Dec 15, 2010
Are We Ever Ready to Marry?

What does a 23 year old bochur think about dating? One bochur writes what he thought about Manis Friedman's lecture on today's shidduch crisis Tuesday evening.

Editor's note: This article was written by a 23 year-old bochur who requested to stay anonymous in order to have the freedom to say what needs to be said, and hence give a better perspective to people.

By Anonymous

Last night it was bitterly cold outside, but Rabbi Manis Friedman was heating things up with a lecture here in Crown Heights. The topic was: "Is there a shidduch crisis?” I attended in order to tell COLlive readers what a 23 year-old bochur thinks and feels about this hot and current topic. What is going through our minds? Wouldn’t you like to know?

There are many guys and girls looking to get married. It isn't easy to try so hard for so long. It's painful, and I am sure many lose lots of sleep over it. So what is the root of the problem? Where is the problem stemming from, and why now, in 2010, is the problem peaking?

There were several points that Rabbi Friedman mentioned which are so true, yet we all suffer from it and fail to recognize it as a problem.

"Instead of worrying who you’re going to marry, we used to worry how we are going to marry."

Can't we all relate to that? Don't we all say we want someone to be a certain height or weight? Or we want the family to have a certain amount of means

The problem, Rabbi Manis was telling the crowd, is that singles are looking to marry the perfect girl, instead of looking to simply get married.

"Our focus is blurred and our fundamentals have changed. It used to be that 'I want to get married.' Once you had that in mind, you would find someone suitable. Now it's more like "I'm not ready to get married, but if I find this amazing girl then I will marry her."

He said that in the secular world it is not about marriage being holy or a necessity. "Just because you found a nice girl, that is not a reason to get married, besides for the fact that there is no such thing as the perfect girl. You get married because it is the right thing to do and because it is sacred."

"We have to put marriage on the front burner."

He said: "You need to get married, and in order to do that you find the right person. We have to be focused on the important things. For example: What kind of a home am I going to have; What kind of values am I going to teach my children, how will I raise them to be good? Those were the concerns."

Now let me tell you, I am guilty of all things mentioned so far, and all of the rest of the things I am going to write. I have not been on a date yet, but I know that I think with the wrong thought process.

In my mind the most candid statement of the lecture was: "A lot of people are honest enough to say, 'What would my friend say if I marry her?' Instead of thinking what is best for me, people are busy thinking what others will say, which will eventually lead to comparing wives. Whether it is about who is better looking, or who's more popular. That happens when you are marrying a girl. If you are marrying your bashert then there is nothing to compare. Would a woman then say 'maybe I should marry her husband?' No way. Because you know this is the right person for me, this is who was destined for me, and that is all there is to it."

This is an idea I have never heard anyone verbalize before, but now that Rabbi Friedman said it, it is glaringly obvious. We have to focus on the right thing.

"You'll never be ready enough for marriage."

He said: "Partly because of society, we have changed what we are supposed to be looking for. No matter what the cause is, the fact is that our priorities have changed. But if marriage is the goal then it's much easier to find the right person."

Truth is, when I think about marriage it’s about "What will she look like? What will others think? Let me wait until I am ready."

I hate to say this because I have disagreed with this idea until last night, that "if you think you are ready then you are most definitely not, and it can be reckless."

My question is, if the fact that our focus has shifted is such a widespread issue, then how is it solved? Rabbi Friedman's answer was that the parents have to instill the proper values in their children.

However, how do the people who are looking to get married now shift their focus back to the right way? I think these novel ideas and realizations have to be publicized and talked about.

I know guys talk about marriage, how much more so girls are talking about marriage.

Why not talk about these topics? Why can't friends talk to each other how I want to find the one who was destined to be for me? Not about what type of job he or she will have, or what he or she will look like.

"If he's tall then he's tall, there is nothing you can do about it.”

It is definitely hard to think that way, and actually internalize that. Once people start talking about it and thinking more about it, it will become more of a widespread feeling.

There was an article on COLlive a couple of months ago about parents wanting to organize classes to teach singles in the Chabad community about relationships and marriage.

Why is that so pertinent and important? Because especially us guys, have zero education when it comes to this topic. We know nothing about it. How are we supposed to know anything of the sort? Now that I think about it, with the lack of knowledge in this topic, it is easier for the wrong ideas and focus to creep into our minds.

Knowledge is power. There is a major need for guys and girls to attend classes about what our focus should be comprised of, relationships, and what marriage is about. That would be a great step in the right direction towards maintaining the proper ideas and mentality for finding "The right one." A.K.A. The destined one.

I’m far from perfect, and I will have to work on myself regarding all of this, but knowing the problem is half the solution.

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Opinions and Comments
1
wow!
amazing! so well written, and so true!
(12/15/2010 3:25:45 PM)
2
Disappointed
I'm beginning to lose faith in Rabbi Manis.
I don't see any practical advice in this.
(12/15/2010 3:32:25 PM)
3
Ha maiseh hu ha ikur
so when is the first class?
(12/15/2010 3:36:00 PM)
4
sorry
you are 23, never been on a date, you sound young and fresh and eager. Half of what you wrote here is nothing new, and to the burned out- 'been there done that' - 27 year old, well they just cant relate.

get back to me when you have dated for 6 years straight..err well rather hopefully you wont have to.
(12/15/2010 3:36:47 PM)
5
To 4
It happens to be that some of this stuff is not said enough. It is unfortunate that you are burned out. But if all the people who you went out with, and yourself included, thought the right way, I think you would be in a different situation now. But hey, who knows?
(12/15/2010 3:44:22 PM)
6
Adding age to the mix
Assuming that we all have the right attitudes, there still is an issue: There are more girls than boys. With each passing year the population grows. The girls were born a few years later than the boys they are dating. There are therefore more of them. How bad would it be if we parents would feel just fine if the boys and girls were around the same age? They say girls mature earlier. So what? At the age we tend to get married, we are all young relative to life experience, and certainly have no marriage experience. A boy and girl of the same age will grow and mold themselves together. In later years the maturity difference disappears. Furthermore, with the attitudes such as Rabbi Mannis is suggesting, age would make no difference at all. (FYI The Rebbitzin was one year older than the Rebbe). I'd like to see some comments on this point amidst this important discussion.
(12/15/2010 3:52:04 PM)
7
To a 23 y/o who hasn't been on a single date:
Sorry kid, write as well as you want and use the all the fancy words you can find, good luck finding any agreement and/or respect from anyone who has been in the dating scene for a while now.

Dating is not easy and can be painful if not frustrating at the very least least, so you little pisher with your fancy writing as if you its so simple and you already have it all figured out from going to one inspiring lecture is not going to get much praise.

Kudos to you though for working on yourself and trying to ready yourself for marriage by going to lectures pre dating (if that was indeed your intentions, unless you were just hoping to get a nice juicy article which you can then anonymously post on COL and get respect from it somehow)
(12/15/2010 3:52:17 PM)
8
to the parents
there is a big problem out there

the problem is that the parents are the ones looking for the boys and not being realistic who the girls really


for the girls who say they are looking for a guy who dose not wear jeans or he learnt smicah (its all coming form the parents)

its time the parents to let up and look at who there daughters are let the girls have the say if they don't mind if the guy wears jeans or had smiach


we are leaving in a new world smicah today is not what it was back in the 60 or 70 or 80 to day its a lot different


guys today are working guys and yes some do wear jeans

p.s to the parents once again you need to be more lenient on things
(12/15/2010 3:53:54 PM)
9
?? confused
Im a bit confused.
You get married because it is the right thing to do and because it is sacred."
What is that supposed to mean??
That you should just get married because its holy??
There is no doubt that marriage is sacred but it doesn't take away from the fact that a person needs to marry someone that is right for him / her. They cannot just get married to anyone - because its important to get married...
I don't understand what he was trying to say but it didnt come out so well...
(12/15/2010 3:54:52 PM)
10
Age
No one is opposed to the age. In fact many people do date people their age. The topic at hand is what are the guys and girls focus? Is it to get married? Or is it to find a nice girl. Worry about marriage, not about who it will be. You date to discern if the boy or girl is right for you.
(12/15/2010 3:57:46 PM)
11
Rabbi Manis Friedman was spot on
By coincidence I was in town interviewing many bochurim and girls for shidduch purposes when I heard Rabbi Manis Friedman would be lecturing. I decided to attend and I think he hit the nail on the head because I see it daily. His poignant point: Are you getting married? Are you seeking a husband/wife? Do you understand what it entails to be entering into a marriage relationship? are questions that are not priorities by many. It is common today for young adults to date for mulitple months more than 20 times yet they are no closer to getting married because that never was the original goal. As a result, it eventually fizzles out.
Interesting to note but not surprised the women's section in attendance doubled if not tripled the men's section.
Where are the fathers?
Where are the single bochurim? (few did attend but scarcely)
I am encouraged that the writer seeks to be guided and desires to learn how to focus on the "how" and not just the "why". Unfortunately, the majority of bochurim feel it below their dignity or embarrassing to address these issues.
I encounter bochurim who are wary of those setting up shidduchim with ulterior motives.
Bochurim who have encountered "dating boredom".
Bochurim who are great on mivtzoim yet when dating feel intimidated.
The solution that I emphasis with everyone I deal with is HOW to be proactive and HOW to take positive steps as Rabbi Manis Friedman and the author indicated to learn and focus on the "HOW" of getting married.

There is no crisis if we do our part genuinely - the Aibeshter will definitely do His.

Rabbi Moishe Raitman - ShadchanCoach.com
(12/15/2010 4:06:16 PM)
12
RIDICULOUS
....."The problem, Rabbi Manis was telling the crowd, is that singles are looking to marry the perfect girl, instead of looking to simply get married".......

Are you serious Rabbi Manis?

You are telling Bochurim, that in making the most important decision of our lives, a lifetime commitment, we shouldn't carefully scrutinize our decision?

What a preposterous proposition!
(12/15/2010 4:07:20 PM)
13
Sarit
Marriage freaks me out. I see so many couples who lose the love and don't have holy homes that I'm just not rushing into things. I think that when I date someone I think will be a good husband, I will be ready to get married.
(12/15/2010 4:11:11 PM)
14
The Author sounds clueless
start dating a little and you well get an idea of the real world
(12/15/2010 4:24:19 PM)
15
To 14
For all those people who are set on their way and are burned out. Then go happily in your way. For the rest of the people who are interested in learning and changing, good for you!
(12/15/2010 4:29:40 PM)
16
SHADCHANIM LIE
shadchanim have 1 goal; to make the shiduch happen. whether OR not the two are right for each other. they lie. they dont pass on messages or feelings accurately. Intentionaly. thay dont care if both people wake up every day for the next 70 years wishing they had died in their sleep. thay lie. shame on them.
(12/15/2010 4:37:14 PM)
17
To #12
Obviously research should go into the process and people shouldnt get married before they know that its a good decision. I think what was meant by that statements was that people now are focusing too much on the details that dont make or break a marriage--such as looks, money, etc. The perfect girl (or guy for that matter) is not the basis of a marriage... Look to find the person you can build a good strong jewish and chassidish home with...not the person who could pass for a model their spare time...
(12/15/2010 4:42:36 PM)
18
Too much to chose from?
I wonder if Rabbi Friedman addressed the fact that many years ago Lubavitch was much smaller. When Rabbi Manis got married in the 1960s, there were perhaps several dozen available girls to consider. Today there are literally hundreds of marriageable aged girls/boys available. It could be a full time job just finding all the names. Nevermind researching each one of them. This also causes a lot of indecision even following the proper focus the Rabbi speaks of (i.e. have I really considered ALL my options? Perhaps there's someone else on the other side of the world that's more suitable)...

Shiduchim is certainly a difficult problem with many complexities.
(12/15/2010 4:43:48 PM)
19
Oh Really??
Really? a 23 year old guy wrote this? Its great that you are 23 and have "been trying so hard for so long" (and yet never been on a date).

Hey Mr. - unless you started "working on this" when you were 17, you havent been working on it even remotely close to as long as some of us out there. keep your inexperienced and foolish comments to yourself.
(12/15/2010 4:43:53 PM)
20
In appreciation
Thank you. was unable to attend for I don't like in CH, and I really appreciate the thoughfulness of sharing what was spoken of.
(12/15/2010 4:48:34 PM)
21
to all parents
smicha is a joke today everyone and anybody can get it .its all money under the table.get real people,parents make sure he is a mentch first good midos !!!!!
(12/15/2010 4:50:10 PM)
22
as milebt mit torah
Our values haskofos are of. A bochur who is involved in doing the correct thing thruout his yeshiva years and is emotionally stable, they dont have these ridiculous ideas. most bochurim that are 26,27,-29 are looking for what?? it's a game they are like the hunter ,trap them and then disgard them . A true yeshiva Bochur vos tut vos men darf un Tracht vos men darf un horevt oif zich 95% are married
they dont look ,Think dos vos Mdarf nisht . You can farbreing or even work and have shiurim , but your out for lunch you need a mashpia lern a bissel chaisdis , vestu shlophen besser. Dont try to be so sofisticated
(12/15/2010 4:54:58 PM)
23
mendel
all I can say is, WOW , I am a parent in my late 40's with children to marry off ,even more so amazing, we all need to know the way you all see things, the way you express yourself is what we as parents and shadchonim need to hear, Why don't you get together a few guys and a group of girls to give lectures to groups of shadchonim through Rabbi Mannis and start teaching them where you'r all holding, maybe that might be a start.
(12/15/2010 4:55:21 PM)
24
I was there....
It was great, inspiring and entertaining to here Rabbi Manis speak and bring out some good points. However, one thing really bothered me about the speech, the fact that he does not have to back up his statements with facts.

How can he comfortably make a statement "everyone will find their bashert"? Although, I understand that for many or most they will and it will do them better if they didn't worry. However, how does that work for the ever growing minority?

Yes, it's nice to sound encouraging to people and to turn a blind eye but sometimes you need to look at the facts and find a solution.

He did not claim to, or actually do either.
(12/15/2010 4:56:44 PM)
25
I WAS THERE
I was at the event last night and the writer is totally, 1000% on target, as was Manis Friedman. Al tistakel b'kankan -- this fellow has never been on a date, but he got it. (And I've been married for 30 years.) And Rabbi Friedman didn't say not to scrutinize the person and family before you date -- he said to make your lists, but not to rely on them as if they were written in stone, because your bashert might be different in some ways than you expected. A girl swears she'll never marry a redhead, and then she winds up marrying one -- does this mean her parents didn't check out the boy properly? Not exactly! It means she was focusing on finding a guy with whom to build a good Jewish home and family, conducted with the right values, in a way that will work for her, so she paid more attention to the essentials and less attention to his hair color, or what they will do for fun, or how they will look together when they walk down the street, or whether his job will be prestigious enough, or what people will think, etc. This business of 'what my friends will think' can be a big problem. I promise you, singles out there, that within two days after you're engaged, nobody will give a hoot who you got engaged to, how attractive they are, how much money they have, how popular they are, or any of that. Ultimately, when you get married, you go home with that person, close the door behind you, and just the two of you are there, and nobody else cares. So they'd better be a good, kind, caring person with good values that you respect, because nothing else really matters. It sounds hard to believe, but it's absolutely true. Don't go for superficial "glitz" and then find yourself deeply disappointed later.
(12/15/2010 4:59:42 PM)
26
To Number 17
Physical attraction and parnassa don't matter? Really?
Are you saying I should go marry a bochur whom I am not attracted to, and who will not be able to support our family because these are just small details that don't make or break a marriage?
Thanks, but no thanks.

.
(12/15/2010 5:01:23 PM)
27
attn #22
your a moron
(12/15/2010 5:03:06 PM)
28
mendel
# 22
am afraid you are wright, in the perfect chasidishe world, but your not in the perfect world, we need to understand our youth to help
(12/15/2010 5:08:33 PM)
29
to #4, #7, #23
wonder why you are not married? have you listened to yourselves speak? you bash a young person, for no reason whatsoever, simply because he voiced an opinion you disagree with. you do it in a degrading, nasty, hurtful manner.
oh, my bad, YOU are the 'mature' ones, and he is the 'baby'.
just a few simple rules in life would take us all a lot further:
be nice.
be polite.
don't hate on others
that said, you all sound frustrated and hurt and i can relate to that. dating scene can be trying, painful, and discouraging.
keep your spirits up - you WILL get there eventually. Hashem truly does have someone for everyone, He wants us to find our 'basherts'.
Rabbi Friedman is being misunderstood, he did not say 'marry anyone, it is only important to get married', i think what he is saying is that if we get back to the holiness inside the issue (i.e. marrying because it is what OUR CREATOR wants us to do, the right thing) and then approach each shiddach as a good potential unless and until it is ruled out for a VALID reason, we have much better chance to see it positively.
if we say I am 22 years old and who is the 'best' girl/guy i can go out with, and i have a list a mile long of what i want and need (cause i am so in tune with my needs and my desires and my value.... lol) then we will be alone for a good long time.
Focus on doing the right thing, and then goodness and blessings come your way. focus on selfishness and being spoiled, and allowing 'dating' to become this lowly activity (sharing info with friends, checking people out, judging appearances before meeting, etc.etc.etc.) and you are taking the 'external' and making it the 'essential'.
the core of shidduchim is MARRIAGE. marrying, because that is the thing to do at this stage in life, in order to fulfill G-d's will. then the 'right' person WILL come to you.
(12/15/2010 5:09:29 PM)
30
att. 22
22 is right
(12/15/2010 5:12:22 PM)
31
mendel
# 16
you might have a point, someone has to be employed on a sallery and someone that truly cares for todays youth and not for profit making
(12/15/2010 5:15:47 PM)
32
Los Angeles women's shidduch group
There is a core group of women in Los Angeles who are dedicated to help singles in California. They are open to speaking with different city groups or individuals about singles from other cities(Montreal,Chicago,Miami.....)
Their e-mail contact info is SNLA770@gmail .com
(Shidduch Network of Los Angeles)
(12/15/2010 5:17:12 PM)
33
agree
amazing -- so true!
(12/15/2010 5:21:40 PM)
34
#12
I agree with you entirely! The idea that I should marry simply to get married and give up the search in finding the “perfect” person for me seems ridiculously old school. I am absolutely fed up with older people imposing their inadvertent and shtetelesk ideas on me ! Young people, actually think for themselves, and , without a doubt, know that just because there is a crisis does not mean they should EVER have to compromise their happiness!
(12/15/2010 5:25:23 PM)
35
atten.27
I am not a moron but I know that the truth hurts;you think thath your so learnt and sofisticated and evenmay have a parnosa and daven and learn but yu guy missed the whoe bunch line. or u didnt miss it but der Emes Tut Vei yove made yourselves a clob in all yur little shus that spring up and you think that what makes you hollly Eir zuchnt nechtigen schnei
(12/15/2010 5:30:40 PM)
36
Great article!
Great article! thanks so much!
(12/15/2010 5:40:50 PM)
37
sounds right
Sounds like Manis Friedman is on the right track but sadly, seeing many comments here, the young (or not so young) people are not. Not only do they disagree, but many are quite nasty. Maybe that's why they're still single.

For those who think M.F is out of touch and old-fashioned and that the modern approach of singles events and years of dating are the way to go, please don't whine to us about a crisis. You think your way is the right way at 27 and 37? Enjoy singledom.
(12/15/2010 5:44:17 PM)
38
mendel
#35
i think the venom you have, is a big part of today's situation
(12/15/2010 5:44:22 PM)
39
R Friedman's Facebook Page says:
This is from R. Friedmans facebook page / Rabbi Manis Friedman: Love is not an important consideration in marriage; even when the love is not there, you cannot just walk off. Marriage is about becoming one with another person. That is why divorce is terrible. Just because you do not like how your leg is, does not mean you go ahead and amputate it. Being married does not make you friends. It makes you ONE.

17 hours ago · Like · Comment
(12/15/2010 5:44:44 PM)
40
I got married because it was the right thing to do....
....and I looked for the IMPORTANT things - Midos -Yiras Shomayim...15 plus years later, I can say - that is the ONLY way to go.

I did not get married because I liked his style (hated his glasses) or his looks, ( he was ok, cute - but no stud), or was cool etc - he was just a hardworking, intelligent, chassidishe bochur that was aidel and nice.

And 15 plus years later, I can say - we are the best of friends, finish each others sentences, respect each other, and are truly in love.

Manis is on the money. Love comes from marriage, not before marriage - before marriage it is about what is in it for ME, what is good for ME.

After marriage, you learn to make it a WE.

Lust fades, love stays. Loves comes after because of what you do for each other. With every kind act, you build a brick of love. Putting your needs aside for the other, builds a brick of love. Giving of yourself, even when you are not in the mood, buiilds a brick of love.

And then, with time, brick by brick, you have a house of love and happiness, a house where Hashem feels comfortable to reside.

So, in short Manis is right on. And to all you prospective suitors out there; Eizeh Hoo Chachom, Halomed Mikol Adom.

Dont dismiss something because it does not reflect your worldview. The information gained may build your world.
(12/15/2010 5:51:38 PM)
41
Interesting...
I was reading this and found this quite interesting... I am young still, and my teacher actually brought this up in class today... there are some people who are just looking for "the perfect one", but is the person only basing this decision on the way the person looks? There are some really nice people who have EXCELLENT Middos, but they don't necessarily look so pretty/ handsome... In my opinion, people should look at the Neshama (like it says in Perek Lamed Beis in Tanya) and then one may truly come to love someone... There are some people who are older already and are not getting engaged, since people don't want to go out with older people... I know it may be hard, but we should try to look at the person for who they are inside, and not necessarily base our decision on the persons outside...
(12/15/2010 5:52:37 PM)
42
Go 29!
This is amazing! a young man writes what he is taking out of a lecture and look at half these comments of put downs and name calling at him and Rabbi Friedman. Everyone is entitled to their feelings but this is rediculous. I agree with 29.
goo luck
(12/15/2010 5:53:02 PM)
43
to #34
I've helped many friends/family through the Shidduch process and I have a little secret for you - THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS THE PERFECT SPOUSE! How's that for old school? If/when you get married, you WILL compromise on something. I GUARANTEE it. The sooner you recognize this, the sooner you'll get married.

So what are you willing to compromise on? How about if you found someone that was otherwise perfect but wasn't the most attractive? Not good enough? What if he/she was attractive but dumb as a doorknob? Work better for you?

Rabbi Friedman’s point is that you should compromise on things that are not (or shouldn't be) essential in a marriage, and never compromise on what is (or should be) essential. Speak to your parents/Mashpia to figure out which is which.

Good luck and Bsuros Tovos B'korov!
(12/15/2010 6:05:17 PM)
44
From bad and good experiences
Marry someone who suits you and you suit him/her. Marry someone you want to be with for the rest of your life. Marry someone who shares at least some of the same interests you do aside from Torah. Marry someone down to earth. Marry someone you won't constantly need to be compromising with, wiith neither of you happy.
(12/15/2010 6:05:46 PM)
45
My opinion
I rarly post on Collive but i just want to say my opinion. I think that the people who get married a bit later than the everage tend to have a more relaxed marrige with not so much self image cause they are more mature. If you get married at 20 years old im sure you found the right person but you are still not old enough to understand that you marry who you want not else wise. For an example, if you live in a very frum community and where if you get a job after marriage e people think you are........ there is no need to worry about what people think. If you are going to have an unhappy marriage marrying someone who is going to go out on shlichus then dont. And i feel the older singles make a wiser choice on who there marrying.

Also, when people say im so old and still not married it means there not ready. And if someone lives there whole life without getting married it means they were too imature their whole life for the stage of marriage. The other option is that they arent just trying so hard.

It used to be that when you got back from seminary you started dating a that year. Now people wait a long time. Now im not contradicting myself because once again: once you get rid of that self image stuff you should find a shidduch right away!. There are some singles that are FULLY MATURE RIGHT AFTER SEMINARY AND THEY WAIT BECAUSE THEY THINK OTHERWISE. They go to teaching seminary or otheriwise.
Hope this helped the supposedly "SHIDDUCH RISES"
(12/15/2010 6:09:52 PM)
46
We've lost the true hashkofos
If our community looked less upon family stature, financial stability, hierarchy and the like, our children would be far better equipped to date appropriately and choose suitable marriage partners. If we want our children to marry with the goal of building homes al taharas hakodesh, why don't we show them that this is all we truly care about?
(12/15/2010 6:10:50 PM)
47
out of town shadchan
1. Is there an audio or video available of Rabbi Manis Friedman's lecture in question
2. Raboysai - there is no need to insult the young bochur/author, even if you don't agree with what he said
and I give him a Yasher Koach for his efforts
3. There does seem to be a shiduch 'crisis', otherwise it would not be mentioned in the
Pan Kloli at the Ohel or at gatherings of Anash
4. I agree with the pyramid theory (that bochurim have more girls to choose from) and therefore (maybe) they lose perspective
5. I think that many young men are very concerned about parnoso and are delaying getting married
(12/15/2010 6:27:12 PM)
48
Solution:
Every single person should take Rabbi Hertzel's Shidduchim Bihalacha class which focuses on every single point that was ever mentioned on this blog using actual sources and structured thinking. It is amazing and essential learning material for boys and girls. It teaches everything there is to say on the subject from the original sources- Torah, Gemara, hashkafa, Chassidus, Rebbe's letters etc.
Thanks to the class I now know if shidduchim are bashert or bechira chafshis and where meforshim differ in their opinions, what the torah says about prepartion for marriage, age of marriage, smicha or college before marriage, how to make a marriage last, what I can do about it and so much more.
TAKE THE CLASS AND ANSWER ALL THE QUESTIONS ONCE AND FOR ALL. Torah give its opinion about everything find out what it is from the source.
(12/15/2010 6:30:59 PM)
49
Religiousanomosity
So well written, all the haters stop, if he would not have mentioned his age or dating history,
what would u say then?

respect his honesty, I am 26 and been dating for a while and completely relate to what he is writing, very impressive
(12/15/2010 6:34:49 PM)
50
Very well said
Good for you,
(12/15/2010 6:39:55 PM)
51
stud?
#40 writes about her husband, "cute - but no stud". Where does a woman who says she married a chassidishe bochur come off using such lishonos?!
(12/15/2010 6:55:07 PM)
52
TO# 22
I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE YOU. YOU ARE COOL,AND I'LL BET YOU HAVE GR8 KIDS. YOUR HEAD IS SKEWED ON TIGHT AND IS IN THE RIGHT PLACE] YASHAR CHOIACH!!!!!!
(12/15/2010 6:56:32 PM)
53
To # 35
common! stop being close-minded and sick. Something is wrong in your OTDDS mind that you cannot understand simple life. Every human being is different, chassidish or not, a chassidish boy may be not married due to his family name, while a not chassidish boy (with a prestigious family tree) would be happily married. The pint is not chassidish or not! the match is made in heaven, B4 YOU WERE BORN, so if one becomes a little chilled in his teenage years, his bashert is still the same girl and he will marry who he is supposed to. G-d is in charge of this, we just have to make a vessel. How? by being your true self. No that does not mean to be a plastic chassidishe bochur, it means you have to be the best you can be. Every person is put on earth with his own purpose, and with his own destiny. You, # 35, have NO RIGHT to tell someone why they aren't married and to blame it on the fact they aren't something someone else wants them to be. Did anyone tell YOU something happened to you because you did something wrong?! That is a terrible perspective an opinion! comepletely ridiculous and inexperienced.
please try and understand.
(12/15/2010 6:57:09 PM)
54
COMPLETELY MESSED UP
I only have one comment. Mannis Friedman has children... tell me how many people he turned down for his kids that werent from the right family or have the right amount of money. He is deffinitely looking at the little things as well!! Its human nature to want the best and find the most compatible person for you... So dont be hating on the guys and girls that cant find their match right away. Its a very difficult process which I hope you never have to go through!
(12/15/2010 6:58:57 PM)
55
#43
I agree there is no such thing as the perfect spouse, yet, at the same time Im just looking for someone who is “perfect” for me. And when I write about never compromising on ones happiness ,that is not parallel to compromising on the boy I choose, it means not settling on things that are meaningful to me . Please don’t patronize by assuming I want someone who is attractive and would settle despite the fact that he is “dumb as a doorknob”, this example seems to imply that you don’t understand half the people you are helping through the shidduch process. More little secrets are always welcome ;)
(12/15/2010 7:01:55 PM)
56
get married
you 23 year old should get married before you tell others what to do or think mabe after you get married you will relize the truth i have dated meny times i dont think these thots i just think i need to get marrid by the age 30
(12/15/2010 7:06:56 PM)
57
MALE BASHING
IT IS NOT UNCOMMON TO CONSTANTLY HEAR HOW GUYS ARE CLUELESS AND SHALLOW AND....... I COULD GO ON AND ON HOW MUCH RIDICULE IS POINTED TOWARDS GUYS.

SHMULY BOTEACH HAS BEEN QUITE AN ADVOCATE OF THIS POSITION THAT THE AMERICAN MALE IS VERY SHALLOW.

DENNIS PRAGER BEING ONE OF THE MOST INFLUENTIAL TALK SHOW HOSTS OF THE COUNTRY TOOK ON SHMULY BOTEACH IN A DEBATE ON THIS ISSUE, AND FOR ONCE YOU CAN HEAR A SERIOUS APPROACH AND PERSPECTIVE ON BOTH SIDES OF THIS ISSUE.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE PEOPLE TO VIEW THIS DEBATE 5 PART VIDEO http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8660906537484001607#docid=-8676952075716773317

MAYBE ITS NOT A ONE SIDED PROBLEM
(12/15/2010 7:09:26 PM)
58
i was turned oway
i was told that the girl dose not want to go out with me bec (i new) she went out with my cuz a few weeks before yes it was not for him but im a little difrint then he is but thats the way people are learn to live some times one is not for you but give it a try
(12/15/2010 7:10:12 PM)
59
hmm...
This is all very interesting. . .

How about we look at the JEW. . . in perspective a bit before diving right into the whole marriage concept. . .

JEW - is this walking contradictional hypocritical radical. . . shifting back and forth from holy vs. impure.

Good Inclination Vs. "evil" inclination.

We walk around, with the hold Torah as our guide. . as human beings.

Having G-D, Hashem, on our minds constantly.

After all we were put here on the earth, for a purpose. . .

We are told, that, everything, EVERTHING happens for a reason.
That, we are all given obtacles and challenges through-out our entire lives...
That no one is given a task that he cant over-come,
with this in mind. . . Everything is set-up for us, the way we can handle it.
(I do not want to digress to far off into the topic of free will).

Given this small, little intro. .

Marriage. .
Besheret. .
Your "Soul Mate". . . .

Maybe, G-D has it all set-up. . . ?? maybe. . .

There is a reality that we live in that this whole concept of MARRIAGE, has been reconstructed, under the notion - regarding.. wether or not. . .should I or shouldnt I... This girl/boy, that girl/boy. . .

LEAVE IT ALONE!

It sounds like a big burden to be going through a stressful decision making process, let alone having all the exterior factors of todays society...take for example, todays modern social interactions...we live in a world which is new, flourishing information is coming from every direction you look.

And yet again, I digress. . .

The point I am looking to make here (I apologize for taking up too much of the readers time).

Is That, - Marriage, if your ready, your ready . . . If your not, your not.

There is no "Mr or Mrs RIGHT"

There is YOU, as a person. IN this world.
You do the best you can, which is the best you can do for yourself.

G-D will provide.. . . .Doesnt he always? Isnt that the idea?
You do everything that you can, and G-D will PROVIDE.
I think that means with a wife as well. . .

I'm not sure why there is all this fuss about the whole marriage idea, when Is'nt being a JEW having complete faith that G-D is taking care of you, in ALL That you do!

..maybe something to think about.

MOSHIACH is here.

Know this.

I will see you all very soon in Israel.
We will eat well and sing and dance.
Learning Torah and spreading light throughout the entire universe.

Forever.

I LOVE YOU ALL.

(I apologize for wasting anyones time, or for having this post seem a bit "long-winded", It did feel nice to get this off my chest, thank you for letting me share, thank you for taking the time to read this. .... much appreciated : )

Y
(12/15/2010 7:16:17 PM)
60
strange
message for young people. as if a color blind person is telling other people that it is silly to expect to see colors, that it is not necessary, that it is enough to see shapes.
(12/15/2010 7:20:48 PM)
61
Where are the fathers?
Where is the wisdom from previous generations - the knowledge and the WORK that's being done in OUR OWN HOMES to mentor/coach this generation? Where are the fathers, sitting down and talking to their boys at the appropriate age? Where are the examples being set IN THE HOME - so it doesn't have to come to someone else doing the parenting for them, like Rabbi Friedman (G-d bless him)?
(12/15/2010 7:22:25 PM)
62
To the not enough boys crisis
single girl, never dated before (because of the supposed crisis)
This is my line: don't ask me about my dating life, we're in a recession.
vihamayvin yuvin
(12/15/2010 7:24:22 PM)
63
to number 26
actually that is correct that money and physical attraction should be of little importance. (just look in the igros and you'll see a lot on that subject). Does the average bochur who comes out of smicha have a job? No! But the average bochur seems to be able to live a happy married life. Money is of little importance. It's your life goals and being able to implicate those goals is what's important. And that's the main thing of marriage: 2 people who have similar goals and views, which they together can implicate them and help each other out with in them. And as for looks, in the end that's not what prevails. (I'm not saying that they don't matter. But that they are of little imortance. Like in parnassah the main thing is that he is capable of providing.)
(12/15/2010 7:30:39 PM)
64
Marriage: the Ultimate COMMITMENT Outside of Yourself
You cannot intellectualize or reason matters of the heart. You just make the SACRIFICE and have EMUNAH, which, together, with your basheret, will elevate both both of you to a level of existence that you will not attain on your own. Do yourself a favor and refer to the book, "The Committed Life," by Rebbetzin Esther Jungreis. It's 19 CENTS, used, on Amazon.com. Then you pay like $5 shipping.
"Reach NOT with a full mind, reach with a full HEART." Chesed v' Emunah, l'chaim!
(12/15/2010 7:32:21 PM)
65
to #55
It's #43 here. Wasn't trying to patronize you C"V. I don't even know who you are. I was simply trying to make my point more obvious. No offense intended.

It appears that you recognize that SOME compromise(s) will be necessary ("I agree there is no such thing as the perfect spouse"), but you write "it means not settling on things that are meaningful to me". Sounds like you already agree with Rabbi Friedman. If so, you'll be fine. You probably won't become a part of the crises.

Hatzlacha and Bsuros Tovos!
(12/15/2010 7:37:15 PM)
66
its funny
20 YRS AGO NO ONE HAD TO TAKE A CLASS ON HOW TO GO ON A DATE.
MOST OF THE REMARKS HAVE NO CLUE.
MANY YRS A GO,A NON OBSERVANT JEW ASKED ME,HOWS IT POSSIBLE YOU GUYS GO OUT FOR A WEEK AND GET ENGAGED,AND WE HAVE TO GO OUT FOR YRS AND EVEN LIVE TOGETHER AND WERE STILL NOT SURE.
WELL I EXPLAINED TO HIM IN A NUTSHELL,THAT WE AS OBSERVANT(CHASSIDIC YIDDEN) KNOW HOW WE LIVE AS YIDDEN AND WHERE WE ARE GOING AS FRUM YIDDEN,SO WHEN WE GO OUT ,ITS BASICALLY TO SEE IF WE MATCH PERSONALITY WISE.
NOWADAYS,I HATE TO SAY ITS DIFFERENT.
NO ONE IS SURE WHAT KIND OF YIDDISHE LIFE THEY LIKE TO LIVE ..IN ADDITION TO ALL THE DEMANDS,THAT BOTH SIDES HAVE.
AND NOW FOR MAYBE ONE OF THE MAIN REASONS,IS THE PARENTS!!!
I THINK I COULD GET A 10 MILLION LOAN FROM A BANK WITH LESS DUE DILIGENCE THEN WHAT PARENTS ARE INVESTIGATING ,DEMANDING,ETC.
THE POOR YOUNG BOYS AND GIRLS CANT EVEN GET OUT OF THE GATE AND MEET.
TAKE ALL ARE BOYS AND GIRLS,PUT THEM ON ISLAND FOR A MONTH , 90% WILL HOOK UP
GOOD LUCK TO ALL THE BOYS AND GIRLS
(12/15/2010 7:40:22 PM)
67
#18
Interesting perspective. Never heard that one before. I guess it's a good problem to have if you're decisive and know what/who you're looking for.
(12/15/2010 7:40:36 PM)
68
I'm a parent of a shidduch-age boy
If we had waited for the perfect spouse, my spouse & I would never have married anyone. And if we weren't prepared to overlook each other's imperfections we'd have been divorced within a year. We're now grandparents B"H & very happy.

QUESTION: Is there a tape available for people to buy? If so, please post contact information. Thanks.
(12/15/2010 7:45:44 PM)
69
#54
total hogwash.
(12/15/2010 7:51:18 PM)
70
to everybody
what manis friedman is saying, is not that you should just get married without thinking because that's the desire of g-d. What he is saying is that you should get married with the reason why you are getting married being that you want to fullfill the will of g-d. In other word he is saying that you should put away your own desires and think that the main thing is that I have to make a binyan adei ad with which to serve g-d, now with whom could i fullfill that goal with best is the question. Other people are looking at it the oppostie way, like I want a girl with this personality and this type of interest because that's what I want. And when you look at something from the right perspective you come out remarkably different results. And here is moshol which will really explain this very well. I dbout it's true. The USA was trying to research how they could write with a pen in outerspace. So they spent lots of time and money designing a pen which could write in outerspace. One day the Russian and American space programs got together for a meeting. During the meeting the subject of how to write in outerspace came up. So the USA explained how they got around the problem. And asked Russia how they got around the problem. The Russians said you guys are fools. Just use a pencil and you solve the problem. Instead of thinking how to write with a pen think how to write period. So too over here we must take things a step backwards and think about why we ourselves our getting married is it to serve ourselves or to serve a higher purpouse. And then we can think about the who.
(12/15/2010 7:56:47 PM)
71
#66
You are MY HERO! sounds like it would make a great reality show we can call it "The Bochurim"
(12/15/2010 8:03:40 PM)
72
bitul
The Baal Shem Tov said that it says in the Torah ""I stand between you and G-d." The problem with some people getting married is the "I" stands in the way.
(12/15/2010 8:05:18 PM)
73
TO #71
TY!!
(12/15/2010 8:17:29 PM)
74
Emes
It's interesting to hear all these comments about "old school style." I'm certainly young and my experience and outlook was totally as suggested by Rabbi Friedman.

I think one advantage of starting dating young is that you are in an idealistic mode, fresh from seminary where these ideas are as common as the air you breathe, fresh from BR's habayis hayehudi classes where you hear Rabbi Paltiel saying: "kinderlach, choose wisely. What kind of a grandfather do you want for your grandkids?" As much as this sounds "old school" it is the Rebbe's approach! Living and breathing this isn't "old school" or naivete--it's true maturity. (Notice how the MO world is struggling with a shidduch crisis majorly! So who's to say their "system" works?!)

I got married only six years ago and my entire approach was simply that this would be the right one unless proven otherwise. In other words, the dating process began with the assumption that this bochur would be the one, unless I saw something wrong. The main things Yiras Shamayim, a mentsch, and of course hamshachas halev, a feeling of chemistry of some sort. What if he didn't have a great sense of humor or a great voice or the most charismatic personality? These things do not a home make.

Because ultimately, who are we to know how things will turn out? One who is definitely going on shlichus may end up in business, one who has everything going for him may just not find a job successfully, one who wants a good parnassa may end up struggling terribly and in the reverse!

We just have to be a bit simpler--and like the Rebbe told Mrs. Chana Sharfstein, recognize that true love is not infatuation and romance --that's the stuff of novels! Pure fantasy. True love is giving and sharing and building--that creates a real connection and true love.

What are the qualities that you need to look for in a man/woman who will build and support the kind of home you want?
(12/15/2010 8:18:51 PM)
75
to #74
Good to see that some young people are approaching marriage sensibly.

The others can rant and attack but they're single and for good reason.
(12/15/2010 8:39:56 PM)
76
#12 Your Are Absolutely Correct
Marriage is one of the most important decisions you'll ever make.

DO NOT take it lightly. DO consider looks, DO consider parnassa, DO consider middos. Consider EVERYTHING, and do so carefully, because marriage is a life-long commitment.

If I had done what some are suggesting here, I would have married the wrong girl, because it took me years to find my bashert.....and yes, contrary to what many are saying here, there is such thing as a perfect match, I have been married to her for almost 10 years now.
(12/15/2010 8:58:48 PM)
77
my 2 cents
I must agree with many of the posters here.

There are many complex and unique guys and girls out there...

Look, i'm 25 year old guy.. I dont get any shiuduch offers.. why not?

I dont worry it though, i just find this whole shiduch crisis to be laughable

I dont want a bland date.. I want to share my personalty, express my views and opinions..

I as well as other guys I know, are looking for women with more personalty..

I feel like girls out there are way shallow.. maybe many guys are too I dont know..

So heres my truth, I rather be gardening than shopping.. and i'm a guy ;)
(12/15/2010 9:01:26 PM)
78
To #74
Funny how you wrote a long comment, but nowhere did you mention anything about being happily married.

I see so many people in shul who have been married for a while who barely speak to their spouses. I can't even begin to tell you about the countless times that I have been invited over for a Shabbos meal and the bad vibes between husband and wife make me uncomfortable. I just don't want to end up like one of them.
(12/15/2010 9:12:51 PM)
79
to 76
Yes be attracted to her. But make marriage the priority. Not who it will be. And yes there is a perfect match. But not a perfect girl. As Rabbi Friedman said last night: No matter how great she will be, after a week you will be sick of her. Unless you are a husband and not a man. You want to be part of someone else and work at it.
(12/15/2010 9:13:13 PM)
80
#77
I like that philosophy.... gardening than shopping....
(12/15/2010 9:15:26 PM)
81
this was for singles too?
I would have loved to go, but from the way it was advertised, it appeared that it was meant only for parents. What a shame - can it please be done again, and advertised for singles as well?
That said, I want to thank the author, as well as the more intelligent commenters here - you've helped me understand something.
My perspective on marriage is in line with what Rabbi Friedman says - bh, I am glad I had the opportunity to hear him speak before, and when I was going out recently, I was quite happy with the process, the person - everything! There were some things, which potentially could have bothered me, but because I was so happy in every other regard, it didn't even occur to me to be bothered by them. What a shock I was in for, when after more than a few times of meeting, the answer came back as a no. Yes, we agreed on just about everything, had the same goals, opinions, viewpoints, etc, got along well, but apparently there was a certain "something" that the other person was looking for, and didn't find. This has been bothering me to no end, but after reading this article and comments, I understand better how the other person could have simply been looking for "the right/perfect one", as opposed to looking for marriage, like I was.
(12/15/2010 9:25:46 PM)
82
Response To Facebook Page #38
A marriage without love is a seasonless world where you laugh, but not all of your laughter, and weep, but not all of your tears. That is a sad unfeeling world.

I believe we are seeing the results of thinking we can attach to anyone including G-d without genuine, authentic love. You may live together, share a roof and children, yet It is not possible to become one without a melding of your souls; that can only be done with genuine feelings toward another.

I think if we were to really do some serious soul searching we would see our youth are leaving for this same reason.
(12/15/2010 9:28:12 PM)
83
my 2 cents
#80,
Its #77.. I also want goats and horses :)

We also need to re-examine the job breakdown.. not all women are great cooks, why shouldent the husband cook too?

(12/15/2010 9:32:29 PM)
84
#83
Goats and horses, really ?"There are many complex and unique guys and girls out there"
(12/15/2010 9:43:47 PM)
85
Married 10 years thank G-d
and got married at 21 and was not at Manis's talk and this 'Kid' knows what he's saying. and all of you 'Older' guys and girls who are bashing him... what you shouldn't marry who you want? look for who's perfect for you? maybe on the other side of the world someone's better? .... you haven't looked in the mirror or heard yourself talk.
YES, you get married cuz Torah says to
YES, you get married to the one who shares your values, who you see yourself raising Chassidishe children with
NOT to the one who 'seems' perfect to you
Cuz when you get home after the Chupa, she ain't so perfect anymore.
And from experience, from a woman who loves her husband more than anything in the world;
that's why you get married and then she/he becomes perfect for you and you both become something you never could have imagined beforehand.
I'll go so far as to say, (and I know this from experience) even the personality type that you think suits you (I.e. outgoing, learner, book smart, street smart, etc.) can be exchanged when someone shares your values... marriage connects two people on a plane they can't imagine beforehand... open yourselves up to G-d's endless abilities and He will surely do the rest.
(12/15/2010 9:55:52 PM)
86
my 2 cents
#84,
Really.. you city folk ought to explore the big beautiful world G-d created..
(12/15/2010 10:06:36 PM)
87
T0 81 and 85-
81- It was for parents.. Hopefully soon they'll make the classes as the author described and suggested.
85- You are right. It is all about the mindset. Focus on the right thing, and things will work out..
(12/15/2010 10:20:53 PM)
88
#86
Agreed! but goats... really!?
(12/15/2010 10:30:54 PM)
89
To #26... from #17
I never said those thina aren't important--what I said wa they don't make or break a marriage. Obviously you have to be attracted to your spouse... But that doesn't mean that you should put looks first on the list... And of couse money is important but many families have financial issues and their marriage is still intact. So Yes, I stand by my previous statement that money and looks are not what a marriage should be based on.
(12/15/2010 10:31:28 PM)
90
What It's All About
I think I can sum up the problem with 2 facts...
1. The guys want skinny girls with good looks who can cook Shabbos just like momma does and will worship their husbands
2. The girls want TALL,good-looking guys who earn big bucks, go to movies, and learn night and day.

And you wonder why singles aren't getting married???????
(12/15/2010 10:31:33 PM)
91
to the 2 cents....
ADVISE FROM CHADCHAN YES YOU SHOULD START TO DATE YOU ARE BEING SELFISH NOT TO TRY, SHE'S THERE LOOKING FOR YOU, YOU ARE JUST MAKING VERY HARD FOR HER AND YOUR HALF TOO -INSTEAT TO GO TO YOUR GARDEN, GOATS AND COWS. I THINK YR PROBLEM IS MORE DEEPER IS TO COMMIT AND BUILD A LIFE = NOT IN A FARM WITH ANIMALS = BUT WITH MATURITY SO BE SERIOUS... FROM CHADCHAN
(12/15/2010 10:43:27 PM)
92
Why
Why cant someone express their opinion without being criticized for every thing, if you disagree at least have the maturity to write it in a respectful way and if you cant dont write this is definitely not going to bring moshiach.
Good job for posting your opinion and may you find your bashert asap
(12/15/2010 11:08:40 PM)
93
....
#59 you're right on!
AIn Od Milvado!
(12/15/2010 11:09:39 PM)
94
my 2 cents
#90
Define skinny? if a guy isnt attracted to her physically its a issue, myself personally I am repulsed by overmakeupd women who look like ancient egypt. Cooking is last on my list.. and I do my own laundry tyvm

To be honest, I dont have a image of my future wife.. I just see her smiling, thats all that counts
(12/15/2010 11:27:47 PM)
95
To number 56
I dont think you should be telling anyone when to get married or when their right time is especially since you are giving yourself till 30 which is your call and your right but at the same token he is right for stating what he stated and he has the right to his own opinion to the matter and to his personal experience with the dating scence and its surrounding drama. Lets be considerate.
(12/15/2010 11:39:10 PM)
96
a great idea!
the best people to make a shidduch are FRIENDS,relatives , neighbors and FRIENDS !!!!!so my FRIEND , relative, neighbor and FRIEND please seriously try to help me find my bashert. It's a mitzva and the shadchanus GELT is a great bonus!!!!
(12/15/2010 11:44:32 PM)
97
WHAT MANNIS DID NOT SAY
Yes people got married to get married and how many people are actually happly married, or simply together bec of kids, jewish lifestyle ect
(12/15/2010 11:47:18 PM)
98
Annonymous
there are some Shadchanem that charge for names and most of them do not listen or understand what the boy or girl is talking about. To fix the problem if you want to go to a shadchen go if not dont go.
shlicus does not always have to be away how about right here and take care of our children here so they dont end up with worse problems.
(12/16/2010 12:03:03 AM)
99
A DVD is Coming Out
A DVD of Manis's talk is going to be available soon IYH.
(12/16/2010 12:09:28 AM)
100
#78
In marriage, there's going to be the big "D-word," DISAGREEMENT. Unfortunately, many of us are intolerant of and offended by this TRUTH, because many of us have assimilated to the secular practice and fantasy of POLITICALLY CORRECTNESS and the idea that EVERYONE'S EQUAL.

Married people disagree all the time, just like many parents have disagreements with their children. So, what, now you don't want to be a parent, because you "don't want to be like that" as a parent? It is HUMAN to disagree.

The biggest CHALLENGE and WORK (yes, marriage is WORK) about marriage is COMMUNICATION. Plus, you and your spouse can't just walk out/you are not going anywhere.

The two of you, together, made a SELFLESS commitment to each other, under the chupah, and for your FUTURE CHILDREN (G-d willing) to DO THE WORK - HASHEM's WORK. ...Like both spouses, under the chupah, coming together at Har Sinai and agreeing to uphold and take on Hashem's commandments.

...So spouses HAVE TO WORK/TALK things out, thank G-d.

...Even if it's "uncomfortable" - another contemporary society fantasy: everything has to be fast and convenient. And where did we get the idea that the "endeavor of life" is supposed to be free of effort and risk? THAT's NOT REAL. Unfortunately, we're applying these ideas to people... lo tov.

Don't be fooled by the fantasy of secular ways, which is AGAINST marriage. Yes, this alluring fantasy tells us "it's all about ME" and "how GREAT and beautiful I AM and can be"....as long I don't have a "ball-and-chain"/spouse. Oh, exception: secular society praises marriage when your spouse is a BEAUTY "ACCESSORY," like a belt or a nice pair of shoes - you know, "It's ok, because it LOOKS GOOD." ...A real shonda...

BELIEVE ME - I did not grow up frum, and, let me tell you, secular "living" is destructive to becoming and being healthily marriage. Rid yourself of all its influence. It really is idolatryland out there - not just of things, but also of SELF. Stop protecting your SELF and EGO

Marriage and communication are a slow process, unlike (yet, another obstacle to marriage) SCRIPTED media, such as tv and movies - where everything is fast, rehearsed, timed, and edited with precision FOR ENTERTAINMENT (that is, it's NOT REALITY)....there's no time in these presentations for resolving personal issues. Again, the primary purpose is to ENTERTAIN - NOT REALITY.

And don't even think, that MALE and FEMALE communication styles are even complementary. We're like NIGHT and DAY.

Please be careful that you don't judge the whole concept of marriage because of your experience being with a few married couples who were BEING REAL/GENUINE/AUTHENTIC in EXPRESSING THEIR FEELINGS (happy or not), whether verbally or with body language.

BELIEVE ME, when you get married, PLEASE G-D, SOON, that's when you will EXPRESS your feelings the MOST EVER in your LIFE... You HAVE TO in marriage...that's where the EMOTIONAL CONNECTION occurs. Also, when observing married couples, you don't know what's going on or being said when you're not there/"behind clothes doors." ...Even the spouses who APPEAR "normal" to you may be going through challenging times, and they're just concealing it for your sake, etc.

Overall, you can't put together the WHOLE picture of "marriage" with just PIECES that you've experienced from an outsiders point-of-view. You need to experience it FIRST HAND, G-d willing, soon.
(12/16/2010 12:23:46 AM)
101
#85 = 100% CORRECT
This is absolutely, the REAL experience of finding your basheret and doing the WORK of marriage. Thank you for sharing your insight.
(12/16/2010 12:28:57 AM)
102
to number 95
dont tell us what is right and what is not because when there is a whole bunch of girls who are not married because you bachlor guys want to party and have fun and wait till your 30 to get married to an 20 year old thats the problem it is a busha for you to say to have all the time you want and you have a opinion why dont you be considerate and stop with this chutspa
(12/16/2010 12:40:50 AM)
103
my 2 cents
#91,
Great points you make, my focus here on those issues is that many of us are diverse.

Maybe, maybe I am as above posters point out.. I want my wife to be like my mother.. BUT my mother is sweet, silly, deep, approachable, warm, loving, caring, generous, stern, emphasis on the inside.. and every other character trait I deem to be important.

So one goes out on a date.... attempting to get a glimpse of the person.. you want to know to really know what your dealing with.

Ive seen shiduchim questionnaires that made me cringe.. is it important how often I go to the mikva or if I write to the igros before A a minor issue or B only a BIG issue, or C I fax to ohel

When you come away from a date, feeling that #1 the girl does not understand or relate to you, you dont understand or relate to her... the shadchan should be pelted in public with rotten vegetables for even thinking of this shiduch..

So we eventually lose faith in both the shadchan and the opposite gender.

As for the above rubbish about our parents etc etc..

Please spare me.... I have no foolish romantic sentiments, but to imply that I should marry the first girl I dont have any serious issues with? no wonder the older generation in chabad is so bitter and quarrels so much
(12/16/2010 1:12:43 AM)
104
85 is right
Since a single person does not know what marriage is about, and is clueless to just how clueless they are to the entirely different world called marriage, s/he may think that some extraneous things are important. But those who are married know that only a few things are truly important. Essentially they relate to good and kind personality and yiras shomayim. All other things become meaningless. Even looks can become meaningless if someone is not a mentch. I know a non-frum person who was married to a women who's profession was and is being a model, and less savory things. So the looks were all there. They got divorced a few years after getting married. Obviously the looks could not make glossy the day to day living, which is what is real in marriage. You have to live with personality every day but youthful beauty fades, and many women do get more plump as life goes on. To all singles reading this. I promise you that once you do get married you will discover that your spouse is a vastly different person than the personality you thought you dated. So, if the basics of the basics are there when you go out (and the assumption is you didn't find something revolting that after multiple dates you can't come to terms with), and there is some hamshochas halev, then go for it. In a marriage two opposites try to coexist. That can only happen when you make room for things that are opposite to you. In other words, you forgo, overlook and forgive many, many things. You each change! (If you don't, you'll forever be unhappy or divorced. Plus if you don't change then you are simply selfish. Marriage teaches you to give of yourself even when it hurts very much, and eventually you are happy to give of yourself.) So the cheshbonos rabim that people might make are actually for naught. How do I know what I am talking about? I've married off some kids and trying to marry off some more. Rabbi M. F. is right.
(12/16/2010 1:12:52 AM)
105
What It's All About
Our community deperately needs Shimshon Stock A"H.

Shimshon, where are you when we need you????
(12/16/2010 1:14:12 AM)
106
chaim g
I was just speaking to a friend of mine. And he gave me this example. Although it is not exact, but it is similar in a sense.

IF you are looking to buy a house. It is a big decision, you can be spending hundreds of thousands of dollars. So make sure you get the right place, and are happy with it. However you have to be looking for a place to live, and then soon enough you will find a place where you can live. Whatever the place is like, you will be happy, and things will be worked out over time. There definitely is necessary upkeep etc. However, if you think I need a place with marble counters, and this type of chandelier, and this size backyard, and this many rooms, and this color. It is likely that it will take you ages to find it, if you end up finding it. Because what is the point? To get a house. Yes have certain requirements and be attracted to the house. But don't get caught up on that. If you are serious about getting the house, then it will happen. With the proper focus and mindset.
(the difference from Rabbis Friedman's point is that he was focusing on the idea that your spouse is destined for you..) But the point is there.
(12/16/2010 1:27:13 AM)
107
To every comment posted
I can definitely say that I enjoyed reading the comments posted in this article, although I didn't make it to reading each and every one. Just one message.... Please spell check before- you don't need to show the world how illiterate you are! COLlive, thanks for bringing news to our community. I suggest a new feature, "SpellCheck for Comments". This is just in case some readers' browsers don't provide it yet
(12/16/2010 2:06:45 AM)
108
To all singles looking....
I would like to share with you my experience from back in the day when I was going through my own shiduch crisis.
I was the first guy of my group of friends to start dating and the last one to get married. I dated more girls than all my friends (uncommon those days) and picked up a few tips along the way. Tips that I have gladly shared with the many friends and relatives, mostly boys but some girls too, who came to me for advise, both before and after I was married.
If I have learned anything from all that and more importantly from having met my beloved wife is that she was nothing like I had imagined my wife would be but she was still a perfect match for me. And it turns out that I am completely not the person I thought I was back then. Yet my marriage and household is every single bit what I had always envisioned and yearned for. That is because most of what was important to me in a wife whom I would build a yidishe chasidishe home with I would find out ahead of the dating. That list included among other things kindness, respect, tznius, chsidishkeit, intellect, chinuch. So when it came to the dating I would split the process in 2 parts, number one spend some time to check if I liked the way she looks (never asked for pictures before dating since in most cases does not do justice to the person), the way she talks, walks, thinks, sense of humor, interests, charisma, hobbies, passions etc. Then move on to part 2 which is verify all the important things I had asked about her before I met her. The first part is where she and I turned out to be different than I thought. And it really did not matter since, as it turns out, most of the time devoted to our relationship and family is spent on the second part. And because I realized that the longer we are together the more I like her in all the things in part 1.
I feel that singles today, influenced by the world out there, have a picture in their mind of how their spouse needs to be in all the social aspects. And as soon as the person in front of them does not fit that mold they can't look past that and call it off. Yet if they would be a little more flexible to allow themselves to like someone even if it is not what they have in their mind, perhaps they will be able to see that they really are alike in all the aspects that really matter. And then they surely will get love even all of the not so perfect social aspects of that person without ever compromising their happiness.
(12/16/2010 3:08:35 AM)
109
Moshie K
why is it that bochurim who feel ready to get married can do so at 18 /girls as oppose to waiting to 23
(12/16/2010 6:44:30 AM)
110
Dated for 13 years - got married at 36
Realx all those that are knocking this young boy who never dated and is still writing true points.

Stop being bitter all those who wrote nasty coments and are wrting out of frustration.

It may not be geniuos anything he wrote but calm down.

For all you "older" boys and gris.

AlI can say as a "typical " Chabad bochur meant to get married at 22 (lol) (most of my class was already 23 and marreid) who ended getting married at 36 is to keep up a good spirit and daven and beleive that the day will come and this is a time to grow and to see the silver linging in the challange you are facing and one thing I can say that with a frustrated attitude and being despondent you are definitely not giving yourself the chance to meet a happy wonderfull girl as your personality will come through when dating.

Stay strong. Its not easy and I am sure there are many other poeple in life (not marriage) who are facing huge challanges. You have the Kochos for it. Dig deep into all what you learned about challaging times and what you tought others and now use it for your own situation.

All the best
(12/16/2010 6:58:06 AM)
111
#23
thank you for all you're beautiful yiddish words. but how do you say emotionally stable in yiddish?
(12/16/2010 8:40:39 AM)
112
Parents and shadchonim and my personal story
Someone commented that he thought manis only spoke for parents. Well technically it's true because the main issue over here aren't the kids. Like was said earlier the kids don't know what to look for, they don't know good or bad like any inexperienced person. So here come the parents who obviously want everything perfect for their child and look at everything in the most possible negative way. That's also why married girls usually don't love their mother in laws because she's still getting the feeling she's not good enough.
Since everybody wants to know how we feel about it I'll tell you my personal story.

I'm a bochur of 24 and I've seen 2 girls.
The first 1 was a nice girl but I saw that it wasn't a girl for me. She was from an important family and I always had the feeling like she was thinking "gd, if not for this crisis I would never date a guy like this". I can imagine what kind of comments I'll get for saying this but everything was right about this girl exept it just didn't "click" and that's why I let go.
The second girl was a girl that my parents didn't really want me to see because they didn't complete her checkup but because I was in town and wanted to go out they let me.
I didn't get a proper look at her when she got in the car. When we got to the hotel I thought I'd feel confident since I went out a few times with that other girl, but even without looking at her I felt I did every thing wrong. I got thru the evening and started feeling better even though we didn't agree on certain view points I felt like this a person I want to share my life with. To cut the long story short, I came home and my parents told me that they made some calls and found out that the parents were divorced and her mother remarried. Basically they don't think I need something like this, I'm young and there are plenty of girls.
Help!!
(12/16/2010 8:51:51 AM)
113
To 112
Your parents are really screwing you life up...you went out with a girl with whom you felt that you would like to share your life with and they don't want you to date her cause her parents got divorced? How stupid is that?? From what I hear many children from divorced homes turn out to be exceptionally good spouses since they are intent (just like everyone is) to avoid their parents mistakes...
(12/16/2010 11:20:51 AM)
114
To 112
Please get a Rov involved to speak with your parents immediately before they ruin your life.
(12/16/2010 11:29:26 AM)
115
well known chadchan
PLZ GET YOUR FRIENDS TOGETHER, THINK FOR YOUR CLASSMATES AND THAT WILL BREAK THE SHIDUCH CRISIS... STOP TO BLAME ON PARENTS, EVEN TEACHERS, MASHPIHIM CAN DO IT "STOP MIVTZAIM AND ACT ON SHIDUCHIM TO REDUCE THAT BIG NUMBER OF OLDER AND YOUNGER SINGLES... DON'T BE SELFISH...DO IT FRIENDS, NEIGHBOORS, CLASSMATES, ETC...SO PICK UP THE PHONE AND ACT WITH SENSE NOW...MOSHIACH NOWWW1!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
(12/16/2010 12:49:54 PM)
116
SELF INFLICTED CRISIS
THE PROBLEM NOWADAYS IS THAT THE BOYS ARE LOOKING FOR THE PERFECT "MODEL". THEY FORGET THAT THE IMPORTANT THING IS IF SHE IS A PERSON HE CAN SEE HIMSELF SHARING THE REST OF HIS LIFE WITH. OR IF SHE WILL BE A GOOD WIFE AND MOTHER. AND THE WORST OF IT IS THE PARENTS GO ALONG WITH THIS RIDICULOUS WAY OF THINKING. SO THAT EVEN IF THE GUY DOES GET ENGAGED AND MARRIED, UNFORTUNATELY SO MANY TIMES IT ENDS IN DIVORCE WITH SOME INNOCENT LITTLE CHILDREN LEFT TO SUFFER THE CONSEQUENCES OF THEIR PARENTS' VAIN, RIDICULOUS MINDSET AND ACTIONS. WHEN MY HUSBAND WAS IN A DILEMMA AS TO HOW HE WOULD KNOW WHICH GIRL WAS THE RIGHT ONE FOR HIM, HE ASKED THE REBBE. THE REBBE'S RESPONSE WAS "YOUR HEART WILL TELL YOU". IT'S NOT ABOUT "SHOWING OFF" A DRESDEN DOLL, IT'S GOT TO BE DEEPER THAN THAT.
(12/16/2010 2:32:17 PM)
117
That was a load of hogwash.


"Instead of worrying who you’re going to marry, we used to worry how we are going to marry."

Look at the marriages in the older generation of our community; there's a significantly smaller percentage of happy couples than today's younger generation. I wouldn't say they're "unhappy" couples, but they aren't the same caliber relationships as the younger ones. People no doubt will be offended that I put this statement into writing, but singles and their parents need to be aware, and RESPECT, that there is a different dating philosophy today, and the old one is no longer as applicable.

"A lot of people are honest enough to say, 'What would my friend say if I marry her?"

I have news for you buddy; that detail is quite an important in marriage. If you marry a certain girl in order to impress your friends, then YOU have issues; but if you marry a girl who you don't feel proud of in front of your friends, then your WILL HAVE issues.

"You'll never be ready enough for marriage."

True, but I really don't think it's a problem. People who don't "feel ready" hold off a year or two; I don't know anyone consciously planning a single life till thirty. It's really a halachic issue, not a dating one.

"I think these novel ideas and realizations have to be publicized and talked about."

I think everyone who's been dating has heard this sort of stuff more times than they cared to.

"There was an article on COLlive a couple of months ago about parents wanting to organize classes to teach singles in the Chabad community about relationships and marriage."

The redeeming thought of this whole article. Such classes are sorely needed, and it is a stain on our community that it still has not happened. As you probably tell from this comment thus far, they're only going to be beneficial if they're taught by the right person, with the appropriate message.

Now to be sure, the Talmud and Midrash extolls those who marry Lshaim Shomayim, and teaches they'll be blessed with children Talmidei Chachomim. The catch is, it only works if you're a "keili" for it. If you possess the Yiras Shomayim to make the most important decision in your life based on the best reasons, Ashrecha. But if you only KNOW it is a positive thing, but you DON'T FEEL it, then reality will pretty quickly wallop you on the back of your head.
(12/16/2010 4:13:57 PM)
118
To #90
right on! I couldnt have said it better myself
(12/16/2010 4:21:48 PM)
119
#51 she said he's Chassidish
She used the expression not him!
Didn't know the word was such bad language for a Chassidishe girl anyways!
(12/16/2010 5:21:35 PM)
120
regarding the tall statement
I'm tall and theres nothing I can do about it.
(12/16/2010 6:38:41 PM)
121
shidduchim
We don't need to worry the Rebbe M'HM Shlita will make the shidduch. All we need to do is to learn the Rebbes' Sichos that's hinting the Rebbe is Moshiach
(12/16/2010 6:45:26 PM)
122
Just to add on the side.. since this is already becoming a great big cholent ;)
from someone wise:
We are a generation of complicated souls. Some of it is our own doing, but some of it is the destiny thrust upon us. The knotty world of modern dating is partly a reflection of the complex nature of the modern soul.

The search for a soulmate will be made easier or harder depending on what type of soul you have. The master kabbalist Rabbi Isaac Luria taught that only new souls have an easy time finding their soulmate. When your soul comes to this world for the first time, you are fresh and unencumbered. Your vision is clear and your heart is open, and it is easy to recognise your soulmate.

But for those souls who have been here before, reincarnated souls, it doesn't come so easily. Reincarnated souls come to the world with the baggage of their previous life, and though every soul is born pure, a reincarnated soul is born complicated.

So while a new soul will meet and recognise their soulmate immediately, an old soul will have to work harder. They may have to meet many others before they meet the right one. They may need to do a lot of growing and inner development before being ready to recognise their soulmate. There is a lot of stuff to get over first - like unrealistic expectations, over-specific requirements, exaggerated self-images, superficial hang-ups and the residue of relationships of the past. And even when soulmates do find each other, they will have to work hard to make things work.

The kabbalists declared that almost all souls these days have been here before. Very few new souls are coming down. So we can expect the search for soulmates to be more challenging now than ever. Our souls are carrying baggage - some we have inherited and some our own doing - and only by working through those layers do we remove the barriers that stand between our soul and our soulmate.

The best way to bring about meeting your soulmate is to be more in touch with your own soul. When your soul is pulsating with inspiration and clarity, when you are spiritually grounded and bringing goodness to your surroundings, then you are most prone to meeting your soulmate. It may take some effort, but that is your destiny.
(12/16/2010 8:39:39 PM)
123
...
is it my fault I'm not a skinny model???
(12/16/2010 9:52:07 PM)
124
to 112
Please see Rabbi Dalphin's book of letters of the Rebbe where the Rebbe says clearly that divorced parents should NOT be an obstacle; i.e. it is not an even an issue to be considered.
(12/16/2010 10:31:19 PM)
125
To 122
You have made the most important statement. If you do not teach you should. Your statemsnt alone is all anyone needs to digest. Thank you!
(12/17/2010 12:36:15 AM)
126
to # 115
correct ACT NOW pick up the phone NOW and connect with your friends, classmates, neighboors, relatives or send profiles to mitzvashidduch@gmail.com OR chabadshidduch@aol.com, they are thanks G-d very actifs, professionals with confidentiality...
(12/17/2010 1:26:15 AM)
127
And we wonder why we're still in golus
Why the disrespect to Rabbi Friedman? Have you ever met him? Have you ever heard him speak? So maybe you don't agree with everything he says, fine. But he is a real chossid, a yirei shamayim, and talmid chachom who has made so much difference in the lives of so many people. It is incomprehensible that you could dismiss such a man in this manner. And the bochur who wrote this as well, we should be thanking him for sharing the lecture with people who couldn't attend, not pouring ridicule on his head because we are frustrated with our own situation. Where is the ahavas yisroel? We say we want Moshiach, we know that the Bais Hamikdosh was destroyed from sinas chinam, and this is how we behave?
(12/17/2010 3:48:55 AM)
128
To #112
I think your parents are just rude!! My parents got devorced!! Does that make me not fit to run a home? Be a good spouse?!? A good mother?!?! I think they need to set their priorities straight if you said you felt like she was one you could share your life with!!! I feel sorry for you
(12/17/2010 9:54:17 AM)
129
to 112
Uh you really shouldn't have posted the details of the two girls you have "seen"

( Small tip--Get comfortable with the word "dated" and you'll be more comfortable with the actual date.)

what if a girl you went out with recognizes herself as the one you described here? its a bit embarrassing for her.
(12/18/2010 6:07:02 PM)
130
is it really true that there are more girls than guys sinlges?
i'm a 19 years old girl .. and i hear so much that people say : there is not enough guys , but there is too many girls .. and as a girl obviously i see the girls situation and i remeber last year i was in seminary in nyc and i was seeing so many sinlges girls hanging out in ch waiting to get married and on shabbos so many of them looking down to the guys section ... you can guess why ...
then i ask myself i see so many girls that are looking to get married are there also a lot of guy that need to get marrie??
(12/18/2010 8:23:31 PM)
131
marriage wisdom
I was reading all these comments and i would like to share my story. About 20 years ago when i was well into the shidduch scene, had been dating for 3 years or so, my husbands name came up for me. My first impression was no. He came from a no name family and parnassah was meager on their part. The shadchan convinced my parents that i should give it a shot, bec he was a real special boy. All i can say is that BH i listened. From the moment i wen tout with my husband i saw charachter traits that u dont find in most bochurim. He was kind, considerate, warm, good hearted and an all around mentch. Let me tell u, that money comes and goes. Skinny girls can become fat and fat girls can become skinny. Every present that i received and continue to receive from my dear husband means the world to me. I know that he has worked so hard to give me the best, and its not coming from his parents bank account!!! one word of advice to u singles....look for a good person with good middos and who has his head on right. At then end of the day it u and him and if he is a good person thats the most imp thing in life!! take it from me, bh i made the right choice!!
(12/18/2010 11:22:58 PM)
132
to 130
I see the girls looking down.. I feel bad for them. Is it proven that there are more girls born than boys?
(12/18/2010 11:27:44 PM)
133
Fact
There are more better girls than better guys.
(12/18/2010 11:58:31 PM)
134
to 133
Wow. Getting sharp here. I am a guy. There are lots of good guys out there. Why would you say such a statement? What is it based upon?
(12/19/2010 12:32:13 AM)
135
To 125
First off, I didn't come up with this.. What is written under 122
And don't know if its my place really to teach..
So many wise people are disrespected, teachers, mechanchim, mashpiim. I'm not yet married.
Thank you though
(12/19/2010 2:18:42 AM)
136
to 133
I dont think the point was to offend guys in general.
Its just easier to be a good girl than to be a good guy, both because of their different natures (girls are GENERALY more drawn to spirituality, and more obedient / interested in doing the 'right' thing), and because of what is expected of them (the boys have to do more... learn all day etc)

NOT that i'm saying its easy to be a good girl...
(12/19/2010 2:19:03 AM)
137
amen to #17
Obviously research should go into the process
and people shouldnt just get married before they know clearly its a good (compatible) match.

good in terms of:
Does He/She have the right values?
Does He/She have good midos?
Do i feel an attraction drawn to this person
(note: it dosent say, infatuated, a-crush...)
simply a anticipation of the heart toward the other,
if the fundemental ingrediants are present,
the marriege is inclined to blossom & deepen m'chayil el choyil,

if Ch"v
the Main ingredients are not the Deciding-Focus
if your lacking Humility (yiras shomayim) to heaven
if your lacking Kindness (Middos)
if your lacking Attraction (Hamshachat halev) of the heart to one another....
(12/20/2010 1:27:47 AM)
138
this guy will get much further than all the "enlightened" cynics
the #1 ingredient for true success in Family is seeking out guidance & direction from those who have expertise & experience

those who resist new ideas from mentors etc live below their full potential...

eiehu chacham halomeid m'kol adom
(12/20/2010 1:33:19 AM)
139
40 repost
I got married because it was the right thing to do....
....and I looked for the IMPORTANT things - Midos -Yiras Shomayim...15 plus years later, I can say - that is the ONLY way to go.

I did not get married because I liked his style (hated his glasses) or his looks, ( he was ok, cute - but no stud), or was cool etc - he was just a hardworking, intelligent, chassidishe bochur that was aidel and nice.

And 15 plus years later, I can say - we are the best of friends, finish each others sentences, respect each other, and are truly in love.

Manis is on the money. Love comes from marriage, not before marriage - before marriage it is about what is in it for ME, what is good for ME.

After marriage, you learn to make it a WE.

Lust fades, love stays. Loves comes after because of what you do for each other. With every kind act, you build a brick of love. Putting your needs aside for the other, builds a brick of love. Giving of yourself, even when you are not in the mood, buiilds a brick of love.

And then, with time, brick by brick, you have a house of love and happiness, a house where Hashem feels comfortable to reside.

So, in short Manis is right on. And to all you prospective suitors out there; Eizeh Hoo Chachom, Halomed Mikol Adom.

Dont dismiss something because it does not reflect your worldview. The information gained may build your world.
(12/20/2010 1:42:23 AM)
140
wierd article
although it is tru:)- at least some of it but i find the peer pressure aspect the most true:) i think we all ta just get going instead of mopping over these problems- bring moshiach and all will b solved (but still get married:)
(12/20/2010 2:32:53 AM)
141
Boys? Girls?
We need to stop referring to adults as "boys" and "girls." They are men and women. Men and women have responsibilities and obligations, boys and girls do not.

Men should be looking first for good mother for his children. After that he should care about looks, personality, etc, etc.

Another thing to keep in mind, if you find that you still think and feel the same way you did at the time of your bar or bat mitzvah, your not ready to get married.
(12/20/2010 9:45:52 AM)
142
Ridiculous
This is from R. Friedmans facebook page / Rabbi Manis Friedman: "Love is not an important consideration in marriage; even when the love is not there, you cannot just walk off. Marriage is about becoming one with another person. That is why divorce is terrible. Just because you do not like how your leg is, does not mean you go ahead and amputate it. Being married does not make you friends. It makes you ONE. "

Being married makess you become ONE which includes LOVE and being best FRIENDS. What kind of marriage is it if there is no love or friendship, just ONENESS. Boruch Hashem I am ONE with my husband, AND have true LOVE & FREINDSHIP as well. I hope everyone else should be blessed with the same. Don't understand his point at all, sounds very strange to me.

(12/20/2010 9:46:23 PM)
143
to #142
I think the point is the love is APPROPRIATE in marriage - if there is no love, then there is something wrong. However, a lack of love in marriage is not a reason to disolve the marriage, but to work on it. A "loveless" marriage is salvagable. Just my thoughts.
(12/21/2010 6:51:38 PM)
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