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Wednesday, 17 Adar II, 5784
  |  March 27, 2024

Passing the Buck

Anonymous Op-Ed: To all of the hanholo-bashing commentators: There is a sickness in this world right now, of passing the buck, pointing the finger, and never accepting responsibility for one's own actions. Full Story

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wow...
February 1, 2010 3:01 pm

very true…

are you happy now?
February 1, 2010 1:56 pm

I see that you wanted to speak out against us (ppl with opinions) and are probably seeing that we have good reasons why we have and why we voice our strong opinions.

I would say that instead of writing an op-ed, since you say you’re a teacher, maybe create a system within your school (and the schools of this conversation) in which parents have a say in what goes on in their schools (which they pay a lot for) and are able to have their wants and needs addressed.

Out of the Dark Ages
February 1, 2010 1:32 pm

There was a time when teachers patched the students. Our parents supported the teachers, and added a patch of their own. Now we know that patching by teachers is an assault and parents hitting children is child abuse. No it’s NOT okay, and parents must never blindly support the teacher, principal or hanhola. If my child is patched I will be the first to tell her or him that the teacher is WRONG. And I will bash the teacher, both to my child and in public. We no longer live in the Dark Ages when teachers can get away with… Read more »

practically
February 1, 2010 1:26 pm

All relationships work in cycles. If you want the hanhola (or anyone else) to hear what you’ve to say and to respect your opinions, you must be willing to behave accordingly to the hanhola. No-one can expect others to suddenly change; it is hopeless. Only through changing yourself for the benefit of others can you hope for others to reciprocate by changing for your benefit. Don’t wait for the world to change; start with yourself! (Don’t start screaming; this does not mean to hold your tongue when an injustice is done. Just approach the hanhola with quiet respect and an… Read more »

interesting
February 1, 2010 1:02 pm

the author of this op-ed seems to be doing just what he/she opens the article with.
he/she writes with a obvious bias toward hanholos.
there many cases where they are wrong but it is allways the parent who has to be quiet about it eventhough the teacher/hanholo is wrong ,and critisizes anyone who disagrees with a decision of a hanholo justified or not.

i grew up with 1 principle
February 1, 2010 12:08 pm

i grew up with 1 principle – Hanhallah, teachers are ALWAYS RIGHT. No matter how wrong they are, to us they are right. Because for a teenager who thinks they know it all its important to have that kabolas ohl, the respect whether you like it or not.

31 is 100% correct
February 1, 2010 11:16 am

teachers are doing this and u expect parents and students not to go against school or to respect them and of course the principal sides with the teachers i know some kids in my family are know in public school because of what teachers did to them before in the years he had good teacher and they respected them so did my parents but when you get a teacher that puts the kid down that child might never want to come back to school and you what the parents to respect the school

Respect needs to be earned
February 1, 2010 11:05 am

How can our children respect the hanholos if they don’t deserve the respect?

When the yeshiva doesn’t treat the students with respect, how can they ever expect to be respected?

Dictators are feared, not respected! my son fears them, because they can mess up his life, deny him shlichus etc. but he has ZERO respect for them.

They need to earn the student’s respect. They have not earned it!

My son will NEVER respect the hanhola. They proved to him that they do not deserve his respect.

And I don’t blame him!!

to #27
February 1, 2010 10:51 am

Yes, but you need to make the keli.
If you want to know which comments were written by Bochrim, just look at the spelling!

Not shocked
February 1, 2010 9:34 am

You get what you give! Teachers, unhala, rabbaiim shluchim etc… Kids do look up to you if you can’t uphold the very same ethics you are teaching and promoting then what do you expect? Good morals ethics and fairness are spoken about ,yet just as with AHAVAS YISROEL it is rarely practiced. I am sorry I was taught to be respectful and be fair . I was shown daily that it meant nothing and that all I got for my pains was to be harrassed by students and teachers who saw that as a weakness and that you weren’t as… Read more »

If there was nothing to complain about...
February 1, 2010 8:42 am

I have been an educator in the Modern Orthodox and Community day school system for 10+ years. If the Chabad Chadorim were well run there would be nothing to complain about. If parents had a system within which to address their issues and concerns, they wouldn’t be voiced at home. My children attend the Chabad Cheder School system, here are some of the issues that need to be addressed, and would help curb the “complaining” 1. A lack of professionally educated or trained staff. 2. The absences of accountably. 3. Weak teacher/administration work relationships. 3. Weak teacher/ parent communication. 4.… Read more »

Both valid
February 1, 2010 8:19 am

Your point is very valid, parents are better off teaching their children to respect the system (however corrupt…and deal with issues behind closed doors) than to disrespect that sytem creating a lack of respect within their children. However, I think that those commentaters who vent and comment (myself included) on the lack of training and accountibily etc. within our community bring about an awareness which has not been previously addressed which will ultimately bring about much needed change. I understand that many teachers put their heart and soul into their work. What is frustrating sometimes is the deficiency in much… Read more »

to #' 4' 6' and 8
February 1, 2010 7:57 am

you say that the person writing is pointing fingers just like he said not to but if you were to just take a look at what he said and STOP BEING SO DEFENSIVE!!!!! YOU WILL REALIZE THAT WHAT THE PERSON WRITES IS 1000% TRUE and as comment # 7 said, that this was always the rebbe’s opinion! and # 8 if it wasn’t the parents as you say AND IT WAS kids or bochurim for that matter, IT ONLY PROVES THIS PERSONS POINT, LEARN TO RESPECT THOSE THAT ARE OLDER AND YEARS SMATER THEN YOU!!! AND LET US HOPE THAT… Read more »

a shlucha
February 1, 2010 7:19 am

I sent my kids to CH for their high school years and they are shocked at the amount of chutzpah the students have to their teachers!!! As a teacher myself I think the problem in this case is the teachers. Any teacher that tolerates ANY amount of Chutzpah is doing a disservice to the student. Every child knows their limits in any circumstance. If they were applying for a job, they wouldnt talk that way. Even though a child is brought up with getting away with Chutzpah we as teachers need to educate these children for their benefit and not… Read more »

dizzy86
February 1, 2010 7:17 am

with shalom theres always a way we can compromise why must we argue and fight with shalom your troubles will never begin

To #10
February 1, 2010 6:22 am

Yeshivas, particularly OT, are places to learn Torah. I say particularly OT because it is a mosad chinuch al taharas ha’kodesh with no secular studies. If someone thinks that yeshiva is a place where their child will learn how to support himself, other than teaching what he has learned, they are wrong. And the Rebbe has said in sichos and letters that bachurim should be learning, not preparing for parnasa. You don’t like that? There are plenty of schools out there that prepare kids for college. Nobody forces you to follow the Rebbe’s program, but the last thing we need… Read more »

it's a yeshiva for crying out loud
February 1, 2010 5:58 am

the only chabad mosdos which traditionally had absolute and complete autonomy was tomchei temimim chabad. unlike merkos or aguch or other independent organizations, the rebbes never intefered with hanholas decisions; neither the rebbe nor the fridiker rebbe. as the well known story goes the one time which the rebbe rashab tried to override the hanholas wishes regarding the yeshiva he himself founded, he was unsuccessful. whoever has ant difficulty understanding why this is the way lubavitcher yeshivahs run, obviously has never learned in a chabad yeshiva or spent their time in yeshiva doing the precise opposite of what they where… Read more »

to # 25
February 1, 2010 5:30 am

as a parent u give reasoning to everytime u say yes or no?!?!?!?!
and kabalas oil comes in when they dont agree??
sorry lady, kabalas oil is when they have no clue to y u’r saying so!
and if thats how u’r bringing up u’r children then dont expect much from them and definitly dont be blaiming anyone esle for the way they grow up…..

whatever
February 1, 2010 4:50 am

i went to school in ch where teachers showed zero respect to the students, abused us and pushed our self esteem into the ground…and yes its still going on today….so talking about pointing fingers, practice what you preach and look around you at the damage the teachers have done to their students….and yes when parents see their kids coming home in tears cuz their child was publicly embarrassed in front of the entire grade, it is only normal for the parent to side with their darling child!

well said
February 1, 2010 4:22 am

brilliant and to the point

there needs to be MUTUAL respect
February 1, 2010 3:09 am

The parents do need to respect the school, but the school needs to respect the family unit. One-sided respect does not work!

kol hakavod
February 1, 2010 3:07 am

a great article. If you don’t wan’t to call it killing your children, that’s fine, as long as you understand that you are spoiling them, and ruining their life – but you’ll never take the blame of “killing” them. WAKE UP!!! That’s exactly what we’re dealing with! If you don’t realize what you’re doing wrong – you’ll never fix it! If you don’t see the severity of the sickness – you won’t take the medication! So a doctor tells you you’re sick, and you brush him off: “I’m not sick, it’s just some pain that’ll go away…” Yes, our system… Read more »

parnosa to 10
February 1, 2010 2:51 am

gezunt parnosa nachas are a present from hashem
we need not concern ourselves with what kind of job we will get it’s up to god
after marriage you look into yourself and go for what appeals to you
don’t blame the yeshivah (from answers in yigros kodesh)

very very true THANKS!
February 1, 2010 2:49 am

look at the kids who grow up to be mentchen – most of them have parents who respect the honhola.

#17 thank you

why the outcry
February 1, 2010 2:02 am

my dear brothers and sisters it is as clear as day as the sun shines today here in brooklyn i as a parent of bh any children know a simple rule i give a explanation to my children when i tell them NO and when i tell them YES so they learn and understand why something should NOT be done and when somethings are permissable. how much chinuch would be taught to our children when teachers hanhulo would explain theor reasoning. we dont have to agree with them we need kabolois oiyl to accept it but their rule should be… Read more »

Well said
February 1, 2010 1:30 am

I was was brought up in a (relatively) small European town.
We as children were taught to have respect to any person older than us. The postman that came to our house to deliver mail, we respected. We would not think of speaking up to an adult.
When i came to this country, i saw that children spoke up to adults, had Chutzpah, and you as an adult cant even tell them off.
The only consolation i have is, one of the Simonim of Moshiach is that the Chutzpa of children will be great.

abusers!!!
February 1, 2010 1:16 am

obviously the rebbe gave them the power and the right to control the bochrims life but that dosent mean they have to take advantage and in every spear moment to declare that this is not allowed and that is not allowed P.S im shore most of the comments wore rightin by bochrim i understand them they are opset i dont understand way is this a chinuch problem.

at the end of the day
February 1, 2010 1:11 am

Everyone can point fingers at yenem, but ur kids are YOUR children. If u want them to grow up mentchlach, and successful, (even financially) YOU can not rely on school, teachers, or counselors. They are added bonuses that come along the way. If we want our kids to live with seder and success WE need to impart it to our children. Our kids are not learning how to live in society where there are bosses to contend with, because at the tender age of * grade a mom tells the kid, ur teacher is dumb,, and teaches her child that… Read more »

to 16
February 1, 2010 1:08 am

I agree!!!

a bochur
February 1, 2010 1:06 am

bochurim dont respect hanholo when they make insane rules with insane enforcments. An example of this is what O.T. announced for the auction, that if you go you will be expelled(not that they would get a knas or get suspended), another example is the rule O.T had at the beginning of last year , that if you have a cellphone you will be expelled. These rules that are not 100% sensible and have ridiculous enforcements are what put off bochurim from hanholo! When the hanholos start trying to relate to the bochurim then there will be no problem, but when… Read more »

SORRY
January 31, 2010 10:16 pm

I unfortunately had to remove my children from Lubavitch School In the school they are in now, you would never hear a parent talk about the negative Points of the school or teacher, why, if you have a problem you can speak to thwe teacher, hanholah or governors It will always be dealt with, it is irrelevant who your family is or where You come from. I once went to a head of department asking why this and this I was told, we are professional mechanchim, we know what wear doing, well they didn’t and messed up Hanholas, mashgichim/mashbeim have… Read more »

Catch 22
January 31, 2010 9:33 pm

You’re supposed to be a role model for your children, not to belittle the teacher in front of them and yet, there are cases upon cases of teachers; who insult students, make hurtful comments, Ignore the students that are not smart/big mouthed/wealthy/Yichus and when you try to speak to the Principal and/or Hanhala you are told that they side with the teacher and your child is obviously in the wrong. Always. So now what? An additional point I would like to make: Its time Hanholos – worldwide – started opening their eyes: Yes, you can make rules and restrictions, yes… Read more »

Yasher Koach!
January 31, 2010 6:55 pm

You said so eloquently what I, in my 30+ years as an educator, have been saying constantly. I’d like to make a few points: 1. Firstly, I was not a “perfect” teacher. I made many mistakes, as all teachers do. They are not perfect, but they try every single day. The reason I gave up teaching is because of the parents. I could write a book on how disgusting parents are, starting with my first PTA in a prestigious school when a mother, herself the daughter of a “ganze Ruv” sat down & told me “I told my daughter you… Read more »

anon
January 31, 2010 6:33 pm

I think anonymous opeds should be banned.

very well but...
January 31, 2010 6:18 pm

Please change “YOU ARE KILLING YOUR CHILDREN” C”V parents do not kill!! they might kill their children’s chinuch, self esteem etc etc….
Thank you for understanding

diz system
January 31, 2010 5:51 pm

its not a good system its systematicly flawed it needs to be re systemized to get our kids thinking right change the system!

Halacha KeBais Shamai in Chinuch
January 31, 2010 5:50 pm

Bais Hillel says praise the bride (regardless); Bais Shamai says “tell it like it is.”

The halacha is usually like Bais Hillel, but in some instances it is according to Bais Shamai.

In chinuch the Rebbe often indicated that the Halacha goes with Bais Shamai. Everyone must recall at least once when he castigated mashpiyim and roshei yeshivah in public before the talmidim.

So doom-speakers beware – the Rebbe has ruled…

Great Article!
January 31, 2010 5:42 pm

I do not teach in a school, but I have been around bochur and I am not too old myself..
This teacher couldn’t have said it better. The children are only as successful as their parents ALLOW them to be.
Kol Hakavod!!

thank you
January 31, 2010 5:34 pm

that was the comment # 84 I was referring to, btw.

You really said it well. Thank you COLlive for emphasizing this, this really makes us look at what we are and what we have become.

education
January 31, 2010 5:28 pm

the issue is that when you finish the system and you aren’t prepared for any jobs because yeshiva doesn’t give you any help in that area so for those who want to work who do you blame? the system and correctly so!

Only praise
January 31, 2010 5:26 pm

Excellent! I was brought up this way, when I complained abuot school my parents always said its the hanhola and you have to respect them even if they are completely wrong. and yes sometime sthey were wrong! but as long as you are the student u have to respect the hanhola and comply. Additionaly parents need to show respect to the hanhola in front of their children. side point: the schools are not responsible for your kids’ chinuch you the parents are responsible!!

Who exactly are you pointing the finger at?
January 31, 2010 5:11 pm

How do you know who wrote the comments,
maybe it was the kids who are upset at Hanholoh, your rant besides of being hypocritical, it is pointless because you don’t know who wrote the comments, and the commentators do not know who wrote the article.

WOW
January 31, 2010 4:53 pm

Very well said. Even when bochrim complained to the Rebbe about hanholo, with a “legitimate” complaint, the Rebbe always sided with hanholo. The famous quote was “if you don’t like what hanholo is doing then say a kapitul tehillim for them”. We must teach our children to respect authority!

There is a sickness...
January 31, 2010 4:44 pm

Just another person pointing the finger…

“…teachers blame the students or their parents …”

Show respect where respect is due...
January 31, 2010 4:37 pm

You make a great point! A point that no one disagrees with. However, parents are waking up to face the sad reality that in most ways our educational system is ailing! The lack of respect displayed in the comments is not based on disrespecting the true educators, but is a outcry of anguish and pain on the part of many suffering parents. Our main mosdos have misled most of the parents in amny ways, each in his own tactics. This led to the opening of new mosdos. It has to be clear that “educational crime” will not be tolerated by… Read more »

sad all around!
January 31, 2010 4:34 pm

so ur throwing the blame on the parents…. i thought everyone has to look at themselves and change things and not look at others!! unfortunately U are doing exactly what U say U shouldnt be doing!!! shame!

Excellent
January 31, 2010 4:34 pm

Thank you.

Sweetheart morah
January 31, 2010 4:33 pm

Valid point. However does not change the fact that hanhola unfortunately acts in a stupid and meaningless fashion that only turns off bochurim.

AD MOSAI!!!!

yasher kochacho
January 31, 2010 4:16 pm

tzum zach

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