you information about other resources that can help you. All calls are strictly confidential and anonymous. We don't have caller-ID.
When can I call?
The helpline is open Monday-Thursday 9:30am-5:30pm and Friday 9:30am-1:30pm. If you call outside those hours, you have the option of leaving your first name and telephone number and a volunteer counselor will return your call as soon as possible. In your message please let us know when it is a safe time to call you back.