Oct 26, 2010
Marriage Advice For Our Kids
A group of concerned parents say marriageable girls and bochurim are not educated enough about the responsibilities and obligations of married life and are planning to do something about it.
Dear Chabad community,
My children are getting older. Almost old enough for Shidduchim. As I look around the Crown Heights neighborhood, read the articles on websites such as COLlive.com, hear stories/rumors, I get nervous.
I asked myself: Are the kids really ready for marriage? Do they really understand what marriage is and what it is not? Do they understand the responsibilities and obligations of a marriage, and the family that will IYH soon follow? Are they really prepared? Do they know the practicals like communicating, compromising, sharing time and space, prioritizing and budgeting?
Of course, I can talk to my children, and you can talk to yours about marriage. And I do, and I'm sure you do. But there may be some things that we don't think of, or things that we can't express.
Or it might be that we don't have a strong communication relationship with our children. Or it can be that we ourselves are missing some key elements of a great marriage. Or our children are away from home in these important years as they develop their attitudes and dispositions about marriage.
Or... a million reasons why it might be best to have others help our children learn more about the importance of a strong marriage, and what must be set up to ensure a successful marriage. And there is value in learning together with others. And value in the boys and girls learning the same thing (think of every time you said I wish the men would hear this Shalom Bayis course too).
True, the girls do learn some of this in seminary, but not everything; somehow most sem graduates feel that they were not adequately prepared. And when do the boys get such discussions?
So, a group of concerned parents want to set up a course, a series of workshops for the kids (separate, but equal, for young ladies and men). And perhaps a few workshops for parents too.
This can be a community effort. Your input, experiences and ideas can help set up this course. And together, we can help the kids have stronger solid marriages, raise stronger families. It's my kid, it's your kid, your future daughter-in-law and your future son-in-law.
We are exploring the following:
- What works well for you in your marriage?
- What was the best marriage advice you've received (or given)?
- What do you wish you'd known before you got married?
- What are marriage mistakes you made (or heard about) that you want others to avoid?
- Who else should get involved in this project - mashpios, mentors, marriage counselors?
- At what age/ stage should this course be given?
- In what format should this course be given?
If you have any answers, please answer in the comments or email us privately to solidmarriage@gmail.com.
read rabbi twerski's books on marriage
if you can follow his advice you are ready for marriage
his books are AMAZING
and if you are finding it very difficult you should get professional help
this is not a new idea!
and such classes should not be given as general courses
usually what works in one marriage may not work in another
it is not always conducive for couple's to be exposed to other people's marriages
it can lead to self doubts and other things
Many people need advice, even those who are married, but don't want to admit it or are concerned about privacy, but if it's online everybody can join.
You can make a forum as well so that people can ask question or give their opinions/Ideas.
Also if you put it on YouTube you can pay experienced educators to give a class either to an audience or just a camera and anybody can come watch the class.
I've heard many people talk about this idea before so there are definitely others who are willing to contribute.
My ideas for two points you mentioned:
Who to get involved - your best bet is Rabbi Manis Friedman. He is undoubtedly the clearest, simplest, most down-to-earth while covering deep topics.
What age/stage - while I can understand considering high school, at that stage, even in 12th grade, when girls believe they are ready for anything, most really are not. Best to do it Sem age and up - target the girls straight out of seminary- they are excited about marriage, mature enough to talk about it seriously, but don't yet have a clue.
And of course make it available for all post-sem.
I don't know what the equivalent years are called for boys (smicha?).
What could be taught is how to deal with in-laws, relationships with unmarried friends and other newly-wed friends, when to determine if a rav should be consulted regarding child spacing, etc. I also see that many young people searching for a shidduch state that they want an "open home" without realizing the expense and stress that this can cause. Rabbonim might be able to clarify when outside chessed is a mitzvah and when it interferes with the marriage.
It would be nice if engaged couples could attend such sessions and I think that shalom task force has some sort of program for engaged couples.
Maybe there could also be courses for parents of pre-shidduch aged youngsters to teach parents to look for signs of maturity and how to help their children understand what qualities will make a good spouse.
Should not be getting married yet, no matter how mature.. B- 4 19 it's to young and you don't know what marriage is.. And you should still be in school then or just being a kid:
Great idea!!
just try and do somerhing good and its amazing the grief fed back
Look at all the non professionals giving professional ie discouraging advice
Much hatzlacha, it can only help and certainly will not damage anyone so why throw a wet towel on the idea
gee whiz
It wouldn't hurt to teach husbands how to help out at home - how to wash a dish, put a sock in the hamper, and fry an egg. There are times when wives can't do everything!
It would help for both girls and boys to know what is their ruchnius role in the marriage (woman: Akeres Habayis, man: Mashpia) and how to help the other to fulfill it.
Quote from Mrs. Touger: "To make your home a conducive environment for personal growth."
We could train young singles to be married before they are even married! Put a single boy in the same house as a single girl and see how well they interact. Then you can give them advice when things go wrong! If they get along well they might even really get married. Then we can fix the Shidduch Crisis and the bad marriage crisis at the same time!
If my earlier idea isn't Kosher enough another idea would be to give each boy a girl-doll and each girl a boy-doll. When the doll isn't treated properly the doll will cry and the single will have to learn how to treat the doll properly.
Now that I've finished fantasizing I need to get back to my real life.
use your brains and realise that this will help it- as the kids will know what to expect and what not to expect from a marriage.
less shidduch break offs, less sholom bayis issues (prevent it dont wait 2 solve them!!) less divorces = less scary to get married...
So here goes: I have worked out a plan of bringing different speakers to teach BOCHURIM who are marriageable age the following topics:
Managing a monthly budget, teaching some financial aspects like: the do's and don'ts of credit cards and building a credit, basic fix-up skills, so as the husband in the house they should know how to change a light bulb or put a nail in the wall, VERY BASIC cooking skills,like making an omelet or cooking pasta, so you should not go crazy when the wife is away or unable to cook, and of course- for guys who are more ready for it: different thinking and approaches of the two genders, know to understand your wife and her verbal and non-verbal ways of communicating.
I find that most Shalom Bais problems come because Bochurim in the frum community, who are not accustomed to spend time with girls, get a bit (or a lot) overwhelmed once the initial excitement of marriage is over, and when a screaming baby enters the picture and life begin to take its real toll, they panic and do some stupid mistakes.
Girls, however, tend to invest much more in a marriage, and get frustrated when the husband start "escaping" their responsibility. (Not ignoring the fact that the girls make mistakes, too, of course!)
So i would like to use this site as a jump-start: If you feel your son will benefit from the planned program, please email petachtikva6@gmail.com. This program will IY"H take place in Crown Heights, and will be charging a reasonable fee, for a worthwhile investment in future family life.
We already have a few guys who are going to participate, and we are aiming for a group of 15-20 participants. As soon as we have enough people, we are good to go, bs"d!
More ideas on necessary issues to address will be given serious attention, and are more than welcome!
he should have asked him to look for a wife with Midos Tovos
Yes, the men must of course learn about taharas hamishpocha. But most wives take charge of their own calculations.
The time currently spent on this part of the details in the men's class could be better spent on more practical things, like:
"Don't talk to your wife the way you talk to your male buddies when you're upset; you'll make her cry (C"V)," and
"Take mental notes when your wife tells you things," and
"Make a point of taking your wife out on a date several times a year, even after you become parents -- just the two of you -- even if it's only for a walk and a cup of coffee," -- that sort of important, practical stuff.
And there are similar bits of practical guidance to include for the kallahs, to prepare them to treat their husbands with more wisdom, as well.
Compared to them we're all top "GEZA".
-Benai Avrohom, Yitzchok V'Yacov, Sarah, Rivkah, Rochel V'Leah.
Also, I think it would be better if it would be for engaged couples. Singles usually tend to focus on finding someone, thinking "It will never happen to them" to fight with their partner. No matter how much they know no one is spared, they all have that ideal that they will never argue with their spouse.
On another note, I heard some rabbis agree to marry the couples only after they have gone through a few sessions of marriage counseling. I think it is great and must spare a lot of grief from all parts.
I hope this project will work. If it's online, I am sure more bachurim will watch it than if it is only on site (they will be way too embarrassed to go)
Avrohom made Eliezer swear to choose a wife for Yitzchok ONLY from GEZA...WHY ???
he should have asked him to look for a wife with Midos Tovos
even when eliezer saw the water miraculously rise for her he he did not give her any thing till he saw her exemplary middos toivois!
People will thank you for many years to come!
This is great!
I think all the people who are being negative need some parenting skills so that they can teach their children how to be a bit more optimistic.
Chai Amar has a great classes like this in golden beach you can watch his classes live online at http://rabbiamar.com/
When I was in Kollel, there were flyers practically every week advertising Sholom Bayis courses for men and women (Many of them by Rabbi Paltiel).
If a husband or a wife is really interested in learning about transforming themselves so that they can live happy, healthy lives together, they will have already gone to those classes (As I have).
These articles usually end up in one of two ways:
1) Nobody cares, so nobody does nothing.
2) Somebody starts a class, first session is full, the next session is half empty, the session after that there are about 2 and a half people, and then it stops altogether.
Now, don't skip this comment just yet - here is my personal opinion: (if it contradicts yours, that's fine by me)
There is only so much you can teach a single person about marriage, because ultimately, every marriage is different, and every problem needs to be dealt with in its own special way. You can learn some basics, but that's about as far as it goes.
However, once you are married, and have a tangible understanding of marriage, there is plenty of room for nurture.
So, in conclusion, as far as I am concerned, what the author of this article is suggesting has already been going on for a long, long time.
If you are in a marriage and truly want to change, the classes are here for you -- GO!
My next suggestion: Tell kids to ask themselves what would make the other person happy, and to learn to be considerate of others. That also helps.
If you want to fly my husband in to teach shalom bayis classes, I can ask if he'd be willing.
- Who was supposed to educate them, if not these "concerned" parents?!
Singed Elter Bochur
I think that is pikuach nefesh mamosh!!!
I think that the answer to all these questions is to listen to lectures by Rabbi Manis Friedman he has saved marriages, that one would have thought had no hope and has guided tons upon tons of couples, bochurim, girls, teens and children and is amazing with his wisdom of people and Torah and chassidus. I think he is the most untapped in to resource Lubavitch has.
As a bochur I spent a week by a seminar with him and learned concepts and it has had a tremendous positive impact on my life. Ask anybody who has been there he is truly amazing, it's addictive, you try to suck in every word he says because you don't hear anybody saying it the way it is besides him.
What -- do you think that it's not true? Or do you disagree with teaching the things to chossons that I suggested? Or do you badly want for the men to be experts before marriage on something they can look up quite easily on their own, in the rare situation that the wife wants not to make her own calculations?
And at the expense of him NOT learning some more important practical stuff -- which could make his marriage more happy -- in advance of marriage?
Or maybe you're just saying that the chosson trainers themselves will say "no way"? I'm not saying not to teach taharas hamishpacha to the chossons; only to do it differently and add some other valuable stuff instead of some of the minutiae that the men can generally learn elsewhere if needed.
Nu?
It would be great to discuss having a large family vs when to talk to a rov about child spacing, as well as a womans role in a family. many women are not comfortable with the traditional role of a jewish woman.
By the way, there was quite a while when BAYIT, an arm of the Taharas Hamishpacha office, was running fantastic courses of young single women. I know they had Rabbi Friedman, Sara Morozov, and a bunch of other big names in Chinuch. Maybe the organizers of that program can be helpful in the planning of these classes.
these kids are not interested!
I will never forget how in seminary 90% of the girls didn't even pay attention to the bayis hayehudi classes. why??
"oh, I have tonz of sisters before me"
"im so not getting married yet"
"boring!!! it puts me to sleep"
These young girls and boys are not interested in knowing about marriage. Its not their reality.
When seeing a good example at home that is the best way a child could learn.
These classes should be for people who are in "shidduchim", engaged and newly married.
"During the last few generations, the difficulty of exile, etc., has given rise to a "new custom," that Jewish daughters go out before their wedding to work and earn money! Such a thing never occurred during those years when matters were in their proper order, at which time Jewish daughters conducted themselves in a manner of "The entire glory of a king's daughter is inward."
"All types of "reasons" are presented to explain the benefits accrued by this new "custom," among them that when she will earn money then her husband will be able to study in Kollel after their marriage... And other similar reasons are given. But what is forgotten is that if the Jewish daughter were to conduct herself in a manner of "The entire glory of a king's daughter is inward," then this would assist the Torah study of her Choson and husband.
"It is not worthwhile speaking about this at length, since this "custom" has spread to all segments of the Jewish population, including those who conduct themselves in a manner of "Mehadrin min HaMehadrin." So that speaking about negating this practice comes under the heading of "A decree the community will not be able to accept.""
Excerpt from a Sicha of the Rebbe, 15 Av, 5743
hashem know's
dont worry about it,first make the keli and hashem will do the rest..
Where are the terrific mechanchim and mechanchos with years of experience who can share their wisdom with others? Too many of us are convinced that we in the Jewish world don't have what it takes, don't have what to offer and only those with secular degrees do. That's false.
Manis Friedman, ZL Markowitz and other educators are people who don't have secular credentials and yet have words of wisdom to offer.
She has the best life knowledge and wisdom, is so practical, down to earth and amazing hashkafa!!
YOu need to TELL them...not "be an example" because as much as you think you are a good example...they don't see what makes a good marriage...they see a good marriage and a good family...and not everyone is lucky enough to have these things...
If only this was made when i was getting married!
(I am divorced)